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Kemix posted:Death to Rinoa! Also, we obviously name the dog, Dogmeat, because that's aaaalllll he's good for...barring a few 'pet tricks' that get RANDOMLY SELECTED depending on Crisis Level. Which is why I only learned the good ones. ApplesandOranges posted:I could go more into how I dislike that Rinoa doesn't go through some badly needed character growth (more so than any other character in this game), but I'll probably save that for next disc.
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Dec 31, 2014 06:00
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And on that note, flawed as this game is in hindsight, it knew drat well how to push all the right buttons as a story that teenage kids might relate to.Squall posted:Whatever. 17-year-old me posted:drat right bro.
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Dec 31, 2014 06:57
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Mazed posted:And on that note, flawed as this game is in hindsight, it knew drat well how to push all the right buttons as a story that teenage kids might relate to. Yeah. I first played this in 9th grade, and: Silegna posted:I'm gonna confess....when I first played this game, I thought Rinoa was hot. which is definitely one of those buttons. Short skirts, hot-pants, and tight clothes all around for the female cast.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:45
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Akratic Method posted:Yeah. I first played this in 9th grade, and: Yeah. Now though, I find Selphie to be my favorite character. She's adorably insane. I mean I would so agree with her on blowing up the train with a rocket launcher.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:51
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Quistis was always my favorite. I wish she'd gotten a more satisfying arc.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:57
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Having no further information on her besides the fact that she just leapt up and gave someone a hug and her outfit, I like Rinoa. There's not enough hugs in video games.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:59
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It's been said, but the body language in this game is excellent. Square finally had somewhat normal human proportions to work with, and they went to town. Back when this game came out, there was worry that these models would lack the cartoonish appeal they gave characters in earlier games. Personally, even though it hasn't aged well, I think they proved such fears unfounded.
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Dec 31, 2014 08:33
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Kemix posted:Death to Rinoa! Also, we obviously name the dog, Dogmeat, because that's aaaalllll he's good for...barring a few 'pet tricks' that get RANDOMLY SELECTED depending on Crisis Level. Only insofar as the RNG component of crisis level itself. Otherwise she's extremely predictable - she'll use the move corresponding to that crisis level and if she doesn't know it, then she moves down the list to weaker moves until she finds one she does know. The order is, spoiler tagging the ones we haven't seen the magazines for, Wishing Star > Invincible Moon > Angelo Strike > Angelo Cannon, as the default choices for crisis levels 4, 3, 2, and 1 respectively. (Her other four Angelo moves are completely and utterly unrelated and have nothing to do with what happens when you fire off her limit.) There's a semi-common misperception that avoiding Angelo Strike will improve your odds of the two good ones, but it doesn't. In a situation where crisis level and moves-known shenanigans mean you would have gotten Angelo Strike but don't (because you avoided learning it), you'll get Angelo Cannon instead. I suppose you could use this for deliberate multi-targeting of Rinoa's limit rather than having the option of a stronger single-target attack?  Doesn't seem terribly useful to me though.It's arguably slightly more useful to skip her top limit so you get her second-from-top limit all the time at crisis levels 3 and 4, but this is a game where the Laguna and Gilgamesh cards exist, so... yeah. Just learn all of them, really.
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Dec 31, 2014 09:26
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I'm resisting the urge to post some thing like Insert rude word for Angelo's name. So for Rinoa's limits we could get Analstrike, Rectal Cannon and/or Cock Recover Instead I'm going to vote Dogmeat for the little bitch.
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Dec 31, 2014 09:52
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Silegna posted:Yeah. Now though, I find Selphie to be my favorite character. She's adorably insane. I mean I would so agree with her on blowing up the train with a rocket launcher. Honestly, this might be a better plan than Rinoa's. At least it's less stupidly complex and I can't see any big holes in it, just shoot right, dead men cannot stop you.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:39
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As satisfying as a rocket launcher would be the goal is to merely abduct the president, not assassinate him. It'd look bad for everyone involved if the sympathetic rebel group that's a local legend were out all gung-ho spilling blood (also an armed military is currently occupying your city). After the kidnapping peace talks to liberate Timber will begin, because the president will surely negotiate with the terrorists responsible; he'll be at their complete mercy! Yeah, much as I like this game this plan is some baffling combination of over-thought and not well thought-out at all. To wit, Garden turned the Timber Owls down for aid in the past, it's only because Cid went over everyone's head that any of this is happening. And I don't think even the Owls knew what the plan was before they finally got their request.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:57
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Please don't try to rationalise the plot beyond this point in the game. Your head may explode.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:26
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I kind of figured their plan being dumb and over-complicated was the point. They're amateurs with a cause but not much experience or training, in contrast to the mercenaries who are just here to get paid. They're not that great at this as a whole, but I've still seen worse plans. SeeD is just here to make money, so its understandable that they wouldn't raise an objection. The Owls are trying their best but, as even the game has pointed out, their best isn't that great and its a fair cry from their founders.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:42
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ultrafilter posted:Quistis was always my favorite. I wish she'd gotten a more satisfying arc. I noticed this on my last run of FFVIII, where I was playing with a mod to make it harder, Quistis has a lot more character grwoth than you might think. You just need to have her in your party for certain bits. I usually used Selphie and she didn't say poo poo but Quistis gets a ton of extra dialogue. ApplesandOranges posted:I can't completely dislike her though, because I really dig that outfit design. Sure it's impractical combat wise (a cape and shorts?) but from an aesthetics point of view it flows really well. Rinoa's competition include Tifa, Garnet and Yuna, so practicality is hardly an issue. It's just about what looks best and out of those four, I honestly think Rinoa has the best design. I've always loved her look. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 16:26
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Weavered posted:Please don't try to rationalise the plot beyond this point in the game. Honestly, a lot of this game would work perfectly well as a parody JRPG.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:52
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anilEhilated posted:As much as it pains me to admit it, there is a point in this mess: these guy suck at the whole guerilla shtick. Squall and Co. just happen to be equally terrible at being a special operations team. Final Fantasy: Forrest Gump. A bunch of goons who founder around. Some full of angst, others full of beans, chasing girls and hotdogs. Through sheer luck and timing just so happen to change the world in the process.
