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siggy2021 posted:I think the only way to interact with upper management is to be confrontational, and I want to make sure I'm waving the right law in their face when I do it.
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Feb 7, 2015 04:21
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twodot posted:That feels kind of weird to me (as an American). What constitutes an argument? We have a scenario: Why would the lawyer Clair want to implicate anyone? It isn't a defense lawyers job to find another party who might have done it.
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Feb 7, 2015 23:28
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jassi007 posted:Why would the lawyer Clair want to implicate anyone? It isn't a defense lawyers job to find another party who might have done it.
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Feb 7, 2015 23:32
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twodot posted:"wants to implicate Bob's husband David to avoid a conviction for Alice" She wants to avoid a conviction for Alice. This may or may not be a smart, ethical, or moral way to do this, yet this is what Clair wants to do. What are her legally permissible strategies in Canada? An argument that someone else killed Bob would be pretty ineffective if you had no evidence to present to support that theory of the case. And if you do have evidence that someone else committed the crime, maybe your own client's confession is not to be believed.
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Feb 8, 2015 00:49
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blarzgh posted:An argument that someone else killed Bob would be pretty ineffective if you had no evidence to present to support that theory of the case.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:30
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twodot posted:"wants to implicate Bob's husband David to avoid a conviction for Alice" She wants to avoid a conviction for Alice. This may or may not be a smart, ethical, or moral way to do this, yet this is what Clair wants to do. What are her legally permissible strategies in Canada? If she has actual evidence someone else killed the victim than her client, submit it? If she is lying, I'm no expert on Canadian law, but I'd hazard a guess perjury is a thing there too. So making poo poo up to try to get her client off the hook is not legally permissible.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:37
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jassi007 posted:If she has actual evidence someone else killed the victim than her client, submit it? If she is lying, I'm no expert on Canadian law, but I'd hazard a guess perjury is a thing there too. So making poo poo up to try to get her client off the hook is not legally permissible.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:50
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twodot posted:Would this same reasoning apply to suborning perjury in the US? "My client told me one thing I believe they will say another thing on the stand, I have conflicting evidence regarding either statement, therefore I don't know my client will perjure themselves, so I'm in the clear" This part is in response to another post: Evidence and Argument are two different things. Making a bad faith argument is not the same as presenting false evidence. Arguing that someone else killed Bob is not the same as giving false testimony that Tupac killed Bob in a hotel lobby. The first is possibly sanctionable, but not perjury or suborning perjury, the second is perjury. To suborn perjury (as an attorney) in Texas, you have to act with the intent to aid, assist, or promote the giving of the false testimony. If my client says, "I'm going to lie my loving rear end off when I get on the stand" I can't put him on. If he says, "Oh yeah, I'll tell the truth" and then he gets up there and lies his rear end off, I have no duty to tell everyone that he just lied. In fact, in subordination to my duty to zealously represent him, I likely have a duty not to tattle on him. As far as your specific comment, above: I think you're probably in the clear, depending on your tolerance for risk. The problem with these philosophical-type questions is that they get answered in real world fact situations, by people you've never met and can't predict. There is no vacuum for you to ask the disciplinary committee to view your actions in. You want a more interesting philosophical question? A criminal defendant has the [constitutional?] right to take the stand in his own defense; you have a legal and ethical responsibility not to call him if you know he intends to commit perjury. He says, "Put me on the stand; I know my rights." What do you do, hot shot?
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Feb 8, 2015 03:20
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blarzgh posted:What do you do, hot shot? Switch specialties and become a traffic ticket lawyer?
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Feb 8, 2015 03:26
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Bad Munki posted:Switch specialties and become a traffic ticket lawyer? Agreed.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:43
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blarzgh posted:This part is in response to another post: Evidence and Argument are two different things. Making a bad faith argument is not the same as presenting false evidence. Arguing that someone else killed Bob is not the same as giving false testimony that Tupac killed Bob in a hotel lobby. The first is possibly sanctionable, but not perjury or suborning perjury, the second is perjury. I already answered this. You have to put him on, because he has a constitutional right to testify that your ethical duties don't outweigh. You also can't ask him a question if you know it will elicit false testimony. So, if you know that's going to happen, ask him to testify narratively.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:54
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UK answer- you are professionally embarrassed and must withdraw from the case.
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Feb 8, 2015 10:42
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Kalman posted:So, if you know that's going to happen, ask him to testify narratively. Is this something that the prosecution can bring up to a jury? "He's testifying narratively, obviously his lawyer could not rely on him to tell the truth, obviously he's lying to you." ?
