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I have had a lasting fear of wasps ever since six-year-old me got stung by a tarantula hawk (the motherfucker had built its nest in our front door I was just trying to go inside and it stung me, twice  ) and so I acquire a grenade launcher as early on as I can just for blowing up cazadores as quickly as possible
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Jan 11, 2015 05:50
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My current playthrough is the first where I've taken on the legion at Nipton instead of just letting them walk away. That was about as satisfying a moment in gaming as I've ever had.
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Jan 11, 2015 12:45
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I love killing them in Nipton, but it also leads to Legion Assassins coming after you basically right away. I did it on my first Hardcore playthrough and on the road North to Novac I ran into a squad of assassins, then the scripted Legion attack on the caravan, then another squad of assassins who ran up without warning while I was trying to fight off a bunch of Vipers. I had to reload so many times because poor little ED-E kept dying 
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Jan 11, 2015 15:55
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2house2fly posted:I love killing them in Nipton, but it also leads to Legion Assassins coming after you basically right away. I did it on my first Hardcore playthrough and on the road North to Novac I ran into a squad of assassins, then the scripted Legion attack on the caravan, then another squad of assassins who ran up without warning while I was trying to fight off a bunch of Vipers. I had to reload so many times because poor little ED-E kept dying If you just want Enhanced Sensors, you can recruit Ed-E, then have him wait in Primm or whatever. You get the bonus no matter how far away he is.
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Jan 11, 2015 19:32
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I've thought about letting the legion walk away at Nipton just to see what happens, but every time I feel compelled to kill them all. They just walk away so slowly!
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Jan 12, 2015 01:42
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I've thought about letting the legion walk away at Nipton just to see what happens, but every time I feel compelled to kill them all. They just walk away so slowly! Eh, it doesn't change much. He just ends up in Ceaser's tent and gives you missions if you go the legion route.
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Jan 12, 2015 05:18
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I always let Vulpes live until the unavoidable Legion camp massacre because I just love his voice. It's not as gravely or inciting as the other characters', it's just so unusual that you can't help but listen and wonder how somebody gets their voice to sound like that.
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Jan 12, 2015 06:20
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I honestly don't understand how people can actually let feelings and morality keep them from experiencing so many parts of the game, especially with how many times I've heard people in this thread say they've tried to side with the Legion but just couldn't condone it and switched sides. Like, I get that they're the big bad evil guys and all, but when I play a game, I generally suspend any gut reactions or moral judgement in favor of variety and exploration. I guess there's nothing wrong with acting on your instinct the first time through, but to be unable to remove yourself from those impressions in subsequent playthroughs just seems strange to me. Or maybe I just play this game too much.
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Jan 12, 2015 07:53
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I've thought about letting the legion walk away at Nipton just to see what happens, but every time I feel compelled to kill them all. They just walk away so slowly! 1. 6 guys firing in tandem can deal with pretty much any random scorpion / cazadores / whatever. 2. They just walk away so slowly!
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Jan 12, 2015 08:08
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Fuzz1138 posted:I honestly don't understand how people can actually let feelings and morality keep them from experiencing so many parts of the game, especially with how many times I've heard people in this thread say they've tried to side with the Legion but just couldn't condone it and switched sides. I guess it might just be that the Legion are convincingly monstrous enough that the player gets a little chemical kick of righteous feeling for choosing to blast them all away every time, which basically overrides the positive feeling of finding a new location or completing a new questline. For much the same reason, I can never bring myself to torment Dak'kon or Morte in PS:T, no matter how many times I play it - it just feels too *satisfying* to do the right thing. And I just don't get jaded with doing it. It may lead to a bit of very occasional performative piety online ("I don't know how you can ever side with those MONSTERS. What about their civic policy?"), but it's a tribute to the quality of the storytelling, and in particular that fantastic Nipton introduction.
