kingcom posted:

Literally this:

quote:

Though his complete inability to address my criticism might even be the reason he left the original thread, since he left never to return the same page I posted it the first time

Tollymain posted:

the enormous majority of sa having absolutely nothing to do with tradgames is actually a big smokescreen, there are no real posters outside tgd, just bots

Tollymain posted:

lowtax is actually a fictional persona currently being jointly maintained by rbh and ettin

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

So that's what I've been doing all this time? Dang.

Luke Crane posted:

Vincent Baker designed all those games. He gave all of them permission to use their names instead of his. Vincent designed those games. [...] I give all the credit to Vincent. [...] Oh, right, this is all Vincent's stuff here, being retooled over and over again.

quote:

[27:57] Burning Wheel is a heavy brick of game design… Apocalypse World was designed to be hackable! Fate has the same ethos. Designing for the culture!
[30:15] But… they have captured the audience so well that it stymies design.
[32:30] Apocalypse World and Fate Core raising the bar for fledging game designers, but also creating a paper ceiling.
[39:39] Discussion about the playability and enjoy-ability and good that has come out of Apocalypse Engine and Fate games. Not about whether it is fun to play or not.

Slimnoid posted:

Methinks someone is mad that their game isn't more popular.

Tendales posted:

I don't see why he would be, since Luke Crane goes out of his way to keep his games out of the hands of players.

Slimnoid posted:

I don't really know much about the guy or the games he made, so you'd have to explain.

moths posted:

Luke offers zero digital options, poorly distributed limited print runs, and has only ever "reprinted" one thing ever. (The gold edition hardcover "slightly less convoluted" core book.)

He's the nerd sitting in the corner at the dance making no effort, pining for the day everybody just senses his quality and begs him for games - and he can look down and say "no."

Tendales posted:

Nothing really grogs.txt dramatic, he just avoids digitial versions of his stuff, only does a single tiny print run of most of his stuff, that sort of thing. Like, pick any of his games. Then try to find a way to buy it. Good luck.

Slimnoid posted:

Methinks someone is mad that their game isn't more popular.

FMguru posted:

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Why is the "harem anime is creepy" line from wundergeek underlined in red, as if it represents a particularly damning instance of harassing Zak?

Otisburg posted:

If I were to hazard a guess, because these people are so broken that criticism of the bad, gross Japanese cartoons they enjoy is indistinguishable from personal attacks, because they're of that stripe of weirdo fandom where the media they consume becomes their ~identity.~

MalcolmSheppard posted:

It occurred to me the other day that this obsession with SA from Zak and Tarnowski is textbook privilege. The two of them benefit from literal privileges in other gaming communities. At RPGnet you are forbidden to discuss the things they've done. The RPGsite is run by Tarnowski. Basically, this is the most prominent community where they do not have special privileges, therefore it is out to get them.

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I don't think they realize that being disliked is not the same as being harassed. Being made fun of on a private forum is not harassment. Calling someone's house and threatening their children is.

MalcolmSheppard posted:

It occurred to me the other day that this obsession with SA from Zak and Tarnowski is textbook privilege. The two of them benefit from literal privileges in other gaming communities. At RPGnet you are forbidden to discuss the things they've done. The RPGsite is run by Tarnowski. Basically, this is the most prominent community where they do not have special privileges, therefore it is out to get them.

That's sad. I mean there's the hilarious side effect that over in Tarnowski's forum Desborough keeps snuggling up to them because he recognizes them as ideological fellow travelers because of the way they act, while they recoil in an attempt to guard their reps from GamerGate cooties.

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I don't think they realize that being disliked is not the same as being harassed. Being made fun of on a private forum is not harassment. Calling someone's house and threatening their children is.

Otisburg posted:

Only moreso because they have to actively seek out the criticism. "Someone made fun of me on forums.somethingawful.com. If only there were some way I could avoid seeing these negative things being said at forums.somethingawful.com but it's beamed directly into my brain."

Gazetteer posted:

I think we can probably imply that someone is being disingenuous without needing to also like, imply that online harassment isn't a serious issue that actually hurts people. Because it is, and it does.

Gazetteer posted:

You also kind of posted an image that literally says "Hahahahahahahaha How The gently caress Is Cyber Bullying Real". But okay.

quote:

unc!tim
View profile
More options Oct 20 1982, 6:28 am
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
From: unc!tim
Date: Wed Oct 20 06:28:39 1982
Local: Wed, Oct 20 1982 6:28 am
Subject: AD&D sucks

In a possibly vain attempt to get some discussion on this group, I will now come out of the closet
publicly and say I think that Advanced Dungeons and Dragons is a very poor excuse for a game. Gary Gygax has no conception of how books are actually used in a play situation, and a very poor ability to understand hand-to-hand combat. Further, the magic system is totally counter-intuitive. Finally, the importance of magic items (as well as the ideas of class and level) depersonalizes characters, leading to a "rogue"- type environment. (Oh yes, the description of gods in terms of hit dice, etc., is totally useless to the DM, and the unarmed combat system is an atrocity; sorry to have forgotten these.) The only reason that AD&D is the most popular FRP game around is that it has a major lead on the others--unfortunately, TSR has not used this time to improve the rules, only to lengthen them.