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Feb 8, 2015 11:06
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Alchenar posted:UK answer- you are professionally embarrassed and must withdraw from the case. US answer: "Motion to withdraw denied."
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Feb 8, 2015 14:40
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Hawkgirl posted:Is this something that the prosecution can bring up to a jury? "He's testifying narratively, obviously his lawyer could not rely on him to tell the truth, obviously he's lying to you." ? I don't think so (since narrative testimony is always open as an option, it could be truthful, and the prosecutor is himself being somewhat unethical in saying "he must be lying"), but jurors are only dumb in certain ways - if you're testifying in a completely different format, they're going to notice it's different and draw implications about trusting it from the difference alone. In practice it doesn't matter because defense attorneys don't find out if you're guilty and even the ones who do usually just call you up for interrogatory testimony regardless of the possibility of you lying (per a survey of defense attorneys I read a while ago.)
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Feb 8, 2015 19:27
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I obviously can't speak for any other jurisdiction but my rules of professional conduct are very clear on this point so I'll quote them verbatim. quote:Duty as Defence Counsel - When defending an accused person, a lawyer's duty is to protect the client as far as possible from being convicted, except by a tribunal of competent jurisdiction and upon legal evidence sufficient to support a conviction for the offence with which the client is charged. Accordingly, and notwithstanding the lawyer's private opinion on credibility or the merits, a lawyer may properly rely on any evidence or defences, including so-called technicalities, not known to be false or fraudulent This is why defence counsel don't elicit admissions from their clients. If they don't want to plead guilty that's the end of it. My understanding of the rules with respect to perjured testimony is also, as I understand it, that if the witness begins testifying and I know the testimony is false I am required to sit down and ask no further questions. I then file an application to withdraw due to a breakdown in the solicitor-client relationship. That all being said, everyone is right that the odds of a lawyer being caught leading false testimony are really low. You'd have to know that your client is lying rather than just giving a different version of events. But, you only have to be caught doing it once for it to ruin your career. I don't think that's a risk worth taking for the sake of a client.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:52
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Hawkgirl posted:Is this something that the prosecution can bring up to a jury? "He's testifying narratively, obviously his lawyer could not rely on him to tell the truth, obviously he's lying to you." ? No. It would likely be interpreted as the prosecutor trying to use knowledge gained from their official position to influence the jury. Which is a no no. Also re: earlier question at least here to get a third party culpability instruction you need some evidence (doesn't need to be much) to suggest a specific other person did it.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:19
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This is all too complicated. I'll just stick to traffic tickets.
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Feb 9, 2015 15:28
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blarzgh posted:This is all too complicated. I'll just stick to traffic tickets. Speaking of traffic tickets, I attended an internal work seminar about (among other things) the importance of passing legal resolutions changing the speed limit when you put in new speed limit signs. Apparently, somebody threw out the folder during an office shift that contained all the supporting legal documentation that makes ticketing people for speeding enforceable.
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Feb 10, 2015 06:36
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Lobsterpillar posted:Speaking of traffic tickets, I attended an internal work seminar about (among other things) the importance of passing legal resolutions changing the speed limit when you put in new speed limit signs. Apparently, somebody threw out the folder during an office shift that contained all the supporting legal documentation that makes ticketing people for speeding enforceable. It sounds like you work for a tiny, highly disorganized municipality, and LOL if they don't know what a .PDF is.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:05
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Would I be crazy to get a prenup with with my girlfriend before we become common-law married? Where I live (BC, Canada) you're considered common-law married after living together for 2 years, and the law now treats common-law couples essentially the same as legally married people with regards to division of assets and such. That said, I haven't really heard of anyone bothering to set up something like that after living with someone for a while, so maybe it's just my crazy risk-averse nature. It's not an issue for a while for me yet, but it's something that I've thought of a few times. I do have some modest assets but since they would pretty clearly pre-date the "marriage" it seems like I might be worrying over nothing.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:52
