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Hedgehog Pie posted:I wasn't exactly paying full attention (though I have seen it before anyway), but doesn't the ending play it up in this way? They become increasingly militant and I took that as they have dedicated warriors and training. Again, *"boohoo they are no longer ignorant tree huggers I can talk down to" -  Daniel
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Jan 16, 2015 00:17
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Ahundredbux posted:A giant death robot happily shouting "Howdy Partner!" would be pretty good. "Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit!" *mininuke KA-THWOOM* Seashell Salesman posted:What is House's plan to get the Mojave's inhabitants to work? The NCR have a record for industry and agriculture, the Legion would kill or enslave them all but either way the remnants would be engaged in something. As far as I can tell from the game and the wiki House doesn't have any use for his subjects if he took over New Vegas proper, they will just remain ungoverned and ignored. They aren't exactly thriving in that environment right now. The casino gig is just temporary; House intends to turn Vegas into a center of industry and science. New Vegas Steel, H&H Tools, REPCONN, HELIOS, and of course the Dam, all will need people to operate them.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:53
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I wasn't exactly paying full attention (though I have seen it before anyway), but doesn't the ending play it up in this way?
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Jan 16, 2015 02:22
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rope kid posted:During the attack on the White Legs there are a variety of places where you can see the Sorrows setting White Legs on fire and executing them on their knees. For Daniel, the issue wasn't violence, but the type of extreme warfare/extermination that Joshua practices. Whatever, Daniel put a .45 pistol in his mouth and took his holier than thou bullshit to the grave. (Headcanon)
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Jan 16, 2015 02:42
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rope kid posted:During the attack on the White Legs there are a variety of places where you can see the Sorrows setting White Legs on fire and executing them on their knees. For Daniel, the issue wasn't violence, but the type of extreme warfare/extermination that Joshua practices. I know eye for an eye isn't really what you'd want to go for, but the White Legs loving had it coming.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:04
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Hedgehog Pie posted:This is fair enough, though I'm not sure how far it goes with personal beliefs except for those tied absolutely to Christianity in a very big way. I think we adapt our logic when we know we're playing a video game, hence why even a hippie can play the Graham path. I did quite like Daniel's writing, which came out in the voice-acting. Perhaps I simply didn't go far enough with some dialogue to indicate what is what about the Sorrows (and there is a possible hindrance in Waking Cloud being a bit of a fisty machine). i think that logical adaptation for a video game world also makes it harder to really get daniel's beliefs to come through as 'believable' for a lot of folks because they're about the souls of dudes in a game where you're basically mass-murdering you way through random folks, which is an extra step of belief required vs. the reality that you play in and see as the courier for the joshua path doubly so considering that graham's path is also shown to be following the core gameplay concept of shooting/punching people to death
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Jan 16, 2015 03:06
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Personally, I find Daniel's view of the Sorrows to be incredibly demeaning and denigrating of their agency. It smacks of White Man's Burden, wrapped in a priestly cloth. Which brings me to my main qualm with HH: while It's possible to talk Joshua out of executing Salt-Upon-Wounds, tempering his bloodlust with mercy, it is NOT possible to alter Daniel's perception in any way whatsoever (to my knowledge) What's up with that? Am I missing something?
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Jan 16, 2015 04:28
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Excelzior posted:Personally, I find Daniel's view of the Sorrows to be incredibly demeaning and denigrating of their agency. It smacks of White Man's Burden, wrapped in a priestly cloth. He's an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 16, 2015 04:33
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Excelzior posted:Personally, I find Daniel's view of the Sorrows to be incredibly demeaning and denigrating of their agency. It smacks of White Man's Burden, wrapped in a priestly cloth. Daniel's a Jesus Hippie, basically. He believes in keeping people in the dark about reality and keeping people "childlike" for as long as possible to "protect their innocence."
