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Endorph posted:The last time Beerus was awake, wouldn't Buu have been in his 'pure' form? Beerus was last awake like 20 years ago.
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Feb 19, 2015 00:03
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| # ? May 14, 2024 12:16 |
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Yeah I thought it was implied that Mr. Buu is the only time ever that Buu's looked like that
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Feb 19, 2015 00:20
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Brony Hunter posted:Regarding Saiyans and Frieza, it's amusing just how weak and puny the average Saiyan warrior was even compared to Frieza's footsoldiers. Vegeta, an Elite-class Saiyan, had a similar power level to Cui. Lower class warriors like Raditz were likely even weaker than the myriad of various grunts on Frieza's army. For a "proud, warrior race", the Saiyans were pretty low on the galactic food chain if they couldn't use their Oozaru transformations. I dunno, on Namek Gohan and Krillen were able to take out a couple of Freeza's footsoldiers easily. I think Cui was supposed to be a pretty tough fighter, though just under "elite" level. The average Saiyan (like Raditz) was probably around the same level as one of the footsoldiers. Or maybe the dudes on Namek were even stronger than an average grunt and most of the guys in Freeza's army are even weaker than that.
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Feb 19, 2015 01:36
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Brony Hunter posted:Regarding Saiyans and Frieza, it's amusing just how weak and puny the average Saiyan warrior was even compared to Frieza's footsoldiers. Vegeta, an Elite-class Saiyan, had a similar power level to Cui. Lower class warriors like Raditz were likely even weaker than the myriad of various grunts on Frieza's army. For a "proud, warrior race", the Saiyans were pretty low on the galactic food chain if they couldn't use their Oozaru transformations. I may be totally talking out my rear end here, but the impression I got is that most of the soldiers in Freeza's army were weird freaks who just so happened to be really powerful for their species, and the reason why Saiyans were feared/used so extensively by Freeza's organisation is because they legit were one of the few species where the vast majority were incredibly powerful compared to the average space peasant. I think saiyans, and namekians are the only species who appear to have ki usage as a common thing (even if only the namekians actually really understand it) and a good deal of strong warriors. I mean, yeah, okay you might think "Vegeta was only as strong as Cui". But I think the power structure of Freeza's entire army seems to go Freeza (and his dad is around here. Ginyu Force (except Guldo) Zarbon Dodoria Vegeta/Cui Everyone else. And, I know there are databooks and stuff like that that give exact powerlevels, but I don't think there's any evidence in the manga that Dodoria is actually any stronger than Cui, Vegeta takes them both out with practically no effort. I mean, I guess Dodoria wasn't really worried about fighting Vegeta. I also don't think there's any hint in the Manga that untransformed Zarbon is stronger than Dodoria. I'm really splitting hairs here I guess. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 01:37
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Don't forget Abo and Cado. They were the Ginyu Force's level at the time of the Namek saga.
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Feb 19, 2015 01:44
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Mordaedil posted:Beerus straight up stated in Battle of Z that Freiza was a contender for the title of God of Destruction too. Beerus never said that Freeza was a contender for God of Destruction, just that he's glad Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta since it saved him the trouble of having to do it himself.
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Feb 19, 2015 01:45
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Vegeta shows up on Namek, kills Cui and Zarbon and Dodoria start freaking out that Vegeta's shiny, new 22,000 is equal to each of their numbers.
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Feb 19, 2015 01:50
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Doesn't Nappa say something about a few PL 1200 Saibamen usually being all the force they need? I get the feeling that being in the high four, to say nothing of five, figures of PL makes you kind of a big deal galactically.
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Feb 19, 2015 02:04
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To be fair, Raditz, the butt of all jokes, was more powerful than Goku and Piccolo combined at the start of DBZ. And they were by far the most powerful beings on the entire planet. Except Gohan. So, yeah, when you look through that lens, a portable army of 1200s would be ridiculous.
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Feb 19, 2015 02:31
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It's probably a pile of crap and lies but I remember someone mentioning once that Ox King at the start of Dragon Ball technically had a Power Level of 1000, but that it didn't really matter since he had literally no Ki control abilities
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Feb 19, 2015 02:55
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That does factor into the whole "power levels are bullshit" aspect though since all of them were powerful enough to blow up a PLANET if they wanted to. Edit: ^^^A lot of the miscellaneous power levels came from an pamphlet that came with the original "Tree of Might" video.
