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Now the story of an anime forum that lost patience, and the one poster who had no choice but to sperg about robots It's Arrested Development
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Mar 29, 2015 18:59
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Clawshrimpy posted:That's exactly it though. Someone throws a water balloon at you. You have one second to catch it. You can either move to catch it right now, or you can get half-way through saying "stop" to try to talk the water balloon out of hitting you. That was the timeframe Simon was working with. Sometimes there is no time to "think of a better way." Edit: I mean, I guess he could've used that second to jump backwards to keep Rossiu's brains from splattering on his shoes or something. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 18:59
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I hope this isn't breaking the off-site helldumping rule, but I had to know drat.
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Mar 29, 2015 18:59
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Namtab posted:When are we making clawshrimpy watch Monster? Not sure I'm ready for Shrimpy's take.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:02
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It looks to me like you think Simon did some mean things once and that colors every one of his actions thereafter as toxic masculinity, even actions that are merciful like stopping a friend who betrayed him and left him to die from killing himself.Namtab posted:
It is like if every evil action resets the good points counter back to zero out of spite before good actions start to count again. I'm curious, Shrimpy, what would someone like Gain or Simon have to do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Do you hope that Gain gets killed or do you hope that he becomes a better person?
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Mar 29, 2015 19:09
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GimmickMan posted:It looks to me like you think Simon did some mean things once and that colors every one of his actions thereafter as toxic masculinity, even actions that are merciful like stopping a friend who betrayed him and left him to die from killing himself. In the very last episode I watched and reacted to, I was legit dissappointed Gain didn't die while hold up the self-destructing black hole thing. I suppose Gain could maybe redeem himself if he like completely changes as a person but I know that's never going to happen. He's too comitted on being an immoral rear end in a top hat by this point, especially since we're already 13 episodes in of a 26 episode show. Gurren Lagann was 26 episodes and Kamina/Simon/every other jerk never improved. in fact, Simon started off good but got worse and worse. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 19:11
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clawshrimpy realtalk are you aware of the concept of "empathy" or how like, literary fiction is based around the idea of making characters appealing and relatable even and especially if they differ in motivations or morality to the person consuming the media
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Mar 29, 2015 19:14
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GimmickMan posted:It is like if every evil action resets the good points counter back to zero out of spite before good actions start to count again. I'm curious, Shrimpy, what would someone like Gain or Simon have to do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Do you hope that Gain gets killed or do you hope that he becomes a better person? It's more like if you do evil then you can never be good again no matter what you do. Unless you start off evil, in which case it doesn't matter what you do so long as you show some humanity even once, no matter how small and you're a deep and morally grey character who can do no wrong. Also, did you forget this post? Clawshrimpy posted:Gainer barely gets Sara out in time and Gain has to hold the self-destruct black hole in place for Gainer and Sara to get out, but Gainer saves Gain too, dammit....That was a perfect chance to kill the rear end in a top hat off and the show blew it! Which seems like an actively malicious post and if it were directed against a real person would appear to be yet another rather hypocritical break of Shrimpy's own moral values.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:15
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Clawshrimpy posted:In the very last episode I watched and reacted to, I was legit dissappointed Gain didn't die while hold up the self-destructing black hole thing.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:16
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tsob posted:It's more like if you do evil then you can never be good again no matter what you do. Unless you start off evil, in which case it doesn't matter what you do so long as you show some humanity even once, no matter how small and you're a deep and morally grey character who can do no wrong. Also, did you forget this post? It's possibly for someone who was horrible to become good again, but it just requires a huge personal change from that person, sadly, the only example I can come up with would be breaking rule 2.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:16
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I can guess who you're talking about and I can pretty much guarantee that doesn't really count because the characters you're probably thinking about had been controlled by an external antagonist to transform them in to different people who barely resembled their real selves, which they went back to after that had been undone. That isn't a change in personality, it's a restoration of the real one. Do you think there is anyone you've ever met in real life who even remotely resembles the kind of characters you actually like out of interest Shrimpy? Or are the people you know and like closer to the people in shows you dislike? Do you actually believe yourself the kind of good person you project yourself on to in the few shows you like? I have to assume you do, but I doubt you'll find many echoing that belief.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:22
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The only other decent example I can come up with is Will from Heroman, Will acts like a horrible bully to Joey in the beginning, and because he wanted to prove he can be a great person to his sister, he broke into the Skrugg ship and got himself and his friend turned into Skruggs. They fight Heroman and Joey for a while, but Will.... after a while, his feelings begin to change, and even though he's a Skrugg still, he rebels against Kogorr and helps Joey and Heromon out. like that toher character in that show I can't talk about. Will had a redemption arc and I doubt Gain is getting one of those. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 19:30
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Basically from what I can make out Simon was only a good character up until he decided to stop being the meek person who needed encouragement to get involved in things and instead becomes proactive in helping himself and others. I've said it before Clawshrimpy, but I really hope you're never put into a situation where you have to make a decision that affects others.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:34
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Clawshrimpy posted:It's possibly for someone who was horrible to become good again, but it just requires a huge personal change from that person, sadly, the only example I can come up with would be breaking rule 2. I was hoping you did not literally mean you would rather see Gain dead than reformed, that is very harsh. Imagine if we judged you based on your previous actions and were secretly hoping you'd break the thread's rules and got banned instead of hoping you became a better poster. You should try to think more positively of people who are trying to do good and hope they do better in the future, even if they make a lot of mistakes and you don't agree with them. On another note, "huge personal change" is pretty much how I would describe what you need to do if you want to enjoy 95% of fiction that exists, let alone if you want to get along with flesh and bone human beings.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:35
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Clawshrimpy posted:The only other decent example I can come up with is Will from Heroman, Will acts like a horrible bully to Joey in the beginning, and because he wanted to prove he can be a great person to his sister, he broke into the Skrugg ship and got himself and his friend turned into Skruggs. They fight Heroman and Joey for a while, but Will.... after a while, his feelings begin to change, and even though he's a Skrugg still, he rebels against Kogorr and helps Joey and Heromon out. So the exact same arc of being a dick but then learning to soften up and be nice that Holland, another character you bring up as an example of irredeemable jerks, has?