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Jan 16, 2015 05:54
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Excelzior posted:Personally, I find Daniel's view of the Sorrows to be incredibly demeaning and denigrating of their agency. It smacks of White Man's Burden, wrapped in a priestly cloth. Daniel's got his heart in the right place, but he needs to get off his high horse. He views the Sorrows like they're literal children, and that's not okay. Waking Cloud is fully grown woman who just maimed a loving legion of White Legs with a bear fist strapped to her bare fist. She does not need to be lied to, and the Sorrows do not need to be coddled. Malpais Legate fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 05:55
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rope kid posted:During the attack on the White Legs there are a variety of places where you can see the Sorrows setting White Legs on fire and executing them on their knees. For Daniel, the issue wasn't violence, but the type of extreme warfare/extermination that Joshua practices. Oh yeah, that was as clear as the Virgin River so I have no difficulties there. Neat detail too, though admittedly I didn't see any of what you describe. For some reason I insisted on doing the final attack at night, which does not go together well with how the room with my Xbox is set up (it was 4pm on a bright day, in a room with full-length glass patio doors). Come to think of it, what's the influence behind Daniel? I just know there are similarly-themed westerns involving a well-meaning white man at odds with the beliefs and realities of Natives, shown in various lights across the years.
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Jan 16, 2015 07:36
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The Survivalist would want the Sorrows to defend themselves 
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Jan 16, 2015 11:34
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Pwnstar posted:The Survivalist would want the Sorrows to defend themselves Oooh, yes, I forgot about this. Aside from reserving some scepticism for them worshipping an old hiker man, I feel like the game looks highly upon the survivalist and wants the player to sympathise too (probably not too difficult, as it's easy to make him look skilled and, dare I say it, "badass"). So it's important that his parting message seemed to be, "Don't like anyone take Zion from you". This might be a bit controversial, but I have mixed feelings on the survivalist tale snippets. His story is understandably tragic, but at some points it's such a mudslide of tragedy that it starts to become a little bit funny. The Keller family recordings in 3 had a similar effect for me, I think sometimes you need everything you can get (visuals, sound, everything combining to allow for irony, etc.) to make such scenes effective. I particularly "liked" when he emerges from the cave and sees the family of bighorns. "loving Goddamnit".
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Jan 16, 2015 11:49
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On balance I think he probably would, but in fairness the very last thing he writes is this:quote:I wish them well. It's been a gift to me, at the end of it all, to behold innocence. So there is at least one part of his logs that goes along with Daniel's point of view.
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Jan 16, 2015 12:04
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Oh yeah, that was as clear as the Virgin River so I have no difficulties there. Neat detail too, though admittedly I didn't see any of what you describe. For some reason I insisted on doing the final attack at night, which does not go togetheit out. well with how the room with my Xbox is set up (it was 4pm on a bright day, in a room with full-length glass patio doors). The entire Honest Hearts dlc reminded me of The Mission. Like a lot. Robert DeNiros character makes me think of Graham with the whole redemption angle while Daniel reminds of a less effective version of Jeremy Irons character. Great movie with an even better soundtrack so check it out.
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Jan 16, 2015 12:34
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Funny you should mention that movie:rope kid posted:I think I've posted this before, but if you'd like to see a film that was a big inspiration for Honest Hearts, check out The Mission (though obviously there are a lot of practical differences). rope kid posted:In The Mission, Roland Joffé directed a great scene where the rehabilitating slaver Mendoza (played by Robert de Niro) reads from 1 Corinthians 13 and shows him (and the Jesuits) interacting with the Guarani. At the end of the passage, he's sitting near a river as one of the Guarani boys spears a fish. It's really fantastic punctuation.
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Jan 16, 2015 12:50
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Rope Kid should lead/direct all video games ever
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Jan 16, 2015 16:06
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"If might is right, then love has no place in the world. It may be so, it may be so. But I don't have the strength to live in a world like that, Rodrigo. "
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Jan 16, 2015 18:21
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2house2fly posted:Funny you should mention that movie: Dude's got good taste. The parallels were so strong I was able to consider Daniel's viewpoint a bit more seriously when comparing him to Father Gabriel. Ultimately I didn't see Daniel is having nearly the same commitment and conviction as Gabriel and felt Daniel's motives to be much more selfish in comparison. Less than preserving the Sorrow's innocent souls (already a condescending point against taking his side), he seemed to be focused on protecting his own. And considering how The Mission ends and the sort of "doomed" feeling it gave me about either option, I figured I'd rather go with Graham who'd give the Sorrows/Dead Horses a better shot a long-term survival and seemed more likely to take any action to back up his talk. I guess he had the more "honest" heart (hurr durr). HH ended up being my favorite DLC and one of my favorite video game experiences. It was very thoughtfully arranged and the biggest reason I pledged to the PoE kickstarter despite having little interest in that genre of RPG.
