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Hey. Hey, guys. Kids these days.quote:The old woman leaned over the table a bit and lowered her voice. “You’ve come to rid us of the vermin?” Anyway, Richard is a huge idiot who, even after learning Kahlan was alive, still hasn't slept after his Death March to Ayindril. So he's lost in the city, alone, and then nearly gets murdered by the Imperial Order. But wait! The IO is working with D'Haran exiles, recall, and THEY also want him for their own murderin' needs. So a fight breaks out and D'Hara gets home turf advantage. (Well... homier turf.) BUT WAIT quote:All the people around averted their eyes, wanting nothing to do with the trouble at hand. As the two huge D’Harans dragged Richard from the center of the street, people scattered out of the way as if they had eyes in the back of their heads. Over the noise of the city, his muffled, angry cries were lost. Try as he might, he couldn’t get a hand near a weapon. His boots skimmed across the snow, his feet working in vain for purchase. So yeah, that thing where every loving D'Haran can sense the Lord Rahl comes into play and they decided to haul his rear end out of the fire. Cara is basically going to keep Richard from getting his dumb rear end killed so many times.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:12
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:
People keep saying she's the best character but this sounds like the actions of the worst.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:25
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Stallion Cabana posted:People keep saying she's the best character but this sounds like the actions of the worst. I mean not letting richard die is a shame and all that but I'm sure I remember cara calling him out on being a giant idiot on more than one occasion so its not a total loss.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:29
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Cara basically has no patience for Richard's poo poo. She will be one of the only people to speak truth to power and go "Lord Rahl, you are being a tremendous jackass." In fact, let's break this down: Zedd is going to never be open with him because "wizard poo poo", Kahlan is all over him and has no real desire to stand up to him, Nathan is a giant manchild so those conversations are fun but not really helpful, and the SotL are kinda "eh" on him at best. Cara, to compare, goes "I will keep your rear end alive whether you like it or not and whether I have to beat you half to death to do it, because like it or not, you're the man in charge of keeping us all alive." claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 05:31
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Stallion Cabana posted:People keep saying she's the best character but this sounds like the actions of the worst. Look, there are some assumptions we're going to have to just allow about certain
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Jan 13, 2015 05:32
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Cara basically has no patience for Richard's poo poo. She will be one of the only people to speak truth to power and go "Lord Rahl, you are being a tremendous jackass." Also she is a person who has gone through a life of torture, suffering, evil etc and still has better moral values than dick roll.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:32
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For all their horrendous backstory the Mord-Sith characters are probably some of the better ones in the series simply because they have zero tolerance for bullshit and never let Richard really shove them around too much. Also it's B and the being in question is amazingly dumb. Edit: The idea of Richard doing stuff for the Mord-Sith to try and "cleanse" their hosed up past does come up in a book, though, and it's pretty cheesy. Baller Ina fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 06:28
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For all the people wondering how this series can possibly go down hill from ground level, you see that Welfare Queen rant up there? It's maybe a page? Are you ready for a whole book of that? Because it's coming. Not this book, no, not yet, but soon. Soon.
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Jan 13, 2015 06:41
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TheSmilingJackal posted:Soon.
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Jan 13, 2015 06:42
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The shortest book in this series is like 800+ pages. Nothing is soon. Yet all too quickly each new horror will be upon us, and we will feel trapped interminably in amber at its arrival, until at last we are released into the hungry maw of the next rape scene or polemic.
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Jan 13, 2015 06:54
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Plague of Hats posted:The shortest book in this series is like 800+ pages. Nothing is soon. Actually, uh, most of them from here on out are 600 pages or so. We're already about 10% through Blood of the Fold.
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Jan 13, 2015 06:57
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Actually, uh, most of them from here on out are 600 pages or so. We're already about 10% through Blood of the Fold. Is that paper back brick format? I could've sworn they felt pretty drat hefty, though not WoT chunky.
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Jan 13, 2015 07:01
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I have most of these in hardcover. (And some transcription is being aided by a friend's ebooks.) Yeah, the paperbacks are probably worse, but those aren't factoring into my counts.
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Jan 13, 2015 07:04
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This is important and we must do a study.
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Jan 13, 2015 07:09
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Plague of Hats posted:This is important and we must do a study. Wizard's First Rule 820 Stone of Tears 979 Blood of the Fold 623 Temple of the Winds 822 Soul of the Fire 788 Faith of the Fallen 785 The Pillars of Creation 725 Naked Empire 736 Chainfire 748 Phantom 673 Confessor 757
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Jan 13, 2015 10:53
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And the inevitable comparison: The Eye of the World 702 The Great Hunt 599 The Dragon Reborn 545 The Shadow Rising 891 The Fires of Heaven 684 Lord of Chaos 699 A Crown of Swords 635 The Path of Daggers 591 Winter's Heart 533 Crossroads of Twilight 681 Knife of Dreams 761 The Gathering Storm 766 Towers of Midnight 843 A Memory of Light 912 Goodkind; always more, always worse.
