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Amnistar posted:But yea, it's in the fricken' OP that flavor arguments are dumb, please don't make them and depend upon them. Gamerofthegame posted:fuk u i'm going for it Epsilon Plus posted:You arrive outside Light's Lab and the aformentioned reinforcements arrive in a cargo container. Some of them are unfamiliar; old, forgotten designs. You're pretty sure some of these aren't even true Robot Masters! In fact, during the introductions, you end up with several more robots than you did before. Hopelessly confused, you determine the best way to determine who is who is to dismantle each other, one by one, and read off your internal serial numbers.  I'm standing by it until we get a scum and see what the flavor of 'em is. With the full understanding that Milky Moor recently used flavor arguments to incredible effect in that 5-star auspol game. I still want to see his breadcrumbs to be fully satisfied, though.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:23
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Ernie. posted:Maybe I should duel amnistar just based on this one post. Not only is this the first Amni talks about EXAKT's situation at all, but it's to play devil's advocate in a scenario where I can't even comprehend what he thinks should be done, he just wants us to know that he disagrees!! I think that you shouldn't let someone's role-claim determine if you duel them or not?
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Jan 30, 2015 00:23
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A pro-scum cuddle chain would look like "clearly one of A or B is scum, if A flips town we need to kill B tomorrow", which is not at all what Amni was doing with that post.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:23
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Amnistar posted:Chain lynhes built off of innocence, I.E. Either You or You are scum, so we lynch one, then if you're town' we lynch the other are anti-town. But that's not the only way to establish scum, and it's not the most consistent way either? Especially with a claimed masonry in the game. I concede the point that I was hasty in calling out that particular point, again I was kinda scrambling to catch up.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:25
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Gamerofthegame posted:
I would highly, highly, highly recommend that you not take anything the Auspols do as similar to what we do. Yes, the strategy is the same, but the implementation is so different. You'll start seeing it soon, but yeah.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:25
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Amnistar posted:I think that you shouldn't let someone's role-claim determine if you duel them or not? I mean, basically, you have set up a situation where either the claim won't matter, and you'll duel them anyway, or the claim is one the town wants to keep alive, and thus secret, and so it being claimed negates the fact that you stop the duel.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:25
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apostateCourier posted:But that's not the only way to establish scum, and it's not the most consistent way either? Especially with a claimed masonry in the game. It might have changed but, in fact, that IS the most consistent way to find scum. They have knowledge from each other, such as the alignment of other players.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:26
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Amnistar posted:I think that you shouldn't let someone's role-claim determine if you duel them or not? But you're sure that EXAKT is town, yeah? Amnistar posted:I mean, basically, you have set up a situation where either the claim won't matter, and you'll duel them anyway, or the claim is one the town wants to keep alive, and thus secret, and so it being claimed negates the fact that you stop the duel. Or considering we have a bus-driver, he can claim whatever he wants to with impunity.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:27
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Amnistar posted:It might have changed but, in fact, that IS the most consistent way to find scum. They have knowledge from each other, such as the alignment of other players. I don't know, I just try to look through the game and find behavior that deliberately makes things muddy, or is rear end-covering, or outright contradictions and lies. It tends to work.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:28
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Ernie. posted:I would highly, highly, highly recommend that you not take anything the Auspols do as similar to what we do. Yes, the strategy is the same, but the implementation is so different. You'll start seeing it soon, but yeah. Ah, I forgot to mention he was scum in that, which was more of understanding.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:29
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Ernie. posted:But you're sure that EXAKT is town, yeah? I don't currently think EXAKT is scum, slightly different than being sure that he is town. And we apparently already have someone that needs protecting with the busdriver, in Quid.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:29
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Welp just skimmed through and half read a whole bunch of this poo poo to see if I got vigged and if it was even worth posting something, and I am still alive! I find it interesting how quick Somber and Gamer both dropped me as a badman simply because I was bus driven with Krell. Odd, but maybe since the only option is for me to be 3p I can't be the 3p kill? I don't know. Do people actually want me to go back and get my quickman breadcrumbs like Gamer asked, because I can, but breadcrumbs are mostly dumb and I only put them there because I like doing dumb things.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:58
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Rarity posted:I don't think gamer would know that rolefishing is bad considering how new he is. Hi, you mention this but don't have any mention of my "how is Gamer able to divine that Somber was implying my role was one-shot, how does he even know what one-shot is" argument from late last real-life-night. Can you comment on it now?
