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Sheen Sheen posted:And thanks for your condescending response to my Ukraine/Russia question, but your answer doesn't support your point--the NCR didn't invade a country and squash it's culture in favor of it's own, or even ransack it for it's resources--it entered a warzone and saved its people from complete annihilation while trying to fix the dam that could help everyone involved. They did invade the mojave though? They want the dam. If the legion wasn't coming they'd have annexed the entire area and shot anyone who said no. The NCR has a long history of taking what it wants if NPCs are to believed. If you follow the NCR route you even annex the god drat area and murder the man who said no. So how isn't it an invasion? Also help everyone involved? Did you even do the lucky old sun quest? The NCR wants to only bring power to NCR areas. They don't care about the mojave. They are patrolling the area to keep NCR intrests in check. Nothing else.
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Jan 15, 2015 07:32
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On my first playthrough of this game (I had never played Fallout 3 or any game as expansive as this before) I logged over 100 hours on that file alone. I was pretty amazed by it. But one thing that struck me was that, when I finally decided it was time for me to start moving to the actual endgame quests, the music at Hoover Dam was so different from the rest of the game. I later learned that this was because it's one of few tracks that aren't from earlier Fallout games, which are really more ambiance than music to begin with. So when I heard the Hoover Dam theme, I found myself asking "where was this the whole game?" I think that theme, combined with my ridiculous 100+ hour leadup to it made the end of the game feel that much cooler to me. It had also been that long since I had seen the introductory cutscene to the game, and since I had actually explored the whole wasteland that it spanned, I had much better context to understand where everything was taking place. It felt that much more impressive because of it, I think.
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Jan 15, 2015 07:32
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2house2fly posted:The NCR just fought a huge war against the Brotherhood and I'm pretty sure I remember some dialogue about how the Mojave chapter might be all that's left. So their Killed to Made Productive Members Of Society ratio is basically unsalvageable at this point. reasonably certain based on Veronicas dialogue that this is not the case
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Jan 15, 2015 08:09
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MariusLecter posted:NCR is poo poo, you are am imperial apologist and the guillotine is waiting for you. no more imperialist than house claiming the strip in the first place.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:10
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JawKnee posted:reasonably certain based on Veronicas dialogue that this is not the case Yes, when you destroy the BoS in the Mojave the end cutscene says that some survivors either integrate or go off to find another chapter to take them in. All of which must be hunted down and destroyed.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:11
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Oh come on, the Brotherhood aren't so bad. It's not like they send wanderers to their death in horribly irrad--- It's not like they sit idle while the shambling corpse of the United States plots to gas --- It's not like they send doom squads after anyone their exiles appr--- You know what gently caress those guys.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:13
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JawKnee posted:no more imperialist than house claiming the strip in the first place. House is New Vegas's savior. Eat his body, drink his blood.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:17
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name the faction that doesn't have people killed for their own ends
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Jan 15, 2015 08:17
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JawKnee posted:name the faction that doesn't have people killed for their own ends Followers. 
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Jan 15, 2015 08:21
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JawKnee posted:name the faction that doesn't have people killed for their own ends Jacobstown.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:22
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darkwasthenight posted:Followers. dude in westside
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Jan 15, 2015 08:23
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Isn't that more the Followers acting on the rest of Westside's behalf?darkwasthenight posted:Followers. Excuse me while I glance nervously at that hill past the Dam.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:25
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Jack of Hearts posted:Jacobstown. not a faction, but even though Marcus doesn't want you to kill the mercs, he's not exactly bent out of shape over it
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Jan 15, 2015 08:25
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JawKnee posted:name the faction that doesn't have people killed for their own ends
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Jan 15, 2015 08:26
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JawKnee posted:not a faction, but even though Marcus doesn't want you to kill the mercs, he's not exactly bent out of shape over it I don't know how you'd define "faction" then, but Marcus definitely doesn't have you kill anyone for his or his people's ends, which is what you asked.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:27
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Jack of Hearts posted:I don't know how you'd define "faction" then, but Marcus definitely doesn't have you kill anyone for his or his people's ends, which is what you asked. literally a faction in the game logic
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Jan 15, 2015 08:28
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JawKnee posted:literally a faction in the game logic The Courier.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:34
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MariusLecter posted:The Courier. OCD + the walls from Lombard Station will invalidate this for just about any player. Hell, most don't need the mod to trip over the collectathon.