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Mar 29, 2015 19:36
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:So the exact same arc of being a dick but then learning to soften up and be nice that Holland, another character you bring up as an example of irredeemable jerks, has? Thing is Holland is consistantly a Jerk, Will is only a jerk in the very, very beginning.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:37
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We're 26 pages in. Are you able to identify yet, in your own words, why your posting is bad?
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Mar 29, 2015 19:37
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Clawshrimpy posted:Thing is Holland is consistantly a Jerk, Will is only a jerk in the very, very beginning. No he's not. Around the time the fights with the Beams family happen he's starting to soften up. His character moves on from accepting his failures to ensuring the future. When Talho has her big change, right around the Nirvash's upgrade and Renton and Eureka's relationship maturing, he stops being outwardly aggressive towards Renton because he sees other people around him maturing and takes that lesson to heart. Hell, in the season one finale he admits that Renton has grown up. "I see you've finally learned to talk big..." which is important because before Renton was a small crying baby who didn't portray any real confidence in himself of his beliefs. The only differences are that You like one of these and that one of these is a protagonist in a show specifically about how people act and grow up and aren't perfect but that's okay and the other is an idealized super hero show about kids for kids so everything and everyone is super simple. And honestly the former is because of the latter. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 19:41
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Clawshrimpy posted:In the very last episode I watched and reacted to, I was legit dissappointed Gain didn't die while hold up the self-destructing black hole thing. Again, what did Kamina/simon/every other jerk actually do that was so horrible? The philosophy of team gurren was to be self confident, own up to your mistakes, be generally good people, constantly self improve, and escape impossible situations by bending reality with your sheer force of will. This is what they preached. What is so bad about that? Keep in mind that both Yoko, a woman, and Leeron, a man who is antithetical to traditional manliness and the idea of conformity based on gender, are both fully accepted members of team gurren. So what was their great sin that they compounded over the course of the anime?
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Mar 29, 2015 19:43
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DrOswald posted:Again, what did Kamina/simon/every other jerk actually do that was so horrible? The philosophy of team gurren was to be self confident, own up to your mistakes, be generally good people, constantly self improve, and escape impossible situations by bending reality with your sheer force of will. This is what they preached. What is so bad about that? But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. Team Gurren honestly is no less morally questionable than the Exodus is.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:57
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Clawshrimpy posted:But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. What about their methods are terrible? Do not just say "it's bullying" or "it's wrong", explain why it's bullying or wrong or whatever.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:59
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Clawshrimpy posted:But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. They're not terrible methods. Once again, as everyone ever has said, context is important and not everything (read: almost nothing) is set in stone always good or bad. Also please don't ignore my post above.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:59
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Clawshrimpy posted:But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. Team Gurren honestly is no less morally questionable than the Exodus is. Clawshrimpy, I believe everyone in this thread is well aware by now that you don't think highly of the TTGL main crew. You don't need to repeat that. They are asking for specific examples why.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:00
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Clawshrimpy posted:But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. Team Gurren honestly is no less morally questionable than the Exodus is. Maybe people should have stayed safe underground in their little communities which were essentially dictatorships E: One of which p.much practiced eugenics-lite
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Mar 29, 2015 20:02
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Namtab posted:We're 26 pages in.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:07
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Clawshrimpy posted:But they just wrap what might be good intentions in terrible methods. Team Gurren honestly is no less morally questionable than the Exodus is. What terrible methods? You keep on insisting this but refuse to give any examples. Be specific.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:13
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DrOswald posted:What terrible methods? You keep on insisting this but refuse to give any examples. Be specific. Kamina throwing rocks at Simon, hitting him, passivele aggressively insulting him, etc. and then Simon turns around and treats everyone else the same way when he transforms.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:14
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Clawshrimpy posted:Kamina throwing rocks at Simon, hitting him, passivele aggressively insulting him, etc. and then Simon turns around and treats everyone else the same way when he transforms. Give an example of Kamina being passive-aggressive towards Simon.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:15
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Namtab posted:We're 26 pages in.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:17