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Jan 16, 2015 21:15
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Colonel Corazon posted:Dude's got good taste. The parallels were so strong I was able to consider Daniel's viewpoint a bit more seriously when comparing him to Father Gabriel. Ultimately I didn't see Daniel is having nearly the same commitment and conviction as Gabriel and felt Daniel's motives to be much more selfish in comparison. Less than preserving the Sorrow's innocent souls (already a condescending point against taking his side), he seemed to be focused on protecting his own. And considering how The Mission ends and the sort of "doomed" feeling it gave me about either option, I figured I'd rather go with Graham who'd give the Sorrows/Dead Horses a better shot a long-term survival and seemed more likely to take any action to back up his talk. I guess he had the more "honest" heart (hurr durr). HH ended up being my favorite DLC and one of my favorite video game experiences. It was very thoughtfully arranged and the biggest reason I pledged to the PoE kickstarter despite having little interest in that genre of RPG. The thing about Graham, for me, is that he seemed more... aware of his own failings. He thought that killing the White Legs was the best way, but he was well aware that part of the reason he thought that way was his whole life he'd been a violent man. He listened when you talked, because he knew that he was more than capable of making mistakes when left to his own devices. Daniel seemed convinced of his own righteousness, and that's a drat dangerous place to be at the best of times.
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Jan 17, 2015 05:49
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Knowing that it makes a lot of sense now why the Sorrows live in an area with a lot of waterfalls. Seriously go watch the Mission its almost a perfect movie, the score from Ennio is worth the price alone and the cinematography is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRi-AYy-ViE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUQvQKlab7Q (I forgot that Liam Neeson is in this movie also) Also another reference to the movie is A Light Shining in the Darkness since the movie ends with the bible passage John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not."
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Jan 17, 2015 08:03
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achillesforever6 posted:Knowing that it makes a lot of sense now why the Sorrows live in an area with a lot of waterfalls. Seriously go watch the Mission its almost a perfect movie, the score from Ennio is worth the price alone and the cinematography is amazing Daniel is the darkness. That loving moron.
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Jan 17, 2015 08:07
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Neat. I should probably check out that film then. What I am less enthusiastic about checking out is all the little bonuses in Dead Money, much as I appreciate the storytelling. I didn't have the patience to go searching for 100 steel ingots in The Pitt either, but then they didn't keep track of your progress on screen to entice you!
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Jan 17, 2015 08:40
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The only things worth doing in dead money is find all the upgrades for the energy weapon you get if thats your thing, find the weapon repair kit vendor recipe, gamble at the casino until you get kicked out if you have the luck and find all the skill books(or just console them all in).
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Jan 17, 2015 09:08
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I think my favorite gimmick run for this game is no looting armor from corpses/no stealing. It's unlikely that poo poo is going to fit you anyway, and I figure you companions probably wouldn't put up with that or you being a crazy klepto
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Jan 17, 2015 09:17
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JawKnee posted:I think my favorite gimmick run for this game is no looting armor from corpses/no stealing. It's unlikely that poo poo is going to fit you anyway, and I figure you companions probably wouldn't put up with that or you being a crazy klepto My personal favorite gimmick run is no buying or selling from shopkeepers, except in the corner cases where the plot makes you. (e.g. the Omertas.) You can buy medical services and implants, no normal shopping. It's hard.
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Jan 17, 2015 13:39
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My favorite gimmick in Fallout 1 and 2 was to make a character that decided the only way to make the world safe was to murder literally everything else and to do it with his bare hands to make sure the world knew he meant business. I managed to complete those games that way but never tried 3 and NV. Is that possible? I'm serious about killing everything. If it wasn't in Vault 13 or Arroyo it loving died. I'm also serious about no weapons. Not even unarmed ones. Just punch the world to death. gently caress you world, I do what I want.
