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I wouldn't push it, unless you are currently drastically underpaid. They already know what you're currently making and they doubled it, so any attempt to push it up further can definitely come across the wrong way. Vacation days and things like that are definitely the kind of thing you can negotiate on.
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Dec 24, 2014 21:54
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A public to private transition would expect s large bump in pay. Another offer would be best, but if you know what private salaries normally you could use that.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:19
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some_weird_kid posted:I'm likely to be entering a negotiation for a new position very shortly, but it's a little unusual in that they've already offered more than I expected. I broke the cardinal rule and provided my current compensation, but I have the benefit of being in a somewhat prestigious position (and being very happy there) and them having initially approached me. I declined to interview on two occasions, but ultimately decided to go in for an interview, and had a very good experience. They've offered what is basically double my current compensation (even knowing what I was getting), and that's an offer that I obviously would be happy accepting. With that said, they still seem eager to please, and I hate to think that I'm leaving money on the table by just accepting the initial offer. But obviously I don't want to overplay my hand, since it's an offer that I'd be thrilled with as-is. Is it worth trying to grab another $5,000 in base salary? How do I reasonably justify that when my true reasoning is just "Well you're giving me so much already, what's an extra $5k?" They proactively offered to see if they could increase my vacation days, since that's one of the benefits of my current position, so they're getting back to me on that without me even having brought it up. Step 1: Re-read thread. Step 2: Pay attention to the part that says "Get other offers" Step 3: Pay attention to the part that says "Don't overplay your hand." Any questions that aren't already answered in this thread?
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Dec 28, 2014 23:37
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Step 1: Re-read thread. Apologies for not reading all 21 pages, though I did read the first three and jump to several later pages as well looking for a similar situation. I'm not in a position to get other offers, since every company I chat with in regulated industry requires separate provisions from our ethics staff and would create quite a headache with my current position, but I am conscious of not overplaying my hand and even mentioned it in my post! Fortunately the two previous responses were very helpful.
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Dec 29, 2014 04:40
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some_weird_kid posted:Apologies for not reading all 21 pages, though I did read the first three and jump to several later pages as well looking for a similar situation. I'm not in a position to get other offers, since every company I chat with in regulated industry requires separate provisions from our ethics staff and would create quite a headache with my current position, but I am conscious of not overplaying my hand and even mentioned it in my post! Fortunately the two previous responses were very helpful. If that is genuinely the case, you have to understand your current position doesn't have much robustness; you don't have many options to pursue and can't easily find another similar opportunity if you scare off this potential employer by getting aggressive negotiating. Kalenn spends a lot of time underscoring BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Alternative) and I agree that should always be the primary thing you keep in mind. If you can't secure other offers, your BATNA is staying in your present position. You can accept an offer right now with lots of time off and literally a 100% increase in your compensation, or you can try to get a marginal increase on top of that at the risk that you get 0% increase because this employer pulls their offer. They came to you, and the offer is certainly generous. In your position, being unable to get other options lined up, I would take it without pushing for more.
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Dec 29, 2014 15:19
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How do I go about respectfully asking for as much time as possible to review an offer? I've finished interviewing for two different companies, and I believe I'll be getting an offer from my second choice much sooner than a potential offer from the first. I'd like to ask the second choice for as much time as I can get to review the offer without having to tell them they're not my first choice.
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Jan 6, 2015 16:23
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Mary loving Poppins posted:How do I go about respectfully asking for as much time as possible to review an offer? I've finished interviewing for two different companies, and I believe I'll be getting an offer from my second choice much sooner than a potential offer from the first. I'd like to ask the second choice for as much time as I can get to review the offer without having to tell them they're not my first choice. It's not disrespectful to tell them that you are expecting to hear from another company and that you will need time to evaluate both offers. This doesn't tell them that they're your second choice. Also they may play the ultimatum game, especially if they are hiring for a single position, and tell you to give them an answer by some date. I think it's generally better to let these ultimatum dates pass with a polite note stating that you are still not prepared to make a decision to accept the offer when they roll around. They might get snippy and burn the bridge, in which case you just saw how dealing with this company day to day might be. If they don't burn the bridge, you can always reach out after you hear from the other company and let them know that if they would accept your services you'd be happy to work with them. Stay polite, withhold information that isn't beneficial to share, and don't close any doors yourself.
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Jan 6, 2015 19:24
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Thanks for the feedback. I received the offer, they asked for a response in 2 days, to which I asked for 3 and they agreed. I immediately emailed the other company and informed them of my need to respond in 3 days and asked if they had an update on when I might know. I also called late in the afternoon explaining the same in a voicemail but haven't heard back yet. Alright, here's another question. The offer I did receive has a sizable employer contribution to a state pension fund, what appears to be a mandatory employee contribution to the pension, but no contribution to the 403(b). Maybe I'm uneducated here, but I don't want anything to do with a pension. I'd much rather manage my own retirement account. What are the chances of getting both the employer and employee contribution out of the pension and into the 403(b)?
