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SubponticatePoster posted:Also, he didn't fire the officer, he suspended him and then the guy got mad and quit.
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Feb 26, 2015 22:36
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I know the "Christian Warrior" thing was a couple pages back, but if you still want a peek into the insanity check this out (the video doesn't say, but it's from Wife Swap). Stick around to the end for the sweet, sweet 
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Feb 27, 2015 00:09
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NuclearEagleFox!!! posted:I know the "Christian Warrior" thing was a couple pages back, but if you still want a peek into the insanity check this out (the video doesn't say, but it's from Wife Swap). That show was called "We Traded Mommies" (On a échangé nos mamans) in France. There was something with a super Christian family too, but it was a very uptight 8 children families with no television etc... Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 00:38
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Morter posted:I'm actually a bit torn on that one. He seems okay providing security, but being told to be part of a choreographed performance in the parade is...a bit odd. Not that I'd be willing to lose my job over it, but it does seem like a clear line. If he volunteered for a motorcycle unit with parade duties, then it's pretty bullshit for him to go "oh but only parades I approve of". How is the force supposed to actually have a parade unit if every time they're supposed to convince each member of it to do their loving job? I don't get to tell my boss "nah I don't want to be around those kind of customers, can I have some support role where I never have to talk to a black/Jew/gay/Irishman?" and keep my job.
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Feb 27, 2015 01:29
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NuclearEagleFox!!! posted:I know the "Christian Warrior" thing was a couple pages back, but if you still want a peek into the insanity check this out (the video doesn't say, but it's from Wife Swap). Holy poo poo, I have never seen a breakdown like that. Her kids looked terrified of her.
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Feb 27, 2015 02:20
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NuclearEagleFox!!! posted:I know the "Christian Warrior" thing was a couple pages back, but if you still want a peek into the insanity check this out (the video doesn't say, but it's from Wife Swap). I like this video and its been around for years. I always wonder what happened to this lady. Edit. sorry to sound like an edgy atheist(i am not) but i never understand how idiots like her exist in the world. I mean does she honestly believe any of the poo poo she spews. all bullshit rejection in front of cameras then later "changes" mind and takes $20,000.00 for gastric bypass. I guess i just dont like extremists of any sort. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 03:54
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Judge Moore is a goddamn idiotquote:“You’re taking any definition of a family away. When two bisexuals or two transgendered marry, how large is that family? Can they marry two persons, one of the same sex and one of the opposite sex? Then, you’ve got a family of four or how many?” http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/02/roy_moore_legalizing_gay_marri.html
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Feb 27, 2015 04:30
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A family of four?!
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Feb 27, 2015 04:32
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When two people get married that is a family of two. That was easy.
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Feb 27, 2015 04:32
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7c Nickel posted:When two people get married that is a family of two. That was easy. Wait I'm confused. How many penises? What?
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Feb 27, 2015 04:54
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Maybe I'm missing something, but the whole "it's for the children" argument seems to open up arguments for more types of marriage than same sex marriage does. If a child does best when their biological parents are married, then shouldn't we allow incest and under age marriage, since it is possible for two people who are related, and a person who is under age, to have children? We should also allow bigamy, since a person who is already married and has children with one person can also have children with another person. The children of these relationships would apparently do best if their parents were married, so should we not do what is best for them?
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Feb 27, 2015 05:14
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shadowvine118 posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but the whole "it's for the children" argument seems to open up arguments for more types of marriage than same sex marriage does. If a child does best when their biological parents are married, then shouldn't we allow incest and under age marriage, since it is possible for two people who are related, and a person who is under age, to have children? We should also allow bigamy, since a person who is already married and has children with one person can also have children with another person. The children of these relationships would apparently do best if their parents were married, so should we not do what is best for them? You're (not you personally, your argument) getting dangerously close to their unspoken logic for "rape babies are fine, no abortions for anyone".
