USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

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Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Cliff Racer posted:

I'm still not sure why people say Obama did so badly in that debate though, to be fair, I listened to it on the radio rather than watched it on TV. I guess I just want something different in my presidents than most people do.

Looking at it on TV it looked like Romney was lecturing Obama and Obama was just looking down at his desk, or half asleep.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 04:56

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# ? May 13, 2024 10:51

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

My Imaginary GF posted:

Unlike Obama, Romney has created no jobs at IRS.

Yup you're exactly right Romney created zero jobs in the IRS.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 04:57

Meg From Family Guy: Feb 4, 2012

Mauser posted:

is it possible for posting privileges be restricted by forum?

my posts are better than yours:

Mauser posted:

it's logical if you think about it from a capitalist perspective in that pure capitalism's end game is enslavement of labor. Mix in a little just world fallacy and you get the slavery apologist in the year of our lord 2015 edit: the gay thing is a whiplash inducing non sequitur though

# ? Mar 29, 2015 05:03

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Meg From Family Guy posted:

my posts are better than yours:

He's not wrong.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 05:05

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

Cliff Racer posted:

I'm still not sure why people say Obama did so badly in that debate though, to be fair, I listened to it on the radio rather than watched it on TV. I guess I just want something different in my presidents than most people do.

that's the game of Expectations

honestly you'd probably still call it a clear win but, Obama being Obama, people expected him to clown all over Romney (the way he did in the other two debates) and he did not.

For Romney, "not as bad as expected" was a clear win, given context.

PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 29, 2015

# ? Mar 29, 2015 06:07

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Yeah the lead up to the first debate was weeks of Romney gems regarding the heights of trees and what not so people were expecting Obama to blow him out of the water. When Obama held back and seemed disinterested in the debate, the low expectations placed on Romney made him the winner since he didn't get eaten alive.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 06:53

Dick Milhous Rock!: Aug 9, 1974

I also don't think Obama was ready for Romney to flip on practically all of his policy positions and lie outright about new stuff in a whiplash-inducing tack back to the center after the comedy of the GOP nomination process.

I think Obama prepared to debate Romney's primary positions and was completely off balance when RMoney just decided that he could act like the last eighteen months of campaigning didn't exist.

It was pretty telling that the people fact checking him on that were apoplectic, and Obama's performance in the next few debates were all about nailing him to the wall when he tried to pull that poo poo again.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 07:27

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

TheOneOutside posted:

I also don't think Obama was ready for Romney to flip on practically all of his policy positions and lie outright about new stuff in a whiplash-inducing tack back to the center after the comedy of the GOP nomination process.

I think Obama prepared to debate Romney's primary positions and was completely off balance when RMoney just decided that he could act like the last eighteen months of campaigning didn't exist.

It was pretty telling that the people fact checking him on that were apoplectic, and Obama's performance in the next few debates were all about nailing him to the wall when he tried to pull that poo poo again.

The correct approach for the second debate would be Romney tackin hard ride again and surprising Obama in a manner which he would be unprepared to react towards. The third debate, heck, why even show up when you've won the first two? "I've decided to take it easy on the President and not deliver a third whooping to him on policy issues."

# ? Mar 29, 2015 07:41

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

TheOneOutside posted:

I also don't think Obama was ready for Romney to flip on practically all of his policy positions and lie outright about new stuff in a whiplash-inducing tack back to the center after the comedy of the GOP nomination process.

Which was pretty poor preparation on his part considering (a) Romney flipped on practically all his previous policy positions and lied outright to get the Republican nomination in the first place, and (b) one of his advisers signaled the Romney campaign's intention to do that exact thing again in the general election.

quote:

Romney senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom was asked on CNN whether Romney may be forced so far to the right by rivals Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich in the primary race that it might hurt him if he's the party's nominee in the fall. Fehrnstrom responded: "I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. Everything changes. It's almost like an Etch A Sketch � you can kind of shake it up and we start all over again."