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Jan 13, 2015 11:07
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Goodkind just never got the memo that having that many pages means you actually have to have some plot progression on those pages. Curiously, this made me realize that Brandon Sanderson's doorstopper series is even longer. My softcovers of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are 1,000 and about 1,080 pages respectively. e: And Wise Man's Fear is 995 pages. Geez. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 11:43
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Goodkind just never got the memo that having that many pages means you actually have to have some plot progression on those pages. The difference being that stuff actually happens on pretty much every page of a Sanderson doorstopper that isn't one of the gorgeous sketch illustration pages.
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Jan 13, 2015 15:42
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TheSmilingJackal posted:Soon. This is the real stupidly named monster, isn't it?
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Jan 13, 2015 15:45
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Bieeardo posted:This is the real stupidly named monster, isn't it? The unfolding of this story is definitely one of the monsters, yes.
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Jan 13, 2015 15:46
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So this means that we're on the single best book of the series, from what I can tell? It's the shortest and it has Cara, who apparently is a good character?
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Jan 13, 2015 17:01
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Mors Rattus posted:So this means that we're on the single best book of the series, from what I can tell? In some ways, yes. On the other hand, basically nothing notable plotwise happens (no lie, I'm pretty sure the most important event in this book is richard having to throw away that invisibility cloak because it's EEEEVIL) and this is where the series really starts going hard into the objectivist poo poo.
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Jan 13, 2015 17:08
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You know I could have sworn I read some other fantasy series with a cloak that was optical camo+EVIIIIIL. Terry Brooks Shannara series maybe? Or that other, more generic fantasy writer that I can't recall the name of right now. Terry Terry Terry
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Jan 13, 2015 19:34
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Pimpmust posted:You know I could have sworn I read some other fantasy series with a cloak that was optical camo+EVIIIIIL. Terry Brooks Shannara series maybe? Or that other, more generic fantasy writer that I can't recall the name of right now. Which all naturally ties back to the One Ring, the Ur-example of " useful invisibility granting artifact = evil".
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Jan 13, 2015 19:37
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In that light it's kind of funny that the cloak in Harry Potter was the "good" deathly hallow. "Yeah this was draped over Death's shoulders for a few billion years but it's totally legit."
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Jan 13, 2015 19:47
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Chaltab posted:In that light it's kind of funny that the cloak in Harry Potter was the "good" deathly hallow. "Yeah this was draped over Death's shoulders for a few billion years but it's totally legit." That's actually a really interesting point. Invisibility overwhelmingly seems to be treated as a negative ability in pop culture except in HP.
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Jan 13, 2015 22:36
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That might - but I certainly wouldn't be super confident about this - date back to H. G. Wells and The Invisible Man, because Griffin (the Invisible Man) is an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 13, 2015 22:41
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Mors Rattus posted:That might - but I certainly wouldn't be super confident about this - date back to H. G. Wells and The Invisible Man, because Griffin (the Invisible Man) is an rear end in a top hat. The oldest example of invisible = dick that I know of is the Ring of Gyges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges). I think authors tend to keep invisibility as a badguy power since it has all sorts of negative implications/associations with sneakiness and backstabbing rather than the traditional honest and heroic way of doing things (even if invisibility would totally own and solve a lot of fantasy hero problems when used properly).
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Jan 13, 2015 22:47
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Bob Quixote posted:(even if invisibility would totally own and solve a lot of fantasy hero problems when used properly). Many authors (and Goodkind is a prime example of this) tend to introduce powers like that with the express purpose of solving a single problem (or sometimes another problem later on as a Chekhov's gun type situation), and then promptly forget about it. The Harry Potter series always had a chronic problem with forgetting all the amazing stuff it introduced in past books even if they could help with a given situation in the next. That, and giving ludicrously powerful artifacts to 13-year-olds (goddamn timeturners) and yet no one seems at all concerned with the potentially catastrophic consequences if someone with an ounce of creativity got hold of them. That's kind of the problem with giving powerful things to the heroes: you can end up locking yourself out of being able to write tense situations in the future, because you'll always be thinking "Oh, wait, poo poo, the hero could just turn invisible and negate this entire plotline". Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason Goodkind is making Richard get rid of his cloak: it would interfere with some future plot point if he could still use it. Then again, that would be giving Goodkind credit as being able to plan his plot ahead of time, and I don't know if I want to go that far.
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Jan 13, 2015 23:02
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Bob Quixote posted:The oldest example of invisible = dick that I know of is the Ring of Gyges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges). Basically, both things are at the heart of storytelling. The traditional Hero's Journey requires the hero to confront his obstacles. Sneaking is a cowardly way. Couple that with invincibility being a power that is overcome by cleverness, a trait normally reserved for aforementioned heroes...