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Feb 27, 2015 07:01
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skaboomizzy posted:You're (not you personally, your argument) getting dangerously close to their unspoken logic for "rape babies are fine, no abortions for anyone". I kinda figured that was their point. If the ABSOLUTE BEST WAY FOR A CHILD TO BE RAISED BY GAWD is by its biological parents, and abortion is unacceptable no matter how the child was conceived, then bigamy, incestuous marriage, and marriage of a rape victim to their rapist should be things they're pushing for, but oh look they're not.
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Feb 27, 2015 07:37
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shadowvine118 posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but the whole "it's for the children" argument seems to open up arguments for more types of marriage than same sex marriage does. If a child does best when their biological parents are married, then shouldn't we allow incest and under age marriage, since it is possible for two people who are related, and a person who is under age, to have children? We should also allow bigamy, since a person who is already married and has children with one person can also have children with another person. The children of these relationships would apparently do best if their parents were married, so should we not do what is best for them? It's a common joke that calling out "won't someone think of the children?!" actually means that they're *not* thinking of the children at all and just making up poo poo. Also, that argument is actually best used for when you're against divorce, not so much against gays marrying.
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Feb 27, 2015 07:37
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ColdPie posted:Wait I'm confused. How many penises? What? Penises count for 2 people, vaginas are 0. So the math adds up.
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Mar 1, 2015 02:44
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:I kinda figured that was their point. If the ABSOLUTE BEST WAY FOR A CHILD TO BE RAISED BY GAWD is by its biological parents, and abortion is unacceptable no matter how the child was conceived, then bigamy, incestuous marriage, and marriage of a rape victim to their rapist should be things they're pushing for, but oh look they're not. Not in public at least. In my experience growing up in deep fundie land, I heard these sorts of awful ideas bandied about by adults all the time from a variety of interconnected Conservative church's. I've been thinking of writing up a post on what Gay Marriage legalization means to the true hardcore fundie types. The short version though is certain sects are going to scream endless bloody murder about this and try to make it a campaign issue in the election. They aren't going to shut up about this any quicker than they shut up about abortion. Also of note, while fundie hate abortion, its not something they perceive as a threat to their own children. Those dirty
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Mar 1, 2015 03:19
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Prester John posted:Not in public at least. In my experience growing up in deep fundie land, I heard these sorts of awful ideas bandied about by adults all the time from a variety of interconnected Conservative church's. I've been thinking of writing up a post on what Gay Marriage legalization means to the true hardcore fundie types. The short version though is certain sects are going to scream endless bloody murder about this and try to make it a campaign issue in the election. They aren't going to shut up about this any quicker than they shut up about abortion. fade5 fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 04:06
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fade5 posted:Do it, totally do it. Your post are always fascinating to read, and I would love to hear first hand how the craziest of the crazies will react to national Seconded. I grew up Evangelical Christian, but last I heard even the Southern Baptist Convention seems to think gay marriage is a lost cause.
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Mar 1, 2015 04:28
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Cythereal posted:Seconded. I grew up Evangelical Christian, but last I heard even the Southern Baptist Convention seems to think gay marriage is a lost cause. While the Southern Baptists are the backbone of reaction in this country, they're probably the most cowardly and wishy washy about it. Every Southern Baptist I know has gone in to full on "Well I've always supported/didn't care about gay marriage/want the government out of marriage all together" denial mode. Schizotek fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 09:33
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"Well the government shouldn't be involved in marriage anyway" says the person who happily takes government marriage benefits and never says a word against government defining marriage nor makes any attempt to abolish it except when bringing it up suddenly in the very narrow context of explaining voting against gay marriage.
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Mar 1, 2015 09:43
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In my experience1, Southern Baptists view themselves as being mainstream Christians. Which means they'll usually (grudgingly) go with the flow while judging everyone else as sinful and all that fun stuff. Or basically, "Well, you're all wrong and going to hell but this is a sinful world and I guess we can't do anything about it!"  1 My experience is 18 years at a Southern Baptist church.