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Jan 12, 2015 08:34
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grobbo posted:I guess it might just be that the Legion are convincingly monstrous enough that the player gets a little chemical kick of righteous feeling for choosing to blast them all away every time, which basically overrides the positive feeling of finding a new location or completing a new questline. Honestly, the way I do it is via other playthroughs. It becomes pretty prevalent that Caesar's legion does short term evil with longterm good payouts. Everyone in there territory is fed, sheltered, and protected at minimum. Whereas NCR lets raiders freely roam in many parts of their territory. And siding with House is the dumbest thing if you're not 100% selfish.
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Jan 12, 2015 09:21
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Fuzz1138 posted:I honestly don't understand how people can actually let feelings and morality keep them from experiencing so many parts of the game, especially with how many times I've heard people in this thread say they've tried to side with the Legion but just couldn't condone it and switched sides. I managed to sufficiently rationalise everything to get myself in the mindset to side with the legion, for a while I was actually convinced they had poo poo right and I'm not entirely convinced they don't sure, they commit rape, murder, aggression, and slavery en masse, but as Caesar explains, correctly, doing poo poo like that is what allowed civilization to build itself to the point we're currently at in present day, and there's decent, if horrific, argument that it's necessary in order to build a functional state again that can protect everyone in the future
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Jan 12, 2015 09:28
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Maybe it's because I had not played Fallout 3 before this and so I was unfamiliar with what you can be capable of even at early levels, but the first time I walked into Nipton, my reaction was "poo poo, I'm really outnumbered, it would probably be pretty stupid not to play along with these guys." Not so much "this injustice shall not stand, I must kill you all now."TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I managed to sufficiently rationalise everything to get myself in the mindset to side with the legion, for a while I was actually convinced they had poo poo right and I'm not entirely convinced they don't It's the same to me with the people who say "well House is clearly a delusional totalitarian dictator so I never side with him" or "the Boomers are murderers so I always just kill them." Maybe it's just me, but the four endings are part of what makes this game so replayable. I'm sure it's natural to have a favorite faction to side with, but I generally just cycle through them each time I get inspired to play the game again. I don't really get how you can feel so strongly against a character or group in the game that you just absolutely cannot side with them. Fuzz1138 fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 09:33
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Some forum discussion on another site got really mad at me for defending Caesar's Legion as a viable option to ally with in-character. In a wasteland filled with a number of savage tribes that will shoot you on sight, it's no wonder that people willingly assimilate into the Legion for the safety of numbers and organization. Hell, they even let people cross in and out of their borders for trade. I'm not condoning slavery, rape, etc., but I can definitely see why a man living in the wasteland would choose to submit to the Legion. gently caress if I know why a woman would but Caesar never seemed to care that much about my female courier saving his rear end.
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Jan 12, 2015 09:33
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Nasgate posted:Honestly, the way I do it is via other playthroughs. It becomes pretty prevalent that Caesar's legion does short term evil with longterm good payouts. Everyone in there territory is fed, sheltered, and protected at minimum. Whereas NCR lets raiders freely roam in many parts of their territory. And siding with House is the dumbest thing if you're not 100% selfish. I consider NCR the more selfish choice. You're literally just helping brahmin barons take over the Mojave. House at least believes in Mojave as an independent area and won't poo poo on his own people for no reason. Legion while cruel to their enemies at least do not tolerate raiders in their territory. I think the Van Graffs put it the best: NCR is the enemy you can bribe to tolerate you, the legion won't be bribed. If you are scum you will get hunted down by the legion. Where as NCR will gladly take money from scum and let them do whatever want. Basically what I'm saying is that legions are lawful good paladins with rape and torture part of their law. Iretep fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 10:08
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Fuzz1138 posted:Maybe it's because I had not played Fallout 3 before this and so I was unfamiliar with what you can be capable of even at early levels, but the first time I walked into Nipton, my reaction was "poo poo, I'm really outnumbered, it would probably be pretty stupid not to play along with these guys." Not so much "this injustice shall not stand, I must kill you all now." For me the transition between Fallout 3 and NV was brutal because of how different Damage Resistance and Damage Threshold are. In 3, an enemy with 10 DR just takes an extra bullet or two to kill with an early game gun. In NV an enemy with 10 DT literally takes 1-2 damage per bullet with an early game gun. Those Legionaries in Nipton were the first enemies I met that outclassed my damage completely, since on my first playthrough I kept that varmint rifle way longer than I should have.
