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Improbable Lobster posted:i feel like there's a certain amount of learned behavior when it comes to that kind of distanced/banal evil tbh This is true, and probably is totally the case with Ross. By the end of his tenure as DPR I would definitely call him a bad person. But I think it's an iterative thing, the deeper a person gets, the easier it becomes. It takes only one mistake to get on the road of illegal behaviour. It's like young kids who join biker gangs after trying meth. Once they get started, I bet a lot of them feel like they don't really have the option to stop. One bad decision leads them to keep making more, which makes it even less likely they can find a way out. although, I guess I am omitting the choice Ross could've made to just step away from it all. Just say gently caress it and bail since he wasn't tied to it by name or anything. But from his perspective though that would be giving up on a literal million dollar empire. A lot of people have killed for less than that. He didn't jump straight to hitmen either, as I recall the first guy extorted him a bunch before he finally decided to try something to deal with it. Once he did it once, must get easier in his head. He was too greedy to walk away and too naive and dumb to never get involved in the first place. I'd really like to believe that I wouldn't be willing to take that step if things somehow contrived to have me in a similar situation, but there have been enough examples of people getting power and doing things no one would've thought them capable of for me to say with certainty. Humans aren't nearly as internally consistent or rational as we pretend we are. It's exactly why there needs to be checks and limits on any position of power. The temptation to abuse it, like Ross did, is going to be too much for a lot of people, so the best bet is to never let the opportunity present itself. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 08:00
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breaking bad was based on a true story that hadn't happened yet
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Feb 5, 2015 08:02
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also Susie has one of those patreon thingies and I guess for $50 I can get a sketch of tater done?!?
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Feb 5, 2015 08:03
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:This is true, and probably is totally the case with Ross. By the end of his tenure as DPR I would definitely call him a bad person. But I think it's an iterative thing, the deeper a person gets, the easier it becomes. Linguica fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 08:07
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please don't defend druglords, makes me have nausea
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Feb 5, 2015 08:09
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He can be and is a bad person who did terrible things and still not deserve to be in the United States prison system for ever because literally no human being deserves that. That's an argument for a sane humane and rehabilitative justice system though not for suspension of judgement. I get that people can end at seriously bad decisions through small steps compounding a bad situation, the lack of redress in black markets outside of violence etc etc etc but dispassionately soliciting murders for hire including innocent bystanders I'm quite happy to call deviant and sociopathic behaviour
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Feb 5, 2015 08:11
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the american prison system is really bad but relative to other people who go to prison he deserves it more than most
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Feb 5, 2015 08:12
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Ayn Randi posted:He can be and is a bad person who did terrible things and still not deserve to be in the United States prison system for ever because literally no human being deserves that. That's an argument for a sane humane and rehabilitative justice system though not for suspension of judgement. I get that people can end at seriously bad decisions through small steps compounding a bad situation, the lack of redress in black markets outside of violence etc etc etc but dispassionately soliciting murders for hire including innocent bystanders I'm quite happy to call deviant and sociopathic behaviour there really isn't anything such as sociopathy rehab fwiw
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Feb 5, 2015 08:14
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Trig Discipline posted:i've yosposted on a plane
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Feb 5, 2015 08:15
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ruby idiot railed posted:there really isn't anything such as sociopathy rehab fwiw US prisons could be less lovely and less cruel, though Jesus, that may be the least controversial opinion I have ever typed on the Internet. More people would probably disagree with "kittens are cute"
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Feb 5, 2015 08:18
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Linguica posted:I don't... are you defending DPR? Are you saying because he wasn't born a Bad Person that we should have some empathy for him? Of course we should have empathy for him as a human being, just like we should have it for any person. That's all I'm saying really. I am not taking delight in the thought of him going to max security prison. The schadenfreude I have at him getting caught is mitigated by the punishment he is in for being really hosed up. Linguica posted:But people are defined by the choices they make, and Ulbricht chose to facilitate buying and selling ricin, and take a cut of the action, and then pay to try and have people killed. This is not even a difficult case. He literally ran a billion dollar drug empire and was willing to resort to murder to keep it going. Yup I agree with this too. What I'm saying is I don't think him being a drug lord means he couldn't also be a good friend, neighbour, or even son (the whole mom sold her house thing notwithstanding  ). Like it wasn't an act or facade, he could be both, and it doesn't take a totally hosed up person to do bad things like this. I think a lot of people would be capable of terrible poo poo with the right incentives, and once his dumb little internet blackmarket idea ended up being worth literally millions, it doesn't surprise me at all that a guy who otherwise is perfectly regular is willing to cross those lines. I don't think DPR started with the idea his market would get this huge, not really. Maybe as a pipe dream. I think once it started really jumping, the lure of the easy money it promised sucked him, and he just started losing touch with the consequences of what he was doing. The promise of millions can make people do really hosed up things. I would say even say it takes an exceptional kind of person to not give into that kind of lure, the best choice for most people simply never putting themselves in that kind of situation. His biggest mistake was getting started on all this, because he clearly didn't have the moral fortitude to resist the temptation of the money he was making once it started taking off.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:22