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Jan 7, 2015 03:37
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From what's been said in this thread, is it fair to say that someone entering into a career pretty much fresh from college is not going to have any negotiating room? I've been an intern at a company for about a year and a half, and know that I have a billet intended for me that's going to be finalized within the next month. I don't have an offer letter at this point, so I don't know exactly what I'll be making, but since I'm in the company currently, I do know that with the position level and payscales I will be looking at a range where the bottom is a little under twice what I make now. I also benefit from time off, holidays, annual bonuses based on the company's performance, decent healthcare and what looks like decent retirement benefits. I also enjoy a relatively short commute for the area, and enjoy my coworkers. Honestly, it feels like it will be a great deal even if I come in at the base pay ($50k~). That said, based on glassdoor, I'm looking at about 10k less than most similar positions in the area (though they require a longer commute that also includes increased traffic and tolls if you want to maintain sanity). I'm not really worried about making tons of money at this point in my life, but I'm concerned that staying at this company long-term (on account of its attractive retirement benefits) means being stuck at below-market pay for the duration of my career. My understanding, especially in light of this thread, is that most significant raises are going to come as a result of bouncing between companies. Because of this, I was considering attempting to negotiate whatever offer is presented to help if I stay there long-term. I know my coworkers recommended my being hired, and I have my degree, which at this company is a requirement for the next level position, but that's about it for reasons I should be above base. Do I have a leg to stand on, or should I take whatever's offered and just be open to moving on in the future if I have an issue with pay?
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Jan 8, 2015 03:38
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You should almost always negotiate and if you've been an intern for a year and a half I think you have a pretty argument that you shouldn't come in at the bottom of the pay scale. If you want more leverage however as mentioned numerous times in this thread you need to be able to walk away which normally means you already have a job or you have another offer.
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Jan 8, 2015 04:26
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Senturion posted:From what's been said in this thread, is it fair to say that someone entering into a career pretty much fresh from college is not going to have any negotiating room? Ninja edit: Glassdoor is poo poo. Don't get too wrapped up on what it says one way or the other.
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Jan 8, 2015 04:33
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Senturion posted:From what's been said in this thread, is it fair to say that someone entering into a career pretty much fresh from college is not going to have any negotiating room? I didn't negotiate my first job out of grad school and I regret it, don't do what I did. Further, you have experience at the company, doing the job they want you to do, that merits more than base new guy pay, because that pay is for people who don't know the job as well as you do. Finally, just as much as the company is a known quantity to you, you are a known quantity to them and that also has value. Clearly, I can't offer advice on the negotiating part, but I can say that you shouldn't start at the bare minimum for the position. e;fb that was fast swenblack!
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Jan 8, 2015 04:37
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Thanks for the thoughts all, I'll go ahead and send out some applications and see what I get back.swenblack posted:Ninja edit: Glassdoor is poo poo. Don't get too wrapped up on what it says one way or the other.
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Jan 8, 2015 04:48
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Senturion posted:Thanks for the thoughts all, I'll go ahead and send out some applications and see what I get back. I would characterize sites like glass door as a reference for the high goalpost. I can't remember the source but there's research I recall reading that suggests contributors tend to be biased towards people at the top end of their pay scales. That said, if my memory is failing me and someone has a conflicting or more specific reference I'd defer to them.
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Jan 8, 2015 06:50
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Senturion posted:Thanks for the thoughts all, I'll go ahead and send out some applications and see what I get back. I agree with everyone else, always negotiate. I got into my first job way below market, and now am at the higher end of pay scales, but it took significant amounts of aggression and confidence to get there. You can always correct for previous low salaries but you still might end up foregoing literally years of tens of thousands of dollars of income before you get there.
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Jan 8, 2015 15:53
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Mary loving Poppins posted:Thanks for the feedback. I received the offer, they asked for a response in 2 days, to which I asked for 3 and they agreed. I immediately emailed the other company and informed them of my need to respond in 3 days and asked if they had an update on when I might know. I also called late in the afternoon explaining the same in a voicemail but haven't heard back yet. Some state pension funds exist in place of social security. You might want to check that. What is the primary concern around the pension fund? I would say that your odds of getting the employer contribution in to a 403(b) are zero.
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Jan 8, 2015 22:54
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To follow up from my earlier post, I had my meeting today and got more than I was expecting. I asked for 30% more than I currently make and got it, which I'm amazingly happy with.