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Jan 12, 2015 10:20
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Fuzz1138 posted:Maybe it's because I had not played Fallout 3 before this and so I was unfamiliar with what you can be capable of even at early levels, but the first time I walked into Nipton, my reaction was "poo poo, I'm really outnumbered, it would probably be pretty stupid not to play along with these guys." Not so much "this injustice shall not stand, I must kill you all now." oh I got what you were saying and wasn't trying to disagree, I was just saying, "related to that, here is my experience about vidoe game" 
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Jan 12, 2015 10:31
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Malpais Legate posted:Some forum discussion on another site got really mad at me for defending Caesar's Legion as a viable option to ally with in-character. In a wasteland filled with a number of savage tribes that will shoot you on sight, it's no wonder that people willingly assimilate into the Legion for the safety of numbers and organization. Hell, they even let people cross in and out of their borders for trade. yeah exactly the measures the Legion's tribes resort to are unconscionable by our standards primarily because we don't have to worry about whether not resorting to them will result in our inevitable extinction/starvation/enslavement also dialogue with Caesar (it might have been cut dialogue I don't remember) implies or states that the sex slavery is only really a thing in the "border" settlements and military camps, and that women enjoy much greater status in the "civilised" regions controlled by Caesar Iretep posted:I consider NCR the more selfish choice. You're literally just helping brahmin barons take over the Mojave. House at least believes in Mojave as an independent area and won't poo poo on his own people for no reason. Legion while cruel to their enemies at least do not tolerate raiders in their territory. I think the Van Graffs put it the best: NCR is the enemy you can bribe to tolerate you, the legion won't be bribed. If you are scum you will get hunted down by the legion. Where as NCR will gladly take money from scum and let them do whatever want. House is neoliberal to the max, his idea of security literally is limited to "don't shoot up the public areas of the strip and don't come in if you're poor". He doesn't give a poo poo about anyone except himself and his doggone snowglobes. The NCR puts its own personnel in danger to to feed the poor. Granted they turn away people who aren't NCR citizens but that's part and parcel of the package, you get the benefits of being part of the state only if you're part of the state. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 10:32
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oh man is it time for the thread to argue about House vs the NC--TacticalUrbanHomo posted:sure, they commit rape, murder, aggression, and slavery en masse, but as Caesar explains, correctly, doing poo poo like that is what allowed civilization to build itself to the point we're currently at in present day, and there's decent, if horrific, argument that it's necessary in order to build a functional state again that can protect everyone in the future 
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Jan 12, 2015 10:56
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House the best always choose House.
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Jan 12, 2015 11:01
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:House is neoliberal to the max, his idea of security literally is limited to "don't shoot up the public areas of the strip and don't come in if you're poor". He doesn't give a poo poo about anyone except himself and his doggone snowglobes. The NCR puts its own personnel in danger to to feed the poor. Granted they turn away people who aren't NCR citizens but that's part and parcel of the package, you get the benefits of being part of the state only if you're part of the state. House recovered, what 10 years before the game started? He has no way to give out food yet. He even explains it himself: making new vegas a tourist trap is a way to leech off money off of NCR so he can become strong. You give him an army finally to protect the Mojave as you play the game. In the House ending he finally starts to expand his protection to freeside too because he can afford to. He has plans, he just can't act on them because he's a new player in the wasteland. NCR can pretend and afford to play the good guys because they have over 200 years of history and economy to act like it. Of course I don't consider taking over the Mojave as another NCR territory as a good act. The Mojave people don't want to be part of the NCR themselves. Hell, some of them have a good reason to HATE the NCR.
