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Ernie. posted:how long have you been playing? i generally find half the game trustworthy after d1 My first game was in 2008 which tbh still scares me a little bit. I know it's relatively common, but anyone with very strongly felt convictions on day 1 is always silly because there's like 1% enough to go on by this point
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Mar 22, 2015 18:31
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Ernie. posted:Okay, but I'd still like you to vote CPig if you find him scummy, not based on a case I made. This feels weird because this is exactly what I'd like to be able to do but I feel like it's both unearned and it's making me feel weaker about my read. There's not enough evidence on Cpig really. He has these two fleshed out comments: CapitalistPig posted:Honestly I'm just shocked anyone's taking anything seriously right now, the game just started. CapitalistPig posted:Lol idiot. I don't know how he could say the first if he had read the thread and followed along which he supposedly has. And the 2nd (bolded bit) sounds like he's waiting for someone else to make a case that he can jump on instead of looking for himself. In truth it's not the best evidence, but for me your point kinda wrapped it up. For me he's been the scummiest, weak as the reasons may be, and I can't help but take what you say into consideration because it is a good point. It can't be a case in itself but it can be a lynchpin. I guess I'll unvote if the above posts are actually in character for him. I'm curious what Amoeba thinks because they seemed to have understood your case as well but left it at that.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:34
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100YrsofAttitude posted:I come and go but I wouldn't call myself completely new at it. I'm a naive optimist by nature and I tend to trust the people I like when playing this game, especially when there's so little to go on such as You hedge your bets by claiming ignorance on CPig before voting, and then jump on a joke comment and include some meta for some reason. It's a very very weak vote that you still felt the need to give yourself a way to backtrack out of. There's nothing inherently wrong with making a vote on a weaker case day 1 given we have less to go on, but giving an unrelated out on your vote is trying to take a stand while not making one simultaneously
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Mar 22, 2015 18:35
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imgay posted:I don't know who to vote for. ##no hang i like this guy
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Mar 22, 2015 18:37
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100YrsofAttitude posted:There's not enough evidence on Cpig really. He has these two fleshed out comments: Has Ernie added anything related since CPig has come in to say nothing has been serious? That'd be a big part of Ernie's vote, that CPig was trying to make a serious vote off the back of an obvious joke claim.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:06
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What I don't like about Cpig's posting the most is his Jedit vote. Yes, I know he says it's a thing he always does, but that's exactly why I don't like it. I guess because by default it's a forced joke that always triggers me. In my mind, I see someone force themselves to act like they always act so as to appear town. And if your main goal is to appear town then it's likely you're not. It's something unavoidable for him, but he can always give up the forced Jedit joke vote in the future.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:09
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I've seent he "Trying to make something out of nothing" kind of argument a few times from different people, while it does seem like an absolutely normal thing to say that'd get you scum hits, there are, to me, too many people trying to make slomething out of nothing for it to be a useful argument right now.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:27
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I really do not understand the CPig case he hasn't done a single thing yet but joke around
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Mar 22, 2015 20:52
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Hey who hasn't posted yet so I can prod them to post? Actually I think everyone has posted. Hooray! e: vvv gross EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 21:24
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I probably haven't posted enough so you can prod me 
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Mar 22, 2015 21:25
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Amoeba102 posted:I've seent he "Trying to make something out of nothing" kind of argument a few times from different people, while it does seem like an absolutely normal thing to say that'd get you scum hits, there are, to me, too many people trying to make slomething out of nothing for it to be a useful argument right now. ##unvote. Reading this as cooler heads prevail and I guess I'm overreacting/reaching on this one. Gonna put this aside and give things another look tomorrow. Quandary posted:You hedge your bets by claiming ignorance on CPig before voting, and then jump on a joke comment and include some meta for some reason. It's a very very weak vote that you still felt the need to give yourself a way to backtrack out of. There's nothing inherently wrong with making a vote on a weaker case day 1 given we have less to go on, but giving an unrelated out on your vote is trying to take a stand while not making one simultaneously It's nice to meet you.  It's clear we've never played together.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:29
