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mr. mephistopheles posted:I think gun laws are mostly idiotic, but what exactly is ruined for you by not being able to have steel core ammo? what do you think the jackboot ATF thugs of obama's secret army are going to be wearing when they swoop in with silent black helicopters to steal the gold teeth from my mouth, hmm?
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Mar 5, 2015 17:11
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mr. mephistopheles posted:I think gun laws are mostly idiotic, but what exactly is ruined for you by not being able to have steel core ammo? Sedanchair, do tell why we should all have access to steel core rounds. Have deer taken to wearing body armor?
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Mar 5, 2015 17:12
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It probably makes all the other ammo more expensive too because gun owners have fallen so hard for the slippery slope fallacy.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:13
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SedanChair posted:I don't imagine they will, after all manufacturers, distributors and dealers are pretty much the only people who take the time to actually understand gun laws. Here is what the ATF says. http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...ng_purposes.pdf The ATF posted:-
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Mar 5, 2015 17:15
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So as I said, not illegal.InequalityGodzilla posted:This is what I was about to ask since I can tell this is just going to be us arguing a brick wall. I don't see any reason to ban them, they are not used in crimes very often. Deer hunting is irrelevant, the "sporting purpose" exemption is an unconstitutional canard and the purpose of guns is to kill people. If the people are in vehicles, steel core rounds are appropriate.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:16
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SedanChair posted:I don't see any reason to ban them, they are not used in crimes very often. Deer hunting is irrelevant, the "sporting purpose" exemption is an unconstitutional canard and the purpose of guns is to kill people. If the people are in vehicles, steel core rounds are appropriate. i have a constitutional right to fire projectiles through a car to kill someone
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Mar 5, 2015 17:24
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joeburz posted:i have a constitutional right to fire projectiles through a car to kill someone Well, the constitution covers the gun and the ammo in any case, laws determining the appropriate use of force are pretty much up to the states.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:29
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SedanChair posted:So as I said, not illegal. Just illegal to import, manufacture, and distribute.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:30
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joeburz posted:i have a constitutional right to fire projectiles through a car to kill someone I don't know about you but I get pretty raged when a soccer mom in a Hummer decides to cut me off.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:31
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SedanChair posted:Well, the constitution covers the gun and the ammo in any case, laws determining the appropriate use of force are pretty much up to the states. Or the federal government, apparently. What are we debating here, exactly?
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Mar 5, 2015 17:31
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I don't know, I just like to correct sloppy thinking.Armyman25 posted:Just illegal to import, manufacture, and distribute. Except for exemptions listed above. So, not illegal.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:31
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SedanChair posted:
Huh? Edit to include text, highlighting mine: "the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 1985 posted:"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. Such term does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.". Partly due to that part about "may be used in a handgun" becoming applicable to M855 ammunition (which has a steel projectile core) because of the growing availability of cut-down AR pistols, BATFE is seeking to change what "the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes" means, which is entirely within their authority as I understand it. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 17:35
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SedanChair posted:I don't know, I just like to correct sloppy thinking. InequalityGodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 17:36
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it is also incorrect to say that Prohibition made alcohol illegal. you could still possess it!
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Mar 5, 2015 17:42
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SedanChair posted:So as I said, not illegal. Those are strong arguments my friend.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it is also incorrect to say that Prohibition made alcohol illegal. you could still possess it! And purchase it with exemptions for medicinal use. InequalityGodzilla posted:So your argument for why dangerous rounds shouldn't be banned isn't any argument for the sake of recreational shooting anything like that, it's "they aren't used in crimes very often along with "I don't really see any particular reason too." They are. If you're worried about crime, focus on inequality,
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Mar 5, 2015 17:53
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SedanChair posted:They are. If you're worried about crime, focus on inequality, Yes, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives should ignore dangerous trends in firearms and ammunition and focus on inequality.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:55
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SedanChair posted:And purchase it with exemptions for medicinal use. i mean, yeah you're completely right that inequality is the largest factor in crimes, violent or not, but it still doesnt make it less absurd that you just said "steel cores are appropriate when you need to shoot through a vehicle also guns are made for murder" as if it makes the argument for them some how better
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Mar 5, 2015 17:56
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Preeeetty sure inequality isn't responsible for gun nuts screeching about Obama outlawing guns and stockpiling as much AP ammo as they can get their hands on. I'm not worried about crime in general here, I'm worried about some pseudofreeper with 1000x as much ammunition as IQ points opening fire on people. Edit: Well, inequality is responsible for that in a way, but certainly not the one you were talking about.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:57
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joeburz posted:i mean, yeah you're completely right that inequality is the largest factor in crimes, violent or not, but it still doesnt make it less absurd that you just said "steel cores are appropriate when you need to shoot through a vehicle also guns are made for murder" as if it makes the argument for them some how better I think it honestly addresses the thinking behind the 2nd Amendment. We can disagree with the Constitution, but it is the law of the land. The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting or sport, it is about using guns to kill other people.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:00