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Feb 19, 2015 02:58
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New Leaf posted:That does factor into the whole "power levels are bullshit" aspect though since all of them were powerful enough to blow up a PLANET if they wanted to. Very true. Remember, Roshi detonated the Moon at PL 139.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:02
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The "everyone can blow up a planet thing" is the result of anime filler, isn't it? Like, Freeza had trouble blowing up Namek in the manga, but Vegeta, in the anime filler, blows up a planet effortlessly and instantly? That implied to me that blowing up a planet is something really hard even for Freeza, but the anime didn't know this and allowed Vegeta to do it to make him seem more menacing. Then again, I remember Vegeta threatening to blow up the Earth during the battle between Goku and Vegeta. It could also be a matter of size, I suppose. Namek is supposedly much, much larger than Earth or the Moon.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:03
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Covok posted:The "everyone can blow up a planet thing" is the result of anime filler, isn't it? Like, Freeza had trouble blowing up Namek in the manga, but Vegeta, in the anime filler, blows up a planet effortlessly and instantly? That implied to me that blowing up a planet is something really hard even for Freeza, but the anime didn't know this and allowed Vegeta to do it to make him seem more menacing. Then again, I remember Vegeta threatening to blow up the Earth during the battle between Goku and Vegeta. THe moon is just made out of cheese so its easy to destroy
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Feb 19, 2015 03:06
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I've always thought that average Saiyans were stronger than most of Freeza's footsoldiers (the dudes with helmets and guns strapped to their arms). But then again, maybe not. I dunno. As someone else said, the big deal with Saiyans was that a PL of 1000 was considered average and unremarkable. With other races, only a few spectacular individuals could get that strong, but a Saiyan with a PL of 1000 was considered mediocre. And then there were stronger guys like Nappa, King Vegeta, and Vegeta himself, who actually were a lot stronger than most of Freeza's men. The only people as strong or stronger than Vegeta were Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, the Ginyu Force, Freeza, and King Cold. And this was all without training: adult Saiyans were just sorta naturally at 1000 and above. Yeah they fought a lot and probably sparred with one another, but it's not like they were using gravity chambers or RoSaTs. If they did, the average power level would've gone way up. This doesn't account for zenkais, though. I'm sure there were Saiyans who came back from missions nearly dead and had to be revived. Didn't they get a lot stronger? Or maybe at lower levels, zenkais only give a tiny boost. You have to have a PL of 20,000+ before you start getting huge increases. Vegeta goes from 18,000 to 24,000, and then from that to 30-something-thousand, and then after that he's almost as strong as Freeza in his first form. Maybe if your PL is only at 1000, you only get like a 0.10% increase each time, not some whole number multiple. But then again, maybe most Saiyans WERE getting stronger. More and more Saiyans are coming back from missions and getting revived with PLs in the 2000s or 3000s, so Freeza decides to destroy them.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:20
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projecthalaxy posted:Very true. Remember, Roshi detonated the Moon at PL 139. Yeah but Raditz found out that Goku/Piccolo can boost their PL when using techniques. There's no way Roshi stayed at 139 when he hulked out and did that Kamehameha.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:26
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I like to think when Vegeta threatened to destroy the planet with Galick Gun, it was part of his bravado personality/bluff, and maybe he would just critically gently caress up the Earth to be destroyed in some time. Like, his plan would be to leave, and maybe the Earth is too hosed up to continue on in the long-term. I don't think he could vaporize it like he did in that funny/cool filler versus the Bugmenians. Namek is larger than Earth, right? Did it also have a higher gravity? Maybe it has like a crust x10 thicker than Earth and... gently caress what I am talking about. E: I like to think of Saiyans as like Viking shock troopers. Freeza could throw a bunch of expendables savages at the planet, and they would gladly do it in the hysterical name of honour or pride or becoming a warrior elite. RE: Zenkai, in RPGs and stuff it's usually just a flat % of their strength, which kind of makes sense that they didn't get too out of control. Alternatively, rank-and-file Saiyan weren't worth the time in the Super Cool Healing Pods. Officers only, scrub. 