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100YrsofAttitude posted:sounds like he's waiting for someone else to make a case that he can jump on instead of looking for himself. That sounds accurate. That's kinda my thing regardless of town/scum status. Amoeba102 posted:What I don't like about Cpig's posting the most is his Jedit vote. Yes, I know he says it's a thing he always does, but that's exactly why I don't like it. I guess because by default it's a forced joke that always triggers me. In my mind, I see someone force themselves to act like they always act so as to appear town. And if your main goal is to appear town then it's likely you're not. You are thinking of it like a joke, it's more than that, it's like a special delicate bond Jedit and I share and it must be fulfilled.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:32
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CapitalistPig posted:You are thinking of it like a joke, it's more than that, it's like a special delicate bond Jedit and I share and it must be fulfilled. Whatever you wish to call it, it's forced behaviour. And that's one thing that pings me hard. The fact that you do this everytime makes it more null, but it's going to muddy my reads.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:04
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Even though Ernie was obviously joking about the 3p claim, it's pretty easy as scum to make a claim like that and then say it was a joke, then no one votes for you. I say this in every game, but D1 sucks because we have no info. Might as well just dunk SOMEONE who's acting suspicious so we can get information. D1 we are going in blind and no matter what people say, others will misconstrue it as scummy just because they have to make some content. Also, no lynch D1 is always a terrible idea. So let's just dunk someone who is lurking/suspicious/a lovely player and get it over with.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:54
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Nah D1 is usually pretty good. Sometimes it's great and you can get people from their reactions to stuff. If you go in with your attitude it means you'll probably get no info at all out of it.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:05
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I forgot about this game. I will try to do things.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:11
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100YrsofAttitude posted:To Ernie: After 100 Years asked for additional examples of CapitalistPig voting for Ernie for a fake claim, I decided that it might be interesting to see whether there were any examples of this happening in their post histories. While, it took longer than I anticipated to find similar instances, Ernie's tendency to fakeclaim was brought up repeatedly in games that also included CapitalistPig, such as SA Mafia, which finished less than a month ago. The first instance that I found of Ernie claiming third party on D1 in a game with CapitalistPig was PokeMafia (1). Unfortunately, the Mod ruined the gambit by becoming involved in discussion and Capitalist Pig remained aloof to the claim. He was scum, but mod interference makes it a poor example. In Paranoia! (3), Ernie claimed that his role was “a racist word” which resulted in a vote from Capitalist Pig, the Mafia Roleblocker. A similar instance occurred in An Unfortunate Incident at Golden Ray Studios (3). Ernie role claimed and CapitalistPig retaliated with a vote. Both players were town. As the above examples indicate, Capitalist Pig has been exposed to Ernie's schtick more than a few times, but the issue is far from clearcut, because CPig voted for Ernie for his fakeclaims as both town and scum. The vote doesn't strike me as suspicious as his post claiming that nothing serious had happened (4). This statement reads as someone trying to avoid content after the debacle between myself and PinterestMom and the debate over Ernie's alignment. I also agree with 100 Years when she says that Capitalist Pig seems like he is waiting to jump on content to avoid providing his own (5). CPig has always been a low content poster, but he is especially lurky and avoidant while scum. His latest post (6) reminds me of how he was defended in PokeMafia: "CP, is well, CP. He always is lazy in his votes. He, of course, hides behind this meta as scum, but it is not indicative of alignment (7)." This line of thinking prevents the town from ever making a case against Capitalist Pig, because his content can always be excused as "CPig being CPig." a worthy uhh posted:The point of that comment is that no matter what Ernie says, there will still be doubt about his alignment all game, because backpedaling with "it was a joke" is a non-conclusion for any claim -- you can't unring a bell. a worthy uhh posted:Now he's "caught" CPig with his "gambit" and my vote is standing because I have yet to find a reason to unvote. Eh. I don't necessarily agree with Ernie's gambit, but I doubt there will "still be doubt about his alignment all game." There is nothing for a 3P to gain by brashly announcing his alignment to the world less than an hour into the game. There's no reason to believe that his post was made seriously, especially when you consider his past behavior and the context in which it was made. If you want to vote for Ernie, that's fine. Just find something other than his claim to justify it on, because it is not especially indicative of his scum playstyle. Holding a vote on him for that post and that post alone seems unproductive, especially now that people are talking about other things.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:21
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Jesus christ dude. I bet you have spreadsheets open about this game right now. You do don't you?