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Dec 31, 2014 17:38
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Isn't all of this part of the express intent of the main author? A bunch of fuckups flailing about while they try to figure themselves out, let alone figure out what the hell is going on around them, seems to be the order of the day. This is supposed to be about identity and finding your place in the world, which is a painfully awkward process culminating in Blitzball.
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Dec 31, 2014 17:47
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RareAcumen posted:Having no further information on her besides the fact that she just leapt up and gave someone a hug and her outfit, I like Rinoa. I'm with you on this one -- so far she's made Squall visibly uncomfortable multiple times, so she seems all right in my book.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:01
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John Lee posted:
 Couldn't stop my hands from drawing it. It's too bad that the predictable Rinoa-hate has come. I like her all right. She's no Zell or Selphie, but she's not bad. Also I agree with Yokaiy that making Squall uncomfortable is a bonus for Rinoa. It's hilarious whenever Squall is thrown off guard. PS I'm boring and I vote the dog keeps her name.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:06
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Weavered posted:Final Fantasy: Forrest Gump. A bunch of goons who founder around. Some full of angst, others full of beans, chasing girls and hotdogs. Through sheer luck and timing just so happen to change the world in the process. Jesus, Forrest Gump was released in 1994. Twenty years ago.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:12
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You know, if we did as Selphie suggested, and blew up the train, we could've avoided the next boss/segment altogether.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:58
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Rinoa is about a thousand times more tolerable regarding a certain theory which will probably be brought up sometime near the end of the LP. Yes, you know which one I'm talking about.Variant_Eris posted:You know, if we did as Selphie suggested, and blew up the train, we could've avoided the next boss/segment altogether. but where do we get the rocket launcher
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Dec 31, 2014 23:56
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LEGO Genetics posted:but where do we get the rocket launcher
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Jan 1, 2015 00:45
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Every so often, when GF pops up, instead of whatever it stands for here because the gameplay lost me a while ago, I think it's an abbreviation for girlfriend and it makes me smile.
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Jan 1, 2015 00:50
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I've seen a few Rinoa apologists. They brought up a few ideas worth considering - but no proof, sad to say. 1. Supposedly, her spoiled attitude came from the translation team. She was supposed to just be Naive. 2. Why did she dance with Squall at the beginning? One theory is that she was trying to cheer him up after his obviously recent disfigurement. What do you all think? Do those seem likely at all? Keep Angelo's name
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Jan 1, 2015 06:37
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MightyPretenders posted:I've seen a few Rinoa apologists. They brought up a few ideas worth considering - but no proof, sad to say. 1. I read it as naive. I was, y'know, 16. 2. Because she wanted to dance? She was a girl at a dance where people dance. Thus: dancing. I don't understand the hate for Rinoa. Like, she's in no way as terrible a character as Irvine and not as gratingly one-dimensional as Zell or Selphie. While she clearly exists as a plot device, she still has more characterization than Mr. Hot Dogs. All in all I don't really care, but if we're in for a year of bitching about Rinoa, I'm checking out.
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Jan 1, 2015 07:22
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Obviously you do care if you're willing to leave over it. My advice? Don't. You'll still find good stuff here. Just deal with the fact that others have opinions that differ than yours.