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Mar 1, 2015 09:50
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Schizotek posted:While the Southern Baptists are the backbone of reaction in this country, they're probably the most cowardly and wishy washy about it. Every Southern Baptist I know has gone in to full on "Well I've always supported/didn't care about gay marriage/want the government out of marriage all together" denial mode. Still, the SBC could be bigger assholes about this than they are. Take your silver (or rainbow) linings where you can get them with Southern Baptists. 
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Mar 1, 2015 17:31
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Allright, here goes. My perspective on what Gay Marriage means to hardcore Fundamentalist types. But first, let me clarify that the people I will be describing are not mainstream Christians, but they are the people that influence mainstream Christians rather heavily. They are the Glenn Beck of Christian thought, and the regular Evangelicals would be Fox News in this poorly constructed simile. Much like how Beck gives voice to the deepest crazy impulses of the Republican ID while Fox News profits by dog-whistling to the crazies (Example, Fox will imply Obama is a sekrit Mohammedan, while Beck comes strait out and says it), Fundies scream the craziest poo poo you have ever heard (out of sight of the casual observer) while people like John Hagee profit by writing only moderately less insane books with this crowd in mind. Much like the Tea Party, (that fundies have been increasing their influence in of late) while comparatively few in number, Fundies have an outsized influence on the larger Evangelical movement. Now let me specify what I mean by fundamentalist here. These are not Christians in the traditional sense, they are rather first and foremost authoritarians that happen to use Christianity as an excuse. These are literal american Taliban, and if the rule of law were to ever break down in this country, fundies would try and set up their own version of a Caliphate. Fundamentalism goes back to the 1920's in the US, and started off as a sort of big tent revival movement that swept through the nation. Prior to the emergence of fundies American Christianity was notably more progressive than it is today. For example, the idea of the Earth only being 6,000 years old only caught on in the world BECAUSE pf American Fundamentalists, prior to that the idea of an "Old Earth" was not terribly controversial and not often regarded as a religious issue. To cut a great deal of history short Fundamentalists were generally uninterested in politics (believing that wordly affairs were of little practical concern since the rapture was imminent anyways) until a desperate GOP engaged them as a voting block in the wake of the Nixon fiasco. Modern Conservatism was also born as a result of this strategy of engaging both Fundamentalists and Southern Racists and incorporating them as a rock solid voting block of the GOP. (This movement has long been associated with a certain paranoid style of American politics, the outreach of Conservative groups to fundies in the 70's and 80's has been at times called the "Church-Birch Nexus.) It is hard to explain to the non-fundamentalist what exactly Gay Marriage means to a fundamentalist. Homosexuality represents an open, willful defiance to God's will that they find nearly incomprehensible (to a fundamentalist, the only pleasure one receives from "sodomy" is the thrill of defying your creator in the most perverse way imaginable), and the societal acceptance of such a horror is pure gibbering madness. The way you or I might perceive the scenes of hundreds of children speaking in tongues in Jesus Camp, they perceive the US accepting Gay Marriage. Except worse, because while you and I might feel a great selling of sadness in seeing children manipulated in such a way, fundamentalists feel EXTREME fear in seeing Gay people get married. Let me compare Gay Marriage to abortion. This comparison is valid because fundies are going to be making this comparison a shitload in the days to come because both were brought about via the Supreme Court. While Fundies believe abortion is baby murder (which they detest) it is something they can at least understand. After all, in the Old Testament babies are murdered under God's orders numerous times. (When I was 8 the leader of my cult gave all us 2nd graders a vivid demonstration of how the Israelite s picked up the Canaanites children by their legs and dashed their heads against the rocks as God had commanded.) Baby murder is bad, but it isn't outside the natural order. Fundamentalists understand it. Homosexuality is against God's order, it is one of the vilest, cleverest lies Satan has ever concocted. In the Bible God punish's murders individually, but God flooded the entire planet once because of sodomy (Noah's Flood), and he flattened Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. So as bad as abortion is, Gay Marriage is actually much worse. To the fundamentalist mind legal Gay Marriage is society embracing the most vile, hated act in the entire Bible. Nowhere in the entire fundie worldview