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rope kid posted:Sabres were modified to simply have a higher base damage. They no longer inflict a DoT. Ok, that explains why I couldn't see any info on the DoT on the damage readout or combat log :P Probably a good choice and probably also means I'll go saber / stiletto, if only because having a lighter weapon in the off hand feels more "real." Actually how do the mechanics of dual weilding work? Will a faster weapon in the off-hand attack more often or is it limited by the main hand? I wish the character sheet showed a DPS tooltip instead of just a raw damage total.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:40
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I hope they eventually show you the attack time in sec/msec
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Feb 22, 2015 05:53
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Ok, is it possible to save the girl from the Animancer? I had my Cipher clear her mind and then tried having my priest cast the Withdraw spell on her but she seems to have just like auto-died anyway; there wasn't a corpse, but she never reappeared and the scripted interaction with Lord Fancypants was just "she's dead." Don't want to keep trying if saving her isn't possible.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:55
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She shouldn't be a combatant. Using AoEs might kill her but she shouldn't just die if you took the cipher option.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:09
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Basic Chunnel posted:She shouldn't be a combatant. Using AoEs might kill her but she shouldn't just die if you took the cipher option. That's the issue -- I tried the battle twice and she always got blasted by the opponent's AoE's, so on my third reload I was expecting the Withdraw to save her but instead it seemed like she auto-died.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, is it possible to save the girl from the Animancer? I had my Cipher clear her mind and then tried having my priest cast the Withdraw spell on her but she seems to have just like auto-died anyway; there wasn't a corpse, but she never reappeared and the scripted interaction with Lord Fancypants was just "she's dead." Don't want to keep trying if saving her isn't possible. Like BC said, you should be able to save her if you're just mindful. Don't do any AOE's too close to her, don't fight near her and just leave her be, and you should be fine.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:12
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On the Flail issue - one of the problems there is that the chance to graze has been reduced by 10%. Grazes are now a 35% chance. Flails have a 10% chance to convert graze-to-hit. Converting grazes to hits is not as good as an accuracy bonus because it does not reduce miss chance or get the full spikes in damage % from the ranges in ACC-DEF where 1% miss chance is removed and 1% crit chance is added, etc. That makes it equivalent to +3.5 Accuracy without the damage spikes from the formula, which makes it even worse than 3.5 Accuracy. The bonus can also be invalidated and gets worse when you have a very high or very low accuracy. Since this is a rubbish item property, I thought it would be cool to change Flails to something like x1.1 Recovery Speed or something, so that they are the fastest melee weapon in the game. I think it would make thematic sense since they're on a chain and you just fling them around and it would be interesting mechanically as it would go well with high speed builds and high frequency interrupt chance builds. So yeah, I think I'll avoid flails until a change is made, as currently they're the worst melee weapon.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:27
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I haven't seen a whole bunch of people fight with flails, but I can't imagine them being a particularly fast weapon; you'd have to be very careful to not hit yourself with them for starters, and then I'd guess that they would be hard to control what with being a heavy thing on a chain.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:52
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I'm more interested in them being mechanically viable in some way than being fast. Flails are small, light weapons in PE. Personally I do not care as long as they get a better item property.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:01
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Ok, woohoo, finally finished the beta, after doing multiple restarts to "re-optimize", do quests in different order, etc. Overall very excited for the full game. It's hard to think of real criticisms. At this point I'm planning on requesting March 26th & 27th off from work, and I haven't done that since Skyrim (and Skyrim didn't deserve it, in retrospect). Already recommending the game to all my friends. I'd like to see more portrait options. More than once I tried to make a character and there wasn't a portrait option that lined up --there's only one possible female Aumau portrait, for example. As far as classes, my BB fighter ended up being the top damage dealer for me, probably because I got the Exceptional Estoc early on and enchanted it up for him. Second most damaging was my Blunderbuss Cipher, who was a real blast (zing!) to play but very squishy and fragile. I think he'd have been on top of the damage if he'd spent less time doing crowd control, but that makes sense. The difficulty level on "Hard" felt exactly right. The game was consistently challenging but not impossible or unfair. Writing was great and the villain was believable and made sense. Fights were very "Swingy" and without some significant passive healing I would've gotten my poo poo wrecked almost every time; the damage accumulated too quickly for active healing to even be practical or useful. Writing a Guide for this is going to be a royal bitch. UI Sometimes I have problems selecting the next character in combat -- I noticed a few times that my BB fighter was attacking my second character; when i'd clicked on the second character to select them it'd interpreted that as a "no, instead of what I just said, attack your teammate" command. Wheee! Using the number keys to select is the workaround but still easy mistake to make. A couple of times I managed to extend the combat log scroll window up above the top of my screen and couldn't drag it down again (though I could still minimize the whole thing sideways). As mentioned above, I wish the character sheet had tooltips that showed the final DPS calculation as well as the raw numbers. Sometimes on the character sheet it's hard to figure out what the final numbers are. For example I couldn't see on the sheet that my Penetrating Shot DR was correctly stacking with the DR from Leadspitter's enchantments. Sometimes I wished there was a "see everything that's clickable" button I could press for spotting plants and herbs in the wild etc. Balance and Design Game balance wise everything seemed pretty goddam legit (which I mean as high praise!). Perception and Resolve seem like under-useful stats compared to the other four (but maybe that's why my fights were so swingy! I may not have been appreciating their use.). Might seems like it gives slightly too high a Fortitude bonus compared to Endurance. Weapon balance was overall pretty great but again took some getting used to; it really does seem that most weapons have a legitimate role depending on build and very few of the weapons were "bad." Some of the talents, by contrast, did seem relatively weak, esp. given how few talent slots you get.