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Jan 30, 2015 00:59
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Quidnose posted:Hi, you mention this but don't have any mention of my "how is Gamer able to divine that Somber was implying my role was one-shot, how does he even know what one-shot is" argument from late last real-life-night. Can you comment on it now? Could be something his scum buddies have told him, could be he has a one-shot ability himself so he heard the term from that. I don't think it's necessarily a gotcha but worth looking at after his claim.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:03
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Quidnose I have absolutely nothing polite to say to you right now.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:19
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Quidnose posted:Hi, you mention this but don't have any mention of my "how is Gamer able to divine that Somber was implying my role was one-shot, how does he even know what one-shot is" argument from late last real-life-night. Can you comment on it now? i am talking about serial killers and third parties and this that and the next thing, do you really think various mafia 101 role basics is hard for me to grasp
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Jan 30, 2015 01:23
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Gamerofthegame posted:i am talking about serial killers and third parties and this that and the next thing, do you really think various mafia 101 role basics is hard for me to grasp Quid's comment was more about the idea of Rarity excusing your lack of knowledge about rolefishing while ignoring your knowledge of other things. Quid isn't implying you're dumb.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:26
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Nor was I even mentioning Somber so I don't know why he's chiming in to clear his name.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:21
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Quidnose posted:Nor was I even mentioning Somber so I don't know why he's chiming in to clear his name. I mean, you did in the post before where you commented on how quickly they dropped you.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:22
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Oh yeah true dat.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:32
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Ernie whoever you're dueling you should make a decision soon so we have time to double cuddle
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Jan 30, 2015 03:04
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Kumbamontu posted:Ernie whoever you're dueling you should make a decision soon so we have time to double cuddle
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Jan 30, 2015 03:06
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Kumbamontu posted:Ernie whoever you're dueling you should make a decision soon so we have time to double cuddle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEtm_Q2LK9g
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Jan 30, 2015 03:10
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Okay, EXAKT, claim. Sorry, all, was at the gym then work dinner.
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Jan 30, 2015 04:41
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Sure thing Ern! I am Doc Robot, and my role is Variable Backup. Once per game, I can take on the role and alignment of a player who has died. Right now, I'm town aligned, and have every intention of staying that way.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:07
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EXAKT Science posted:Sure thing Ern! This is great news, it means there are probably only two scum. Maybe we should keep EXAKT alive until Quidnose dies??
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Jan 30, 2015 05:11
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So is it okay if I go ahead and duel you, doc robot?
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Jan 30, 2015 05:12
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I'd prefer not, as I'd like to remain alive  But, if you must, I won't mind 
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Jan 30, 2015 05:14
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I'd honestly much rather you duel Amni, Gamer, or CPig as they're more likely to be scums, but if I lose the duel, then I hope the town look at all of them with a bit more scrutiny.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:31
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The flavor does check out and make sense.  Depends on if you think he's a liability or not, I guess?
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Jan 30, 2015 05:55
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Gamerofthegame posted:The flavor does check out and make sense. I think the problem is if we're in a 4 town vs 2 scum situation at end game, the town has lost no matter what it does if we keep EXAKT alive. Even if we kill a scum at that point, EXAKT can turn scum and we lose with the night-kill.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:59
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Ernie. posted:I think the problem is if we're in a 4 town vs 2 scum situation at end game, the town has lost no matter what it does if we keep EXAKT alive. Even if we kill a scum at that point, EXAKT can turn scum and we lose with the night-kill. I can also turn into a town power role if we lose one, or make the scum waste a night kill on me, giving the town PRs an extra night action.
