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Broken Box posted:From the looks of how powerful missiles are on your strike craft have the Turanic missile corvettes been made worthwhile in Cataclysm? For how long it takes to pick up heavier firepower of your own it seems that might make a decent intermediary ship if so. It's friggin' impossible to salvage missile corvettes, I tried in HW1. Might be doable in Cataclysm thanks to the way damaged ships slow down and generally underperform.
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Jan 22, 2015 10:58
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Kibayasu posted:Mines are also easier to clear with just a big group in sphere formation as they'll move with the mines rather than toward them. You remember correctly. Destroying or capturing the cruiser causes the base to psychically know where you are, send it's entire fleet at you, plus an additional spawn of two destroyers with supporting frigates and interceptors. Even with the cruiser, you WILL have problems with that amout of firepower against you.
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Jan 22, 2015 12:39
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Can anything at the Taidanii base detect your leeches?
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Jan 22, 2015 12:59
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Captain Bravo posted:Can anything at the Taidanii base detect your leeches? Nope. The last time I finished this level, my fleet contained a cruiser *and* two destroyers.
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Jan 22, 2015 13:02
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Captain Bravo posted:Can anything at the Taidanii base detect your leeches?
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Jan 22, 2015 13:03
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Nuramor posted:Nope. The absolute best thing about the Homeworld series is how rewarding it can be if you have a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a sack full of 'sperg. 
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Jan 22, 2015 13:06
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To be fair, that cruier just sitting there on its lonesome and letting it get leeched freely just screams "salvage me!"
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Jan 22, 2015 13:20
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Polaron posted:Also, you're losing your ACVs to the minefield because you're keeping them in ACV mode. They maneuver and dodge much more slowly when linked and a single mine kills two craft instead of just one. berryjon also really likes putting his strike craft in Aggressive, which causes them to take far higher losses than normal. You see, Strike Craft are altered the most by stance differences. In Evasive, Strike Craft disregard formation and will attempt to break off and evade all enemies. If ordered to attack, they will break off in 2-unit pairs and will fire short bursts then peel away. In Normal, Strike Craft will attempt to stay in formation, but will dodge out of it if they need to avoid enemy fire. In Aggressive, Strike Craft don't evade incoming fire (although their speed and maneuverability means a fair bit of it will miss) and will attempt to stay in formation. This is useful if you're trying to finish off a target no matter what (especially if combined with Sphere formation), but for 90% of combat I find Aggressive Strike Craft to take far too many losses and be far too unwieldy. MJ12 fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 13:53
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So, did the builders of the Naggarok send out other ships to other galaxies? Did those also pick up the Beast in hyperspace? Were they able to contain it as well as the Naggarok? What I'm asking is: are there galaxies out there just filled to the brim with Beast? And if so, what are they planning on doing? Also: I too captured that cruiser every time I played. It's awesome.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:38
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What I always assumed happend is that the naggarok people sent the ship out, it never returned, assumed it exploded and tried something diffrent instead.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:40
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Calculus Man posted:So, did the builders of the Naggarok send out other ships to other galaxies? Did those also pick up the Beast in hyperspace? Were they able to contain it as well as the Naggarok? What I'm asking is: are there galaxies out there just filled to the brim with Beast? And if so, what are they planning on doing? If you've played the game then you know just as much as anyone else.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:55
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Are the Sentinels/Leech useful at all in MP? They seem extremely niche.EponymousMrYar posted:One note about Sentinel's that sort of throws a wrench into them is that you want to have 12 of them for maximum shield coverage. I always wondered, since I wasn't aware of HW at the time: beyond the game's story, was HW particularly groundbreaking in the tech side of stuff? And in the development of RTS's in general, since they were the ticket back then. After all I can't think of many RTS'sof the time that can manage so many individual units, in 3D movement, with so many different mechanics, and firing mostly individualized projectiles. I could see a group of Missile Destroyers bringing an old computer to its knees if they all emptied the tubes at the same time.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:36
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Calculus Man posted:So, did the builders of the Naggarok send out other ships to other galaxies? Did those also pick up the Beast in hyperspace? Were they able to contain it as well as the Naggarok? What I'm asking is: are there galaxies out there just filled to the brim with Beast? And if so, what are they planning on doing? I like to think the Beast was a single thing chilling out in hyperspace, maybe because its creators/last victims stuck it in hyperspace in a remote void between galaxies so the likelihood of it finding someone or being found was as low as possible. Based on the map in the engineer's report at the close of the mission, the Naggarok spent a long time in hyperspace. So, what would you do if you were a lonely space monster trapped in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden a ship comes cruising through your neighborhood? Guy just put his thumb out to catch a lift, and welp
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Jan 22, 2015 15:40
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If you take the Heavy Cruiser and (as another poster suggested) the capships guarding the research station, is it then possible to successfully destroy all the Taidani in this mission?
