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Question, how many Boeing models were the direct result of PanAm? 377,747, 707? any others? also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v92U2F9gbUo
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Jan 14, 2015 01:34
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:The PC-12 looks like a Super King Air someone kitbashed because they lost one of the engines. If I were in the market for a smallish turboprop that would be the one I'd get. More power than a king air 90, better performance, bigger cabin and that glorious cargo door. Plus it isn't built by a company that hasn't shown any real innovation in the past 25 years. (The jet biz doesn't count!)
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Jan 14, 2015 01:36
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If I fly into Dulles one morning to spend a day at Udvar-Hazy (then the following day or two in DC), what are the luggage storage options? I'll have at least one big checked bag that won't fit a carry-on locker. Would I need to go to a Hotel and come back? Are there big lockers at Dulles? Hotel near Dulles first night (so I can drop bags) then transfer to a hotel in town following nights?
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Jan 14, 2015 02:10
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Dulles doesn't have storage lockers, I don't think. No Washington DC airport does, and they haven't for, ohhhhh, 13 years and a few months or so. Udvar-Hazy does have storage lockers. See stow your baggage, but the sizes might not work for a big suitcase. there are some hotels onsite at Dulles which (in 2012 at least) run shuttles to the museum, or there's a bus line you can take from the terminal -> museum. 983 I think. Of course if you've got a huge bag and you're going into DC proper later ... renting a car? Toss it in the trunk. There's a security search at the entrance of Udvar-Hazy so I'd go as light as you can however you end up doing it. Psion fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 02:21
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Cheers. Also, I'm planing a trip out to Wright-Patterson. Looking at 3-4 day road-trip doing NY -> Dayton -> Durham NC. As road trips go: Good idea or bad idea? Anything cool/nice to see along the way? Preferred routes? The alternative would be to fly to OH somewhere, hire a car there and just do the second leg.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:34
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VOR LOC posted:If I were in the market for a smallish turboprop that would be the one I'd get. More power than a king air 90, better performance, bigger cabin and that glorious cargo door. Plus it isn't built by a company that hasn't shown any real innovation in the past 25 years. (The jet biz doesn't count!) I don't know, if you sat in an early B200 versus a brand new 200GT, you'd never think they're the same basic airplane. With a modern cabin, current glass cockpit and vastly improved engines, it almost is a totally new airplane. It's a testament to just how right Beechcraft got the King Air design that it is competitive to this day with just changes to the aircraft systems. Having said that, and having flown both the King Air and the PC-12, I preferred the PC-12 for a number of reasons. Landing the PC-12 was a breeze, what with its lower approach speed and floaty, trailing arm main landing gear. The cabin is a lot quieter in the PC-12 too and that cargo door is so awesome. That said, the PC-12 is a fair bit slower than all the King Airs save the 90 (which is seriously loving slow) and I found the control forces, especially for the ailerons, to be inordinately heavy (supposedly the PC-12NG has remedied this). Dollar for dollar though, there is no better aircraft out there in its class (and many other classes for that matter) than the PC-12.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:40
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Captain Postal posted:Cheers. That's like 19 hours of driving (assuming NYC -> Dayton -> Raleigh) that's a shitload of a road trip for 3-4 days.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:11
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Captain Postal posted:Cheers. Like Plinkey said, that's a bit of a drive. If you do NYC -> Dayton, you'll be going along I-80 across Pennsylvania, where there isn't really a whole lot to see; then switch to I-76 in Youngstown, where you don't want to stop at after dark, or even during the day some times; through Akron, which maybe you could swing by the Goodyear blimp hanger and take a few shots; then really not much else that is along the route; I-76 to I-71, I-71 to Columbus, then pick up I-70 to Dayton. If you go off a bit, there is Amish country around in both states; though I'm only really familiar with the Amish country in OH. There's an air museum at CAK, but I haven't been to it, I've heard it's relatively small, but I also heard they have a few restoration projects going on that might be interesting.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:38
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Once upon a time I looked into flying in and out of Dayton (or even nearby airports) to go to Wright-Pat. $1000 roundtrip. I declined. Maybe if I can score a good fare to Cincinnati and rent a car, but when I was looking it was poo poo all the way down. One day, one day...
