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Keven. Just. Keven posted:I guess you could argue about house or the legion or whatever being viable and acceptable steps in the rebuilding process or the lesser evil or whatever except since the other option is a fully functioning successful republic that's been around for over a hundred years and doesn't have any rape camps that's actually total nonsense haha. House doesn't have rape camps and is cool
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Jan 12, 2015 19:14
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Veeta posted:I think that Caesar's Legion would be a lot less intriguing if it was based more on actual Roman culture. I can't really talk about endings (still on Honest Hearts, though I'm not sure if there's much else to do apart from finish the final quests and find the last survivalist cache), but I feel like doing this would open a whole different can of worms... namely that neo-classicism is essentially what the Nazis tried to do  . That element's probably already there, but it would probably be even stranger if they tried to ram the Legion peg into a Rome-shaped hole. I must issue a thank you to someone on these forums, who informed me that you can drink water by holding the button down. Honest Hearts has been okay, it looks pretty and it's inspired me to look at some lovely pictures of real life Zion. A bit disappointing that there seem to be a number of locations with nothing really interesting about them, like The Aerie.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:15
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Byzantine posted:House doesn't have rape camps and is cool While I disagree with house as a person and his ideas for the future of the wastes, I fully support his decision to have sex with robots.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:45
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:While I disagree with house as a person and his ideas for the future of the wastes, I fully support his decision to have sex with robots. I used to think that robosexuals were disgusting. Then I met Fisto.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:46
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The only true inheritors to the Mojave are you and Father Elijah and an inescapable poison cloud. And 600 lbs. of gold.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:51
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Another thing that I wish was in the game, but not because of probably of time and money was that you could never debate Caesar philosophies if you a high enough intelligence/speech. Also I wish the Legion endings made you heir to the empire drat it 
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Jan 12, 2015 19:59
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Garrand posted:Update on my all VATS run that nobody but me cares about : with cranked agility and jet and rebound, it's really fun running into a group of guys with a combat shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot and blowing off everybody's head in rapid succession. It does get a little frustrating with the many VATS bugs, but I'm enjoying it enough and it's a completely different style of play. It actually requires me to level up my weapon skills to be able to hit anything at a distance. So now I have to actually choose between wanting to be able to hit something from more than point blank range or other skills. So you use up your AP, then find some cover / dodge around until it's fully or partially recharged, then start over? I never really worried about AP recharge but it seems like it would come up in your case. Is AP cost affecting your weapon choice?
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Jan 12, 2015 20:08
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Twobirds posted:So you use up your AP, then find some cover / dodge around until it's fully or partially recharged, then start over? I never really worried about AP recharge but it seems like it would come up in your case. Is AP cost affecting your weapon choice? Pretty much. I've become far more reliant on drugs in this playthrough as well, since med-x will help me last long enough to recharge the AP and rebound speeds it up. Also using Steady cranks up your chance to hit to 95% from almost all distances regardless of weapons skill, combined with the Anti-Material rifle is pretty hilarious. Playing it like a FPS like I used to do made the game ridiculously easy even on Very Hard, don't know why I didn't try this earlier. I don't think the fact that I'm VATSing everything has affected my weapon selection so much as my need to choose between guns skills and other skills. I have found that, with some of the quirks of VATS, getting more shots in before you're out of AP gets more consistent kills than something where you just get a shot or two. It's frustrating to unload everything with a high powered rifle only to have the bullet shoot past / not fire at all / hit some random material that shouldn't really be there and then have to wait.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:20
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Doesn't VATS have a bug on shotgun damage rolls? I forget exactly what it was doing but I think against low DT you do higher damage than free aiming because it adds the pellets together but only subtracts DT once. Or whatever. Anyway shotguns are really good.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:30