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Shbobdb posted:I think it honestly addresses the thinking behind the 2nd Amendment. We can disagree with the Constitution, but it is the law of the land. The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting or sport, it is about using guns to kill other people. the intention of the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with the 21st century and pretending it does is dumb
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Mar 5, 2015 18:05
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joeburz posted:the intention of the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with the 21st century and pretending it does is dumb OK but in that case the constitution should be changed.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:17
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SedanChair posted:OK but in that case the constitution should be changed. But the founders  Thomas Jefferson was onto something when he argued that a constitution should be re-written every 20 years or so.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:21
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joeburz posted:the intention of the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with the 21st century and pretending it does is dumb I agree but unfortunately that isn't the way our government works.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:22
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God bless our beautiful wind-powered founding document, Long May it Reign This Second Amendment argument reminds me: all this hand-wringing about lethal injections makes me loving furious. I'm ambivalent about the death penalty, but if you are going to execute people have the courage of your convictions and leave the doctors out of it. We have had perfectly good execution technology for centuries, it's called the guillotine.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:25
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SedanChair posted:Except for exemptions listed above. So, not illegal. Its illegal. If you are caught with AP ammo, you will be fined or arrested.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:31
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CommieGIR posted:Its illegal. If you are caught with AP ammo, you will be fined or arrested. But-but-but his tiny, obnoxiously pedantic loopholes 
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Mar 5, 2015 18:33
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dao Jones posted:God bless our beautiful wind-powered founding document, Long May it Reign Until not too long ago, there were still some states where you could be executed by firing squad. That seemed like a serviceable way of doing it but I guess not.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:36
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I don't know if you guys noticed or not but the entirety of US gun law is made up of "pedantic little loopholes."CommieGIR posted:Its illegal. If you are caught with AP ammo, you will be fined or arrested. Unless it has been determined to meet the sporting purpose exemption (and unless you are being arrested by the FBI, probably no law enforcement officer will be able to tell if your ammo is legal or not honestly).
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Mar 5, 2015 18:37
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CommieGIR posted:Its illegal. If you are caught with AP ammo, you will be fined or arrested. If you already have ammo bought while the stuff was legal, are you suddenly a criminal?
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Mar 5, 2015 18:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you already have ammo bought while the stuff was legal, are you suddenly a criminal? No.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you already have ammo bought while the stuff was legal, are you suddenly a criminal?
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Mar 5, 2015 18:38
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site posted:I like how the wedding ring is just barely in view, but framed to be noticeable, as if being married allows him these lovely thoughts. Oh god thiiiiiiiiiiis. It's just like Chuck C Johnson and every other one of these dicks, they aren't even capable of having a simple picture of themselves taken without some amateur attempt at thought manipulation. "Hey, crop it so my wedding rings in there but make it look like we didn't mean to. I bet some feminazi will get at me on twitter and I'll be like 'Look at the hand in that picture toots, checkmate'" "Here I'll act like I'm on my phone, people will think I'm Woodward or something. I'm just so darn busy I can't even stop talking to people on my phone for an entire 30 seconds to have my picture taken, Sorry world, you'll have to settle for this."
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Mar 5, 2015 18:50
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Part of the issue with gun laws in the United States is even the lax ones on the books are never, ever enforced as they should. Nobody gives a poo poo if you have a stupid huge collection of improperly stormed fire arms if your white, becuase that just means your a good old boy/patriots! But if your not white it means your about 10 seconds away from being shot in the back of the head by a swat team for suspected gang behavior or gun running.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:54
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/21/machine-guns-legal-practical-guide-full-auto/ Here is an article detailing the pedantic little loopholes that allow you to legally own a machine gun. The only legal minigun I've heard of sounded like it would have been someone with a manufacturer license.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:55
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SedanChair posted:OK but in that case the constitution should be changed. Obviously yes.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:56
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I'm generally of the opinion that you should be able to own any weapon you want as long has you have proof that your trained to use it and, not about to go on an insane rampage.
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Mar 5, 2015 18:57
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dao Jones posted:God bless our beautiful wind-powered founding document, Long May it Reign Rich people don't get punished anymore, probably part of the reason the guillotine went out of style  StandardVC10 posted:Until not too long ago, there were still some states where you could be executed by firing squad. That seemed like a serviceable way of doing it but I guess not. If we put the victim on the other side of a car, we'll finally have a use for all this illegal ammunition!
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Mar 5, 2015 19:07
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VideoTapir posted:http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/21/machine-guns-legal-practical-guide-full-auto/ Venom Snake posted:I'm generally of the opinion that you should be able to own any weapon you want as long has you have proof that your trained to use it and, not about to go on an insane rampage.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:09
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quote:"I simply have decided I'm not going to really talk about that issue anymore because every time I'm gaining momentum, the political press says, 'Let's talk about gay rights.' And I'm just not going to fall for that anymore," Carson said. Ha ha ha ha, what a boob
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Mar 5, 2015 19:31
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