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he thought it would be big enough that keeping a diary to one day be used to publish a book was a good idea
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Feb 5, 2015 08:24
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Ayn Randi posted:He can be and is a bad person who did terrible things and still not deserve to be in the United States prison system for ever because literally no human being deserves that. That's an argument for a sane humane and rehabilitative justice system though not for suspension of judgement. I get that people can end at seriously bad decisions through small steps compounding a bad situation, the lack of redress in black markets outside of violence etc etc etc but dispassionately soliciting murders for hire including innocent bystanders I'm quite happy to call deviant and sociopathic behaviour I guess my problem with labeling it sociopathic is that it seems to denote pre-existing mental abberation rather than a learned and developed conditions brought on by the experience and situation he put himself in. If you want me to concede that he is a sociopath now, then yeah I am good with that description, but I don't think he started out his drug kingpin career with that kind of edge, and had he been hit with a roadblock like a blackmailer before his project was worth millions, I think there would've been a much better chance he would've just walked away. Money/power, especially holding on to it once you have it, make people into sociopaths, is my perspective on it.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:27
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:
quote:In 2011, I am creating a year of prosperity and power beyond what I have ever experienced. Silk Road is going to become a phenomenon and at least one person will tell me about it, unknowing that I was its creator. Not to mention he kept a diary specifically because he thought people would want to write books about him someday
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Feb 5, 2015 08:27
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Improbable Lobster posted:he thought it would be big enough that keeping a diary to one day be used to publish a book was a good idea he also made a proclamation before this all started that he would be a billionaire by 2014
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Feb 5, 2015 08:27
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text editor posted:Not to mention he kept a diary specifically because he thought people would want to write books about him someday I want a book about Silk Road. 
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Feb 5, 2015 08:28
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:I guess my problem with labeling it sociopathic is that it seems to denote pre-existing mental abberation rather than a learned and developed conditions brought on by the experience and situation he put himself in. If you want me to concede that he is a sociopath now, then yeah I am good with that description, but I don't think he started out his drug kingpin career with that kind of edge, and had he been hit with a roadblock like a blackmailer before his project was worth millions, I think there would've been a much better chance he would've just walked away. he was a libertarian before he started silk road
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Feb 5, 2015 08:28
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Improbable Lobster posted:he thought it would be big enough that keeping a diary to one day be used to publish a book was a good idea yeah that sounds more like deluded Libertarianism/bitcoiner cult delusions to me, they all talk about how they are going to be rich and huge and are changing the world and making history etc. Ross was just a guy with enough attention span to actually move beyond the wiki. Actually I bet Libertarianism and bitcoin probably have a pretty detrimental effect on the morality of people who get hooked into it, the constant promise of wealth and riches as long as you buy more I'm sure feeds into the kind of thinking that lead to Ross's attempted murders. Anyeay I've posted too much so I'm gonna leave it at that, I'm sure people will disagree, this is just how it's coming off to me.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:32
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I'm more inclined to think that a lack of morals and general selfishness and shortsighted greed draws people to libertarianism rather than the converse
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Feb 5, 2015 08:33
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:yeah that sounds more like deluded Libertarianism/bitcoiner cult delusions to me, they all talk about how they are going to be rich and huge and are changing the world and making history etc. Ross was just a guy with enough attention span to actually move beyond the wiki. libertarianism/objectivism is entirely sold on the idea that everyone you don't like will be poor and living terrible lives at best while you get to live the high life
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Feb 5, 2015 08:34
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SynthOrange posted:I want a book about Silk Road. same, and Sarah Jeong should write it
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Feb 5, 2015 08:35
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Elysiume posted:I'm more inclined to think that a lack of morals and general selfishness and shortsighted greed draws people to libertarianism rather than the converse chiken and egg thing, our experiences inform our beliefs, and our choices lead to our experiences. A kid getting exposed to Ayn Rand at the wrong point in their youth can gently caress them up for life. But yeah, Ross was probably too far gone by the time he thought up SR. So fine, he's a bad dude 
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Feb 5, 2015 08:42
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:So fine, he's a bad dude yee
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Feb 5, 2015 08:43
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ruby idiot railed posted:you realize you're all broken people tho right, like you (as a profession) willfully submerge yourself in that on a day to day basis Things I had to put up with today as a Journalist -lovely coffee at the office -listener complaints over why we're too soft on Obama -attempted homicide at a nail salon -3 person fatal car accident -having to pay attention to Mark Levin for more than 2 minutes -'is Nguyen pronounced Nh-gwen or just just Gwen?'