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Not that I really had any inclination to side with the NCR after House introduced himself to me on my first playthrough, there was a significant character that really sold me on disliking the NCR. Thomas Hildern, at McCarran. He has this really loving arrogant line: "Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have." Like, at first it's "hahahaha I know right?" and then it dawns on you that he's trying to justify endangering nearly everyone in the Mojave to mutant spores from Vault 22. It's not that I based my decision on one character, but he really didn't help the case by being so moustache-twirlingly evil about it.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:47
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Antares posted:Doesn't VATS have a bug on shotgun damage rolls? I forget exactly what it was doing but I think against low DT you do higher damage than free aiming because it adds the pellets together but only subtracts DT once. Or whatever. Anyway shotguns are really good. You actually have that backwards, I think. According to the fallout wiki: quote:Using shotguns in V.A.T.S. can sometimes do minimal damage. Shotguns' damage uses a Spread Radius and thus, a certain amount of damage for each single part of the spread, for example: 8x6 - each part of the spread does 8 damage, but the damage is multiplied by the 6 parts of the spread, in V.A.T.S., sometimes it will cancel the spread and only do the base damage - in comparison to the example above, instead of doing 8x6 worth of damage, it will only do 8 points of damage, making a shotgun in V.A.T.S. a gamble. And I've definitely had that happen, which again is why I'm using the combat shotgun for it's rapid attack. Also, I am playing TTW which is why I have the combat shotgun at the moment until I get my hands on the Riot Shotgun. Garrand fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 21:19
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If you look at it from a pragmatic view. If you're a man, Caesars is the best choice. Because NCR has difficulty protecting loving Brahmin barons in the middle of their territory, as well as major trade routes. House can't protect anyone outside of new vegas. There are no raiders or bandits inside Legions territory. This doesn't condone the Legions actions, but if I lived in this lovely world I'd choose safety. That said, brotherhood would be my first choice in that regard. And honestly, I don't think the slavery aspect is as big a deal since the NCR is full of impoverished wage-slaves. Sometimes living in worse conditions than Legion slaves. And often considered less valuable by their government. A government controlled by the rich, not wise or good intentioned people, but people who lack morality given the right profit margins. The difference between raiders/powder gangers and the NCR is size and capital. Their size allows them to better hide the scummy poo poo they do. And their capital allows them to capture slaves(citizens) through peaceable means. I think the best part of New Vegas is that it gets us to compare NCR, which is extremely similar to modern western governments, particularly the US. With the Legion, which is a bunch of uneducated tribals under a rapier version of an ancient civilization. Which points a finger that shows how we really haven't come very far at all compared to ancient civilizations. I usually go NCR personally though. Their problems are fixable, legion's are not.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:55
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Legion is gonna fall apart within months of Caesar croaking and everybody knows it.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:07
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I also don't know if I'd like to live in an empire where the second in command will punish failure by beating the person who hosed up to death. Yeah the Legion territory is safe but the way it gets that way is horrifying. It's also precarious as all get out. New Vegas actually did a pretty decent job of showing just how much life would loving suck in a post-Apocalyptic wasteland. You don't have very many options and all them suck.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:19
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You know, when I brought up my point, I was really hoping it wouldn't come back to this faction argument again. I don't know whether to blame myself or just take it as a natural cycle of the thread.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:36
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Fuzz1138 posted:You know, when I brought up my point, I was really hoping it wouldn't come back to this faction argument again. I don't know whether to blame myself or just take it as a natural cycle of the thread. Now the stranger started talking made it plain to folks around Was an Arizona ranger wouldn't be too long in town He came here to take an outlaw back alive or maybe dead And he said it didn't matter he was after Texas Red After Texas Red
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Jan 12, 2015 22:44