A few questions (bugs?) I never really figured out: If I don't use skill points on a level up, do they carry over to the next level? Because they should. If they don't that's a giant pain in the rear end and I'll have to sit down and make little charts of what to raise at each level up for each character so I don't screw myself and lose points. Similarly, how many skill points do you get per level? AT which levels? It seemed to vary a bit and I didn't see a good writeup on the wiki. With the BB fighter I could never figure out how to use the Vigorous Defense ability. I'd click it but nothing would happen. Does it not work in defense mode or something? If I equipped items that gave spell uses, like the quarterstaff, to classes that already had that ability (i.e., the priest), they got a LOT of uses, like five buttons with 3 uses per button or whatever. I presume that's a bug?
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Feb 22, 2015 16:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Actually how do the mechanics of dual weilding work? Will a faster weapon in the off-hand attack more often or is it limited by the main hand? Rapier & stiletto are faster than sword & stiletto are faster than sword & mace are faster than sword & shield (of any type). Hieronymous Alloy posted:I wish the character sheet showed a DPS tooltip instead of just a raw damage total.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If I don't use skill points on a level up, do they carry over to the next level? You always get 6 points/level after 1st. Vigorous Defense is an active ability and it only works in combat. Defender shouldn't have any effect on activating it, but both of their bonuses fall into the "active/modal" category, so the Deflection bonuses from Defender will be suppressed. The item use count bug has been around for a long time and been extremely difficult to fix. That said, I believe Adam finally fixed it last week.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sometimes I wished there was a "see everything that's clickable" button I could press for spotting plants and herbs in the wild etc.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:56
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rope kid posted:Yes and yes. A faster weapon also recovers faster, so the slower main hand will still attack more frequently on a given timeline. Ouch >_<. I just like to see lots of numbers, but conversely, I'm bad at actual math, so if the ui doesn't show em, I'm gonna try to figure it out and do piss-poor job of it and get annoyed with myself. >_< Still not sure I completely understand the dual weild mechanics but I think you gave me the info I need, I just need to process it better. Surprised that weapon and shield is so slow.
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Feb 22, 2015 17:05
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Dual-wielding is inherently faster than single weapon, weapon and shield, or two-handed weapons (which are all roughly the same speed, not accounting for using fast or standard speed weapons). Single weapon (no shield) has an Accuracy bonus. Weapon and shield has a Deflection bonus. Two-handed weapons do more damage.