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Update to legal issue. My father passed way in November. My family is pursing a wrongful death/malpractice case at the behest of a couple physicians. I researched several firms and my family met with three firms. They are all very interested. Firm 1: Solo practitioner w/30ish years of med mal experience. He costs the most and he is not as credentialed (i.e. awards, nominations, society member, wins, money, etc) nor does he have a comparable history of wins to compared with the other two firms. 40% contingency, $3500 upfront for expert and records. Firm 2: This firm would assign two attorneys to our case. They have multiple offices and the main attorney here is a partner in the firm and recently won a 40 million dollar verdict for his firm within the past 6mo or year. 16ish years experience. He is also very active in the professional medical malpractice, is well credentialed, and frequently teaches other attorneys. The second attorney is the son of an attorney that has been with the firm since 1965 so we will essentially be getting him and his father on the team should be opt for this firm. This firm is very interested and is willing to negotiate the contingency fee and, surprisingly, is not requesting any money at all for the records or witness. 30-40% contingency, $0 upfront for experts and records. Firm 3: A boutique firm and possibly the most highly credentialed/awarded of the three firms/attorneys. 30+ years of med mal experience and lots of professional nominations, documented wins, and all around seems like a boss. He was able to tell us that the hypothetical trial would be able to be moved from the very conservative county where my parents live to the county where he passed away. He also was able to tell us that the journal we kept during my Dad's hospital stay would be not be available to the defendant if it was determined that it was kept in preparation for legal action and not merely as a daily diary. 40% contingency and $1500 for records and experts. This is also the attorney to which we were referred by my mother's will/estate attorney. Should the fact that the second firm is not asking us for any cash upfront be a red flag? Or are they just that interested in it? I think either 2 or 3 will be fine but my family is geeking out over the negotiable contingency fee of the 2nd firm; I worry the solo dude might be overwhelmed by the amount of work involved and not give us the best service so I think he is out. What are your thoughts legal goons? I have appreciated your recs throughout this process and I hope these questions/concerns are not too ignorant; I have never had to do this before. TIA. E: for additional content ThirstyBuck fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 20:31
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Its not common for a firm to advance expert/other expenses, bit its not unheard of, either. Ill bet they'll bill them back against your 60% if/when it settles. It sounds like you'd be fine with #2 or #3.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:40
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ThirstyBuck posted:Update to legal issue. IANAL but sounds like 3 lawyers who are hungry to have at your case, so I'm guessing it is good and likely to be worth a lot of money. I know that is no replacement for your dad, but good luck.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:53
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Firm 1: solos can be dangerous, because there's not a lot of back up. Firm 2: depending on how many other attorneys, this could be a sweatshop, which typically look for quantity over quality if representation. Most of those other "offices" may just be regus type locations by the way. Firm 3: sounds like a good mix of both firms. I'd go three. But go with whoever you're most comfortable with. I think we told you before, dont expect justice, just money.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:45
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State is MA, Middlesex county. I'm trying to legally change my name, which looks like it requires a long form birth certificate as part of filing. I'm a US citizen but was born in Canada, so I don't have this, and instead have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad. Does this satisfy the birth certificate requirement?
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Feb 11, 2015 22:40
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Monochrome posted:State is MA, Middlesex county. As long as you aren't black and running for president. (Serious answer: call the office you're filing it with, they should have someone who can answer.)
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Feb 11, 2015 23:58
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Kalman posted:As long as you aren't black and running for president. Rad, thank you. 
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Feb 12, 2015 00:09
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Not exactly related to your question, but if you were born in Canada you can obtain a long-form birth certificate. The default certificate many Canadian provinces issue is a 'short form' with basic information, but on request the province will provide the long form with all the appropriate information included. Unless you mean Middlesex wants a US birth certificate, so a Canadian one doesn't work at all.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:54
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There is a lady in her 40s who lost her house a few years ago because she defaulted on her mortgage, then lost her kids because she is loving nuts, then became a pro-se lawyer (because she is loving nuts and no lawyer will have anything to do with her) and faxed 1000's of pages of her "exhibits" for filing to the local courthouse and anybody else involved that has a fax machine. If they don't have a fax machine, she scans the documents and blanket emails them. Her "exhibits" are crazy ramblings mostly accusing everybody in the system,her ex-lawyers, the mortgage company, the attorneys representing the mortgage company, a secretary for the mortgage company, two judges, two sheriffs departments, the court administrators, the case worker for CPS, and a shitload of other people who I don't know who they are, of illegally conspiring against her under the color of law and doing coke together. The stuff you would expect from maritime freeman gold fringe people, but she hasn't mentioned any of that. She isn't at all secretive about her feelings of persecution and has made several webpages (with scans, screenshots, and audio recordings of all her phone calls, to the courthouse, the faxes she has sent, court papers, and her "exhibits") detailing the corruption against her. My involvement is that I am friends with one of her persecutors and that person is "not good with computers" so they forward all this poo poo to me for archiving. To be honest, I look forward to these