is there a sin anywhere near so dangerous as homosexuality. God has destroyed any nation in history that has ever embraced homosexuality, because it is that grievous an insult to His perfect will. By embracing sodomy in such a public way, America is turning its back on God in the most defiant way possible. To the average fundie, this is America signing its own death warrant. Revelations is at hand and the tribulation must begin soon. When I was little I heard over and over that "tolerance of sodomites" would be the very last thing that happened before God's wrath descended down upon the world. It is the final, ultimate, collective defiance of God. Satan's grandest plan to trick us all into forcing God to destroy us. Important to keep in mind here is that the Fundie Skyman is fond of indiscriminate murder. Gay Marriage puts every American at risk. once the Supreme Court decision goes through, every Hurricane, every Tornado, every stray hiker in PA that gets struck by lightning, is going to be God punishing us for Gay Marriage. The only way to protect yourself from God's wrath is going to be to oppose the sodomites at every turn in every way possible. In this fight either you are with God or you are with Satan. Since Satan controls the world, if the world is attacking you, that means it is Satan attacking God. So you will be safe from God if everyone else is condemning your actions. What I am trying to say here is, opposition to Gay Marriage will become a matter of not only personal safety, but safety for your family. When Satan's minions call you an ignorant bigot, that means that you are safe from the inevitable punishment God is cooking up for America. I really want to emphasize here that fundies will not be fighting this battle to win. They will be fighting this battle in that hopes that by publicly martyring themselves they will be spared God's wrath, for them and their families. they will not be saying things in public to win hearts or minds. They will not organize around the idea of actually winning this fight. They expect to lose. They want to lose. They must lose. For in losing they will assure the safety of their church's, their children, and themselves. I would say not to mistake the seeming acceptance of Gay Marriage from the SBC or like minded Evangelicals as some sort of capitulation. I would say (for the type of Evangelical I am familiar with) it is more like the rabbits in Watership Down "Going Tharn", or being so over-stressed they just lock up and freeze in place. For others Gay Marriage will be like the State of Israel, bait for the Jesus trap. (Must happen in order for the rapture to occur.) I expect that once the decision has gone through and there has been some time to process it all, Fundies will either disengage from the political process (unlikely) or we will witness the biggest public outburst of bigotry this country has seen in a long time. In fact, I will even go so far as to suggest that much like how Ferguson served to draw a ton of racists out of the woodwork last year, whatever Fundies eventually do in reaction to Gay Marriage will draw bigots out by the busload. I have no idea what they will ultimately do, except that it will be totally irrational, and divorced from reality. Fundies are hard to predict, especially when they are terrified. All I can really say is that once the decision goes through there will be a massive debate internally that will eventually result in some sort of unhinged reaction pouring out into the public sphere. And I mean unhinged. Like, Bundy Ranch unhinged. The real question is whether or not the GOP manages to put this fire out in time for the primaries. (I 95% doubt they will and I expect every GOP candidate to face questions about this issue) If this fire is not put out in time, a candidates stance on Gay Marriage could become a Conservative litmus test in much the same way that Global Warming and Evolution currently are. I expect that the GOP won't have the moral courage to tell these dogs to shut the gently caress up, so they will try and get them barking at a more socially acceptable target. If you can't shut the dogs up, at least focus them on a target that does not deter the public quite like open bigotry does. If Hillary is the candidate, I expect that target to be women. Otherwise Muslims/The Poor will be the go to boogiemen. I expect the hope will be that if you get the base riled up enough about someone else they will forget about those icky fags. I do not expect this tactic to work, and I anticipate that the 2016 election will be so nasty, so utterly focused in its hatred of the other, that we will all pine for the folksy politeness of the 2012 GOP election season.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:34
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Eschatology is one hell of a drug.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:46
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Kurtofan posted:Eschatology is one hell of a drug. Not just eschatology, but bad eschatology, which is like the crack of the eschatology world: you can put pretty much whatever awful stuff you want in there, the point is to arouse a response. In this case, all-consuming fear.