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Jan 8, 2015 23:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Some state pension funds exist in place of social security. You might want to check that. Mostly I was just nervous about the vesting period and the opportunity cost relative to a 401(k) employer match I could easily get in the private sector.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:31
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Lady Gaza posted:To follow up from my earlier post, I had my meeting today and got more than I was expecting. I asked for 30% more than I currently make and got it, which I'm amazingly happy with. Congratulations! Sounds like being a known quantity was valuable to them, too 
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Jan 9, 2015 20:35
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Congratulations! Sounds like being a known quantity was valuable to them, too Thanks! Yes I think so too, also they were really keen to fill the position so that helped. Plus my new boss is quite direct, and appreciated me being bold about what I wanted.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:58
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Is glassdoor the best way to go? I'm a recent masters graduate in kind of a niche field. And glass door doesn't really know how to handle it well and I get a huge range of values. The firm I'm applying to asked for a brief cover letter, resume, and portfolio. In the cover letter they want to know my "salary requirements". I really, really, like this company for a lot of reasons, so I don't want to scare them off by going too high, but I have read the first few pages of the thread and understand that undershooting can cost a lot. Should I put down a rough (very rough) guess of what I think this position should pay? Or should I respond with a concrete number? Dwight Eisenhower posted:Step 1: Re-read thread. This is especially important, I have no leverage because I have no other job offers. I think I'm just going to ask for less starting.
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Jan 10, 2015 19:10
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You should be able to get a decent guess of what that specific firm will pay using glassdoor for the specific position. Regardless I would recommend that you put down a number that is slightly higher than what you'd be happy with. If you're not happy with your salary then you're pretty much setting yourself up to leave.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:04
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Salary is negotiable based on base pay, bonus pay, and benefits package. You sound good and the ball is in their hands.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:05
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spwrozek posted:Salary is negotiable based on base pay, bonus pay, and benefits package.
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Jan 11, 2015 01:52
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:I really, really, like this company for a lot of reasons, so I don't want to scare them off by going too high This is a thought process which will prohibit you from getting a good salary in the offer. So long as you have your hopes and dreams pinned on one company you will end up screwed and will end up making less than you otherwise would. No amount of preparation, legwork, or character acting will save you so long as you have this thought process. "I want to work for this specific employer" and "I want to get paid really well" are as mutually incompatible as "I want to have this cake in a nice display stand so everyone can see it" and "I want to eat this cake" If you want to get paid well, you have to let go of the idea of working for any specific employer, and vice versa. JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:This is especially important, I have no leverage because I have no other job offers. I think I'm just going to ask for less starting. Did you sit around waiting for your Master's degree to land in your lap? No, you went out and worked for it. The same goes for other job offers, if you want to have negotiating leverage, you and you alone have to create the situation which will enable that leverage. That includes your attitude, the previous work you and you alone have done in securing other job offers, and your willingness to walk away from the negotiating table to take other opportunities.
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Jan 12, 2015 15:09
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In negotiations over job title is it better to be "head of chocolate teapot making" or "director of chocolate teapot making"? I assume all else being equal chief teapot officer is the best, but is there anything else I'm not thinking of?
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Jan 24, 2015 09:06
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KernelSlanders posted:In negotiations over job title is it better to be "head of chocolate teapot making" or "director of chocolate teapot making"? I assume all else being equal chief teapot officer is the best, but is there anything else I'm not thinking of? Director, but only because in my industry I have the impression that "Head of" titles are given to people who whine and bitch about not having a good enough title whereas director titles are earned. It's personal bias probably but hey, that's what everybody's opinions are 
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Jan 24, 2015 16:02
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Director in my experience. It usually goes like this where I have been and places I work with directly. Take out layers for small companies. Individual contributor Supervisor Manager Director (sometimes a couple layers) VP SVP C-level CEO
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Jan 24, 2015 17:08
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I hosed up big time with negotiations at my job- I start in two weeks, and I intended to stay there at least a few years. Is there any way to recover in the future? Back story- I mentioned an offer from another company for what I thought at the time was a huge sun of money. They made me a salary offer 5k higher, with stock and sign on bonuses equal to 10k+ in addition, but everything I'm seeing online indicates that their normal range for salary is 10-40k more than that.
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Jan 24, 2015 18:28
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Serious Cephalopod posted:I hosed up big time with negotiations at my job- I start in two weeks, and I intended to stay there at least a few years. Is there any way to recover in the future? I don't think you hosed up; you got an offer 5k higher than comparable offers. If you got more offers, you might have found pricing info that would have made you more aggressive, but you still outdid other offers on the table. That's good. Do well so they want to keep you, then get other offers better than your present salary in writing. If you aren't chomping at the bit to leave, don't accept them, but do use them at annual performance reviews as a means of making an argument about what you should be getting paid. The only way you end up stuck with a poor salary is if you mentally accept you are stuck with a poor salary.