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Nasgate posted:If you look at it from a pragmatic view. If you're a man, Caesars is the best choice. Because NCR has difficulty protecting loving Brahmin barons in the middle of their territory, as well as major trade routes. House can't protect anyone outside of new vegas. There are no raiders or bandits inside Legions territory. Do you mean Heck Gunderson? Because New Vegas isn't NCR territory; they've recently moved in, but House retains control. That's why the NCR only has an embassy and troopers go to The Strip as a vacation, rather than actually being stationed in place of Securitrons. Heck's son can get kidnapped because House lets the casino families/tribes mostly manage themselves as long as he gets his cut but still maintains final control over them, so the NCR interfering would mean interfering in House's territory. And they don't want to rock the boat while still looking like they want to play ball because it means losing access to the dam, and they simply don't have the resources to steamroll House and his Securitrons while simultaneously fighting the Legion and keeping everything back home running. The Legion looks really good to people who don't really have a good idea of what life under it is like; if you sort through Ropekid's posts in this thread, he reveals a good deal of information about how the Legion should be viewed. They keep the bandits out, but that's essentially the limit to the good things of Legion control. If you're part of a tribe and thus not established and "civilized" enough to escape manipulation, they'll take everyone useful to turn into soldiers and kill everyone else. Women are beyond second-class citizens and are essentially little more than baby factories, with rape encouraged as a means to enforce control and produce more Legionnaires. Legion society lacks much of the actual infrastructure of the real Roman Empire and is little more than a slowly expanding warrior party; Edward Sallow wants to capture Vegas because he literally has to recreate Julius Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon in order to build a civilization. This is why they continue to operate as a brutal army that kills soldiers at random (through decimation) to punish failure and uses slave labor to keep everything else going. And with all that, the Legion is so shaky that Caesar's death will destroy it. Legion culture is based around Caesar being the son of Mars and having divine right to rule over them, and it requires a strong central leader to provide guidance and a figurehead to worship via a cult of personality. It's actual canon that with Caesar's death, squabblers for the throne and rule by Lanius (a man who knows essentially nothing but warfare) will result in the Legion collapsing. Even if the Legion wins at Hoover Dam with the help of the Courier, a Lanius-controlled Legion simply slaughters its way through while a Caesar-controlled Legion enslaves much of it. Something Sawyer said about the Legion -- if I remember correctly -- is that he didn't necessarily mean for the NCR and Legion to both be equally gray and have solid reasons for choosing one over the other. The Legion is pretty firmly the "evil choice" and was never meant to be at all preferable to the NCR, House, or an independent rule by the Courier.
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Jan 12, 2015 23:02
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achillesforever6 posted:Another thing that I wish was in the game, but not because of probably of time and money was that you could never debate Caesar philosophies if you a high enough intelligence/speech. The way I see it is that Caesar is probably very much an absent emperor to much of his empire at this point. He's been going around conquering and conquering and conquering, and meanwhile his home territories have been managed by entirely different people who at this point are going to be pretty entrenched. Once Caesar dies, no matter who gets put in charge, I have to imagine that the Legion home territories just aren't going to accept anyone in charge of them without personally being conquered. It'd be like descending into tribalism again, except now the tribes are much much bigger and well armed and with organized armies. The Legion territories may be safe from bandits while Caesar is around, but I can't imagine them being safe for ANYONE after he dies.
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Jan 12, 2015 23:39
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I wonder, if any more West/South-West FO games ever get made, will we see the remnants of Caesar's Legion? Will there ever be a canon resolution to the Hoover drat crisis and what happens to the Mojave in the future?
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Jan 13, 2015 00:02
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Seashell Salesman posted:I wonder, if any more West/South-West FO games ever get made, will we see the remnants of Caesar's Legion? Will there ever be a canon resolution to the Hoover drat crisis and what happens to the Mojave in the future? Seeing as there's been a lot of choices in previous games that had many wildly varying outcomes that were considered canon in New Vegas, yes probably.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:07