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Jan 15, 2015 09:25
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RIP my legion run. I installed yes man to Houses computer to get Gannons quest to activate. Apparently this makes Legion hostile with no warning at all that this happened.  Edit: Nevermind, turns out feeding Boone to cannibals was the cause. Had to reload and kill him before putting him in the freezer so the game considers him dead and not permanently in my party. God the white glove society quest is so buggy it's shameful. Iretep fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 11:21
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Wolfsheim posted:If you ran through a checkpoint to get into a military base in Kabul do you think the guards there would shoot you for 'invading their personal space'? Just wondering. Not the same thing. You drive a vehicle through a checkpoint in Kabul or you walk up to it, your identity is verified, and if there's anything fishy you and your vehicle will be searched for unauthorised weapons and explosives. Particularly because, you know, it's a warzone. The only requirement for entry into The Strip is being rich. You can have all the explosives and guns in the Mojave. You can be affiliated with anyone and everyone. House does not give a gently caress about anything except whether you are rich. Also note that the men standing at the checkpoint at Camp Phoenix are men and not, you know, robots.
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Jan 15, 2015 12:14
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You know if every city had murder bots that said SUBMIT TO A CREDIT CHECK FOR ENTRY the world would be a better place.
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Jan 15, 2015 13:00
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The strip isnt a city. It's a casino.
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Jan 15, 2015 13:12
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With all the arguments about who the Mojave is best under the control of, I just found myself wondering, if I were one of the hapless saps in Megaton or Bigtown, who I'd be happiest to see arrive over the irradiated hill - NCR, House or the Legion? Not that I think any of those factions would have much of chance against the shiny and heroic paladins of the DC Brotherhood (F:NV did a great job of keeping them insular and dickish.) Was there a plot-line in New Vegas that involved direct confrontation between Caesar's Legion and the Brotherhood? I would have thought that power armour and laser mini-guns would make short work of guys in leather with lawnmower blade machetes, even if they're outnumbered 50 to 1. (Fake edit: Ignoring, I suppose the Legion hit squads with their gauss rifles and super sledges - but there didn't seem to be any of those in the camp at the Fort)
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Jan 15, 2015 14:15
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Sheen Sheen posted:House's company built all the computers that the US military uses. They also built loving Liberty Prime. House isn't just some random ghoul as you suggest. 
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Jan 15, 2015 14:17
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Iretep posted:The strip isnt a city. It's a casino. They are mutually exclusive of course. Wolfsheim posted:Bill Gates is as bad as Hitler if you really think about it Its a fair point, the military-industrial complex is a thing and definitely contributed to America's massive arms buildup and standoffs with the Soviets, it was not a passive actor simply responding to events since imaginary 'Missile Gaps' and fancy jets to blow up Southeast Asia often mean large profit margins. Also IBM sold tech to the Nazis that assisted in the Holocaust. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 16:59
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Doubtful Guest posted:With all the arguments about who the Mojave is best under the control of, I just found myself wondering, if I were one of the hapless saps in Megaton or Bigtown, who I'd be happiest to see arrive over the irradiated hill - NCR, House or the Legion? Not that I think any of those factions would have much of chance against the shiny and heroic paladins of the DC Brotherhood (F:NV did a great job of keeping them insular and dickish.) Caesar's Legion would probably get the warmest welcome as they grind up all the raiders, mutants, and Outcasts in their path. There's no tribals in the DC wasteland to integrate, and Caesar tends to go 'easy' (inasmuch as anything Legion can be called easy) on established cities; he even allows Primm to continue operating a casino. It might hinge on the Paradise Falls slavers - if the Legion destroys them for enslaving from cities under Legion rule, they could be hailed as heroes. The DC wastes are such a shithole that even the Legion is a step up; that's how they conquered Arizona, after all. The NCR would probably not get as good of a welcome, as they'd remind people of the East Coast Enclave too much - the republican propaganda won't work as well in a place that's had John Henry Eden broadcasting for years. If they do like they did in the Mojave and take control of the water supply, kill/drive out the Brotherhood and start imposing taxes that the area can't support, while only making token efforts against the raiders and slavers, they'd definitely be the enemy for a while. There's nothing in DC for House, so he'd leave the settlements alone. I imagine people would be freaked out by the killbot army sweeping through and exterminating the raiders, slavers and mutants, but when they move on without bothering the settlements, it might just pass into legend.