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Jan 1, 2015 07:37
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MightyPretenders posted:I've seen a few Rinoa apologists. They brought up a few ideas worth considering - but no proof, sad to say. 1. Speculating over translation might-have-beens is almost as fruitless as wishing Xenogears had a fully-finished disc 2. We got what we got. 2. There's a very good reason why an energetic, extroverted teenager would latch onto a handsome stranger at a dance: She just got dumped. EDIT: And the other reason: Square made the FMV first and had to stick it somewhere! FF13 would later become infamous for this, but surely it wasn't the first time. I don't really hate Rinoa, just wish she were more interesting. The very next game has a love interest that is a complete stereotype in every way, yet is great by virtue of having good chemistry with the hero. You can see this game as a writing team trying hard to find its footing in what they perceive as a new direction that video game storytelling is going, and the awkwardness hurts, just like looking back to one's own teenage years.  But, I'm sure this thread will have Rinoa talk out the gills. Frankly I'm still loving the fresh look that the LP's writing is giving it. Mazed fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 08:34
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It always intrigues me to see the characters that people totally despise when playing Final Fantasy. I must have zombie'd through FF8, because I recall liking Squall, but none of the other characters really register with me. And I'm pretty sure I only remember liking Squall because I liked him in Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia (I was late to the FF8 party). So I see people don't like Rinoa and it doesn't click at all, but then I think of how I feel about Wakka or Cait Sith and I want to see what she does to trigger that.
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Jan 1, 2015 08:47
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honestly it's kinda pointless to talk about Rinoa at this point because the things wrong with her, while kinda-sorta there if you already know how the game finishes, aren't really relevant until later. Probably the simplest non-spoilery way to put it for people wondering why there's such hate would be that Rinoa would have to be an exceptionally good character to pull off what the plot asks of her as we continue the game, and whether you find her likable or not? Very few would consider her exceptionally interesting or well-written.
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Jan 1, 2015 09:51
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Cool Ghost posted:
I think Squall's portrait accidentally got used twice? We should keep Angelo's name. Anyway, Rinoa and these rebels seem pretty alright, if naive, for what look like a bunch of untrained civilians fighting against the biggest(?) military in the world.
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Jan 1, 2015 14:07
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: This is the last time for this kinda thing.
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mauman posted:Obviously you do care if you're willing to leave over it. You misunderstand. I don't personally care about the characters. I just don't find a thread about how everyone hates one of them (and repeats it over and over) to be interesting. Yeah, I'm posting about posting. That said, the conversation so far has been pretty interesting, and I'm finding my opinion on both Squall and Laguna changing from my own playthroughs, where I disliked both of them for being bland. I thought all the side characters, even Zell and Selphie, to be far more compelling than either "lead". I get dislike. I don't get blind hatred, especially in a genre that's pretty loose in characterization beyond archetypes.
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Jan 1, 2015 16:46
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I just think people should let the game and Cool Ghost speak for themselves before launching into all their "why Rinoa is a terrible character" rants, she's barely been introduced and had time to let newcomers form their own opinions on her. I mean yeah, her plan is ridiculous and overly convoluted, but that's all we got from her so far.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:14
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Booky posted:I think Squall's portrait accidentally got used twice? Thanks, I fixed this. I also fixed a typo that nobody pointed out.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:19
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Wild Knight posted:I mean yeah, her plan is ridiculous and overly convoluted, but that's all we got from her so far. Yeah maybe. But in a world where people attach magic to their brains to make their muscles stronger [or whatever the canon reason how GFs work is] I'm willing to overlook a few silly things. Like dogs being weapons as well. Or Zell's Graduation Walk.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:31
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RareAcumen posted:Like dogs being weapons as well. This really makes me wonder about dog breeders now in this world. Are purebred dogs better for this? Is the job treated like a military arms supplier? Are there black market puppies?
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Jan 1, 2015 18:34
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Wild Knight posted:I mean yeah, her plan is ridiculous and overly convoluted, but that's all we got from her so far. At least they HAVE a plan. Granted, we're mercenaries. We aren't supposed to ask questions of our employers. That is kinda in the contracts they take.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:00
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Alkarl posted:This really makes me wonder about dog breeders now in this world. Are purebred dogs better for this? Possibly. Though it's a toss-up on purebred vs mutts that've seen fights. Mutts have got the bonus of experience already and that's an easy fix for health with a few Esunas and a bath. quote:Is the job treated like a military arms supplier? The thought of Final Fantasy Tony Start showing off their newest line of Blitzhounds tearing through the sky like sidewinder missiles is the best Final Fantasy based idea I've ever gotten. quote:Are there black market puppies? Yes. They're like Prinnies, unfortunately. But, thanks to Phoenix Down it's barely a hindrance.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:31
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I'm really enjoying this LP. I haven't played this game since it first came out, and all I really remember is that the plot was utterly baffling in just about every imaginable way, and none of the characters were really all that interesting. This LP, however, is giving me a new way to look at a lot of things, and it's almost enough to make me want to play again and see what 15 years of additional life experience might change in my interpretation of it all. I think I'll just let Cool Ghost do it for me though  . Certainly I'm learning that I was a terrible player way back then, always drawing every new spell upto 100 three times, not really playing the card game past Balamb because I didn't really see a reason, letting the GFs pick their next skill-up because of course the programmers would know what was best for them... yeah I wasn't a very good player at that time.Also voting that Angelo keeps her name.
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Jan 2, 2015 03:28
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I'd like for Angelo to keep her name, I think.
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Jan 2, 2015 03:32
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