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GO I'd rather take my chances at making Ishamal mad than not murdering the gently caress out of this fancy pansy little-too-fresh-for-my-tastes-sushi dude who made the mistake of drawing our attention. MURDER HIM
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Feb 4, 2015 21:17
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Pladdicus posted:I see no indication it was the Melachim, no whif of citrus, or blue text. No sign of any they've okayed our powers, or are ven aware of the situation. But we weren't asked to divine their will, we were asked not to use our powers without permission. It was black text, not blue. I don't think that makes a difference since it's also been gold and orange and other things as well. Also, citrus only occurs when someone non-divine tries to read our mind, so that doesn't apply.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:18
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GO forth and slay the unclean ones Enkidel. Even if we get smote later, it is worth it to potentially save Taanach and the lives of thousands. These beasts must be driven forth from our lands, for this is the land of Zepa and his seed, now and forever.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:18
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B Make it rain (pointy death). I think we're better off holding the wall until the turtles get close enough to do something about. Hopefully the weakening thunder means Rimush is kicking that demon's poo poo in.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:19
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GO
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Feb 4, 2015 21:19
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As an aside from Arrow Timing, and just talking about Plan Ark vs Plan Snipe, Plan Ark straight up doesn't match up in terms of tactical benefit, anyhow. We could up morale to some degree, and we could take out a lot of chaff, but that's all they are - chaff. Useless on their own and without a guiding intelligence making sure they go where they're needed. We could mash up the footsoldiers all day long, and it won't make much difference until we get to the general - which we won't, if we're making our way through the chaff. The general, though? He's both the guiding intelligence AND the morale glue keeping the fish together. We KNOW they can be scared and worried. Taking out their general with an impossible kill shot would damage the army far more than what we could pull off with our bare hands by making the fish army that much stupider, and by weakening the morale that much more. Vitally, it's also FAST - it'll give the fish army no time to adjust or react before the deed is done, unlike a personal charge which could cause some local shock before the rest of the army adjusts. If nothing else, snipe first, THEN charge. Let the waves of dismay wash over the army at the loss of their leader, and THEN smash forwards while they're all feeling uncertain and worried. That's how you get the most bang for your buck. There's really no reason to charge RIGHT NOW, no real vulnerability to take advantage of, and charging at any time later on is at least as good as charging now. So let's CREATE a vulnerability, and THEN exploit it.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:19
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Pladdicus. I get that we wanna keep our word, but this is an extreme situation, and the Melachim weren't dead set on keeping us to that thing in these kind of htings: Enkidel: Are these abilities truly so unbalanced or dangerous that I can not risk using them even during times of such utter need and desperation like the events at Ibleam? Ishamal says "It is not safe for you to use them. Ibleam was an extreme situation. They would wish to consult further before deciding if you could do so. It is not impossible." Obviously, it's not safe. Obviously, we risk that the Melachim might still think we used it too soon. But they left some leeway in extreme situations. And this is an extreme situation. If these fish weren't a serious, horrible threat, the King and his buddies would have turned them into minced meat. And the fact that El seems to give us a one time only boost suggests that even El is on board with pulling out all the stops on this one.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:20
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Task Manager posted:The level of smugness ITT is reaching critical mass (when "You're voting wrong LOL" starts getting thrown around every other post it makes actually debating in this thread unbearbale) and ELE, so I'm out til the next vote. I've said my piece on the topic. Both sides have solid reasoning.  ELE brother. There Bias Two posted:It was black text, not blue. I don't think that makes a difference since it's also been gold and orange and other things as well. Also, citrus only occurs when someone non-divine tries to read our mind, so that doesn't apply. Eh well whatever, it's usually special. And also didn't we smell Citrus when approaching the Melachim? Seems like it's relevant. The drink he gave us also smelled like it. That smell seems like it's tied to Melachim poo poo. Or a specific Melachim (Ishamal?) and we smell it when they read our mind because Melachim poo poo is protecting us. As for it's a deperate situation, maybe yeah. But we always use that excuse to use our powers at the drop of a hat, and I don't think this is the true trial to spend our powers on. There's much worse to come, of that I'm certain. You think the storm will break on Tanaach and Kavodel and end? or Zepath? Save for times of trouble, I'm not sure this is our win condition right now.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:20
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Also I want to point out that these fishmen are organized, and fish like the one we can snipe are the ones organizing. We literally saw him issuing commands to his unit or whatever the fish equivalent to that is. His school?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:20
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Even if you don't normally read Tomn post read this Tomn post.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:21
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Pladdicus posted:
It is worth noting we were in Ishamal's grove, of various citrus fruit trees.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:22
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SerSpook posted:It is worth noting we were in Ishamal's grove, of various citrus fruit trees. WELL WHATEVER.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:22
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Pladdicus posted:WELL WHATEVER. Also we don't get the citrus smell with Melachim in general. Mainly with Ishamal associated things? eta: Also, Ishamal's mind protection literally takes the form of a grove of citrus trees, if Snarls Quest has any relevance to that.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:23
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2.O
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Feb 4, 2015 21:23
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All things considered I am changing my vote from AO to GO.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:23
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Fishmen GO home! We can apologize later, but right now there's a city to save.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:24