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Jan 15, 2015 17:27
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Byzantine posted:There's nothing in DC for House, so he'd leave the settlements alone. I imagine people would be freaked out by the killbot army sweeping through and exterminating the raiders, slavers and mutants, but when they move on without bothering the settlements, it might just pass into legend. House might be worth it, just to hear Liberty Prime inhabited by Victor dominating the Wasteland. 
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Jan 15, 2015 17:34
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A giant death robot happily shouting "Howdy Partner!" would be pretty good.
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Jan 15, 2015 17:41
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What is House's plan to get the Mojave's inhabitants to work? The NCR have a record for industry and agriculture, the Legion would kill or enslave them all but either way the remnants would be engaged in something. As far as I can tell from the game and the wiki House doesn't have any use for his subjects if he took over New Vegas proper, they will just remain ungoverned and ignored. They aren't exactly thriving in that environment right now.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:45
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I've still got a fair way to go so I've been skipping most posts. Sorry! I just finished Honest Hearts though. Pretty scenery, if a little too stifling and restricted to offer a taste of the real Zion (contrast with the wonderfully emulated settings in Grand Theft Auto, though I know HH is only DLC). I went with Graham, as I believe most people do. Is there really much incentive to go with Daniel? You might imagine that dividing your time between Follows-Chalk and Waking Cloud would give you two sides of the story, but since you find out that Waking Cloud's husband died despite leaving Zion in "safety", the choice doesn't really seem that polarised, and as she says over and over (and over and over) again, she herself fears that something needs to be done about the White Legs. The Dead Horses and Sorrows hold Zion sacred, which might be a step backwards in some eyes, but the game relishes in the natural/rebirth aspects of the place (emulating Native stuff, the cave art - which I loved seeing). I get that Graham is... well, a bit of a warmonger, but I like his development in the ending. Other than the bits from Follows-Chalk and Waking Cloud, that's one of the only bits I really liked about the end cutscene. The rest... it seemed tainted again with how the morality system is actually kind of black and white, or just good at putting you in a lose-lose situation. "You went with war, and now you have corrupted them with bloodshed!! Also the only real winners were the traders, mmm money capitalism, I hope you're happy!!". I will go on with Dead Money next, as was suggested a few pages back. But first, it's time for INVENTORY MANAGEMENT! I probably don't have a favourite location in NV yet, having not finished it. I thought the distant visual of the Outpost was pretty cool, and I liked the view of Vegas you get (especially at night) from the cemetery at Goodsprings. I suppose I should have a favourite location in 3... erm, the hallucinogen vault maybe, though I think they could've done more with it.
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Jan 15, 2015 19:25
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Seashell Salesman posted:What is House's plan to get the Mojave's inhabitants to work? The NCR have a record for industry and agriculture, the Legion would kill or enslave them all but either way the remnants would be engaged in something. As far as I can tell from the game and the wiki House doesn't have any use for his subjects if he took over New Vegas proper, they will just remain ungoverned and ignored. They aren't exactly thriving in that environment right now. If you end the game without a new sheriff for Primm and a House victory, House just sends in his Securitrons to enforce heavy taxation and ostensibly "protect" them. Also, Victor gets sent to Goodsprings to secretly monitor the town. It seems like he's fine just leaving everyone to their own devices as long as he doesn't see them as a threat and he can get something out of them. Which also means that he's kinda just leaving the towns to do whatever they were doing beforehand.
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Jan 15, 2015 19:28
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Seashell Salesman posted:What is House's plan to get the Mojave's inhabitants to work? The NCR have a record for industry and agriculture, the Legion would kill or enslave them all but either way the remnants would be engaged in something. As far as I can tell from the game and the wiki House doesn't have any use for his subjects if he took over New Vegas proper, they will just remain ungoverned and ignored. They aren't exactly thriving in that environment right now. Obviously House just waits for them to turn to drugs, become Fiends, and eliminate the rabble. 