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Feb 22, 2015 17:16
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Is it just me or are the racial bonuses for the Godlikes a bit underwhelming given the potentially awesome headgear they're giving up? Also, what are the differences, in game, between capes and cloaks? And, if it's like real life, can Godlike's wear cloaks? Ladolcevita fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 17:56
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rope kid posted:Press Tab. Aaaand I'm a dumbass! Thanks though. rope kid posted:Dual-wielding is inherently faster than single weapon, weapon and shield, or two-handed weapons (which are all roughly the same speed, not accounting for using fast or standard speed weapons). Single weapon (no shield) has an Accuracy bonus. Weapon and shield has a Deflection bonus. Two-handed weapons do more damage. Ok, yeah, I'd read that but I think I had misunderstood it. I think I had assumed that the "speed" bonus was just an artifact of holding two weapons, and thus you were technically attacking twice as often, even though each weapon was attacking at the same overall speed. Is that the effect, or is there some additional inherent speed bonus to dual weilding? Here's what I'm understanding at this point: Normal situation: single weapon, weapon + shield, two hander: Attacks 1 per (weapon speed time unit), then Recovery happens, then attacks 1 per (weapon speed time unit), then recovery, etc. Then dual weilding is (?) Intially, Simultaneously, Right-hand weapon attacks @ 1 per (weapon speed time unity)(* modifier for dual weild? Talent?) and Left-hand weapon attacks at 1 per (weapon speed time unit)(*modifier for dual weild? Talent?); then Recovery for both weapons starts when (either weapon independently?)(second weapon only?) finishes attack; recovery phase completes (for each weapon independently? just the second weapon's timer?) and we start over with fresh attacks for each weapon. Sorry if I'm being dense here. I think in *practical* terms you've already answered my real question --- if you want to maximize # attacks/(time unit), use dual fast light weapons, like stilettos and rapiers.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:02
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Ladolcevita posted:Is it just me or are the racial bonuses for the Godlikes a bit underwhelming given the potentially awesome headgear they're giving up? Yeah but you get to run around with your head on fire so
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Feb 22, 2015 19:06
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rope kid posted:Then, truly, PoE's transformation to MMO would be complete. I've been having trouble getting into the backer beta since the start, mainly due to bugs at first, but now it's a few mechanical/reference issues, and the wiki is full of lies so I don't really have any out of game resources. In particular I have no idea what the rate of fire of any of my weapons are. The descriptions say unhelpful things like "slower" and "faster" in the description, but I don't really have any context for what that means. Without knowing the relative rates of fire, damage and interrupt stats on a weapon seems only very marginally useful information. Of course if we were told the rate of fire, you might as well do the math for us and give us the DPS (and interrupt per second would be cool too), but that's seriously off the table? I may be missing some obvious information somewhere, but that's the main issue keeping me from getting into the game when I tried again just now. That and the fact that chanters don't seem have their flaming weapon chant anymore, which is sad because it was such an easy to understand pretty much always good option... which I guess is why it's not there anymore. Now I actually have to think about what the party needs in an encounter... while only barely understanding most of the mechanics.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:22
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How can I make meaningful choices when the stats are hidden or obfuscated? I'm no mathemagician.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:25
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Eiba posted:While I get where this is coming from, and it's pretty amusing that people would think that, it's also kind of frustrating. Dps would be massively misleading due to armour being a flat damage reduction rather than percentage thing. Assume weapon a hits every 2 seconds for 50 damage. Weapon b hits twice a second for 15 damage. B has a Dps of 30 while a has 25. But against anything with reasonable armour a is going to do far more damage per second. Games that show Dps usually have percentage DR rather than flat DR. So that higher Dps is always better unless you are going for procs and the like.
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Feb 22, 2015 19:48
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Masonity posted:Dps would be massively misleading due to armour being a flat damage reduction rather than percentage thing. Assume weapon a hits every 2 seconds for 50 damage. Weapon b hits twice a second for 15 damage. Yeah, that's why I asked that we see both, though I could have phrased more clearly. I don't really care about slightly misleading as long as all the puzzle pieces are on the table, but I want all the pieces. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 19:51
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31 days left  !I feel like estocs are my favorite weapon as of now. That armor piercing bonus is no joke. Hopefully I can find one in the early game.
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Feb 22, 2015 20:13
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Masonity posted:Dps would be massively misleading due to armour being a flat damage reduction rather than percentage thing. Assume weapon a hits every 2 seconds for 50 damage. Weapon b hits twice a second for 15 damage. I'd still like to know the actual rate of fire though. I don't mind figuring out "DPS vs high DR" and "DPS vs low DR" myself to give me an idea of... what the hell I'm doing, but I need to know the rate of fire for that. Though thinking about it, I'm vaguely aware of more complicating factors like things that bypass some DR... It feels like this game needs a whole calculator or something to get a good impression of what's going on. I know the combat log is pretty detailed, but it's always so messy with a full party. I would probably do better with some sort of training room myself, but that sounds pretty outside the scope of what we can expect, I guess.