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Jan 25, 2015 03:39
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I agree. Go in and kick rear end. Then just tell your manager, look, I kick rear end. Get a big raise. IF you find a better job for way more money then be ready to move on.
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Jan 25, 2015 06:57
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Yeah, thanks for that. I figured I already knew some of the answer, but getting other offers later down the line is something I'll keep in mind.
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Jan 25, 2015 07:26
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Update! I said something right- I got 3k more a year- not a huge amount, but nice. I'll be chronicling my achievements at this job as well, so that I have plenty of reasons for a raise in the future. I will also compile offers. Hopefully in a year I'll be better at negotiating. I'll try to practice by roll playing with a friend.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:45
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Serious Cephalopod posted:Update! I said something right- I got 3k more a year- not a huge amount, but nice. I'll be chronicling my achievements at this job as well, so that I have plenty of reasons for a raise in the future. I will also compile offers. Hopefully in a year I'll be better at negotiating. I'll try to practice by roll playing with a friend. What'd you say? Impressive to get a raise after you already accept an offer.
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Jan 27, 2015 00:13
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Reading through most of the posts here we're on the right track, I would just like a sanity check: My wife has been offered a new position at a slight step up in title (basically going from a state-level to a national-level position), similar financial structure with both organizations (private fully funded nonprofit), but we'd be moving from the Deep South to New York City if she takes it. She grew up in Manhattan and we've both lived in actual big cities (Chicago, Dallas) before, so we know what's what as far as urban life goes. However just by relocating up there we're looking at between a 200% and 350% increase in COL across the board from rent etc. based on what online calculators tell us. Even going with the cheapest borough cost-of-living calculator, the current offer would result in what is functionally a 15% pay cut for her. Mainly due to the fact that it's cheap as hell to live down here. How much truck does that carry for renegotiating a salary offer? Obviously the employer knows the market but frankly in order to consider she'd be going back to them with like 140% of what they offered initially. It just seems a little daunting and she'd prefer not to come out the gate and blow her chances by being a jerk about it. I'm pretty sure the answer is "if they want her, they'll pay for her" because she is eminently qualified and ridiculously good at her job. When I think about it, the offer letter itself was a bit fishy, it came with a salary quote but no benefits information, just some boilerplate about "participation in benefits programs the company occasionally uses". I haven't had to seek or acquire a new job for like 8 years, is that normal?? Gunshow Poophole fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 02:45
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She should inquire about the benefits. I don't think all offers always include detailed descriptions on that, so it's not too fishy. I would also recommend going back for more money, but I think what it comes down to is the market rate. NYC is a hell of a lot more expensive than the deep south, but non-profits don't necessarily pay well enough to make up for that. The whole NYC cost of living vs salary thing is ridiculous if you don't work in a high-paying field. It definitely sounds like your wife is more qualified and she has some leverage she should use, but you might not end up with 140% of the original offer. Worth a try though.
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Jan 27, 2015 03:10
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What do you mean by "in order to consider"? Does that mean in order for her to accept the job she'd need them to move their offer up by 40%? If that is the case then ask for it. Consider though that they might take your offer as the upper limit on what you'd accept and try to drag you lower. By this I mean if you want 40% more, you may have to ask for 50%. I've asked for 35% more and it hasn't ended the conversation. If you are really far apart they may issue a final offer/ultimatum and you can decide from there. E: Forgot. I've received offers that included rather nebulous statements about benefits. I replied with an email asking for the "clarifications necessary to consider the offer in total". It wasn't a big deal.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:15
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Yes that's what we've budgeted to make it work: I work from home in my current position so I can take this job anywhere, downside is I'll be pulling a Dallas suburbs salary wherever we go until I make a career change (...into nonprofit work myself). Thanks for at least a bit of support, talking to all my friends who live up there right now is not particularly encouraging. However she is still gainfully employed and paid handsomely down here so, we're coming at the problem from the best possible situation. Can't imagine how stressful this would be throwing bills coming due and not having a paycheck into the mix.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:55
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whitey delenda est posted:Reading through most of the posts here we're on the right track, I would just like a sanity check: We've said it repeatedly in this thread, but by the time a company makes an offer, they've already decided that you (your wife) is the perfect candidate for the job out of the hundreds of people that apply. They're significantly invested in closing the deal. You're absolutely right when you say "if they want her, they'll pay for her" Don't let your insecurity get to you. It may be hard to believe, but it's just as big of a deal for them to get her as it is for you guys to get the job.
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Jan 27, 2015 05:13
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Xandu posted:What'd you say? Impressive to get a raise after you already accept an offer. I said that I was concerned mostly work parity with my coworkers, sounded a little disappointed with the numbers, and also that the later start date would mess with my finances. Is only later by a week, but the medical plan won't kick in until a whole month later.
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Jan 27, 2015 11:58
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