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Jan 22, 2015 17:14
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Man, doing that mission so cleanly (when you know all the triggers) just bears no resemblance to just how horribly BAD it can go if you don't. Even on the easier difficulties, it is totally possible to lose your whole fleet if you don't react fast enough during the mission and/or if you 8X speed and stay to clean the map of resources after the mission (as opposed to before, like here). On a first playthrough, this is the first "we're not loving around anymore" mission.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:25
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:I like to think the Beast was a single thing chilling out in hyperspace, maybe because its creators/last victims stuck it in hyperspace in a remote void between galaxies so the likelihood of it finding someone or being found was as low as possible. Based on the map in the engineer's report at the close of the mission, the Naggarok spent a long time in hyperspace. So, what would you do if you were a lonely space monster trapped in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden a ship comes cruising through your neighborhood? Guy just put his thumb out to catch a lift, and welp Considering how wast intergalactic void should be even in hyperspace... then again, who's to say it's not like warp or anything? Alternatively, it's what fills the void between galaxies. Beast. Just like space monsters in... Fading Suns, I guess?
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Jan 22, 2015 17:37
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JcDent posted:Considering how wast intergalactic void should be even in hyperspace... then again, who's to say it's not like warp or anything? I'm not sure if this counts as spoiler for the series as a whole, since it's never outright stated as much as implied (so berryjon, just let me know if you want me to remove it), but the Kushan/Taiidan/probably Bentusi are all likely descended from humans who came to the Homeworld galaxy from our own, so presumably if the Beast really did fill the void between galaxies it would have been an issue long before now.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:51
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vmdvr posted:Man, doing that mission so cleanly (when you know all the triggers) just bears no resemblance to just how horribly BAD it can go if you don't. Even on the easier difficulties, it is totally possible to lose your whole fleet if you don't react fast enough during the mission and/or if you 8X speed and stay to clean the map of resources after the mission (as opposed to before, like here). On a first playthrough, this is the first "we're not loving around anymore" mission. Even when you know all the triggers, some missions just go that bad. I had to re-record mission 10 (where we get that) simply because the enemy is just that tough, and I would rather not start mission 11 with my Processor over 100KM from the Kuun-Lan. Polaron posted:Time. Doing that is extremely slow. Plus, you're never really hurting for RUs in this game. It can be funny to eat an enemy's resourcers in multiplayer, though. Mission 7 exists for this exact reason. Don't worry. I get my rear end kicked good and honest, despite my best efforts.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:58
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You know, I was joking when I said that this game reminded me of Event Horizon, but what happened to the NAGGAROK is almost exactly the plot of Event Horizon 
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Jan 22, 2015 20:35
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I can just see a Taidani engineer describing the effects of Kushan shiphacking in the same tones as our poor guy describing the Beast. So does this imply that Somtaaw-capped ships are remote controlled and the original crew is still aboard, alternatively twiddling their thumbs and screaming in terror? I guess I'd rather assume that they were spaced as part of the hack, or moved off ship and replaced between missions (while we're watching the Bink video)
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Jan 22, 2015 20:35
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I can imagine the hack including a message from the Somtaaw saying something along the lines of "Hi, we're Higaarans and we're now in control of your ship. All who wish to join our fleet, say 'aye' and raise a hand. All who don't, you know where the escape pods are - good luck in deep space, or back at base when you have to tell your bosses that you lost a Heavy Cruiser to a mining kiith." Just hiring the crew on, it's not like Somtaaw's especially picky about where they get their capable recruits from.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:00