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Jan 12, 2015 11:01
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Iretep posted:House recovered, what 10 years before the game started? He has no way to give out food yet. He even explains it himself: making new vegas a tourist trap is a way to leech off money off of NCR so he can become strong. You give him an army finally to protect the Mojave as you play the game. In the House ending he finally starts to expand his protection to freeside too because he can afford to. He has plans, he just can't act on them because he's a new player in the wasteland. More like a hundred and ten years. Okay, I'll be a little more exact. A hundred and thirty three years. He just sat on his rear end until the NCR arrived ready to set up shop in completely abandoned Vegas. Which is why I never give House the time of day. He had over a century with all the resources he could need to kickstart a civilization, longer than the NCR existed, and he didn't do poo poo until he found someone he could leach off of. As for the "Boo hoo, NCR is evils, the people don't want them" bullshit, the closest thing the region had to a government actually had talks with the NCR. You know that butt ugly giant handshake statue? That was a tribute to the official arrangements. The NCR actually made (reasonably, the NCR still has its share of assholes) above board deals to protect the locals and give them a voice in the government in exchange for the right to expand. If the NCR wasn't in town, the whole of Vegas would be Legion territory. Which, you know, would be bad. I know a few people seem unable or unwilling to understand that a misogynistic cult of personality with an average life expectancy south of forty is less good for the general populace than a generally okay-ish Western style democracy, so let me summarize human history: Not having anesthesia loving sucks. Paying taxes (although it also is less than fun times) sucks considerably less.
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Jan 12, 2015 11:41
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House really plays to my vanity as a lovely person. When you first meet him, the man says it perfectly: "You and I? We don't have to dream that we're important. We ARE." He's not the best for the Mojave, by far. I think the Followers of the Apocalypse are the only ones with humanity's best interests at heart, and he throws them out of Freeside at his first chance. But the man rewards you and treats you like royalty for delivering the Mojave to him on a silver platter. If you're a "gently caress you, got mine" person, House is obviously the best choice. Ruling New Vegas would be nice, but to never want for anything or worry at all? Get out of the way, Yes Man, the House Always Wins.
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Jan 12, 2015 12:06
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chiasaur11 posted:More like a hundred and ten years. chiasaur11 posted:As for the "Boo hoo, NCR is evils, the people don't want them" bullshit, the closest thing the region had to a government actually had talks with the NCR. You know that butt ugly giant handshake statue? That was a tribute to the official arrangements. chiasaur11 posted:The NCR actually made (reasonably, the NCR still has its share of assholes) above board deals to protect the locals and give them a voice in the government in exchange for the right to expand. If the NCR wasn't in town, the whole of Vegas would be Legion territory.
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Jan 12, 2015 12:27
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Theta Zero posted:I always let Vulpes live until the unavoidable Legion camp massacre because I just love his voice. It's not as gravely or inciting as the other characters', it's just so unusual that you can't help but listen and wonder how somebody gets their voice to sound like that. The first time I encountered Vulpes I let him have his talk and then walk away. Then I reloaded a save and shot him in the head.
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Jan 12, 2015 12:45
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Fuzz1138 posted:I honestly don't understand how people can actually let feelings and morality keep them from experiencing so many parts of the game, especially with how many times I've heard people in this thread say they've tried to side with the Legion but just couldn't condone it and switched sides. When I play games like this, with multiple sides to the story, I tend to decide on my personal favorite 'optimal' way to play the game and focus on that. This doesn't mean I'm always a goody two-shoes, it depends on the game. I try to think of it like, if I was in the game what would I do? That's how I get 'immersed' or whatever. I love making gay little moral choices in games.
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Jan 12, 2015 12:53
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Malpais Legate posted:House really plays to my vanity as a lovely person. When you first meet him, the man says it perfectly: "You and I? We don't have to dream that we're important. We ARE."
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Jan 12, 2015 13:46
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The NCR forces the Followers out of Vegas, though.
