Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens - Choose Your Own Adventure

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Affi: Dec 18, 2005; Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

Nettle Soup posted:

We don't even know that it's wings we're losing, because they won't tell us. For all we know they could just be chopping our balls off for good this time.

Come on. Be real. You know its wings.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:50

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# ? May 5, 2024 20:18

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Angela Christine posted:

+1 This is great.

I'm reminded of the China thread some guy died, and the family decided not to tell his elderly father because it would be too upsetting, instead saying the dead guy was travelling. Everyone agreed this was for the best (except the goon who had married into the family). Later the father gets incurable cancer, and again the family decides not to tell him. His family and doctors all agree it is best not to tell the old man he is dying. He wasn't senile or anything, just old and sick, but their cultural norms said it was good and proper not to tell him. He'd probably done the same thing for/to his own parents and grandparents back in the day. People in China are 21st century Earth humans, they have iphones and stuff.

People acting in good faith can have dramatically different expectations and standards.

~~Changing my vote to this in its entirety~~

EDIT: OOPS!

Half-wit posted:

I
1. I give you permission to remove the wings. Yes, I know you can't confirm or deny that is what is happening, I give you permission anyways.
2. I give you permission to remove all contamination from my body. I heard from Snarls that people from Tanaach are being quarantined at Zepath, I assume part of the thing you're doing to make me better is to remove whatever that is.
3. I give you permission to re-circumcise me, even if that wasn't in your original set of orders.
4. I give you permission to remove the sixth digit on each hand, only if that was in your original set of orders.
5. I do not give you permission to make any other modifications to my body, and if you do, you'll be impinging on free will.
6. The food and clothing would be a really nice gesture, I would appreciate it.
7. Sorry that you're sorry, but you guys really need to ask for permission before doing things to others in the future.
8. G'night.

It's not rape if you give consent. Voting 'I' is basically giving consent, hence, not rape. I mean, sure, he won't tell us what he/they are doing, but we basically know.

Changing my vote to THIS in its entirety

Dog Kisser fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:51

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

Bularin posted:

Og isn't 4, and if he was, where are his parents? Legal guardians? The doctor in your description is almost, but not quite, as much a douche as the fuckhead in front of us. A 4 year old can understand "You're bleeding on the inside, we have to stop it to make you better." This jackass is flat out saying "Nope, not gonna tell you what we're doing or why." Also, it's worth noting that you forgot the part where, when the doctor used medical terminology to explain a problem to a 4 year old, he followed it up with "If you don't let us use these knives on you, we're sending you to an orphanage."

We don't know what they're doing or why. We don't know if it's good or bad for Og. What we do know is they felt deception was the best first option, and once that failed, open threats were the fall back plan.

The parents are not available. Maybe dead after a tragic car accident? Yeah, he'd be headed for an orphanage alright. I'm pretty sure real life doctors operate to save unconscious people's lives. I don't think Melachim particularly care for a distinction between conscious and unconsciousness, especially as Enkidel has proven to be quite adept at breaking the lines between the two.

I can already tell you if it's good or bad. Look at the information: We're sick. We have horrible back pain. We can't go home. What do we have to gain by NOT being operated on? Do you think they're taking away like, some divine part of us that will cripple us ahead in the future? Is that what you honestly believe is a possibility?

You believe that possibility of cosmic neutering overweighs the consideration of the fact that were are facing an actual, real problem that they say they are fixing? What's your end game? Do you think Enkidel is actually a super angel thing that can unite the heavens and earth and that THIS SPECIFIC procedure is going to stop us from saving Ur/the world/the universe? Are those the options you're weighing? And when we're stuck, wandering in the dessert, incapacitated by pain and illness and never seeing our loved ones again, you're going to come back and post "WELL THE ODDS COULD'VE GONE EITHER WAY!"

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:52

Nettle Soup: Jan 30, 2010; Oh, and Jones was there too.

Nettle Soup posted:

Link to start of update, it goes over several posts

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:52

falcon2424: May 2, 2005

Bularin posted:

Og isn't 4, and if he was, where are his parents? Legal guardians? The doctor in your description is almost, but not quite, as much a douche as the fuckhead in front of us. A 4 year old can understand "You're bleeding on the inside, we have to stop it to make you better." This jackass is flat out saying "Nope, not gonna tell you what we're doing or why." Also, it's worth noting that you forgot the part where, when the doctor used medical terminology to explain a problem to a 4 year old, he followed it up with "If you don't let us use these knives on you, we're sending you to an orphanage."