Firstborn fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 03:32
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You know, if going Oozaru is really a 10x multiplier, then Raditz-as-Oozaru would still be weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta. No wonder Vegeta had such contempt for him.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:38
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New Leaf posted:That does factor into the whole "power levels are bullshit" aspect though since all of them were powerful enough to blow up a PLANET if they wanted to. You need special ki attacks that take years and years to develop to do something like that. Every ki attack is not the same thing. Roshi could do it (the moon, at least) because he created a ki attack that rose his power level to ridiculous amounts (and then drained him completely), and said ki attack had drilling AND explosive properties to it that made it good for detonating stuff. Goku learned it (and Cell via Goku). Piccolo had something kind of similar, because he's Piccolo. Vegeta, who was the number one fighting guy left on his planet, developed something that worked similarly. Freeza made up a couple of explosive attacks, one that didn't work all that well in detonating the core since he didn't control his power very well (or he just wanted to fight Goku for a while). Buu had a ton of explosivo attacks. Besides them, and others that used those same attacks, not many developed world blowing up type attacks. They just shot out random ki attacks that were probably equal to their power level because they were crap with ki. As stated earlier, that was kind of what half the point of power levels were - to show you why the heroes had a chance against "stronger" people due to having much better ki control, or powering up ridiculously when angry. Darko fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 03:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7atfhxXKr-U Check this out. If you use an Ultimate in Xenoverse under the mentorship of the original user, sometimes he shows up and does a ghostly Father-Son-Kamehameha-like bonus.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:41
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Covok posted:The "everyone can blow up a planet thing" is the result of anime filler, isn't it? Like, Freeza had trouble blowing up Namek in the manga He didn't have trouble with it. He basically was like, "I'm going to detonate the core now with this thing I don't really have to charge, so you lose." Then he was like "woops, I don't know how to control my power very well in this form, so it will take 5 minutes instead of being instant." Then Goku was like, "you subconsciously held back a bit because you wanted to test me in fighting," and Freeza was like, "heh." So it was more about a lack of trying seriously than anything. And, on top of that, it wasn't a "charge all of my energy and raise my power level while doing it" attack like the garlick gun, big bang attack. or kamehameha.
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Feb 19, 2015 03:42
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Firstborn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7atfhxXKr-U Radical. Shame you can only train under those 12 dudes, I'd love to get some ghost mentor action with Kid Buu's Genocide Cannon. Oh well, they said there would be DLC masters...
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Feb 19, 2015 04:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6juok2UydFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6juok2UydFQ This is a video of a live action DBZ thing in Japan's Greenland Amusement Park. E: I saw someone made Goku Jr. in Xenoverse, and it never occurred to me that you could make Tarble. They even have Adult Gohan's hair in the CAC. He pretty much used Vegeta's hair in the manga, but still. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 06:06
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Flytrap posted:I was always sad they got rid of ape form. GT did a lot of things wrong, but bringing back the Oozaru back was not one of them. Heck, the golden oozaru was basically a normal oozaru gone super. I always wondered if Goku's SSJ3 form was somewhat based on drawing out a part of the oozaru in him, but then again, no tail.
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Feb 19, 2015 08:36
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New Leaf posted:I am curious how powerful Bardock really was as a Super Saiyan. He didn't even kill Frieza's ancestor, and he wasn't supposed to be anywhere near as strong as Goku was when he turned. He may well be the weakest Super Saiyan ever. Bardock's power level is given to be 'around 10,000' in his OVA; depending on if he got a Zenkai after recovering from his death slash time travel trip, and considering the Super Saiyan state multiplies your power 50x, it could be anywhere from 500,000 to, according to older data I recall that says you need at least a power level of 100,000 before you can trigger the Super Saiyan state, over 5 million.
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Feb 19, 2015 10:20
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Now I'm wondering how things might have diverged had Bardock gone Super Saiyan against Frieza and managed to kill him(assuming SS Bardock is at least as powerful as Frieza's first form and Frieza doesn't get a chance to change forms since he seems to need uninterrupted concentration to pull them off, and Bardock barreling right for him might prevent him from doing so, especially if he underestimates how much of a boost Bardock got from going SS), assuming that for some reason or another that Cold(or Cooler or Kuriza if they exist in this Timeline) don't immediately go after the Saiyans
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Feb 19, 2015 11:14
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Cornwind Evil posted:according to older data I recall that says you need at least a power level of 100,000 before you can trigger the Super Saiyan state I don't think this is accurate, Goten goes Super Saiyan while sparring with Chi Chi and getting his rear end handed to him.
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Feb 19, 2015 13:32
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Blockhouse posted:GET HYPE  Aw yeah
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Feb 19, 2015 13:56
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He's 1st form again?
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Feb 19, 2015 13:57
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Please let Vegeta be the one to avenge his race this time...
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Feb 19, 2015 13:58
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-Fish- posted:I don't think this is accurate, Goten goes Super Saiyan while sparring with Chi Chi and getting his rear end handed to him. Did he become a Super Saiyan or just TURN Super Saiyan? I always assumed he got it while sparring with Trunks or something. The scene indicated that ChiChi knew about it but I don't know if she was the cause.