emails. She spends all day, every day, every loving waking moment on this stuff and has been doing it for the better part of a decade. I'll give her a lot of credit as a person who is good at research, organizing, and documentation. Her "exhibits" have crossed the 6000 mark. At one point in the original house forclosure, the power got shut off for non-payment. Her boyfriend went out and hooked it back up somehow. The power company figured it out pretty quick and sent a crew to disconnect it again. I don't know the whole story, but I guess there was a plainclothes cop along with them (for some reason not related to her) and, when they showed up to disconnect the power, she went off about some legal reason they were in the wrong and threatened to go inside and get her gun if they didn't get off her property. She got a disorderly conduct out of that deal. Ten or twenty of her exhibits are screenshots of facebook friends lists with arrows and notes showing the web of her enemies and how they all relate to each other in a conspiracy against her. I was included on this list because I have one of the top 20 most common last names in the US and so does somebody else who conspired against her. A guy on my friends list that I went to US Army Basic Training with 22 years ago is also on her list because his very common last name is the same last name as some lawyer or person from the mortgage company that has something to do with her losing her house a few years ago. Right now, she is suing her ex-husband to get back the child support (in treble) that she was ordered to pay (but hasn't actually paid any of it because her only job is being a pro-se lawyer), suing the local county court for treble payment on everything she has been ordered to pay in court costs and fines, and a bunch of other poo poo. She believes that the custody orders are "null and void, non-voidable" (what does that even mean?) because the judge has no legal standing in this jurisdiction because of a violation of some federal law she dug up. I just put that out there to give an idea of how far from reality her mind is. I think it is a combination of her truly believing she has done nothing wrong and looking for a payday and justification. A year or two ago, the county told her to stop sending faxes. She complied, but still cranks out several emails per week. As I understand it, she is not allowed to file any lawsuits in the county. The last time there was a custody hearing (3-4 years ago), she brought in several milk crates full of folders and papers of her "exhibits" which the judge said they don't have time do deal with. Recently, her minor daughter told her that she was crazy and wanted nothing to do with her and would get a restraining order if MOTHER didn't quit bothering her. Then she followed it up with scans of the temporary custody order showing that FATHER has custody. MOTHER says that the custody order is "null and void and non-voidable" and has expired. I'm scraping the dirt around the tip of the rabbit hole with what I have shared here, but this whole situation has made me wonder a few things: Do temporary custody orders expire if there hasn't been a followup hearing? How can the county prohibit her from filing a lawsuit? Is there some "frivolous lawsuit" clause? Is there any remote possibility that treble damages even exist in this situation? She has named her former attorneys as co-conspirators against her in her ramblings because they either didn't get the results she wanted or outright bailed out on her. Is it normal for a client to be so hosed up that the word gets around and no attorney will have anything to do with them? This is in a city of <200,000 people. She hasn't physically threatened anybody (other than the power company situation a few years ago), but regularly tells the judge (via email) that she is filing a lawsuit against the county (for corruption, doing coke, kidnapping, trafficking her children,conspiracy, etc...) several times. The judge hasn't replied at all. Do the courts just ignore crazy poo poo like this? It is clear she has lost her mind, but the kids aren't in her custody and she hasn't made any statements that she is a physical danger to anybody. This post has gotten quite long, but if anybody is interested, I can post her latest email to the judge with the identifying information redacted. It is a doozy.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:53
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I'm not reading that unless I can bill for it.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:06
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SkunkDuster posted:How can the county prohibit her from filing a lawsuit? Is there some "frivolous lawsuit" clause? Usually, yes. Typically it's "requires the court's permission to file a suit." But it basically amounts to prohibiting them from filing suits. Amongst a number of luminaries who have been hit with vexatious litigant designations, Jack Thompson is a luminary in their aether.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:54
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Sounds like Lena Kochman disease http://youtube.com/watch?v=VYl68KipxeM
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Feb 12, 2015 08:20
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Kalman posted:Usually, yes. Typically it's "requires the court's permission to file a suit." But it basically amounts to prohibiting them from filing suits. That, or they stop waiving the various fees charged when filling. Even SCOTUS says "gently caress you" to these guys by making them submit their cases in a very specific format that basically requires people to pay hundreds of dollars in printing costs. A drop in the bucket for a law firm, but payment up front tends to discourage frivolous pro se filings.
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Feb 12, 2015 08:46
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So what is this 19 year old Texan girl supposed to do to prove her citizenship? If you haven't heard or read about it. Basically, parents never filed for a birth certificate as she was born at home. She was home schooled her whole life. She never went to a doctor or a hospital. Now she can't do anything really and the court system won't accept her documentation to prove her citizenship and her parents won't help her at all.