We don't know what they're doing or why. We don't know if it's good or bad for Og. What we do know is they felt deception was the best first option, and once that failed, open threats were the fall back plan.

Yeah, I just don't believe that they're doing something so complicated that they couldn't explain the relevant bits to a 30-year-old.

Like, radiation poisoning would be "The magic poisoned the air and the water. That poison is making you sick."

Especially since the real answer is that (1) something made us sick and he's fixing it and (2) we've got a whole bunch of outward signs of ultra-bloodedness that are going to be suppressed so we don't freak people out, express too much power, or show up as 'divine' for the purposes of some treaty.

In seriousness, what possible answer would be so complicated that you couldn't break it down for a reasonably intelligent (if technologically limited) person?

Tomn posted:

Let's determine the true cause of things before we decide it's time to give everyone the Finger, and if we're going to rebel, at least let's do it in the best and best effective manner possible. We've got plenty of informational sources yet to be tapped in Kavodel and Zepath (including, let's not forget, some captive Norcs), and I feel we should see what we can get from them before we decide that they're all worth less than the open road. Different, after all, doesn't necessarily mean better.

At some level, the whole story is structured around there being a divine mystery & conspiracy of silence. So, I don't expect to learn much from the sources in Kavodel and Zepath. Not only that, I find it hard to believe that you -- as a poster who's reading the thread -- really expect to get all that much information from the sources in Kavodel and Zepath.

To lay out my predictions: The Norcs came because they were ordered to. Someone in the Norc power structure got instructions and followed them. But we know that already, and won't get any details on the divine why.

Ishamal is going to be vague and evasive. The only real uncertainty is how much he'll complement or condemn us for refraining from using our powers and sending energy to our balls. We'll get no substantial answer on the surgery or why it was needed. But again, we pretty much know what they're doing and why.

What specific, non-trivial answers are you expecting to get?

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:55

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

dog kisser posted:

Changing my vote to this in its entirety

I think you may have quoted the wrong post. Unless you're voting to go live in China?

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:56

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Ubern00b posted:

Eh. It feels as if you're from an alien culture (vs. Western Europe here, directed at I-voters).

Not from a Western European culture myself. And, for that matter, neither is Ur.

I honestly feel that half of the more furious arguments in this thread spring out of culture clashes where people are unable to see why people in this strange, extremely foreign, and alien culture do things the way they do - and unwilling to try, in some cases, because they consider it too beyond the pale to be worth understanding. Speaking in general, mind you, not about this specific case. We like to think that people are all the same deep down inside, and to a degree we are, but different cultural assumptions DO matter, and CAN lead to people from different cultures consistently approaching the same problem from drastically different angles.

And when those cultural assumptions involve magic and centuries of life and angels and faith as an actual resource, whelp.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:57

Cornuto: Jun 26, 2012; For the pack!

Disargeria posted:

The parents are not available. Maybe dead after a tragic car accident? Yeah, he'd be headed for an orphanage alright. I'm pretty sure real life doctors operate to save unconscious people's lives. I don't think Melachim particularly care for a distinction between conscious and unconsciousness, especially as Enkidel has proven to be quite adept at breaking the lines between the two.

I can already tell you if it's good or bad. Look at the information: We're sick. We have horrible back pain. We can't go home. What do we have to gain by NOT being operated on? Do you think they're taking away like, some divine part of us that will cripple us ahead in the future? Is that what you honestly believe is a possibility?

You believe that possibility of cosmic neutering overweighs the consideration of the fact that were are facing an actual, real problem that they say they are fixing? What's your end game? Do you think Enkidel is actually a super angel thing that can unite the heavens and earth and that THIS SPECIFIC procedure is going to stop us from saving Ur/the world/the universe? Are those the options you're weighing? And when we're stuck, wandering in the dessert, incapacitated by pain and illness and never seeing our loved ones again, you're going to come back and post "WELL THE ODDS COULD'VE GONE EITHER WAY!"