Obama should have been loving ready to hammer Romney with quotes from the Republican debates.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 07:42

Cheesus: Oct 17, 2002; Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.; Yam Slacker

TheQat posted:

so Arkansas is going to enact a law like the Indiana one. What I'm wondering is how republicans cope with the dissonance of their vision of CEOs as infallible god-kings and Tim Cook telling them not to do this

Clearly the problem is that these bills are simply misunderstood!
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/indiana-religious-freedom-bill-fallout

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/indiana-religious-freedom-bill-fallout posted:

Conkle, who has written extensively on religious legal issues, said he didn't know of any cases under the similar state laws or the federal statute, which dates to 1993, where a court had sided with a religious objector in a discrimination case.

"This 'license-to-discriminate' argument that seems to have this relentless repetition is just legally wrong," Conkle said Friday. "It is as if you just keep repeating something often enough it takes on a life of its own."

Of course they'd be open to wording to explicitly prohibiting discrimination (yes, I know it was posted earlier)!
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/27/3639808/georgia-religious-liberty-bill-dies-glorious-death/

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/27/3639808/georgia-religious-liberty-bill-dies-glorious-death/ posted:

As in Indiana, proponents of Georgia�s bill have tried to argue that it has nothing to do with discrimination. Rep. Mike Jacobs, an LGBT-friendly Republican, decided to test this theory by introducing an amendment that would not allow claims of religious liberty to be used to circumvent state and local nondiscrimination protections. Supporters of the bill, like Rep. Barry Fleming (R), countered that the amendment �will gut the bill.� Nevertheless, the House Judiciary Committee approved the amendment with a 9-8 vote, three Republicans joining the Democrats in supporting it.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 12:34

Ralepozozaxe: Sep 6, 2010; A Veritable Smorgasbord!

My Imaginary GF posted:

The correct approach for the second debate would be Romney tackin hard ride again and surprising Obama in a manner which he would be unprepared to react towards. The third debate, heck, why even show up when you've won the first two? "I've decided to take it easy on the President and not deliver a third whooping to him on policy issues."

And then Romney won the presidency and now sits in the white house to this day.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 14:12

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

Fried Chicken posted:

So the NYT has a bit of a space filler on Bill Clinton... containing the buried lede from hell:

That would be right before the first debate, where Romney beat the hell out of Obama.

He was just setting up Obama's triumphant comeback!

# ? Mar 29, 2015 14:37

Mo_Steel: Mar 7, 2008; Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together; Fun Shoe

My Imaginary GF posted:

"I've decided to take it easy on the President and not deliver a third whooping to him on policy issues."

"Please proceed Governor."

In what hosed up world would you think that's a good idea? You remember McCain proposed skipping a debate in 2008 right? Because the outcome would be Obama having a primetime spot on TV all to himself to just talk up his accomplishments.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 15:02

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Mo_Steel posted:

You remember McCain proposed skipping a debate in 2008 right? Because the outcome would be Obama having a primetime spot on TV all to himself to just talk up his accomplishments.

No, they considered a postponement because they had work to do as Senators dealing with the financial crisis.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 15:39

CaptainCarrot: Jun 9, 2010

McDowell posted:

No, they considered a postponement because they had work to do as Senators dealing with the financial crisis.

Except that McCain, Biden, and Obama weren't even on any of the relevant committees, IIRC, let alone senior members thereof, which is why Obama kept right on going with the campaign, since his presence would not have been particularly helpful in hearings.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 16:12

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

quote:

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence defended the new state law that's garnered widespread criticism over concerns it could foster discrimination and said Sunday it wasn't a mistake to have enacted it.

Pence appeared on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" to discuss the measure he signed last week prohibiting state laws that "substantially burden" a person's ability to follow his or her religious beliefs. The definition of "person" includes religious institutions, businesses and associations.

Since the Republican signed the bill into law Thursday, Indiana has been widely criticized by businesses and organizations around the nation, as well as on social media with the hashtag #boycottindiana. Already, consumer review service Angie's List has said it will suspend a planned expansion in Indianapolis because of the new law.

Pence, a Republican, did not answer directly when asked six times whether under the law it would be legal for a merchant to refuse to serve gay customers. "This is not about discrimination, this is about empowering people to confront government overreach," he said. Asked again, he said, "Look, the issue here is still is tolerance a two-way street or not."