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Jan 30, 2015 06:04
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Ernie do you leave the game if you win your duel? I'm assuming winning it is at least part of your win condition.
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Jan 30, 2015 06:13
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EXAKT Science posted:Ernie do you leave the game if you win your duel? I'm assuming winning it is at least part of your win condition. I know it's hard to believe considering the way I'm playing it, but I'm actually town. I just have to eliminate all threats.
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Jan 30, 2015 06:15
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Ernie. posted:I know it's hard to believe considering the way I'm playing it, but I'm actually town. I just have to eliminate all threats. It is hard to believe, and I'm not sure I entirely do. Part of it is the way you've been acting, but, despite EP's insistence that flavor arguments are very bad in this game, my guess at your flavor implies that you're 3P. However, that said, it wouldn't be inconceivable for (my guess at) your flavor to be aligned with us robot masters, so i really don't know. WHY CAN'T I EVER TRUST THE PEOPLE I LOVE??
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Jan 30, 2015 06:38
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing, EXAKT, because Ernie has been all too excited to jump at people he thinks he has an easy chance at dueling to the death. He also dismissed it completely when I asked him about it.
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Jan 30, 2015 07:05
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Ernie. posted:This is great news, it means there are probably only two scum. Ernie. posted:So is it okay if I go ahead and duel you, doc robot? I don't like either of these posts. What does EXAKT's claim have to do with the number of scum? If you believe him then why would you duel him?
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Jan 30, 2015 07:29
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I find this all very suspicious. I'm going to do some thinking out loud here. Feel free to ignore. Krell's flip has already shown the possibility of 3P possessing unusual victory conditions. That said, Krell's role also was a pro-town one, albeit one with the possibility of some anti-town vendetta if things go wrong. The important part, though, is that it's entirely possible that Ernie's wincon is distinct from that of the normal town wincon. Exakt's role sounds a bit too complex to be easily manufactured, on the other hand, he's had plenty of time to discuss things with hypothetical scum buddies to come up with something that is complex enough to be credible. Ernie likely could have begun the duel much earlier in the day, and gotten some serious traction due to the momentum against Exakt, but he delayed. But yet, if Ernie had begun the duel before Exakt's claim, that would have been highly scummy. And yet, with no duel in place, what he's actually managed to achieve is some role fishing, albeit for a role that the scum is not likely to prioritize first. So, I have to look at the posts, the tenor and the tone and the content. Ernie. posted:This is great news, it means there are probably only two scum. Ernie. posted:I think the problem is if we're in a 4 town vs 2 scum situation at end game, the town has lost no matter what it does if we keep EXAKT alive. Even if we kill a scum at that point, EXAKT can turn scum and we lose with the night-kill. I think Ernie is genuinely trying to think through the game, here, to try and piece together the setup repercussions of Exakt's role, but I can see this as clear obfuscation to throw off the town. However, I find it highly unlikely that Ernie is actually scum or has access to the number of scum in the game, as it is more likely that Ernie is some form of 3P. EXAKT Science posted:I'd honestly much rather you duel Amni, Gamer, or CPig as they're more likely to be scums, but if I lose the duel, then I hope the town look at all of them with a bit more scrutiny. And this post from Exakt seems very genuine to me as well. Setting up a list of people to look at seems like something that town would do, and there's a genuine sense of willing surrender around the rest of Exakt's posts. In conclusion, I have to go with my gut and my gut says that Exakt is being earnest about his role, though I'm still less sure about Ernie.
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Jan 30, 2015 07:54
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You guys are over thinking this, Ernie is town.
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Jan 30, 2015 07:58
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CapitalistPig posted:You guys are over thinking this, Ernie is town. Me? Over thinking things? That's impossible! You're probably right though.
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Jan 30, 2015 08:02
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