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Jan 14, 2015 03:46
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Psion posted:Once upon a time I looked into flying in and out of Dayton (or even nearby airports) to go to Wright-Pat. $1000 roundtrip. I declined. Maybe if I can score a good fare to Cincinnati and rent a car, but when I was looking it was poo poo all the way down. One day, one day... I didn't really realize how cool it was to be a few-hours drive from Dayton back when I went every other year or so, and now I know a lot more about airplanes and history and poo poo in general, but I live at least a dozen hours away  Do you have a co-driver? I've driven nonstop from Indianapolis to Chicago to the tip of Cape Cod, then came back from Maine to Chicago to Indy, but it was also when I was a really dumb college student who didn't give a poo poo about things like "traveling safely" and I had a good navigator that didn't really drive ever, but was actively engaged in the trip and helped me survive. Places I still need to hit: Pensacola (this summer, probably), Oshkosh, every damned museum in the DC area ever. Beyond leaving the country, I've hit a lot of the cool stuff CONUS for aviation: Dayton Nellis petting zoo Pima/Boneyard Kalamazoo (hey, a blackbird!) Henry Ford Museum Chicago museums White Sands Missile Range A ton of smaller warbirds/whatever museums I guess I haven't bothered with a lot of civil aviation museums, but stuff that goes boom is way more interesting.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:08
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MrChips posted:I don't know, if you sat in an early B200 versus a brand new 200GT, you'd never think they're the same basic airplane. With a modern cabin, current glass cockpit and vastly improved engines, it almost is a totally new airplane. It's a testament to just how right Beechcraft got the King Air design that it is competitive to this day with just changes to the aircraft systems. I think my main beef, and this goes with pretty much all "light" aircraft, is that all you really ever see is an endless cycle of interior/avionics upgrades to airframes that have been around since my parents were toddlers. How you can have super advanced electronics inside an aircraft still flying a wing and engines built with slide rules just blows be away for some reason. While the PC-12 airframe isn't new by any stretch it still gives you a glimpse what is possible in that area of aviation if manufacturers would spend This is why I laugh and laugh at each new issue of Flying or AOPA magazine or whatever. Endless oohing and ahhhing over some new FMS put in a 182 or winglets on a Cirrus.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:42
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VOR LOC posted:I think my main beef, and this goes with pretty much all "light" aircraft, is that all you really ever see is an endless cycle of interior/avionics upgrades to airframes that have been around since my parents were toddlers. How you can have super advanced electronics inside an aircraft still flying a wing and engines built with slide rules just blows be away for some reason. While the PC-12 airframe isn't new by any stretch it still gives you a glimpse what is possible in that area of aviation if manufacturers would spend It all comes down to cost. If Beechcraft wanted to develop an all-new King Air, utilising the latest techniques and materials, it would probably cost a billion dollars. A billion dollars to build an aircraft that might be 10% better than the original King Air design fitted with modern engines and avionics. Nobody is willing to absorb that cost considering they sell in the low hundreds per year (emphasis on low). The other thing is that unlike the airlines, corporate clients are somewhat less sensitive to operating cost, and small improvements in performance don't have anywhere near the same effect in corporate aircraft. In an airline, you live and die by single percentage points, but what does a single percentage point get you in a King Air? Half a gallon of fuel per flying hour, three additional miles per hour or 40ish pounds of useful load.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:00
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VOR LOC posted:I think my main beef, and this goes with pretty much all "light" aircraft, is that all you really ever see is an endless cycle of interior/avionics upgrades to airframes that have been around since my parents were toddlers. How you can have super advanced electronics inside an aircraft still flying a wing and engines built with slide rules just blows be away for some reason. While the PC-12 airframe isn't new by any stretch it still gives you a glimpse what is possible in that area of aviation if manufacturers would spend When you put it that way, you make it sound like airframe parachutes are the biggest development in decades.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:14
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Captain Postal posted:Cheers. Trust me, fly. I've done NYC > Cleveland and Philadelphia > Akron several times, I can't imagine piling a trip to Dayton onto that on the same day and then going to NC the next day or day after that. NYC > Cleveland is a soul-sucking trip. Pennsylvania is too loving wide and once you're out of the cities there are stretches of I-80 where you need to be conscious of how much gas you have and how far it is to the next exit with a gas station. Also lots of two lanes with one semi passing another at 1/2 MPH faster. I'd fly into Columbus, Dayton or Cincinnati and rent a car there.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:33
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mlmp08 posted:Do you have a co-driver? yes, but unlike the crazy roadtrip poster who's only doing something moderately insane at 600-odd miles from NYC to Dayton, I would have to (co-)drive over 2300 miles to get to Dayton, which is fully insane. I'll fly in when I have time and fares aren't poo poo.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:39