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Jan 15, 2015 19:41
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Byzantine posted:Caesar's Legion would probably get the warmest welcome as they grind up all the raiders, mutants, and Outcasts in their path. There's no tribals in the DC wasteland to integrate, and Caesar tends to go 'easy' (inasmuch as anything Legion can be called easy) on established cities; he even allows Primm to continue operating a casino. It might hinge on the Paradise Falls slavers - if the Legion destroys them for enslaving from cities under Legion rule, they could be hailed as heroes. The DC wastes are such a shithole that even the Legion is a step up; that's how they conquered Arizona, after all. If there's ever a good time to go full Legion, the Capital Wasteland is it. Put that shitheap to the torch and don't look back.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:49
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I've still got a fair way to go so I've been skipping most posts. Sorry! How exactly does it corrupt them? There is tension between the Sorrows and the Dead Horses if you go to war, but peace is maintained by Graham, who can have his warlike tendencies calmed. The Happy Trails caravan successfully makes it to New Canaan, and the 88s are crushed, securing Zion and removing a potential ally to the Legion. The only person who really loses is Daniel, who I don't really sympathize with because he was keeping the Sorrows ignorant with his missionary work. He didn't care that they already had a religion, he tried to impose mormon virtues on them and didn't want them fighting. Like I said, there were moments of tension between the Sorrows/Dead Horses, but never outright war.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:09
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rope kid posted:Yes, that's always there for Crush the White Legs. Before you go in, Joshua tells you that you're about to engage in an extermination. Many of Daniel's fears have less to do with war and violence themselves and more to do with the path of warfare and the type of warfare in which Joshua engages. At some point, I think Daniel states that Joshua is (paraphrased) the poster child for the worst effects that a life of war can have on a person. Life on the warpath with Joshua Graham is more about slaughter than vigilance. rope kid posted:I should say that I totally understand why the majority of people side with Joshua. When I wrote the characters and presented the conflict, I knew then that the majority of people would side with Joshua. Daniel's viewpoint has a large amount of additional weight if you share his basic beliefs about Christian salvation. If you don't, people usually perceive the value of their "innocence" as minor (or even negative). edit: the sorrows are a people that don't know the concept of war in a world that literally annihilated itself in a world war within a series whose tagline is "war never changes". daniel is an idealist but he knows he is and it pretty much eats him alive that he's trying to follow his beliefs despite everything surrounding him making it pretty much actually impossible to do. joshua and daniel are some of the most well-written characters in new vegas, but i think it's kinda hard to tell that for daniel simply because of how much your personal beliefs play into how you view him. Fereydun fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 21:22
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Arcsquad12 posted:How exactly does it corrupt them? There is tension between the Sorrows and the Dead Horses if you go to war, but peace is maintained by Graham, who can have his warlike tendencies calmed. The Happy Trails caravan successfully makes it to New Canaan, and the 88s are crushed, securing Zion and removing a potential ally to the Legion. The only person who really loses is Daniel, who I don't really sympathize with because he was keeping the Sorrows ignorant with his missionary work. He didn't care that they already had a religion, he tried to impose mormon virtues on them and didn't want them fighting. Like I said, there were moments of tension between the Sorrows/Dead Horses, but never outright war. It's not the tensions between those tribes that corrupt them. It's leading the Sorrows Hunters to fight the White Legs that gives them their taste of war. The epilogue says that their tribe is forever changed for the startling new development that PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, and they've lost their childlike naivety and innocence.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:50
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Malpais Legate posted:It's not the tensions between those tribes that corrupt them. It's leading the Sorrows Hunters to fight the White Legs that gives them their taste of war. The epilogue says that their tribe is forever changed for the startling new development that PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, and they've lost their childlike naivety and innocence. Well I'd argue that they'd be corrupted as soon as the Courier took Waking Cloud with them. She killed lots of White Legs in my playthrough even before I sided with Joshua.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well I'd argue that they'd be corrupted as soon as the Courier took Waking Cloud with them. She killed lots of White Legs in my playthrough even before I sided with Joshua. They do this on their own in plenty of scripted (?) encounters before you get the choice between Joshua and Daniel.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:02
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Seashell Salesman posted:They do this on their own in plenty of scripted (?) encounters before you get the choice between Joshua and Daniel. Hence why I feel it was inevitable. Innocence doesn't last long in the future it seems.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:05
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Fereydun posted:edit: This is fair enough, though I'm not sure how far it goes with personal beliefs except for those tied absolutely to Christianity in a very big way. I think we adapt our logic when we know we're playing a video game, hence why even a hippie can play the Graham path. I did quite like Daniel's writing, which came out in the voice-acting. Perhaps I simply didn't go far enough with some dialogue to indicate what is what about the Sorrows (and there is a possible hindrance in Waking Cloud being a bit of a fisty machine). Arcsquad12 posted:How exactly does it corrupt them? I wasn't exactly paying full attention (though I have seen it before anyway), but doesn't the ending play it up in this way?
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Jan 15, 2015 22:40
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