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Mar 22, 2015 23:26
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@Amoeba: What do you think of Quandry? I just went through his post history and besides a few jabs at 100 Years for pursuing CPig, his post history reads to me like a lot of non-commital noise and set-up discussion. There's no actual scumhunting. I refer in particular to:Quandary posted:As a general rule Lynch all third parties is a good plan Quandary posted:Maybe we should hold off on specific role speculation until we see if he was just kidding or not. If that's his real win condition then he is actively anti town though and realistically is worse than a miller claim Quandary posted:While there are of course exceptions, Lynch All Third Parties is generally a good plan because Quandary posted:A worthy uhh I really doubt ernie's claim is real and backtracked. That would be an extremely dumb move as a third party, plus the win condition he described would be extraordinarily difficult Quandary posted:You hedge your bets by claiming ignorance on CPig before voting, and then jump on a joke comment and include some meta for some reason. It's a very very weak vote that you still felt the need to give yourself a way to backtrack out of. There's nothing inherently wrong with making a vote on a weaker case day 1 given we have less to go on, but giving an unrelated out on your vote is trying to take a stand while not making one simultaneously It rubs me the wrong way, especially in light of the suspicion on CPig.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:26
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In retrospect, Ernie's use of the word "controversial" when claiming makes it pretty clear that he was referring something that had already happened and not making a serious claim.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:27
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CapitalistPig posted:Jesus christ dude. i am running an analysis of competing hypotheses on this game right now. it is dissecting your playstyle, making furious beeps and boops as it gets closer to uncovering your alignment.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:30
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Quandry definitely reads like he believed Ernie's claim. But then he's all about it being faked. He seemed more into exploiting an easy vote than CPig. I'm also inclined to say Ernie is more guilty of exploiting an easy vote than CPig, but less than Quandry is.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:30
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Pinterest Mom posted:In retrospect, Ernie's use of the word "controversial" when claiming makes it pretty clear that he was referring something that had already happened and not making a serious claim. It being jokephase should have been enough to realise that it was not a serious claim.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:31
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Start analysing everyone who took it seriously rather than jokingly playing along.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:33
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Including me? 
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Mar 22, 2015 23:34
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A worthy Uhh: Realises it's a joke, joke votes accordingly but gets brought back to believing it. Reads town to me from this because it's other players that seem to make them consider it to be real but doesn't really believe it. More like considers it. Mostly confused at points. AnonNarco: Naive new player. Could go either way. Definitely sounds trusting of Ernie. QPQ: Realises it's fake right away, and cites an old game. Vote is based off Ernie lying by the looks of it. Not a scum response necessarily. PMom: Trusting, but doesn't want to use it to vote Ernie. Quandry: Trusting, wants to vote. Winvirus: It's winvirus, I read it as a non serious vote. Opopanax: Incredulous anyone believes the fake claim. Some more people joking around after this. I don't really want to do a running commentary for every drat post because the discussion evolves. So I'm looking at initial and early responses. But if you look at it, QPQ and Quandry are the worst of the initial responses, to me. Quandry because as has been stated, seemed to go seriously with it and to go with a vote, but says later it was an obvious joke on Ernie's part. QPQ knows it's fake but doesn't really follow through with "why would scum make this fake claim". Not necessarily scummy but not fully thought out.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:44
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:Even though Ernie was obviously joking about the 3p claim, it's pretty easy as scum to make a claim like that and then say it was a joke, then no one votes for you. Fair enough ##vote anon
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Mar 22, 2015 23:48
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Okay I will say I am in the game now. I have a night zero investigation (I am cop) and winvirus is scum.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:49
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Opopanax posted:Fair enough ##vote anon Anon has played a single-digit number of games, saying D1 is useless isn't a reason to vote for her.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:51
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Pinterest Mom posted:Anon has played a single-digit number of games, saying D1 is useless isn't a reason to vote for her. She said she wanted to vote somebody so I'm helping
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Mar 22, 2015 23:54
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Opop is always helpful.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:10
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CCKeane posted:Okay I will say I am in the game now. Sorry, you missed Jokephase / fakeclaim time. =(
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Mar 23, 2015 00:12
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Amoeba102 posted:Sorry, you missed Jokephase / fakeclaim time. =( Who says I am fakeclaiming?
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Mar 23, 2015 00:20
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Jokeclaiming. You've taken Winvirus' old shtick and used it against him.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:21
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Are you explaining Keane's own joke back at him?
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Mar 23, 2015 00:22
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Yes, yes I am. I am killing his joke.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:22
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This is so hard to follow. Jokes, fake jokes, and dead jokes.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:24
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It's not a joke, I'm laying an early breadcrumb down so that when I claim cop I won't be countered. Sure mafia may try to kill or roleblock me, but I'm really bulletproof so good luck with that.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:24
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The Joke, Self-Aligned Jester, was killed D1.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:25
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And you fools that wanted to vote the Joke out.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:26
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