"We can't go home"
No, they won't let us go home. This along with your "We need to do this so you can go home" line from the last bad analogy is a really dishonest retelling of the situation in the update.

"Do you think they're taking away like, some divine part of us that will cripple us ahead in the future? Is that what you honestly believe is a possibility?"
Yes. I believe that to be the most probable possibility. We've been referred to as an Abomination by the Melachim already. They've already threatened to limit us if we want to keep living among men. What is it you think they're doing? Double-top-secret flu shots?

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:57

Cannon_Fodder: Jul 17, 2007; "Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

Lanky Coconut Tree posted:

So because I point out that this situation is severely hosed up along with all the other connotations that come with it, I am to blame for the posters defending rape? Nor am I the only one to acknowledge just how messed up this whole situation is, plenty of others have done so, perhaps not so vocally.

People are upset because they would rather not deal with the stark reality of this update, nor what it means to defend the Melachim's actions. If you'd rather not risk having your thread closed, then so be it, I'll drop this out of respect for all the effort you've put into this. But don't ignore just how your update can be taken, just because you'd rather not deal with it.

You've got a point.

You're also a shithead that anchored down on this point and annoyed everybody else.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 18:59

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Angela Christine posted:

I think you may have quoted the wrong post. Unless you're voting to go live in China?

Oops!

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:00

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

falcon2424 posted:

What specific, non-trivial answers are you expecting to get?

Well, for starters, Ishamal mentioned he'd speak more about the Norcs and their background if they showed up again. Not only did they show up again, they showed up in the middle of one of the biggest shitshows to ever hit all of Ur. I'm fairly confident we can pry some more out of him about them.

But beyond that, again, this is the biggest goddamn thing to ever shake down in all of Ur since Labaras came down from the mountain, and we've been through things that are almost unbelievable. This is not a normal situation, and these are not normal circumstances, and if Ishamal thinks we're going to maintain faith in the face of that without at least SOME answers, he's beyond crazy. I remind you, again, that Mt. Har was FLICKERING - Ibleam could have just been an upscaled monster attack, but everything about Tanaach was above and beyond anything that went before by an order of magnitude.

I think we can safely expect him to do at least SOMETHING to keep us from giving everyone the finger and walking away, especially once it's clear how distressed we are about the lost souls of Tanaach.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:03

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

Cornuto posted:

"We can't go home"
No, they won't let us go home. This along with your "We need to do this so you can go home" line from the last bad analogy is a really dishonest retelling of the situation in the update.

"Do you think they're taking away like, some divine part of us that will cripple us ahead in the future? Is that what you honestly believe is a possibility?"
Yes. I believe that to be the most probable possibility. We've been referred to as an Abomination by the Melachim already. They've already threatened to limit us if we want to keep living among men. What is it you think they're doing? Double-top-secret flu shots?

Ish won't let us go home. Do you think he won't enforce that?

So you're betting that this divine crippling is going to have more of a negative impact on us in the future than the current terms? I mean, I can understand that point but I just don't see how you can jump to that conclusion OVER the current situation of being in a very bad spot as it is and them helping us.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:05

falcon2424: May 2, 2005

Tomn posted:

quote:
What specific, non-trivial answers are you expecting to get?
Well, for starters, Ishamal mentioned he'd speak more about the Norcs and their background if they showed up again. Not only did they show up again, they showed up in the middle of one of the biggest shitshows to ever hit all of Ur. I'm fairly confident we can pry some more out of him about them.

But beyond that, again, this is the biggest goddamn thing to ever shake down in all of Ur since Labaras came down from the mountain, and we've been through things that are almost unbelievable. This is not a normal situation, and these are not normal circumstances, and if Ishamal thinks we're going to maintain faith in the face of that without at least SOME answers, he's beyond crazy. I remind you, again, that Mt. Har was FLICKERING - Ibleam could have just been an upscaled monster attack, but everything about Tanaach was above and beyond anything that went before by an order of magnitude.

I think we can safely expect him to do at least SOMETHING to keep us from giving everyone the finger and walking away, especially once it's clear how distressed we are about the lost souls of Tanaach.

You didn't really answer the question.

We're working from different models of Ur. I think there's a set of fairly-well defined Laws about what Ishamal is allowed to tell us. You seem to think that things are more lax.