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Jan 13, 2015 23:15
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Many authors (and Goodkind is a prime example of this) tend to introduce powers like that with the express purpose of solving a single problem (or sometimes another problem later on as a Chekhov's gun type situation), and then promptly forget about it. The Harry Potter series always had a chronic problem with forgetting all the amazing stuff it introduced in past books even if they could help with a given situation in the next. That, and giving ludicrously powerful artifacts to 13-year-olds (goddamn timeturners) and yet no one seems at all concerned with the potentially catastrophic consequences if someone with an ounce of creativity got hold of them. I always like to refer to authors like that as set builders rather than world builders. Like the time turners lead to one of the best set pieces of the HP series but outside of it they're super problematic. Goodkind is far more inept at this and is introducing new talents or hidden abilities constantly when he needs to set up his next asinine scene.
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Jan 13, 2015 23:29
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And, of course, in WoT, things like "I can now open a gateway between two places" actually *leads* to "okay now I can literally ignore all fortress walls" and "I can shoot cannons into literally any point in the world".
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Jan 13, 2015 23:31
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Many authors (and Goodkind is a prime example of this) tend to introduce powers like that with the express purpose of solving a single problem (or sometimes another problem later on as a Chekhov's gun type situation), and then promptly forget about it. The Harry Potter series always had a chronic problem with forgetting all the amazing stuff it introduced in past books even if they could help with a given situation in the next. That, and giving ludicrously powerful artifacts to 13-year-olds (goddamn timeturners) and yet no one seems at all concerned with the potentially catastrophic consequences if someone with an ounce of creativity got hold of them. There is a particularly egregious example of this late in the series.
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Jan 14, 2015 00:06
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silvergoose posted:And, of course, in WoT, things like "I can now open a gateway between two places" actually *leads* to "okay now I can literally ignore all fortress walls" and "I can shoot cannons into literally any point in the world". I read about 7 or 8 of those books back in highschool before giving up. I'd really enjoyed them and thought that the world and writing weren't bad, but it just got so bloated with more and more characters being introduced until the plot progression ground to a halt. I've heard they got better later after book 10 or so, but I'm not sure I'd want to put in the effort required to re-read them all to see for myself.
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Jan 14, 2015 00:20
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:The Harry Potter series always had a chronic problem with forgetting all the amazing stuff it introduced in past books even if they could help with a given situation in the next. That, and giving ludicrously powerful artifacts to 13-year-olds (goddamn timeturners) and yet no one seems at all concerned with the potentially catastrophic consequences if someone with an ounce of creativity got hold of them. Actually, the Potter books are quite the opposite, with many seemingly minor things later turning out to be very significant (the cursed necklace is a great example; it first appears in book 1 or 2). And people were incredibly concerned about the abuse of time turners at least until they were all pointedly destroyed during the battle in the MoM.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:05
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There's a lot about Potter that doesn't make sense or falls apart under closer scrutiny but at the end of the day Rowling creates compelling characters you care about so you let the flaws slide. Goodkind's likeable characters are basically accidents who get forgotten about as soon as you get enough lines to like them. Like Chase was loving awesome. At least he's probably happy somewhere being a cool dad and having a loving wife without risking his life for Richard's dumbness.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:44
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Paragon8 posted:Like Chase was loving awesome. At least he's probably happy somewhere being a cool dad and having a loving wife without risking his life for Richard's dumbness. Chase and Rachel are coming back. I forget when they appear next, but I know they're in the endgame.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:49
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The point of both the Invisible Man and the myth of the Ring of Gyges is that if you are invisible, you can do whatever you want without social consequences because you are completely anonymous and undetectable. This swiftly corrupts the protagonists, because they can easily get away with anything from theft to murder and are nearly omnipotent compared to an ordinary person. In other settings, it's more a symbolic association between concealing your deeds from the community and evil.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:55
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:Chase and Rachel are coming back. Please don't die like a chump, Chase  Hodgepodge posted:The point of both the Invisible Man and the myth of the Ring of Gyges is that if you are invisible, you can do whatever you want without social consequences because you are completely anonymous and undetectable. This swiftly corrupts the protagonists, because they can easily get away with anything from theft to murder and are nearly omnipotent compared to an ordinary person. It's probably getting off topic for this thread but I find it super interesting how the invisibility cloak is treated as uniformly positively in HP when like as you point out that it's typically a corrupting influence in fiction. The only other fiction I can think of where invisibility is positive is the Invisible Woman from the Fantastic Four. I suppose Rowling didn't pause to think about what a teenager would really use invisibility for especially in conjunction with a map that could track anyone on school grounds.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:23
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Paragon8 posted:The only other fiction I can think of where invisibility is positive is the Invisible Woman from the Fantastic Four. Please do not ever google "Malice".
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Jan 14, 2015 03:36
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