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Psion posted:yes, but unlike the crazy roadtrip poster who's only doing something moderately insane at 600-odd miles from NYC to Dayton, I would have to (co-)drive over 2300 miles to get to Dayton, which is fully insane. Ah, I confused you with the poster coining in from NYC. Even my really dumb solo-driving trips of my youth topped out at 12-1300 miles.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:48
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Geoj posted:Trust me, fly. I've done NYC > Cleveland and Philadelphia > Akron several times, I can't imagine piling a trip to Dayton onto that on the same day and then going to NC the next day or day after that. NYC > Cleveland is a soul-sucking trip. Pennsylvania is too loving wide and once you're out of the cities there are stretches of I-80 where you need to be conscious of how much gas you have and how far it is to the next exit with a gas station. Also lots of two lanes with one semi passing another at 1/2 MPH faster. I've gotta drive from Columbus to Philly next weekend- I'd be flying if I had any spare budget to do it with. Pennsylvania is loving brutal to drive through.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:52
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Luneshot posted:Pennsylvania is loving brutal to drive through. A poster who has never lived in the southwestern deserts. Althought at least in West Texas and Arizona and New Mexico, you don't have to worry about rear end in a top hat rural cops and state troopers trying to ruin your day every 20 miles.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:59
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mlmp08 posted:A poster who has never lived in the southwestern deserts. Althought at least in West Texas and Arizona and New Mexico, you don't have to worry about rear end in a top hat rural cops and state troopers trying to ruin your day every 20 miles. Point taken  I've never been west of Texas but even from pictures I can tell that it's way worse. That's one road trip I would not want to take.
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Jan 14, 2015 06:08
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mlmp08 posted:A poster who has never lived in the southwestern deserts. Althought at least in West Texas and Arizona and New Mexico, you don't have to worry about rear end in a top hat rural cops and state troopers trying to ruin your day every 20 miles. Southwestern Nevada between Tahoe and Vegas is the worst I've ever been through. The government decided that the most beneficial way to use this land was to nuke it a bunch. In five hours of driving the only sign of civilization we saw was a brothel.
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Jan 14, 2015 06:19
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Luneshot posted:Point taken Once you start to think of a 250 mile trip as "normal" to get to even a smallish place, it kind of owns. Gorgeous views, driving at a really good clip, listening to podcasts while keeping an eye out for Pronghorn and Oryx and Cattle, blowing past cops at 15 over without them giving a poo poo is good stuff.
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Jan 14, 2015 06:31
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Glorgnole posted:Southwestern Nevada between Tahoe and Vegas is the worst I've ever been through. The government decided that the most beneficial way to use this land was to nuke it a bunch. I drove from Reno to Cedar City, UT via Tonopah this past fall, and while there was ton of nothing I loving loved it. Didn't see any brothels, but I knew they were there especially closer to Reno. Also knew I was skirting Area 51 so kept a close eye out 
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Jan 14, 2015 06:45
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mlmp08 posted:A poster who has never lived in the southwestern deserts. Althought at least in West Texas and Arizona and New Mexico, you don't have to worry about rear end in a top hat rural cops and state troopers trying to ruin your day every 20 miles. I've driven from San Antonio to Seattle before with my brother. We took turns, but once we got an hour out of SA, it was just endless stretches of desert, boredom, and wind turbines. We went straight west along I10 until we hit California. Pennsylvania ain't poo poo compared to that. I flew the next time I visited him
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Jan 14, 2015 06:57
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EightBit posted:I've driven from San Antonio to Seattle before with my brother. We took turns, but once we got an hour out of SA, it was just endless stretches of desert, boredom, and wind turbines. We went straight west along I10 until we hit California. Pennsylvania ain't poo poo compared to that. The worst part about driving across Pennsylvania is you really have to use the PA Turnpike, and you're pretty much loving yourself if you ever get off of it, which means you have to make do with whatever the next rest stop offers in the way of leg-stretching and food.
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Jan 14, 2015 07:43
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The worst part about driving across Pennsylvania is you really have to use the PA Turnpike, and you're pretty much loving yourself if you ever get off of it, which means you have to make do with whatever the next rest stop offers in the way of leg-stretching and food. After multiple trips back and forth to Edison, NJ and Philadelphia from NE Ohio I came to the conclusion that I'd rather take I-80 than the PA turnpike. Definitely not worth the $20+ it costs to go end to end.
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Jan 14, 2015 07:51
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Jonny Nox posted:Question, how many Boeing models were the direct result of PanAm? This one too.