I'm totally willing to change my mind. Your model could be better. But I'd like to hear your predictions in advance (and I've given you mine). What specific, non-trivial answers are you expecting to get?

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:11

Outrail: Jan 4, 2009; www.sapphicrobotica.com

Yeah right we're going to tell Ish about any of this.

"What happened in Tannash? There was an attack."

"How did I end up so far away? There was alot of energy."

I'm sure someone in the PtB club will fill him in on the events, but damned if we're going to give him anything except vague non-information.

At this point it's a bit obvious were not just some random son of zepas kid. The world is going to poo poo and their worried about parental obscurantism.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:11

A RICH WHITE MAN: Jul 30, 2010; See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.

Diogines posted:

He says "That is why we are talking? Sorry. I know. This is not an uh... ideal situation?"

Ask if he knows what the word "coercion" means.

edit: just caught up on the drama this is not intended to rehash that this is a question about the nature of free will thank you and have a nice day!!!

A RICH WHITE MAN fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:12

BoneMonkey: Jul 25, 2008; I am happy for you.

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:13

falcon2424: May 2, 2005

Disargeria posted:

Ish won't let us go home. Do you think he won't enforce that?

So you're betting that this divine crippling is going to have more of a negative impact on us in the future than the current terms? I mean, I can understand that point but I just don't see how you can jump to that conclusion OVER the current situation of being in a very bad spot as it is and them helping us.

Where did they say that the Wing-ectomy is being done to help us?

They've said that (1) they could also fix our sickness while they're in there for the wing-ectomy and (2) wing-ectomy will mean that they don't interfere with our return to Ur.

But I genuinely didn't see the post where they said that the Wing-ectomy would -- absent Melachim interference -- help us.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:13

Ouroborus: Mar 31, 2010; I really only come here for the Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens CYOA these days.
SA was one of the first websites I ever frequented, waaaaay back in the day. I only got off my ass and got an account about 8 years ago. I bought the platinum upgrade recently.

Disargeria posted:

Ish won't let us go home. Do you think he won't enforce that?

So you're betting that this divine crippling is going to have more of a negative impact on us in the future than the current terms? I mean, I can understand that point but I just don't see how you can jump to that conclusion OVER the current situation of being in a very bad spot as it is and them helping us.

Personally it is because they're being creepy assholes about it and refusing to explain themselves. For beings so apparently enamoured of free will they pretty quickly went with "If he's asleep he can't deluge us with questions, or say no!"

"If you don't let us do this, you will be prevented from returning to Ur"
'Ok, why?'
"I can't tell you. Sorry!"

'What are you doing?"
'I can't tell you, sorry."

How do you know these guys are on good terms with Ish? These could be the Melachim who want to limit us, and they saw a golden opportunity to do it. That would explain their reluctance to explain themselves.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:15

Task Manager: Sep 5, 2008; A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.

Tomn posted:

Of course, Tanaach changed that - I don't think ANYONE can ignore Mt. Har's shenanigans during the fight. But the thing is, it's been about...two weeks or so since Tanaach blew. During that time, everyone was probably busy cleaning up the mess left over and trying to put out all the leftover fires the demons started, while we were considered MIA, presumed dead. There hasn't really been TIME for major organizational shakedowns to take effect, and if we're being operated on by the orders of some low-level sector bureaucrat (as seems likely) it's possible that the guy was acting on his own initiative and hadn't really gotten any memos yet. The events here aren't necessarily proof of anything at all going on back at HQ, or of what the Melachim can potentially do when they begin reforms.

(As an aside, it'll be really funny if a memo about what these guys tried to do made its way into a high-level post-disaster blame-assigning session of the Ophanim, only for Smythos to read it and roar "You did WHAT?! GODDAMNIT, we were trying to CULTIVATE HIM, YOU ASSHOLES!" And the next time we meet a Melachim Janitor, it's the guy who ordered the midnight surgery.)