Pence told the Indianapolis Star on Saturday that he was in discussions with legislative leaders over the weekend and expects a clarification bill to be introduced in the coming week. He addressed that Sunday, saying, "if the General Assembly ... sends me a bill that adds a section that reiterates and amplifies and clarifies what the law really is and what it has been for the last 20 years, then I'm open to that."

But Pence was adamant that the measure, slated to take effect in July, will stick. "We're not going to change this law," Pence said.

Some national gay-rights groups say it's a way for lawmakers in Indiana and several others states where such bills have been proposed this year to essentially grant a state-sanctioned waiver for discrimination as the nation's highest court prepares to mull the gay marriage question.

Supporters of the law, including Pence, contend discrimination claims are overblown and insist it will keep the government from compelling people to provide services they find objectionable on religious grounds. They also maintain courts haven't allowed discrimination under similar laws covering the federal government and 19 other states. Arkansas is poised to follow in Indiana's footsteps, with a final vote expected next week in the House on legislation that Republican Gov. Asa Hutchinson has said he'll sign.

Josh Earnest, President Barack Obama's spokesman, appeared on "This Week" just after Pence, and said the debate isn't a political argument.

"If you have to go back two decades to try to justify what you're doing today, it may raise questions," Earnest said, referring to the 1993 federal law Pence brought up. He added that Pence "is in damage-control mode this morning and he's got some damage to fix."

State Rep. Ed DeLaney, an Indianapolis Democrat, told a large, boisterous crowd Saturday gathered outside of the Statehouse to protest that the law creates "a road map, a path to discrimination." Rally attendees chanted "Pence must go!" several times and held signs that read "No hate in our state."

Pence addressed the critics Sunday, saying: "This avalanche of intolerance that's been poured on our state is just outrageous." Asked if he would be willing to add sexual orientation to the list of characteristics against which discrimination is illegal, he said, "I will not push for that. That's not on my agenda, and that's not been an objective of the people of the state of Indiana."

U.S. Sen. Joe Donnelly, a Democrat, released a video statement on his Facebook page Saturday, saying: "We'll work together to reverse SB101 and we'll stand together to make sure that here in Indiana, we welcome everyone, every day."

Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard, a Republican who opposed the law, has said he and other city officials will talk with businesses and convention planners to counter the uproar.

Angie's List had sought an $18.5 million incentive package from Indianapolis' City-County Council to add 1,000 jobs over five years. But founder and CEO Bill Oseterle said in a statement Saturday that the expansion was on hold "until we fully understand the implications of the freedom restoration act on our employees."

The Indianapolis-based NCAA has expressed concerns about the law and has suggested it could move future events elsewhere; the men's Final Four will be held in the city next weekend.

From http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/pence-effort-clarify-religious-objections-law-underway-29984447?singlePage=true

This was a really weak defense. To be fair, it is of the indefensible. If you want to see the video and transcript, it's here. My favorite quote from the exchange:

quote:

PENCE: Hoosiers don't believe in discrimination. I mean, the way I was raised in a small town in southern Indiana, you're kind, you're caring, you're respectful to everyone. Anybody that's been in Indiana for five minutes knows that Hoosier hospitality is not a slogan, it's a reality. People tell me, I went to your state, people are so nice.

(Emphasis mine)

Can we get a fact-check? Is this actually true?

# ? Mar 29, 2015 16:41

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

William Bear posted:

Can we get a fact-check? Is this actually true?

From the wording of the bill, the bill has only one purpose: To empower Corporations and Businesses to have the same legal 'religious exemption' rights as a person does.

He knows exactly what the bill is for, but is pandering to his base constituents that wanted a bill like this.

Arkansas is getting ready to pass a similair law, all in the name of 'Stopping Government Overreach' which is basically code for ' :qq:

We're being oppressed by not being allowed to discriminate :qq:

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Mar 29, 2015

# ? Mar 29, 2015 16:48

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

CommieGIR posted:

From the wording of the bill, the bill has only one purpose: To empower Corporations and Businesses to have the same legal 'religious exemption' rights as a person does.