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Feb 5, 2015 08:43
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restingwitchface posted:hi guys edit: I am an idiot. computer toucher fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 08:53
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wow, it took almost 9 hours to get to creepy lassiez fair meets kate beacon 2.0 territory we can extrapolate from this to determine how long until lowtax closes yospos because the secret service is investigating more death threats
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Feb 5, 2015 09:00
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:I guess my problem with labeling it sociopathic is that it seems to denote pre-existing mental abberation rather than a learned and developed conditions brought on by the experience and situation he put himself in. If you want me to concede that he is a sociopath now, then yeah I am good with that description, but I don't think he started out his drug kingpin career with that kind of edge, and had he been hit with a roadblock like a blackmailer before his project was worth millions, I think there would've been a much better chance he would've just walked away. Well for sure I mean I believe it's been demonstrated that simply being in a position of power and wealth can cause people to act more immorally, and outside of legit serious mental illness people aren't just born irredeemably bad. I guess I'm just saying we can separate empathy and understanding for how a person comes to this end without necessitating reducing the imperative to constrain and where possible correct the behaviours. He ought not to be dehumanised for what could ultimately be seen as a very human string of decisions and ideally we shouldn't revel in his punishment but he still needs to be kept safely apart i guess. I struggled with how to phrase this cos holy poo poo crime and punishment is just a massively complicated mess of grey that i dont think any society to date has really worked out. But someone who's demonstrated total unwillingness or inability to abide by the not onerous restriction of not trying to kill other people shouldnt be running free
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Feb 5, 2015 09:05
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rename yospos to lf
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Feb 5, 2015 09:06
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faaaaaaaaaaaart
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Feb 5, 2015 09:06
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Celexi posted:rename yospos to lf make lf a subforum of byob
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Feb 5, 2015 09:07
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kill everyone
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Feb 5, 2015 09:08
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Celexi posted:rename yospos to lf lassiez fair.exe
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Feb 5, 2015 09:08
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laptop fair
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Feb 5, 2015 09:08
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let's faire
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Feb 5, 2015 09:13
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Your Legal System is a Piece Of poo poo
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Feb 5, 2015 09:15
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I am feeling uncomfortable with these lf posters around
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Feb 5, 2015 09:16
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the last libertarian I talked to about politics said that given the choice between: 1. paying less money for healthcare and having poor people receive it for free 2. paying more money for healthcare and not having poor people receive it for free that, if he received equal or worse healthcare for option #2, he would still choose it he would pay more for worse healthcare so that poors get hosed over. also he thought 9-11 was a conspiracy and thought women were biologically stupider than men and was racist, all in all an awful guy. libertarians are trash
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Feb 5, 2015 09:16
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what are the chances RU/DPR has some incriminating evidence about suppliers, or that he lost a lot of someone's money (though not the real hells angels', lol)? all of the sudden, the world knows his name and where he'll be for the next 30 years. theres plenty of crazy irl stuff to the trial without crazy speculation, but still i wonder if anyone wants him dead. Ayn Randi posted:should have bought DPR approved iocaine powder haha did anyone say this one yet?
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Feb 5, 2015 09:17
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Celexi posted:rename yospos to lf laughable firmware
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Feb 5, 2015 09:20
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:I guess my problem with labeling it sociopathic is that it seems to denote pre-existing mental abberation rather than a learned and developed conditions brought on by the experience and situation he put himself in. If you want me to concede that he is a sociopath now, then yeah I am good with that description, but I don't think he started out his drug kingpin career with that kind of edge, and had he been hit with a roadblock like a blackmailer before his project was worth millions, I think there would've been a much better chance he would've just walked away. you might want to read up on the hare model and the pcl-r assessment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist big gently caress off tl;dr is that psychopathy isn't quantified on a single axis, dpr could be a bit narcissistic (and really, who isn't) but otherwise socially functional all the while hiding some really nasty antisocial behavior, like the whole facilitating mail order heroine thing computer toucher posted:WILL YOU BE MY TIMID ASIAN WIFE? it took 9 pages, better than i expected 
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Feb 5, 2015 09:21
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