If at some point in the future a Melachim actually apologizes to us for the way this Tijuana Back Alley Kidney surgery was presented to us, I'll be shocked. Shocked. I just don't buy what you're selling here: if it truly is a low-level issue that has just been mishandled badly, why the drive to handle it right now, with the state of the world as it is? If it was a minor issue but needed handled immeadiately, or if it is actually something deadly serious that could drastically harm Enkidel/or others, why the super secrecy? As a few people have pointed out, they don't even really need to tell us what they are doing or why - it's usually enough to tell Enkidel "This is something bad that needs to be done.", and we go along with it. Even that would have been drastically better than drugging us and trying to get away with us never knowing.

quote:

(Mind you, we DO apparently sometimes take certain of their words more to heart than others - I'm gonna laugh like crazy if it turns out the Melachim actually got MORE leery about telling us anything after we immediately freed the slaves after talking to them. "Aw, crap, looks like he's one of those divine law guys after all. Can you two not shut your mouths for one fraggin' second when you talk to him? Guess we'd better limit contact from now on.")

This may actually be partly why Jael is so upset. "Oh Creator, I heard about what happened the last time someone let something slip to this guy, why me??? He's going to run home and start telling people they must lose thier fingers for the Creator and having people sacrifice their pinkies and it's going to be all my fault." Still doesn't change the fact he's an rear end for following orders though.

quote:

Still, sure, it's easy to understand the frustration. I ain't blaming anyone for getting annoyed, and my own patience is getting a bit tested, especially since being someone who keeps trying to see the Melachim's side of things I can't say I particularly appreciate it when they hand out free ammo to all and sundry. But is it really right or productive to make decisions, possibly quite important ones, out of pure frustration? To vent for no reason than that we really need to vent and that a convenient target has popped up? Let's determine the true cause of things before we decide it's time to give everyone the Finger, and if we're going to rebel, at least let's do it in the best and best effective manner possible. We've got plenty of informational sources yet to be tapped in Kavodel and Zepath (including, let's not forget, some captive Norcs), and I feel we should see what we can get from them before we decide that they're all worth less than the open road. Different, after all, doesn't necessarily mean better.

As you noted with the Ibleam thing, situations can look vastly different based on whose head we're slipping into for the vantage point. Melachim may have saw Ibleam as an isolated fluke, and not the end of the world as Enkidel did. In a similar vein here with Kidney-theft, would Enkidel really be saying to himself while strapped to a table and unable to move a week or two after his buddy Rimush and his whole town ended up dead, and go "Oh. It's fine, everything's fine, :toot:

. I'll just go to sleep and when I walk home I'm sure my good friends the Melachim will level with me. I just have to trust them that whatever they are doing will work out for the best, just like Tanaach!"

There's no way, if we are in Enkidel's head, he would not be raging at this point. It's totally abnormal for him to just be OK with this series of events right now. Venting may not be the best choice as the players, if we're being honest, but Enkdiel would not just be accepting of the current scenario.

Like I said earlier, I think I'd be in total agreement with you on our next several actions - IF they just hadn't tried to steal one of our kidney's right after the destruction of Tanaach was so fresh in our brains.

Task Manager fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:15

HiHo ChiRho: Oct 23, 2010

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:17

Task Manager: Sep 5, 2008; A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:18

There Bias Two: Jan 13, 2009; I'm not a good person

BoneMonkey posted:

This is wonderful.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:18

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

Beautiful.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:19

Cornuto: Jun 26, 2012; For the pack!

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

I like your art.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:21

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

Ouroborus posted:

Personally it is because they're being creepy assholes about it and refusing to explain themselves.

That's not any different from how they usually act is it?

We never heard WHY we got that powerboost. We just assumed it was for good purpose. And you're assuming this one is for a bad purpose.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:24

A RICH WHITE MAN: Jul 30, 2010; See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.

J: I'm tired of us bowing our head and acquiescing every time a cosmic being which seems friendly comes around. No. NO!

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:25

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

Task Manager posted:

If at some point in the future a Melachim actually apologizes to us for the way this Tijuana Back Alley Kidney surgery was presented to us, I'll be shocked. Shocked.

Well they already did, so...

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:25

Ouroborus: Mar 31, 2010; I really only come here for the Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens CYOA these days.
SA was one of the first websites I ever frequented, waaaaay back in the day. I only got off my ass and got an account about 8 years ago. I bought the platinum upgrade recently.

Disargeria posted:

That's not any different from how they usually act is it?