He knows exactly what the bill is for, but is pandering to his base constituents that wanted a bill like this.

Sorry, I know that. I asking if Indianans are really nice.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 16:53

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

William Bear posted:

Sorry, I know that. I asking if Indianans are really nice.

Nothing west of and including Ohio is nice.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:01

CroatianAlzheimers: Jun 15, 2009; I can't remember why I'm mad at you...

William Bear posted:

Sorry, I know that. I asking if Indianans are really nice.

Yeah, sure. Indianans are nice enough if you're a straight, white Christian. Same with most other Midwestern states.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:08

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

William Bear posted:

From http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/pence-effort-clarify-religious-objections-law-underway-29984447?singlePage=true

This was a really weak defense. To be fair, it is of the indefensible. If you want to see the video and transcript, it's here. My favorite quote from the exchange:
(Emphasis mine)

Can we get a fact-check? Is this actually true?

Indiana has a bizarre culture that's hard to define unless you've experienced it. Some towns in Indiana you're better off passing through without stopping, even to fill your gas tank. Other towns will be full of the friendliest people you can imagine. Southern Indiana however has that "southern" feel to it with all of the bigotry and ignorance you would expect.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:11

Bob James: Nov 15, 2005; by Lowtax; Ultra Carp

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Yeah, sure. Indianans are nice enough if you're a straight, white Christian. Same with most other Midwestern states.

William Bear posted:

Sorry, I know that. I asking if Indianans are really nice.

The word you are looking for is "Hoosier".

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:16

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Yeah, sure. Indianans are nice enough if you're a straight, white Christian. Same with most other Midwestern states.

The last good thing to come out of Indiana almost destroyed the Union. If Hoosiers got ya down, come to Chicago. We don't care if your employees play in Boystown, or Greektown, or, hell, Bridgeport after work. What they do in their personal life is their business.

Now watch this NCAA slam dunk

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:19

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Indiana has a bizarre culture that's hard to define unless you've experienced it. Some towns in Indiana you're better off passing through without stopping, even to fill your gas tank. Other towns will be full of the friendliest people you can imagine. Southern Indiana however has that "southern" feel to it with all of the bigotry and ignorance you would expect.

This applies to most states larger than RI, really.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:22

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Nothing west of and including Ohio is nice.

Minnesota is the nicest

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:24

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

gently caress You And Diebold posted:

Minnesota is the nicest

The phrase "Minnesota Nice" exists for a reason.

At least in Alabama, they'll let you know their hate to your face.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:31

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Look people are fairly nice in most Midwestern cities, but they're horrific shitheads in Midwestern suburbs. It's just that there more of the latter than the former.

E: with the exclusion of Chicago. They're all assholes there.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:32

Karnegal: Dec 24, 2005; Is it... safe?

William Bear posted:

Can we get a fact-check? Is this actually true?

Checks as false? I mean they clearly DO believe in discrimination.

If the question is "are people nice." I would say that the people in Indianapolis are quite nice during Gen Con, which is saying a lot because a mass of nerds is not the most appealing group of people to serve, but all of the Indy businesses are super awesome about it (it's almost like they recognize that it generates a lot of revenue and they want people to feel good so they come back again).

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:33

Slaan: Mar 16, 2009; ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

People in Indy and Bloomington are pretty great. Outside of there? Yeah, not really. I plan to move far away from Indiana once I get my degree done.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:37

Grey Fox: Jan 5, 2004

quote:

Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard, a Republican who opposed the law, has said he and other city officials will talk with businesses and convention planners to counter the uproar.

"Well, I suppose we could offer even more economic incentives to keep the job creators around and screw the city even worse in the long term..."

It just keeps getting worse.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:41

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

William Bear posted:

This was a really weak defense. To be fair, it is of the indefensible.

If politicians don't want to be in a position where they have to defend the indefensible they probably shouldn't be in the GOP right now.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:50

Good Citizen: Aug 12, 2008; trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump

My Imaginary GF posted:

The phrase "Minnesota Nice" exists for a reason.

At least in Alabama, they'll let you know their hate to your face.