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Droyer posted:Give an example of Kamina being passive-aggressive towards Simon. Literally in the second episode, right before Kamina attacks two two Ganmen with a loving sword, Simon picks him up and tries to escape, and his passively agressive insults him for running away.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:18
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Clawshrimpy posted:Literally in the second episode, right before Kamina attacks two two Ganmen with a loving sword, Simon picks him up and tries to escape, and his passively agressive insults him for running away. So we can add passive-aggressive to the list of concepts you don't understand.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:19
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Clawshrimpy posted:Kamina throwing rocks at Simon, hitting him, passivele aggressively insulting him, etc. and then Simon turns around and treats everyone else the same way when he transforms. As yes the one off joke makes him a terrible person. Also besides the joke instance you notice how no one in the show treats any of these as the absolute evils you do? Hmm maybe context here is important. Also don't ignore this post please ZenMasterBullshit posted:No he's not. Around the time the fights with the Beams family happen he's starting to soften up. His character moves on from accepting his failures to ensuring the future. When Talho has her big change, right around the Nirvash's upgrade and Renton and Eureka's relationship maturing, he stops being outwardly aggressive towards Renton because he sees other people around him maturing and takes that lesson to heart. Hell, in the season one finale he admits that Renton has grown up. "I see you've finally learned to talk big..." which is important because before Renton was a small crying baby who didn't portray any real confidence in himself of his beliefs. I genuinely want to hear why you ignore one characters changes and development and not the others. Clawshrimpy posted:Literally in the second episode, right before Kamina attacks two two Ganmen with a loving sword, Simon picks him up and tries to escape, and his passively agressive insults him for running away. Please stop using words you don't understand or know. Active aggression like insulting is by definition the opposite of Passive-Aggression and even then he wasn't insulting him in some giant emotional way, just saying that he thought this act was cowardly. People act that way towards close friends and family, because they know they can be honest with how they feel. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 20:20
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Clawshrimpy answer my question please
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Mar 29, 2015 20:21
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Namtab posted:Clawshrimpy answer my question please I'm only not answering because I don't know the answer.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:24
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Clawshrimpy posted:Kamina throwing rocks at Simon, hitting him, passivele aggressively insulting him, etc. and then Simon turns around and treats everyone else the same way when he transforms. Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Now we can discuss this. Since we have already discussed in great detail about how punching someone to save their life (and in the case of kamina punching simon, the life of dozens of others) is not nearly as problematic as you seem to think it is, lets instead go with the insults. Can you give some specific examples of things Kamina said to Simon that were insulting and problematic?
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Mar 29, 2015 20:26
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I'd like to know if Clawshrimpy thinks out views hold any validity, whether we are entitled to hold them or if he thinks we are wrong and he just needs to make us see that for our own good? I suspect it's the latter frankly, which makes him no different from a bully himself really, since he wants to brainwash everyone to share his own toxic views. If it's the former, then why did he spend years trying to convince much the same people they were wrong about a pair of shows instead of just accepting they thought differently and moving on? The fact that he can never acknowledge context or other people's opinions or methods in even a tv show would suggest it's definitely the former. I also wonder how spiteful Shrimpy is, and suspect he'd actually be rather violent if given the chance to give some consequence free revenge to some of the people who used to bully him. tsob fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 20:27
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DrOswald posted:Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Now we can discuss this. The second episode "How long are you going to keep running, Simon?"
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Mar 29, 2015 20:27
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tsob posted:I'd like to know if Clawshrimpy thinks out views hold any validity, whether we are entitled to hold them or if he thinks we are wrong and he just needs to make us see that for our own good? I suspect it's the latter frankly, which makes him no different from a bully himself really, since he wants to brainwash everyone to share his own toxic views. If it's the former, then why did he spend years trying to convince much the same people they were wrong about a pair of shows instead of just accepting they thought differently and moving on? You cannot grasp the true form of Shrimpy's posting
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Mar 29, 2015 20:30
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Clawshrimpy posted:The second episode That...that's not even insulting. That's just asking a question regarding someone's problems. What the hell?
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Mar 29, 2015 20:30
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tsob posted:That...that's not even insulting. That's just asking a question regarding someone's problems. What the hell? Kamina's tone (in both languages) comes off as very passive aggressive.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:30
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