We never heard WHY we got that powerboost. We just assumed it was for good purpose. And you're assuming this one is for a bad purpose.

Good point on the power boost, but normally they do offer some sort of explanation and they don't just *do* things to us.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:26

Task Manager: Sep 5, 2008; A weird time in which we are alive. We can travel anywhere we want, even to other planets. And for what? To sit day after day, declining in morale and hope.

Disargeria posted:

Well they already did, so...

Yes, I am aware of the 20 or so times Jael has apologized. I was responding to Tomn theorizing this may at some point make it up the hierarchy far enough that the guy who ordered this whole thing in the first place ends up coming in person to apologize.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:28

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

Ouroborus posted:

Good point on the power boost, but normally they do offer some sort of explanation and they don't just *do* things to us.

I'd argue that even when they try to explain positive things, it sounds evasive and like bullshit.

What about the Zviv? We never heard even a peep about that power boost except for dodging from Ish.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:30

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

Please never stop drawing for this thread.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:32

Dammerung: Oct 17, 2008; "Dang, that's hot."

BoneMonkey posted:

Awesome stuff!

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:34

ALogo: May 9, 2014

Disargeria posted:

I'd argue that even when they try to explain positive things, it sounds evasive and like bullshit.

What about the Zviv? We never heard even a peep about that power boost except for dodging from Ish.

As I recall, Ishamal sighed and said the thing with the Zviv was all Enkidel. I've been meaning to dig it up forever since people continually say El saved Enkidel, but as far as my memory goes, Ish said that's not the case.

Edit: Thinking about it, Enkidel might have accidently done to himself something similar to the buff Enkidel got recently he was told he can't reproduce?

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:39

Wentley: Feb 7, 2012

BoneMonkey posted:

Can we have Dad chat instead of... this?

Tudiya is pretty great, He's looked after our black arse and all round been a pretty chill guy. He even hits us with clubs when we ask him to.

Here he is reading the thread on his Itab...

We look so cool, trying to be tough like Dad. You are great BoneMonkey.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:39

There Bias Two: Jan 13, 2009; I'm not a good person

ALogo posted:

As I recall, Ishamal sighed and said the thing with the Zviv was all Enkidel. I've been meaning to dig it up forever since people continually say El saved Enkidel, but as far as my memory goes, Ish said that's not the case.

Edit: Thinking about it, Enkidel might have accidently done to himself something similar to the buff Enkidel got recently he was told he can't reproduce?

The melachim saved us after we killed ourselves doing the thing with the zviv. They didn't say we couldn't modify ourselves, they said we must not, or else.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:42

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

J.

gently caress you. If you want to do stuff to me without explanation, you're going to have to use force.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:43

A RICH WHITE MAN: Jul 30, 2010; See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.

Fat Samurai posted:

J.

gently caress you. If you want to do stuff to me without explanation, you're going to have to use force.

They already tried that! Coercion is the backup.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:44

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

falcon2424 posted:

You didn't really answer the question.

We're working from different models of Ur. I think there's a set of fairly-well defined Laws about what Ishamal is allowed to tell us. You seem to think that things are more lax.

I'm totally willing to change my mind. Your model could be better. But I'd like to hear your predictions in advance (and I've given you mine). What specific, non-trivial answers are you expecting to get?

It's pretty obvious that a lot of Ishamal's reticence ISN'T to do with laws - given how many things he says will be told to us "when we're older," or when circumstances otherwise change, and indeed given how he DID begin opening up to a degree after we stopped, y'know, going behind his back while he knew about it the entire time.

However, what you're asking me is kinda impossible to answer specifically. If I expect that a flood has washed away significant parts of a city, would I be able to predict exactly and specifically which buildings are gone, which are intact, and which are damaged but still functional? I could say "I think so and so district will receive more damage while so and so district will be spared," but anything beyond that requires knowledge I don't possess, don't you think? Unless, y'know, I'm a civic engineer who spent his entire life working on those buildings, but as of yet I've been unable to wrangle an invitation to a capybara dinner party.

Still, to give a rough guess:

Norcs: I think we can expect a greater round of background information, as per what he promised. We could also get some fascinating insights about what Norcish culture is actually like by talking to the Norcs, even if we don't get the "high-level" stuff - learning the basics of how our enemies are organized and how they think and where they come from would be of very great value.