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Jan 14, 2015 07:52
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YF19pilot posted:Like Plinkey said, that's a bit of a drive. If you do NYC -> Dayton, you'll be going along I-80 across Pennsylvania, where there isn't really a whole lot to see; then switch to I-76 in Youngstown, where you don't want to stop at after dark, or even during the day some times; through Akron, which maybe you could swing by the Goodyear blimp hanger and take a few shots; then really not much else that is along the route; I-76 to I-71, I-71 to Columbus, then pick up I-70 to Dayton. If you go off a bit, there is Amish country around in both states; though I'm only really familiar with the Amish country in OH. There's an air museum at CAK, but I haven't been to it, I've heard it's relatively small, but I also heard they have a few restoration projects going on that might be interesting. You can sit in a mig 17 and work the controls at the museum at CAK, it's pretty neat even if it is small.
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Jan 14, 2015 12:40
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Jonny Nox posted:Question, how many Boeing models were the direct result of PanAm?  Boeing 307 Stratoliner
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Jan 14, 2015 12:54
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slidebite posted:I drove from Reno to Cedar City, UT via Tonopah this past fall, and while there was ton of nothing I loving loved it. Didn't see any brothels, but I knew they were there especially closer to Reno. I used to drive Palmdale to Vegas/Tonopah. It was a really relaxing and scenic drive to Tonopah, the drive to Vegas was boring as poo poo. Although look out for loving cattle in the road. A coworker hit one at night going like 45 by the time he jammed his brakes. Totaled his F250 killed the cow.
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Jan 14, 2015 16:21
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Flikken posted:You can sit in a mig 17 and work the controls at the museum at CAK, it's pretty neat even if it is small. I'm going to have to go check that out, I live 15 minutes away from there. Do they have anything else noteworthy?
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Jan 14, 2015 16:47
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The 747 looked sexy in its first iteration, because the cockpit was set back. Also radar being in the nose has messed jets up. Look at the Boeing 377 with its pointy nose going on, no bump.
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Jan 14, 2015 17:04
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simplefish posted:The 747 looked sexy in its first iteration, because the cockpit was set back. Are we looking at the same 377?  Compare: 
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Jan 14, 2015 17:16
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Thanks for all the road-tripping advice. Amish country could be interesting for novelty value, but it doesn't sound like the drive through PA is worth the effort overall. I'm  so a 19hr over 3 days drive means nothing to me, but I'm traveling with some Europeans.Maybe I can
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Jan 14, 2015 22:43
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Geoj posted:I'm going to have to go check that out, I live 15 minutes away from there. Do they have anything else noteworthy? There is a nice F-14, part of a goodyear blimp gondola, an AA gun station that you can work the hand crank and pedals on. There was a bunch of poo poo in there, it wasn't particularly special but since I live just across the highway from it I finally visited it. There is a cut up B-25 there too I think.
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Jan 14, 2015 23:02
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Jonny Nox posted:Question, how many Boeing models were the direct result of PanAm? Watchin' this:
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Jan 15, 2015 03:20
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Stellar navigation is all you had before GPS over open water.
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Jan 15, 2015 03:28
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hobbesmaster posted:Stellar navigation is all you had before GPS over open water. Stellar navigation really isn't all that hard either, actually. If anyone's interested, I happen to own a (mostly complete but functional) Mark IXA bubble sextant, and I know how to use it; next time I'm home on a clear evening, I will take some measurements and write up an effortpost on how the sextant works and how to determine your position with it.
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Jan 15, 2015 04:37
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MrChips posted:Stellar navigation really isn't all that hard either, actually. If anyone's interested, I happen to own a (mostly complete but functional) Mark IXA bubble sextant, and I know how to use it; next time I'm home on a clear evening, I will take some measurements and write up an effortpost on how the sextant works and how to determine your position with it. Omg yeah, please. My dad was a navigator in the AF, back in the day and as a kid, I used to try to figure out how to use his bubble sextant, to no avail.
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Jan 15, 2015 04:52
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Flikken posted:There is a nice F-14, part of a goodyear blimp gondola, an AA gun station that you can work the hand crank and pedals on. There was a bunch of poo poo in there, it wasn't particularly special but since I live just across the highway from it I finally visited it. There is a cut up B-25 there too I think. I've always been meaning to go (no excuse not to when I was living that close). Maybe when I come back stateside I'll make sure to stop in.
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Jan 15, 2015 04:54
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hobbesmaster posted:Stellar navigation is all you had before and inertial navigation.
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Jan 15, 2015 05:25
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