No they won't. They'll say 'bless your heart' then talk endless poo poo as soon as youre out of earshot

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:51

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

If you don't hear 'bless your heart' as 'gently caress you,' I dunno what to say. Here in Chicago, we may get called assholes, at least we'll tell you to gently caress off to your face.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:54

Mitt Romney: Nov 9, 2005; dumb and bad

Cliff Racer posted:

I'm still not sure why people say Obama did so badly in that debate though, to be fair, I listened to it on the radio rather than watched it on TV. I guess I just want something different in my presidents than most people do.

Romney appeared a lot more quick-witted and on his game than Obama. Obama appeared disinterested and in addition Romney surprised Obama by blatantly flipping his positions from the primary (which he was barely called out for).

One example was he clearly supported cutting capital gain taxes during the republican primary. At the 1st debate Romey was like "I never proposed cutting capital gain taxes- that's ridiculous and I'm offended you would lie about that Mr. President. You're just painting me as a bad person.", Obama replied something like "you dont support capital gains tax cuts? that's news to me". Obama appeared unorganized and bumbling even though he was 100% correct and Romney was lying quite a bit.

There were internal campaign stories that came out afterwards that detailed Obama not taking debate prep seriously and being lackadaisical about it. For example he should've had the quote (or multiple quotes) from the GOP primary in which Romney said he wanted to cut capital gains taxes instead he replied with a weak response.

Romney came out quick and almost as a "bully" which is what his base wanted. Obama came out weak, unprepared and appeared uncaring. Some result of Obama's lack of debate prep was him unprepared to deal with the blatant lying by Romney and his assumption that the media would properly call Romney out on his blatant lies (flipping his positions from just a few months prior), which sort of goes into post-truth politics.

Mitt Romney fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 29, 2015

# ? Mar 29, 2015 17:57

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

My Imaginary GF posted:

If you don't hear 'bless your heart' as 'gently caress you,' I dunno what to say. Here in Chicago, we may get called assholes, at least we'll tell you to gently caress off to your face.

Southern hospitality!

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:05

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Good Citizen posted:

No they won't. They'll say 'bless your heart' then talk endless poo poo as soon as youre out of earshot

I think that's what he meant

Minnesota nice is just polite passive aggression

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:12

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Pellisworth posted:

I think that's what he meant

Minnesota nice is just polite passive aggression

That's the same problem I have with Hoosiers. They'll play civil to your face and talk poo poo behind your back. We don't got time for that bullshit in a real city, we're man enough to talk poo poo and take poo poo so long as we know where we stand. And for that, we get called assholes. Well, guess what? Auntie May down in Indy gonna bless your heart, and soon as you leave her kitchen, hope you die. Auntie Inga in the cities gonna do the same, inbetween a screed on Somali immigrants and native welfare queens.

Hoosiers? They don't wanna do something any more, they wanna be somebody. You ain't poo poo in this world if you don't do nothing, your title is meaningless unless you can back it up with acceptable action. Guess what? Governor Pence wants to be somebody more than he wants to do something constructive, just like the rest of Hoosierville. You get the elected officials who best represent the electorate, and frankly, Indiana electorate is poo poo, absolute poo poo, get out Fried Chicken, re-list your number, get in bettylu's good graces, and make the jump to Team Rahm.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:20

CroatianAlzheimers: Jun 15, 2009; I can't remember why I'm mad at you...

FAUXTON posted:

Look people are fairly nice in most Midwestern cities, but they're horrific shitheads in Midwestern suburbs. It's just that there more of the latter than the former.

E: with the exclusion of Chicago. They're all assholes there.

Checks out.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:27

Good Citizen: Aug 12, 2008; trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump trump

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Checks out.

As an rear end in a top hat currently living in Chicago I can confirm

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:32

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# ? May 13, 2024 10:51

Karnegal: Dec 24, 2005; Is it... safe?

Good Citizen posted:

As an rear end in a top hat currently living in Chicago I can confirm

Seconding. This whole state is a poo poo hole.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 18:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol March presents the 8th Annual Debt Limit Fight: Fracas in the Caucus

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