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SerSpook posted:Also we don't get the citrus smell with Melachim in general. Mainly with Ishamal associated things? Okay! Well my point was I don't think we've got any real indication that it's okay to use our powers, we don't even know what's going on so it seems hella unlikely that this was an invitation to experiment or use powers. Like, if they knew this was going on would Ishamal still not show up or intervene? I mean, he stepped in when we hosed up with fishgod powers this seems marginally more dire.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:25
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Fine. Tomn of all people swayed me. Also lets be honest if we survive this I'm heading straight to a mountain, Fare's or Mt. Har. LETS GO GO GO
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Feb 4, 2015 21:26
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Tomn posted:As an aside from Arrow Timing, and just talking about Plan Ark vs Plan Snipe, Plan Ark straight up doesn't match up in terms of tactical benefit, anyhow. We could up morale to some degree, and we could take out a lot of chaff, but that's all they are - chaff. Useless on their own and without a guiding intelligence making sure they go where they're needed. We could mash up the footsoldiers all day long, and it won't make much difference until we get to the general - which we won't, if we're making our way through the chaff. You're forgetting that there are several hundred people who would be watching us be an utter badass. Remember what happened the last time we did that? Just the balls watching us made us leap to the strength of 50 men. Imagine what might happen if we go down there and start shield punching fishmen into sushi. Soylent Pudding posted:B[Make it rain (pointy death). One would hope! We'll know if the storm starts coming closer who is winning. Ouroborus fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 21:26
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For those waiting for explicit permission, please remember that for once we're not being watched, and Mt. Har is acting all kinds of strange. If there is indeed an Ur-wide coordinated attack underway, it's entirely plausible that the Melachim have their hands full and are too busy holding off greater demons or something to wander back over to us and give direct personal permission.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:27
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Diogines posted:You know that [???] is expended involuntarily to mend wounds and protect your flesh to a degree. If you... experimented, perhaps you could use [???] to fuel yourself and get there in two days and still fight? You don't know how but from years of Ishamal's exercises and your own experiences you can make an educated guess? Diogines posted:You run. So about that promise you're worried about breaking... (Uh-oh, looks like we already used experimental gifted knowledge to aide Tenaach) Cornuto fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 21:27
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Pladdicus posted:Okay! Well my point was I don't think we've got any real indication that it's okay to use our powers, we don't even know what's going on so it seems hella unlikely that this was an invitation to experiment or use powers. Like, if they knew this was going on would Ishamal still not show up or intervene? I mean, he stepped in when we hosed up with fishgod powers this seems marginally more dire. Ishamal is an old dude and almost never intervenes. Such as in Ibleam, which was already stated to be a situation where this type of permission is not impossible (and we even have infinitely refilling [???] for that battle, so probably what we did was fine there--the Melachim Ishamal hangs with even complimented us for what we did in Ibleam!) Or he is helping Tudiya with a sudden invasion of demons from beneath Zepath itself.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:28
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Ouroborus posted:You're forgetting that there are several hundred people who would be watching us be an utter badass. Remember what happened the last time we did that? Just the balls watching us made us leap to the strength of 50 men. Imagine what might happen if we go down there and start shield punching fishmen into sushi. Yeah, but they'll probably kill us if we get swarmed, which I think would have the opposite effect on anyone watching.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:28
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2.M
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Feb 4, 2015 21:29
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Absum fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 21:29
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L: Plan Arkanomen, M WE ARE NOT KILLING FAST ENOUGH. WE MUST KILL MORE AND MORE
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Feb 4, 2015 21:30
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Diogines posted:The mere thought of that meter filling or perhaps emptying entirely causes a pang of terrible dread to strike deep at your heart. Something terrible will happen. A Rich White Man made an excellent point highlighting this a minute ago. If we decide not to use our abilities the whole battle, we run the risk of our meter overflowing once we start really getting into things. That would be very dangerous. Even if you don't want to use abilities, it would therefore probably be wise NOT to vote M so we can leave our options open in case this becomes an issue.  Also, please enjoy these shar peis.  Namaste. The following as been sponsored by Team Don't Decide Strategy for the Whole Battle Before It's Started and Viewers Like You
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Feb 4, 2015 21:32
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Ouroborus posted:You're forgetting that there are several hundred people who would be watching us be an utter badass. Remember what happened the last time we did that? Just the balls watching us made us leap to the strength of 50 men. Imagine what might happen if we go down there and start shield punching fishmen into sushi. This...would be unwise. Diogines posted:The mere thought of that meter filling or perhaps emptying entirely causes a pang of terrible dread to strike deep at your heart. Something terrible will happen. Diogines posted:158 of 160. Come to think of it, that line is even more of a suggestion that we should - even NEED to spend our powers - if filling that bar is going to cause bad poo poo to happen, doing too much badass stuff without emptying it first could cause us to, I dunno, go thermonuclear or something. By the way, it's a bit metagamey, but I'll note Option 2 only got added in later, after people started bringing up the promise. This MAY suggest that Diog hadn't expected people to consider the promise to be binding under the circumstances until he realized some people did in fact think so. paragon1 posted:WE ARE NOT KILLING FAST ENOUGH. At least try a few normal arrows on the general first before charging. What would you lose? What opportunity would slip away if you waited?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:32
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Ouroborus posted:You're forgetting that there are several hundred people who would be watching us be an utter badass. Remember what happened the last time we did that? Just the balls watching us made us leap to the strength of 50 men. Imagine what might happen if we go down there and start shield punching fishmen into sushi. This is before our well got all blown out by Ish. Last time I let Ish blow out our well, let-me-tell-you!