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Calculus Man posted:So, did the builders of the Naggarok send out other ships to other galaxies? Did those also pick up the Beast in hyperspace? Were they able to contain it as well as the Naggarok? What I'm asking is: are there galaxies out there just filled to the brim with Beast? And if so, what are they planning on doing? I always just kinda took it as a hazard of traveling extreme distances in hyperspace. That, if there's a lot of empty space between two galaxies, then the void in between is "here be dragons" territory. Of course, no one actually knew for sure, because the Naggarok was exploring unknown space. The writer of this game's plot actually ended up as the designer for Sword of the Stars, a 4x strategy game. There too, if you make particularly long "nodespace" jumps with two of the playable factions (each faction has different drive technology, only two use nodespace, which is basically wormholes), you run the risk of encountering strange, ethereal creatures that can destroy your ships. They don't function like the Beast, but they're still unknown entities in the far reaches of space. Phy posted:I can just see a Taidani engineer describing the effects of Kushan shiphacking in the same tones as our poor guy describing the Beast. Alternatively, perhaps the Somtaaw arrested them, brought them aboard the Kuun-Lan, and showed them why they should remain compliant? Wouldn't take much to convince most of those Taiidan that working for the Somtaaw fleet is better than getting Beast-beamed. The Casualty fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 21:03
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 Holy poo poo, I don't know why it never occurred to me to try capping the cruiser in this mission, considering how cap-happy I was in HW1. Actually, I don't think I captured ANYTHING in my entire playthrough of Cataclysm, hence my gleeful surprise at the Somtaaw capture method.WFGuy posted:I can imagine the hack including a message from the Somtaaw saying something along the lines of "Hi, we're Higaarans and we're now in control of your ship. All who wish to join our fleet, say 'aye' and raise a hand. All who don't, you know where the escape pods are - good luck in deep space, or back at base when you have to tell your bosses that you lost a Heavy Cruiser to a mining kiith." Just hiring the crew on, it's not like Somtaaw's especially picky about where they get their capable recruits from.  Hey guys, what's up? Here's what's going on...
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Jan 22, 2015 22:11
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Markovnikov posted:Are the Sentinels/Leech useful at all in MP? They seem extremely niche. They are niche but it can be a really useful niche. Leeches have a third option in MP which is essentially 'leech for information.' As in you get full sensor information of the opponent you're leeching. It's quite handy and probably the sneakiest use of leeches. The other methods tend to get them noticed by attentive players. On the Tech side IIRC correctly: Actual 3D movement and large unit counts were the big things. The projectiles are handled pretty simply so even on old computers at the time it took a big battle for them to really feel it, even with missiles. Cata built upon the engine to refine a lot of things, the segmented shields one of them. The Casualty posted:I always just kinda took it as a hazard of traveling extreme distances in hyperspace. That, if there's a lot of empty space between two galaxies, then the void in between is "here be dragons" territory. Of course, no one actually knew for sure, because the Naggarok was exploring unknown space. Well Homeworld Space IS full of cosmic horrors and Dragons that defy explanation.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:36
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Um, is the part of the beast that left Naggarok aware that most of it is trapped in really deep space and its location? Would it send ships and workers out to repair it? Sure it'd take a long time to get there but time doesn't seem to kill the thing.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:20
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EponymousMrYar posted:On the Tech side IIRC correctly: Actual 3D movement and large unit counts were the big things. The projectiles are handled pretty simply so even on old computers at the time it took a big battle for them to really feel it, even with missiles. The thing that strains the engine is drone frigates. Drone frigates even today are complete framerate murderers in MP.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:42
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Neurion posted:
Somtaaw ships were generally much more efficient than the single-purpose Higaaran/Taiidani ships because of their inherent multirole nature, and the SU requirements meant you probably spent a lot more time building Somtaaw murderboats instead of capping enemy vessels. The Hive Frigate berryjon starts building in this is basically a frigate-sized mini-carrier which happens to have a destroyer-grade kinetic battery on it. The other Somtaaw heavy vessels get even more hardcore and are often capable of self-escorting, which means strategies which would get you killed in Homeworld work pretty well as a Somtaaw player.
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Jan 23, 2015 00:08
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Poil posted:Um, is the part of the beast that left Naggarok aware that most of it is trapped in really deep space and its location? Would it send ships and workers out to repair it? Sure it'd take a long time to get there but time doesn't seem to kill the thing. It has at least all the information that we have on account of having the original pod it can download the data from and having the brainpower to play around with it and get the same conclusions we did.