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Jan 12, 2015 16:39
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Byzantine posted:The NCR forces the Followers out of Vegas, though. It's hard to discuss endings, as every faction has so many of them. In one ending the NCR forces the followers out, but if you convinced the Followers to aid the NCR they let them stay.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:41
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I managed to sufficiently rationalise everything to get myself in the mindset to side with the legion, for a while I was actually convinced they had poo poo right and I'm not entirely convinced they don't Necessary...how exactly? Because it seems there's this giant democracy that is starting to build up some amazing infrastructure and is stable enough that a defeat in the Mojave doesn't seriously impact them...that wasn't built on rape and slavery. Kind of hard to argue that it's necessary when the NCR exists. The NCR has it's problems, but seriously what the hell. Taxes, corruption, and being inefficient don't exactly make them unforgivably evil! That's the kind of thing RAPE CAMPS are for. Sure the main reason for their being in the Mojave is the Dam, but they at least try for peaceful solutions and negotiations when no other faction in the Mojave would even consider it. Like the ending slides for the NCR shows that it does some good -and- bad things...but the ending slides for the Legion mostly consist of them slaughtering and enslaving everyone. The NCR has long term prospects, most of it's problems are things that can be made better(or worse) over time and it represents the best hope for bringing actual civilization and infrastructure back to the US. The Legion is a society built on rape and slavery that is doomed to fall apart back into Tribes when Caesar inevitably dies, the only possible band-aid to that is the player becoming his successor and they would still have to be acknowledged by the rest of the Legions territories which I doubt would happen. House can have his own little kingdom, but that's not exactly going to help the rest of the US is it? (Also, once again, the NCR DID try to hand out food and water to literally everyone in Freeside. They sent the envoy to the King to set all this up and Pacer murdered him and turned the NCR off the idea.)
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Jan 12, 2015 17:46
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Caesar's problem is that he's both too cartoonishly evil for "tough guy that gets stuff done" and too obviously on the verge of collapse for "evil guy that's our only hope."
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Jan 12, 2015 17:55
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StashAugustine posted:Caesar's problem is that he's both too cartoonishly evil for "tough guy that gets stuff done" and too obviously on the verge of collapse for "evil guy that's our only hope."
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Jan 12, 2015 18:05
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If you think about what the NCR has to have accomplished at home to make its excursion into the Mojave possible, I think it makes their flaws less significant. They can mass-produce weapons and armor, the NCR army is a viable means of advancement for women (and even a handful of ghouls,) and their economy is successful enough to allow for en masse tourism. While Hildern at Camp McCarran is a total douche, the projects he's interested in suggest that the NCR is also considering some of the problems that its own growth presents. They haven't secured the Mojave very well yet, but many of the raiders are underwritten by their enemies, and I find it difficult to believe that the insecurity carries over into their home territories.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:16
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I think that Caesar's Legion would be a lot less intriguing if it was based more on actual Roman culture. I find it interesting how much of a hodge podge the whole thing is - with uniforms that were at some point raided from an untouched stadium/warehouse, bits of scrap metal for weapons and an ideological aversion to technology, as well as some very nomadic/tribal elements to its society, that don't seem very Roman at all but have served the Legion very well in its current situation.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:39
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Ah so we're having the NCR vs Legion circlejerk again.  While the NCR may have their own problems, they are saints compared to the Legion.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:51
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I guess you could argue about house or the legion or whatever being viable and acceptable steps in the rebuilding process or the lesser evil or whatever except since the other option is a fully functioning successful republic that's been around for over a hundred years and doesn't have any rape camps that's actually total nonsense haha.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:56
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Look man, according to that one creepy guy rape camps were totally a vital part of human history! That means Caeser was right or something
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Jan 12, 2015 19:02
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Big Iron
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Jan 12, 2015 19:04
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this whole thing even started with people shrieking about profligates, so it's 100% accurate!!
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Jan 12, 2015 19:06
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Update on my all VATS run that nobody but me cares about: with cranked agility and jet and rebound, it's really fun running into a group of guys with a combat shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot and blowing off everybody's head in rapid succession. It does get a little frustrating with the many VATS bugs, but I'm enjoying it enough and it's a completely different style of play. It actually requires me to level up my weapon skills to be able to hit anything at a distance. So now I have to actually choose between wanting to be able to hit something from more than point blank range or other skills.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:10
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