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Feb 4, 2015 21:34
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Tomn posted:This...would be unwise. we do the entire charge holding our breath
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Feb 4, 2015 21:36
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As an aside, I kinda wonder how this vote is going to go if M wins, but G is the most popular option. G would be nulled out by default since it incorporates a forbidden ability, so do we end up firing an unassisted bronze arrow instead? Or do we default to what is according to an eyeball count the second-most popular option, Plan Ark? Which, I can't speak for anyone else, but as someone voting to snipe the general I would be REALLY strongly against doing that until we've at least thrown a few normal arrows the general's way. Say, Diog, do we still feel like something terrible will happen if the well is filled?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:38
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the_steve posted:I would say that I cannot loving believe people are giving Ishamal rank over our LITERAL GOD FIGURE. We have daddy issues. 
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Feb 4, 2015 21:40
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GO! Were it not for the Modifications that were made to us and the warning what would happen if we tried to replicate the effect it seems one of Melachim factions has given us the go ahead to use the powers to prevent Tanaach from falling. The fact that we are not being watched and that Mt. Har is pulsing is giving me the impression most of the Melachim have their hands full and should we and Mt. Har survive we have some serious explaining to do. There is also the fact that burning [???] will make us us weaker so for those 2 reasons I'm voting a one time [???] expenditure. Also, the killing or severely injuring one if their leaders makes me feel it is [???] well spent. Also charging their leader who is probably Blighty and gettings swarmed by his underlings does not seem to be the wisest choise. We don't know enough about his strength to know it will be a quick kill and the longer it takes the more the chance increases of us dying out there. gnarl fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 21:40
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bonus hole boy posted:we do the entire charge holding our breath Also GO
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Feb 4, 2015 21:41
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I don't know yet what happens if using arrow time wins vote 1 but not vote 2. Probably a revote tonight? Plan Arkanomen is ludicrously dangerous. I am not going to say precisely how dangerous, just, ludicrously. If you think it is a good idea you either: A. Want to die OR B. Earnestly believe that you have underestimated your abilities and overestimated the foe in previous assessments of both OR C. Believe that the creator of the universe and/or Melachim will divinely intervene. The Capybaras are tired of giving descriptions of your capabilities, albeit not always detailed ones and them then being entirely ignored, forcing them to respond to a series of questions where they repeat the information again. The Cabyaras are requesting that you please jump off the wall and charge an army on your own so they don't have to answer ANY questions ever again and can go back to swimming lazily and grooming each other. Diog has no thoughts on the issue except do you want dragongame or magegame next? You are standing next to a person who has good odds of maybe fighting off a typical minotaur army on his own, perhaps not that I suppose, but probably at least killing a few hundred personally and he has not engaged in melee yet. Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:QUESTION: how difficult of a shot is B? Just aiming for his chest with normal arrows. Absum posted:Diog, what are the odds of hitting him with a normal arrow using arrow-time (you generally don't give odds but you gave some for the bronze arrows so)? Tsyni posted:Diog, I just want to clarify something. If M gets 21% of the vote, does that mean that G needs 80% of the vote to pass? If 21% of goons vote for M, the combined other options can't reach 80%, so the policy stands. falcon2424 posted:Also M. Some people are voting G-M as a joke. That is fine. All votes count. If you voted G-M and did not mean it as a joke, reread #2. M means no arrow-time. Diogines fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 21:42
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Ouroborus posted:You're forgetting that there are several hundred people who would be watching us be an utter badass. Remember what happened the last time we did that? Just the balls watching us made us leap to the strength of 50 men. Imagine what might happen if we go down there and start shield punching fishmen into sushi. I'm going to keep reiterating this because its important: you seem to be forgetting that if ??? goes up much further, terrible things will happen.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:45
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2. M get hosed fun havers
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Feb 4, 2015 21:45
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voting for magegame after our insanely sicknasty death, because goons have a great track record with dealing with unknowable cosmic powers
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Feb 4, 2015 21:46
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Diog are you referring to the 80% thing when you say policy? If so you are contradicting yourself with option M.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:46
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Angela Christine posted:We have Fixed that for you. Razakai posted:voting for magegame after our insanely sicknasty death, because goons have a great track record with dealing with unknowable cosmic powers Merlin Analogue: I will teach you magic, but only if you swear to never ever use magic, EVER! You have spontaneously learned Magic Missile, Bitchin' Fireball, and Smite Fucker. You have been surrounded by Fuckers! Do you use magic?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:46
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