Mt. Har: I don't expect we'll be getting the ENTIRE rundown here, but he's got to know that if he doesn't give us SOMETHING about what happened we're going to be looking at him slant-eyed forever after because, seriously, Mt. Har flickering?

??? change: If nothing else, this affects our training. How were we modified, and how long will the modification last? Again, I don't expect a full rundown, but we can expect to glean some more clues out of what he tells us.

Strategic situation: I think there's a decent chance of our getting a general overview of what happened in the nearby area, and perhaps what the "bad feeling" was further away. If nothing else, with Tanaach gone, the defense and economy of Kavodel and Zepath has just been seriously shaken and we DO need to know more to protect our people.

Mr. Big: I don't expect much in the way of what or why this exists. I think we can, however, expect some advice on what to do if it comes again, or something much like it - especially since we've just proved that we're too dumb to run without explicit instructions.

Ishamal's Own Views: This is actually pretty important: How is Ishamal, and in turn how are the Watchers handling this? If they brush it off by saying "No, everything's fine, business as usual," that's actually key information, as it demonstrates that we can't rely on them, at all, to change anything. If they're visibly and obviously upset but still sticking to the party line, this indicates a dissension among the ranks of the Melachim that we may be able to make use of. If they're completely shocked and still trying to make sense of things, then obviously some really nasty poo poo is going on, which is bad, but on the plus side we could leverage that shock to crack a LOT of answers open, and get the ball rolling for change. So on and so forth - Ishamal's reaction to Tanaach could tell us a lot.

The Great Wingsnip: Again, Ishamal's views could be very informative as regards to what's going on in the Melachim hierarchies, how they're organized, and how they're reacting to things - whether or not he intended to be.

This is an incomplete list, since to be frank gently caress you if you think I'm going to list down EVERY SINGLE THING I'm hoping to get out of Ishamal, Zeb, the Watchers, the Norcs, and co. I get enough complaints about length as is. But in general, I don't expect him to simply hand us the crown jewels, but I DO expect him to open up more in a way that we can extrapolate usefully from, just as we've been doing throughout this entire thread. Small answers add up to big ones when you've got enough of them, and with as many new questions and with as changed a situation as we've got going on here, I think we can expect a motherlode of fresh knowledge - even if it falls far short of what we might hope for.

Task Manager posted:

Yes, I am aware of the 20 or so times Jael has apologized. I was responding to Tomn theorizing this may at some point make it up the hierarchy far enough that the guy who ordered this whole thing in the first place ends up coming in person to apologize.

What? No. I was theorizing that the higher-ups would get ANGRY at the low-level idiot, not that they'd apologize to us personally. And I was theorizing this because I thought it was funny to imagine more than anything else. What I was primarily theorizing in that bit was that this here incident isn't really necessarily indicative of how higher HQ is thinking or responding, not that Smythos is personally going to hand us a gift coupon for Lefkandi's Pots.

I'll to your other stuff later, this is running long enough as is.

BoneMonkey posted:

I approve of this new direction. Especially Enkidel looking bored yet stern in the background.

Tudiya's got some serious ape arms going on, though, they're almost taller than Enkidel is!

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:44

Outrail: Jan 4, 2009; www.sapphicrobotica.com

We survived a nuclear (or similar) explosion. It cost us a bit or PIE but we regret our body from the feet up. Getting knocked out is something that'll cost us comparatively very few points, and brain damage isn't something we need to worry about.

So later on (when we have 80 or so PIE) we should get a stone block and knock ourselves out, go talk to DreamJorah (if he's still alive) and trick him into talking about quarks and gluons.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:45

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# ? May 5, 2024 20:18

Grognan: Jan 23, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

ALogo posted:

As I recall, Ishamal sighed and said the thing with the Zviv was all Enkidel. I've been meaning to dig it up forever since people continually say El saved Enkidel, but as far as my memory goes, Ish said that's not the case.

Edit: Thinking about it, Enkidel might have accidently done to himself something similar to the buff Enkidel got recently he was told he can't reproduce?

I don't think he said much about the Zviv at all. Tudiya said that something like that really could have killed us.

My personal recollection is that it did and something bailed us out.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 19:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens - Choose Your Own Adventure

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