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If they could make it more interesting than FO3 I wouldn't mind the next game being The Institute. I kind of want a base story of slavery of the androids where you can either crush their abolitionist rebellion, help free them, or help them overthrow the humans and use the humans as slaves or something. It sounds dumb and basic, but I just like the idea of them enslaving the slavers as a moral choice.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:08
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I would love to see a dense, populated city to be the location of a Fallout game, with a focus on a bunch of interiors to explore rather than a large exterior like in New Vegas and 3. Things like familiar suburban streets that slowly transition into big multi-story buildings as you go farther into the city. They did something similar to that in 3 and that was the high point of exploring the overworld, even if it looked kind of samey.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:20
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Malpais Legate posted:Not that I really had any inclination to side with the NCR after House introduced himself to me on my first playthrough, there was a significant character that really sold me on disliking the NCR. Thomas Hildern, at McCarran. He has this really loving arrogant line: "Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have." Like, at first it's "hahahaha I know right?" and then it dawns on you that he's trying to justify endangering nearly everyone in the Mojave to mutant spores from Vault 22. to be fair he's trying to make it so that food can be grown extremely quickly anywhere in a hellish nightmare wasteland with little arable land so he's not entirely misguided it's not like he has any idea that there are plant mutant zombies there, just that nobody comes back from it which could mean a number of things like: super mutants are killing everyone, raiders are killing everyone, radiation is killing everyone, random hosed up vault experiments not related to the plants are killing everyone just a whole lot of possibilities.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:27
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Fereydun posted:to be fair he's trying to make it so that food can be grown extremely quickly anywhere in a hellish nightmare wasteland with little arable land so he's not entirely misguided he's also entirely unmoved when you tell him about said plant zombies, leading me to believe he is, in fact, a colossal douche.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:46
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Caesar is terrible. I'm a Romanophile who geeked out over the pronunciation of "Ave, true to Caesar," but he's just...bad. The NCR is a decadent oligarchic republic. You could say the same about the modern US, but America isn't about to be overrun by a mob of slaves hurling javelins. So it's not just decadent and oligarchic, but also incredibly fragile and only capable of maintaining itself if Great Men defend it, i.e., House and/or the Courier. Notably, they want at least one of those Great Men dead. House claims to be a disinterested (albeit ruthless) technocrat. In reality he can be petty, vindictive, and tyrannical, e.g. the what happens to the Kings, or Primm if you put them under NCR protection. Me, I'm idolized wherever I go. Also, I possess I rare genetic abnormality which allows me, a friend, and a dog to annihilate entire military bases. By far the best option for the region is to make the Courier King of the Mojave, subject to certain constitutional restrictions, which I will cheerfully grant because after all the other pointless bullshit I've done for you people why not? Tacky-Ass Rococco fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 01:12
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Excelzior posted:he's also entirely unmoved when you tell him about said plant zombies, leading me to believe he is, in fact, a colossal douche. Yeah that's when you realize he's a complete dickbag. His response to the hideous mutants wrecking everything near the place is "pfft, whatever...so people are dying? It's worth it because SCIENCE!" Like he doesn't even care that he was literally sending people to their deaths and that more people would die and/or turn into plant monsters if he pursued the crap. Yeah he kind of had a point in "well we really should be figuring out new ways to not starve in this horrible world we live in" but his callous indifference to the horrible, awful things the mutant spores caused kind of did out him as a huge meanie..
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Jan 13, 2015 01:18
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Jack of Hearts posted:Me, I'm idolized wherever I go. Also, I possess I rare genetic abnormality which allows me, a friend, and a dog to annihilate entire military bases. By far the best option for the region is to make the Courier King of the Mojave, subject to certain constitutional restrictions, which I will cheerfully grant because after all the other pointless bullshit I've done for you people why not? the downside is that you consume abnormally large amounts of drugs, food and drink in exchange for the ability to become an immortal benevolent killing machine also i forgot that guy was like "pfft SCIENCE!" after you finish the quest he's totally right imo, science rules and turning the mojave into a hellish jungle plant wasteland just opens up even more gameplay setting options!