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Mar 1, 2015 23:39
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Quorum posted:Not just eschatology, but bad eschatology, which is like the crack of the eschatology world: you can put pretty much whatever awful stuff you want in there, the point is to arouse a response. In this case, all-consuming fear. To me as a Christian, it also runs completely counter to the meaning of Christianity. PresterJohn is very right to note that American fundies aren't really Christian per se. Hyperconservative xenophobic bigots the world over have found ideologies to latch on to to paint their beliefs with - ISIS, Nazis, etc - and this particular branch has picked Christianity as the label to wear. This is irrational fear of a changing world they don't understand and are powerless to affect, and more than likely this fear is going to manifest as [more] violence.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:56
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Cythereal posted:To me as a Christian, it also runs completely counter to the meaning of Christianity. PresterJohn is very right to note that American fundies aren't really Christian per se. Hyperconservative xenophobic bigots the world over have found ideologies to latch on to to paint their beliefs with - ISIS, Nazis, etc - and this particular branch has picked Christianity as the label to wear. Not to drag this down into religious debate further buuuuuut: How do you know that you are right and they are wrong? You can't just declare 'No True Christian' and assume they didn't get it right.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:10
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Fundies are actually a lot more closer to "real Christians" than you think, the New Testament has a lot of awful poo poo in it like requiring women to cover their heads and whatnot. Of course this doesn't make them not shitheads, just followers of a shithead religion. Overall most protestant churches are way more off the wall crazy than non-protestant christian churches.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:15
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CommieGIR posted:Not to drag this down into religious debate further buuuuuut: How do you know that you are right and they are wrong? You can't just declare 'No True Christian' and assume they didn't get it right. I don't know that I'm right and they're wrong. I chose to believe that I believe, and always acknowledge the possibility that I might be wrong. Same as if you're going to be intellectually honest about believing in anything, religious or otherwise. No matter what you believe, even if you claim you believe in nothing, there is always implicitly the possibility that you're wrong. And beg your pardon to the above poster, but there is a world of loving difference between the early Christian church and modern-day cults of hatred and fear that would happily murder the poo poo out of "uppity" gays and non-whites if they thought they could get away with it.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:17
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Well, plus this particular form of batty eschatology includes a whole lot of stuff that's not just not from the Bible, it's actually from fanfiction (Paradise Lost, Dante's Inferno), or even the apocrypha of other religions (principally Jewish mysticism). It'd be very, very hard to argue that it has any theological basis, so even in the wacky field of eschatology, this stuff is way out there.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:51
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I was right, that was fascinating (and a little bit terrifying). While I'd like to hope your predictions won't come true, the Ferguson comparison hit a little bit too close to home about revealing hidden bigotry.Prester John posted:Now let me specify what I mean by fundamentalist here. These are not Christians in the traditional sense, they are rather first and foremost authoritarians that happen to use Christianity as an excuse. These are literal american Taliban, and if the rule of law were to ever break down in this country, fundies would try and set up their own version of a Caliphate. That honestly doesn't surprise me, these are the same type of people who supported Uganda's "kill the gays" bill, so they'd probably love ISIL doing stuff like publicly throwing a gay dude off a seven story building (the crowd below then beat the guy to death when he somehow survived the fall, and gee, why does something like that sound so goddamn familiar?  ).