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Jan 23, 2015 00:27
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I loved the Hive Frigates and Sentinels, I think from the point I got them, I started using Acolytes a lot less, because a fully Sentinel'd Kuun-Lan could tank a shitload of things, and I seem to recall the Hive Frigates basically mauling anything Fighter-sized that looked at me funny, and a lot of bigger things, too, with a strike squad of Acolytes to dump missile into any big, single targets that didn't know who they were messing with.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:00
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Poil posted:Um, is the part of the beast that left Naggarok aware that most of it is trapped in really deep space and its location? Would it send ships and workers out to repair it? Sure it'd take a long time to get there but time doesn't seem to kill the thing. That is an excellent question and I imagine Somtaaw Command is pondering the exact same thing right about now.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:02
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Do we have any reason to think the Naggarok is important or necessary for the Beast to recover? I mean of course it will because of the fact that it's Chekhov's Plague Ship, but at this point in the story do the Somtaaw have any reason to think the Beast would care or be in any meaningful way empowered by the recovery of said ship?
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Jan 23, 2015 01:46
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Mzbundifund posted:Do we have any reason to think the Naggarok is important or necessary for the Beast to recover? I mean of course it will because of the fact that it's Chekhov's Plague Ship, but at this point in the story do the Somtaaw have any reason to think the Beast would care or be in any meaningful way empowered by the recovery of said ship? The Somtaaw don't currently have a reason to seek out the Naggarok, no. It's just an idle thought from a researcher.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:51
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I'm actually a little surprised you did cap it. That's a lot of SU to commit to one ship with your current supply cap.
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Jan 23, 2015 02:40
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Mzbundifund posted:Do we have any reason to think the Naggarok is important or necessary for the Beast to recover? I mean of course it will because of the fact that it's Chekhov's Plague Ship, but at this point in the story do the Somtaaw have any reason to think the Beast would care or be in any meaningful way empowered by the recovery of said ship? Theoretically speaking, it would be the Subject Zero of the Beast, so someone seeking to destroy it might as well study it from its origin point. Furthermore, the experimental Hyperspace drive and the excellent ship design of the Naggarok might be interesting to study. Inversely, the Beast might well be interested in regaining the ability to travel to other Galaxies.
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Jan 23, 2015 02:42
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Gothsheep posted:I'm actually a little surprised you did cap it. That's a lot of SU to commit to one ship with your current supply cap. This is only the case since our OP has a metric crap ton of workers and processors. Once the herd is thinned a bit it won't seem so unwieldy. Also, that Heavy Cruiser is hilariously powerful for this stage in the game. Imagine having a Heavy Cruiser on mission 5-6 in the original Homeworld.
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Jan 23, 2015 03:08
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Delta Green posted:Inversely, the Beast might well be interested in regaining the ability to travel to other Galaxies. Likely the ship may also have weaponry that outclasses the current HW universe it would want to recover (which probably means the Naggarok will be a mission boss later on.)
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Jan 23, 2015 03:19
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Gothsheep posted:I'm actually a little surprised you did cap it. That's a lot of SU to commit to one ship with your current supply cap. It is a lot of SU but the only other thing to put that SU into at the moment are workers (and at this point its not like he needs to harvest during the mission), Acolytes, or Hive Frigates. While the Heavy Cruiser is outclassed later by build-able ships right now it is easily the most powerful single ship. You'll notice that we haven't fought many large ships yet (that haven't come pre-crippled) but we also just got our first actual combat frigate.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:18
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Kibayasu posted:It is a lot of SU but the only other thing to put that SU into at the moment are workers (and at this point its not like he needs to harvest during the mission), Acolytes, or Hive Frigates. While the Heavy Cruiser is outclassed later by build-able ships right now it is easily the most powerful single ship. You'll notice that we haven't fought many large ships yet (that haven't come pre-crippled) but we also just got our first actual combat frigate. Which is hilarious considering the next mission is almost tailor designed for you to just have a massive Acolyte/ACV swarm. Acolytes, Always the Answer.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:46
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On the other hand, both the Naggarok and the beacon had been floating around for a million years. Naggarok might have floated into a star by now.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:46
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JcDent posted:On the other hand, both the Naggarok and the beacon had been floating around for a million years. Naggarok might have floated into a star by now. The beast might have been able to repair the engines of the Naggarok. It probably can't create a propulsion system out of whole cloth on a metal cube.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:49
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