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Jan 13, 2015 01:27
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Excelzior posted:he's also entirely unmoved when you tell him about said plant zombies, leading me to believe he is, in fact, a colossal douche. There's a reason I like to bring Arcade along when dealing with Hildern, because the bit of conversation that comes up covers it pretty well. Hildern only sees the numbers, not the truth of the situation. While he is trying to avert a serious problem (population growth not sustainable by current methods of farming in the wasteland) he keeps sending people to their death because the solution he's pursuing isn't a solution at all, unless you consider killing off the population by a fungal zombie apocalypse to be a solution. He's more interested in advancing his own career than he is in understanding what the gently caress he's actually doing.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:46
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Shotguns are garbage in FNV unless you take that knockback perk and that -AR perk in which case they become a close range fight trivializer which is also garbage.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:04
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Zeron posted:Necessary...how exactly? Because it seems there's this giant democracy that is starting to build up some amazing infrastructure and is stable enough that a defeat in the Mojave doesn't seriously impact them...that wasn't built on rape and slavery. Kind of hard to argue that it's necessary when the NCR exists. The NCR has the unique benefit of being built from the remnants of previous civilisation, IE the vaults. Caesar's Legion started from scratch. Not entirely, of course, Caesar himself had the benefit of a Follower education, and the tribes forming the Legion have guns and other tools that they've salvaged from the old world but it's nothing compared to the GECKs and the vaults.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:21
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Sheep-Goats posted:Shotguns are garbage in FNV unless you take that knockback perk and that -AR perk in which case they become a close range fight trivializer which is also garbage. Agree, they're really garbage unless you take the perk that makes them really good.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:25
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Fuzz1138 posted:I honestly don't understand how people can actually let feelings and morality keep them from experiencing so many parts of the game, especially with how many times I've heard people in this thread say they've tried to side with the Legion but just couldn't condone it and switched sides. I experimented with the "beat the game while killing everybody you see" method, I made a really ugly Jason Voorhees character with 10 strength and 1 intelligence and killed every person I met, except for No-Bark. Couldn't get past the Ranger resort hotel without breaking my rule of killing everybody I saw, so I gave up.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:55
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I think the NCR/Legion debate reveals something somewhat interesting about video game/genre fiction narrative in and of itself. Namely, that its often quite poor. Without logical contortions for the sake of being contrarian or moral bankruptcy, its pretty clear that the Legion is far worse for the average person than the NCR. But, most video games narrative pits angels against demons. The NCR are no angels, and the Legion are by any reasonable use of the word "evil" (but not elemental, from the gates of hell evil) so video games see a lot more ambiguity than there actually is. I sometimes wonder if participants in this debate expect the NCR to be a Lawful Good, Pure and Noble entity rather than, well, a state. Something like the Brotherhood of Steel as featured in Fallout 3. I would really like to see what life is like for the citizenry in the core NCR territories, like Shady Sands. In Fallout 2, it seemed pretty nice. One of my favorite aspects of Fallout: New Vegas is that the setting is somewhat removed from the apocalypse, and we're actually seeing how society has begun to rebuild. I think that's a lot more interesting than ruins and raiders. Sadly, I think that Obsidian has said they don't like how far removed New Vegas was from the apocalypse, and would probably feature a much weaker NCR to revert back to the more chaotic feel of the first Fallout game.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:15
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Sheep-Goats posted:Shotguns are garbage in FNV unless you take that knockback perk and that -AR perk in which case they become a close range fight trivializer which is also garbage. they're crap at certain difficulty tiers for sure, but like, the lever-action shotgun? gold against fuckin junkies
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Jan 13, 2015 04:29
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Fereydun posted:the downside is that you consume abnormally large amounts of drugs, food and drink in exchange for the ability to become an immortal benevolent killing machine Ulysses mentions that the tunnelers are inevitably going to move into the Mojave, and they're strong enough to take down Deathclaws. I think a tunneler VS plant mutant war would be hysterical. Mojave, mo problems, right?
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Jan 13, 2015 05:02
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There should have been an option in the Independent Path to instate The King as King of New Vegas. Dude was a decent fellow who just wanted people to get along.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:03
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 Malpais Legate posted:Ulysses mentions that the tunnelers are inevitably going to move into the Mojave, and they're strong enough to take down Deathclaws. I think a tunneler VS plant mutant war would be hysterical. Tremors n: Post-Nuclear If Ulysses is a reliable source, anyway. If.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:16
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Well, he's a learned, if really wordy and pretentious man. I don't doubt him. But you do casually gun down the Tunneler Queen in Lonesome Road. So who knows, we might have stemmed the rocky tide on accident.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:19
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Arcsquad12 posted:There should have been an option in the Independent Path to instate The King as King of New Vegas. Dude was a decent fellow who just wanted people to get along. I was dissapointed about this as well. I at least wanted him under my thumb to use the gang as my personal taskforce.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:27
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The King struck me as a kind community leader, definitely, but NOT someone with a vision for New Vegas or the Mojave 
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Jan 13, 2015 05:33
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