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Feb 19, 2015 13:59
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sharktamer posted:He's 1st form again? http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/02/16/new-world-collectable-figures-revealed-revival-f/ From the new series of collectables:   Roshi and Tien look great. And Vegeta and Goku have their new costumes.
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Feb 19, 2015 14:18
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It seems Goku was the strongest Saiyan ever quite early in the series. I'm gonna say some time in between Saiyan and Namek saga, maybe even at Saiyan saga. Saiyans are chumps.
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Feb 19, 2015 14:44
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sharktamer posted:It seems Goku was the strongest Saiyan ever quite early in the series. I'm gonna say some time in between Saiyan and Namek saga, maybe even at Saiyan saga. Saiyans are chumps. Even with Kaioken he lost against Vegeta pretty badly, so he was the strongest from around mid-Namek saga (when he was training) until the Androids show up. Then he's surpassed by SSJ Vegeta, USSJ Vegeta and Gohan. Then he's the strongest for a short amount of time when he's back on Earth with his SSJ3 form, only to be surpassed again by Gohan.
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Feb 19, 2015 15:17
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Onmi posted:Please let Vegeta be the one to avenge his race this time... I hope this is true also.
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Feb 19, 2015 15:41
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sharktamer posted:He's 1st form again? it makes sense that being brought back to life would give him back his normal body. It's effectively a brand new one, after all.
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Feb 19, 2015 15:58
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After Battle of the Gods, Toriyama said he wanted Vegeta to carry the next movie. Whether or not he put that into practice is anyone's guess. In a previous interview featured in the March 2014 issue of Saikyô Jump, Akira Toriyama said that, in the event that there is talk of another animated film after Battle of Gods, he would like Vegeta to play the main role; however, he added that this is nothing more than intentions, and he had not yet made such a decision
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Feb 19, 2015 16:13
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sharktamer posted:It seems Goku was the strongest Saiyan ever quite early in the series. I'm gonna say some time in between Saiyan and Namek saga, maybe even at Saiyan saga. Saiyans are chumps. Goku, and other Earth Saiyans are stronger than the rest of their race due to Saiyan power being reliant on emotions. However, the Saiyans culturally mistook this association to mean only anger/hate to be the key to their power. Goku and co. discovered that to truly unlock the power of their race one must embrace all emotions, most importantly love and the need to protect those dear to you. This is why Bardock achieved such a significant jump in power despite being "low-class". In his specials he falters in his Saiyan "imafuckyouup" attitude and for a brief moment feels the pain of the loss of his team and the wanton slaughter of the muppets who had taken care of him by Chilled. And Vegeta steadily grows in power the more he grows to accept the love he has for his family, culminating with him actually surpassing non-God Goku by the time of Beerus' appearance. The rest of the Galaxy did not fear Saiyans because they were the strongest. In fact all evidence supports them being mid-range at best. They feared them because while most other species require a lifetime of training to achieve great power, a Saiyan can suddenly and instantly rival your ability and all that they need for this to happen is for someone to hurt someone they've grown fond of. Or get the poo poo kicked out of them and live. Any being that does not have this ability would then be forced to tread lightly around any group of two Saiyans or more. For even if you are more powerful, all it would take is one false move that triggers any emotion other than sheer survival instinct (a Saiyan must fight for another, not themselves, to unlock their power) and a Saiyan will escalate in power before your very eyes. Goku and Gohan frequently top the charts because they never had the baggage that comes with a Saiyan society that values macho stoicism. Meaning even looking at their friends funny will trigger their racial abilities. Vegeta had to learn to let go of his Saiyan upbringing and in doing so actually proves to be the more naturally powerful warrior! Vegeta's natural fighting ability is greater than Goku's, and now that he is not held back by his Saiyan aversion to emotions he can tap into the same source of power Goku has used since being dropped on his head as a baby. Vegeta be top dawg, yo.
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Feb 19, 2015 16:20
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The guy drawing the manga for the movie is...quote:“Toyotarō” is, in all likelihood, a second pen-name used by Dragon Ball AF fan manga author and illustrator “Toyble”. The introductory manga will run for three chapters in the April, May, and June 2015 issues of V-Jump in Japan. Stay tuned to Kanzenshuu for further coverage of the chapter when it hits Japanese shelves this weekend.
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Feb 19, 2015 16:26
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I'm really looking forward to Revival of F. April 18 in Japan. I assume they will do an official dub, as well. And yeah I hope Vegeta gets to be the guy for this one. Heaven knows Tracksuit Gohan is not going to help much, with his tracksuit and his lack of battle ambition.
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Feb 19, 2015 16:27
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