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Mar 2, 2015 02:02
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fade5 posted:So basically they'd start their little Caliphate in America and probably call it the Christan State in the (united) States, or CSIS for short. Basically, yes. There's a reason why in a lot of more liberal Christian circles, it's been a thing for a long while now to say that the only problem the fundie wing of the Republicans have with ISIS is the "Islamic" part. For a sample of this brand of fundie theology versus the Bible, a lot of them love the idea of believer's rapture. Someone who actually reads Revelation will note that neither the word "rapture" nor any comparable event is in the book.
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Mar 2, 2015 02:08
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The idea of the rapture is based completely on a couple of verses in the gospels where Jesus mentions two people being together and then one will be taken and the other left. In Matthew it's two men in a field, in Luke it's two people in a bed and two women grinding meal. It's a pretty flimsy justification for the idea of a rapture, especially pre-tribulation rapture which is pretty much solely based on spite.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:29
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Venom Snake posted:Fundies are actually a lot more closer to "real Christians" than you think, the New Testament has a lot of awful poo poo in it like requiring women to cover their heads and whatnot. Of course this doesn't make them not shitheads, just followers of a shithead religion. Overall most protestant churches are way more off the wall crazy than non-protestant christian churches. If you're talking about the really batshit dominionist types then yeah they could be considered "real Christians" if you define real Christianity as taking the entire bible as literally as humanly possible. This wouldn't apply top your more typical fundie though because they just ignore most of the inconvenient parts to focus on gays and abortions.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:45
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The idea that Christian extremists are going to become even more aggressive and openly hostile once marriage equality becomes the norm is loving scary. Another thing I've heard is that bigots will start concentrating their attacks on transgendered people, since trans folks are starting to become more visible.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:54
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MaxxBot posted:If you're talking about the really batshit dominionist types then yeah they could be considered "real Christians" if you define real Christianity as taking the entire bible as literally as humanly possible. This wouldn't apply top your more typical fundie though because they just ignore most of the inconvenient parts to focus on gays and abortions. Most "Christians" aren't really even christian in terms of actually following the New Testament, which is why a lot of people considering Paul the founder of the Christianity, as people tend to follow his tenets more than the actually the ones laid out in the NT. The Anglican/Episcopal church is the best "mainstream" christian church, but that's only because it has organization which prevents crazy poo poo and also isn't under the thumb of the Vatican/pope. Most protestants consider Anglicans heretics and Catholics consider them lazy people.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:57
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Blue Star posted:The idea that Christian extremists are going to become even more aggressive and openly hostile once marriage equality becomes the norm is loving scary. Another thing I've heard is that bigots will start concentrating their attacks on transgendered people, since trans folks are starting to become more visible. To be honest? I'm not as pessimistic as PresterJohn - I think the South is going to treat married gay couples like they do black people. Like poo poo, in other words, and local government will do nothing about it if it's not actively encouraging it, but I don't think it's really going to be worse per se. But yeah, transgendered people are the logical next target for bigots, not that they aren't already hated with extreme prejudice.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:59
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MaxxBot posted:If you're talking about the really batshit dominionist types then yeah they could be considered "real Christians" if you define real Christianity as taking the entire bible as literally as humanly possible. This wouldn't apply top your more typical fundie though because they just ignore most of the inconvenient parts to focus on gays and abortions. Which is a rather new development in itself. Didn't even the various Protestant sects consider the bible to be almost entirely metaphor for centuries?
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Mar 2, 2015 04:02
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Venom Snake posted:...Most protestants consider Anglicans heretics... I feel like you left out a qualifier here because as written this statement is insane. RaspberryCommie posted:Which is a rather new development in itself. Even hardline biblical literalists believe certain parts are allegory, metaphor, etc. Nobody actually believes that every parable Jesus related actually happened, or that both of the conflicting creation narratives are completely word-for-word true. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 04:04
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Most protestant sects take the bible much more literally than non-protestant ones do. All in all the Catholic Church is far less insane than almost all American christian churches.
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Mar 2, 2015 04:05
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