The only game I know of that's worse than AD&D, aside from basic D&D, is Tunnels and Trolls. Both RuneQuest and The Fantasy Trip provide much better alternatives, and I am told that SPI's DragonQuest (now owned by TSR) is hard to learn but very smooth once one learns it. I strongly recommend that any AD&D player buy RuneQuest and play a few games before further glorifying their rather primitive game.

I suppose I should be afraid to sign my name,
Tim Maroney (unc!tim)


rabbit!jj
View profile
More options Oct 20 1982, 12:47 pm
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
From: rabbit!jj
Date: Wed Oct 20 12:47:02 1982
Local: Wed, Oct 20 1982 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: AD&D sucks

Well, who do you think is going argue with you? Not me, and I've only been using ad&d (yes, Gary, it's copyrighted) for about 4 years to administer a huge campaign. The magic rules are ridiculous, the hand-hand combat makes less sense than using a quarterstaff (and a quarterstaff DOESN't help your AC , com on now, I use a staff, and see if I am as easy to hit when I have a staff as when I do not).
The reason that I used ad&d was that it was the only well described system on the market when I started DM'ing.
Face it, d&d was the FIRST system generally out, and it was certainly better than anything else (i.e. nothing). Since it couldn't benefit from experience, it has lots of problems.
Hopefully, a revision will come out someday that UPDATES ad&d to the current level of complexity and sophistication, and provide a system that is a bit more playable in the long run.
As for the "organization" of the books, I couldn't agree more.
Take a look at DragonQuest (tm-BANTAM BOOKS!!!!!!) to see something that is better organized. DQ's rights, except for movie rights, are now owned by Bantam, who is distributing it with their normal line to lots of bookstores, which should increase the distribution of the game
quite a bit. For some strange reason, TSR still owns the movie rights, whatever they amount to. Apparantly SPI had already made a deal with Bantam before TSR called in their loan, and TSR had to stick with it, and


More options Oct 21 1982, 12:48 am
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
From: cbosgd!bsw
Date: Thu Oct 21 00:48:30 1982
Local: Thurs, Oct 21 1982 12:48 am
Subject: Re: AD&D sucks

Ok,so AD&D sucks poo poo. But what makes the others so much better ?
What are the prices of better frp systems ? are they totally different
or what (ie. are there levels ? ac,hp,etc.?) ?

I'm almost not afraid to sign my name,

Ben Walls
...cbosgd!bsw


watmath!bstempleton
View profile
More options Oct 22 1982, 12:12 am
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
From: watmath!bstempleton
Date: Fri Oct 22 00:12:07 1982
Local: Fri, Oct 22 1982 12:12 am
Subject: Re: AD&D sucks

For all who say AD&D sucks, I will have to agree that Gygax is far from perfect. The following should be remembered - D&D is just a game, and is not supposed to be realistic. If it were realistic, you would get chopped in half and spill real blood. Quite often you want to play a non-realistic scheme. The combat system is one that can be understood by novices and this is good for the game.

Secondly, just about everybody plays d&d quite differently, so nobody really pays that much attention to the tsr rules. They are a handy thing to base something on, and something that somebody from accross the continent can play with. If anybody in my dungeon quotes gygax, I
just say: Oh, so that's how he plays it. Interesting.

I have played with many many combat and magic systems, and find that many people, in their desire to do better, often do worse.


physics:els
View profile
More options Oct 22 1982, 2:11 am
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
From: Physics:els
Date: Fri Oct 22 02:11:51 1982
Local: Fri, Oct 22 1982 5:11 am
Subject: Re: AD&D sucks

I learned my D&D before the other thing was around. I like to think that I play the way the game was meant to be played, by using a few tables and a copy of Greyhawk as a LOOSE guideline, arbitrarily remolding things to suit my whims. This puts the DM in a much more omnipotent role. Combat is much more realistic if the DM randomly makes a character slip and fall under the swords of 15 berserkers, etc. Magic may also be made less silly. Besides, I enjoy the look of despair on the faces of AD&Ders when I throw them a curve!

els[Eric Strobel]
pur-ee!pur-phy!els

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

I think maybe I've been reading these threads too long, because what really jumps out for me there is the bang-path email addresses. Everything else is just more grog.

Otisburg posted:

I am sorry that I posted a hyperbolic tweet from a rapping man on the something awful dot com forums.