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Feb 22, 2015 20:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that's why I asked that we see both, though I could have phrased more clearly. I don't really care about slightly misleading as long as all the puzzle pieces are on the table, but I want all the pieces. Wouldn't it be better to see attack rate instead? Giving damage and Dps means to get an idea of real Dps against different armours you'd have to work the maths back to find attack rate anyway. Damage range, attack rate and interrupt %age would be a more useful set of stats wouldn't they?
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Feb 22, 2015 20:17
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Is there going ot be a new thread for folks that aren't in the beta and new to the game? 
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Feb 22, 2015 20:29
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Masonity posted:Wouldn't it be better to see attack rate instead? Giving damage and Dps means to get an idea of real Dps against different armours you'd have to work the maths back to find attack rate anyway. That would work too. In an ideal world I'd like all four, probably with Damage and Attack Rate displayed and DPS as a mouseover tooltip, just because it would save me from getting out a calculator and breaking immersion.
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Feb 22, 2015 20:30
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Ladolcevita posted:Is it just me or are the racial bonuses for the Godlikes a bit underwhelming given the potentially awesome headgear they're giving up? I agree.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:31
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Sensuki posted:I agree. Honestly all the "at 25% endurance" buffs seem a little sub-par to me but maybe I'm not thinking about them properly. If you're at 25% endurance things are already not good!
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Feb 22, 2015 21:55
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Jastiger posted:Is there going ot be a new thread for folks that aren't in the beta and new to the game?
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Feb 22, 2015 21:57
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Basic Chunnel posted:There aren't really any spoilers at all save for one side quest. It will be fine Eh, poo poo, there are gonna be a few spoilers I'll be counting on people to find. I'm hoping someone with a fast connection figures out where to grab all the various companions before I manage to get the game installed, for example.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:10
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Basic Chunnel posted:There aren't really any spoilers at all save for one side quest. It will be fine I'm less worried about spoilers and more a new intro to the finished game. I am not inthe beta, but am super pumped for the game, but feel like all the chat for the last.....30 pages have been about things I have literally no idea about. It'd be nice to start fresh for all of us not "in the know".
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Feb 22, 2015 22:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Honestly all the "at 25% endurance" buffs seem a little sub-par to me but maybe I'm not thinking about them properly. If you're at 25% endurance things are already not good! No you're on the money. If you're diligent and prevent your character from getting low with good play/good buffs/heals etc you'll never get the bonus. Probably needs another look.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:22
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The point of 25% endurance effects are that they're contingencies. That their benefits aren't visible if you're doing well is almost the point. Depending on when the discs get pressed, the game might get leaked if they're made before launch (read: will). Given the decision we all made they might be pressed after the day-one update so who knows Jastiger posted:I'm less worried about spoilers and more a new intro to the finished game. I am not inthe beta, but am super pumped for the game, but feel like all the chat for the last.....30 pages have been about things I have literally no idea about. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 22:25
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Jastiger posted:I'm less worried about spoilers and more a new intro to the finished game. I am not inthe beta, but am super pumped for the game, but feel like all the chat for the last.....30 pages have been about things I have literally no idea about. I'm imagine we'll get a fresh release thread.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:25
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quote:The point of 25% endurance effects are that they're contingencies. That their benefits aren't visible if you're doing well is almost the point. Most of those ones are all crap compared to the others though, like the Hearth Orlan one or the Wood Elf one or whatever - where you can constantly qualify for the bonus.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:32
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Sensuki posted:Most of those ones are all crap compared to the others though, like the Hearth Orlan one or the Wood Elf one or whatever - where you can constantly qualify for the bonus. Yeah, it's the same issue as with a lot of the Talents -- many of them just seem like newbie traps. I mean I guess most people aren't trying to make Optimal Parties, and even I'm probably going to make my dude Human because Orlans look weird however optimal. I guess most of the racial benefits are equally bad so on the whole it evens out.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:38
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There definitely needs to be a new thread when the game comes out properly. This thing's going to be over 360 pages by then, with a lot of the info/discussion being outdated and irrelevant.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:39
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Cool. Still watching the price like a hawk. Want that limited edition!
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Feb 22, 2015 22:42
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The game is close enough to coming out now that I am starting to daydream about parties. I prefer melee-centric parties so I am thinking Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Enchanter. Then a Druid and Priest for healing and support. It seems like the Druid gets a lot of AOE spells that target enemies only, plus status effects that will allow the Rogue to really go to town. I am thinking of having a Paladin or whatever instead of the Priest but I am assuming I will need stronger healing abilities with having 4 melee characters and not sure I could cut it with 5 melee characters with a Druid.
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