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Feb 12, 2015 08:52
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This is not a legal question or issue. She's probably not, like, a danger to anyone (hopefully) but she's really mentally ill and this is more sad than anything.
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Feb 12, 2015 14:06
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Back in December I got a ticket in Virginia (Henrico county) for expired registration on my car. I paid the registration but put off paying the ticket, because I'm an idiot. But it gets better: this morning I looked up when my ticket is due, and it turns out that my trial is this morning at 11am. I'm currently on a bus traveling for work, two hours away from home, so that's not going to happen. I've tried calling the clerk's office, but the message says they're closed. I'm gonna keep trying to call, in the hopes of paying over the phone, but if I can't do that: what are the consequences of failing to appear in traffic court for a minor offense like this?
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Feb 12, 2015 14:39
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SkunkDuster posted:
1. In Family Law, temporary orders generally include a date in them when the final hearing on the matters is set for, and the orders at the final hearing will set aside the temporary ones. In Civil (In Texas), a temporary restraining order lasts for 14 days, and then expires, and its up to the person seeking the temporary order to get an injunction within that time. 2. Some States allow a Court to find that someone is a "Vexation Litigant." If they do, their name almost literally goes on a list at the Courthouse, and they aren't allowed to file anything. 3. "Treble Damages" is a statutory thing, and only available if the statute that you're suing under allows for it; its a form of punitive damages. It is not likely that the Family code in her state allows for treble damages. A Court almost always has discretion to award punitive damages in the form of sanctions, however. Usually its in the form of a "Sanction Order" against the party, telling them to pay the other side's attorneys fees for being such an rear end and causing trouble. If they refuse (or can't) pay the fees, the Judge can issue a bench warrant and have them thrown in jail for disobeying an order of the Court. 4. What you have described is very uncommon, but word of something like this would typically get around in any jurisdiction that was small enough. 5. The Judge cannot communicate ex parte with parties to a litigation, about the litigation. That said, I would just ignore her rear end, too.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:37
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jackpot posted:Back in December I got a ticket in Virginia (Henrico county) for expired registration on my car. I paid the registration but put off paying the ticket, because I'm an idiot. But it gets better: this morning I looked up when my ticket is due, and it turns out that my trial is this morning at 11am. I'm currently on a bus traveling for work, two hours away from home, so that's not going to happen. I've tried calling the clerk's office, but the message says they're closed. I'm gonna keep trying to call, in the hopes of paying over the phone, but if I can't do that: what are the consequences of failing to appear in traffic court for a minor offense like this? When you get home, there will be a police officer hiding under your bed, waiting for you to get ready to fall asleep, and just before you crawl into bed.... Usually they just find you guilty and tack on Court costs to the fine for your ticket. Some Courts issue a bench warrant for your arrest and tack on Court costs to the fine for your ticket. In either event, you will have to call the clerk and find out which. Ask if they issued a warrant, ask if they found you guilty, ask how to pay your fine, and if they did issue a warrant, ask if you need to file anything to make it go away, or if you can make it go away by paying the fine. If you're not satisfied with, or don't understand their answers and your options, you can call a local attorney and see if they can sort it out for you.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:51
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SkunkDuster posted:There is a lady in her 40s who lost her house a few years ago because she defaulted on her mortgage, then lost her kids because she is loving nuts, then became a pro-se lawyer (because she is loving nuts and no lawyer will have anything to do with her) and faxed 1000's of pages of her "exhibits" for filing to the local courthouse and anybody else involved that has a fax machine. SkunkDuster posted:She believes that the custody orders are "null and void, non-voidable" (what does that even mean?) because the judge has no legal standing in this jurisdiction because of a violation of some federal law she dug up. jackpot posted:Back in December I got a ticket in Virginia (Henrico county) for expired registration on my car. I paid the registration but put off paying the ticket, because I'm an idiot. But it gets better: this morning I looked up when my ticket is due, and it turns out that my trial is this morning at 11am. I'm currently on a bus traveling for work, two hours away from home, so that's not going to happen. I've tried calling the clerk's office, but the message says they're closed. I'm gonna keep trying to call, in the hopes of paying over the phone, but if I can't do that: what are the consequences of failing to appear in traffic court for a minor offense like this? Keep calling. (The probably weren't open yet) Not VA, but here if you miss court it's an extra $50 for the arrest warrant and recall of the warrant. (Which if you call and pay within a day or two, never actually gets filed) joat mon fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:52
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