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Jan 17, 2015 13:50
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Dead Money is one of my favorite DLCs of all time, period. The collar thing gets a bit much at times, but I love the story, the setting, the atmosphere, the characters... I just went through it again and actually used some of the melee weapons. Bear trap fist forever
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Jan 17, 2015 13:55
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ToxicSlurpee posted:My favorite gimmick in Fallout 1 and 2 was to make a character that decided the only way to make the world safe was to murder literally everything else and to do it with his bare hands to make sure the world knew he meant business. I managed to complete those games that way but never tried 3 and NV. Is that possible? What about armour, especially power armour? Punching Horrigan to death sounds hard.
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Jan 17, 2015 14:16
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ToxicSlurpee posted:My favorite gimmick in Fallout 1 and 2 was to make a character that decided the only way to make the world safe was to murder literally everything else and to do it with his bare hands to make sure the world knew he meant business. I managed to complete those games that way but never tried 3 and NV. Is that possible?
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Jan 17, 2015 16:25
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The only thing I really *thump* don't like about Dead Money is *thump-thump-thump* when you're working your way to *thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump* the auto-doc to fetch Christine.
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Jan 17, 2015 17:29
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MariusLecter posted:The only thing I really *thump* don't like about Dead Money is *thump-thump-thump* when you're working your way to *thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump-thump* the auto-doc to fetch Christine.  Im going as fast as I can, drat you, just hold oooonnnnnn
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Jan 17, 2015 17:49
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Xander77 posted:Not in Fallout 3, absolutely in NV. The game is specifically designed with people like you in mind. Technically you can't murder the entire world since most unnamed NPCs respawn after a few days, though.
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Jan 17, 2015 17:58
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Iretep posted:The only things worth doing in dead money is find all the upgrades for the energy weapon you get if thats your thing, find the weapon repair kit vendor recipe, gamble at the casino until you get kicked out if you have the luck and find all the skill books(or just console them all in).
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Jan 17, 2015 18:01
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Paracelsus posted:Don't forget the vendor recipes for chems, including Steady, which is ordinarily very limited in supply. seriously, Steady makes that dlc a cake-walk
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Jan 17, 2015 18:04
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StashAugustine posted:Technically you can't murder the entire world since most unnamed NPCs respawn after a few days, though. You can depopulate the world by enslaving people, though.
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Jan 17, 2015 18:08
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I have warmed to Dead Money a little more. The characters are fun and I like how you're encouraged to interact with them (though sometimes I've found I need to repeat dialogue options to get what I want). The concept is cool. I don't mind the gameplay, though I don't think it's entirely suited sometimes (obviously you might say) and I think there's a little too much to juggle (got to run through that poisonous mist, oops you got bear trap'd and lol you just blew up). Still don't know if I'm up for the challenges because re-combing areas sounds like a pain, though otherwise I do appreciate that it's trying to do something different by slowing you down. Most important is that I'm interested in seeing how it pans out, though I think I know about the gold weight stinger. I know nothing else though, so no spoilers please!
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Jan 17, 2015 19:41
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I love how New Vegas actively encourages people to cheat and game the system. I love walking out with a few hundred pounds worth of gold and locking that bastard in a vault.
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Jan 17, 2015 23:43
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:What about armour, especially power armour? Punching Horrigan to death sounds hard. Very high end unarmed strikes actually let you just blast through armor. If you have high enough attributes (AGI and STR), enough skill (over 130% or so), and are high enough level (in the teens) you get access to insane attacks. Piercing Kick, according to the wiki, has +12 armor penetration and a +50% crit chance. Aside from that Slayer makes every melee attack automatically crit. Good enough crits just plain ignore armor anyway. As for not dying HTH evade, Tesla armor, and Psycho makes you literally invincible.
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Jan 18, 2015 02:40
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Xander77 posted:Not in Fallout 3, absolutely in NV. The game is specifically designed with people like you in mind. you can technically have a punch run of Fallout 3 if you use Tale of Two Wastelands to take Fallout 3 into New Vega's Engine.
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Jan 18, 2015 02:45
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