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I kinda think they need to swap the Cleveland to a much higher tier or nerf it, because it feels better than the tier 7 and 8 US cruisers by far. Those guns just spray death, and no cruiser has enough armor to avoid crits from them. Come to think of it, a lot of ships seem to be in the wrong tier. This is especially true amongst destroyers where the stupid increasing torpedo reload times and marginal/non existent improvements in gunnery, hp, and armor mean that they generally get worse as you go up. The crazy long range torpedoes that you eventually get are nice, but that's near the end, and in the meantime you have a wide gulf of turds. Battleships have the crazy good Fuso followed by the not so good Nagato. Carriers, I think, are the only class where everything seems to be in the right place, due to the relatively simple aircraft progression? Adventure Pigeon fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 17:12
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What's wrong with Nagato? Same guns but less turrets, less AA, higher tier?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:46
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It appears that bombers can shoot back at fighters. Not worthwhile at all against same tier planes but my upgraded tier 7 torp bombers somehow took down two fighters from a squad from some poor sod with an unupgraded tier 6 carrier. Unless I'm completely mistaken.Adventure Pigeon posted:Carriers, I think, are the only class where everything seems to be in the right place, due to the relatively simple aircraft progression?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:57
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Ihmemies posted:What's wrong with Nagato? Same guns but less turrets, less AA, higher tier? Without having driven it, I think the major problem is that the Kongo, Fuso and Nagato are all fundamentally similar ships built in the Dreadnought era, who received rebuilds in the 20s and 30s that modernised them but didn't totally overcome their age. Excepting a couple of 30s drawings, Japanese battleships essentially go from Dreadnoughts to  Yamato , unlike the Americans with a steady, well stocked progression from Dreadnought to super battleship and the British, French and Germans with strong early entries that kind of peter out around the end of the treaty battleship era, or roughly tier 8.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:03
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Ihmemies posted:What's wrong with Nagato? Same guns but less turrets, less AA, higher tier? It's got bigger, less accurate guns, and less turrets. At tier you only need like one cruiser to provide more than enough AA.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:29
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NTRabbit posted:Without having driven it, I think the major problem is that the Kongo, Fuso and Nagato are all fundamentally similar ships built in the Dreadnought era, who received rebuilds in the 20s and 30s that modernised them but didn't totally overcome their age. Excepting a couple of 30s drawings, Japanese battleships essentially go from Dreadnoughts to For some reason Wargaming decided not to include the Ise class, Tosa class or the designed but unbuilt Kii class. They'd help stretch the tech tree, but they were still armed with terrible low-angle secondaries and burdened with too many turrets due to the apparent inability of the IJN to design a triple turret until the Yamato class. The Myogi needs to be cut from the tech tree- its only got a 6 gun broadside and its tier 4 counterpart on the proposed US tree, USS Arkansas, has 12.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:50
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NTRabbit posted:Without having driven it, I think the major problem is that the Kongo, Fuso and Nagato are all fundamentally similar ships built in the Dreadnought era, who received rebuilds in the 20s and 30s that modernised them but didn't totally overcome their age. Excepting a couple of 30s drawings, Japanese battleships essentially go from Dreadnoughts to Umm. It goes Dreadnought, super Dreadnought, post-Jutland battleship, treaty battleship, post treaty battleship (or whatever you want to call them). Of those gaps, the one where the previous generation is most capable of punching above its weight is post-Jutland vs. Treaty. The treaty ship may be tougher and or faster, but something like the 1920 south dakota has 12 16" rifles and isn't going to be a slouch in a fight and even the Amagi's carrying more and bigger guns than treaty ships. I think the nine's a design with nine 16"s that'll mostly gain armor if anything. Nagato gains a faster flying shell and thicker deck armor that makes her better at long range salvoes but in general the differences between calibers are way undermodeled in terms of damage. However some of my best salvoes have been in a nagato, so there might be something to its gunnery.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:59
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I have been a little disappointed with the lack of American Battleships, but my Fuso always brings me back to reality. Speaking of reality, why do I keep running into goons who keep shooting at me? Talk about rude.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:11
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xthetenth posted:Umm. It goes Dreadnought, super Dreadnought, post-Jutland battleship, treaty battleship, post treaty battleship (or whatever you want to call them). The Fuso and Nagato were both Super Dreadnoughts to begin with if you want to get that picky. Meanwhile the Japanese tier 8 is a pre-treaty battlecruiser from 1920 that was never built, going up against an escalated treaty battleship from 1940 in the North Carolina, and probably also the well known 30s treaty battleships like KGV, Richlieu and Bismarck which have significant advances in armour layout devised in the intervening years. Japan just has a notable gap in production/development right in the middle of their battleship tree with a massive step between the tier 10 and anything they can field at 9, can't be helped. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 20:43
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NTRabbit posted:The Fuso and Nagato were both Super Dreadnoughts to begin with if you want to get that picky. Meanwhile the Japanese tier 8 is a pre-treaty battlecruiser from 1920 that was never built, going up against an escalated treaty battleship from 1940 in the North Carolina, and probably also the well known 30s treaty battleships like KGV, Richlieu and Bismarck which have significant advances in armour layout devised in the intervening years. First off, an all-or-nothing battleship with 16" rifles and 6 inches of deck armor (vs 2 on the Fuso) is exactly the sort of ship post-Jutland is a phrase used to describe. I think part of the problem is battleship plunging fire not being a thing many people do. The category is basically them, the Colorados and the Nelsons (although US armor schemes were way ahead of the game). As far as treaty ships go, North Carolinas and South Dakotas are unusually strong, and ten 16" rifles vs a more common eight 15" rifles is a definitely noticeable firepower disparity, potentially enough to make up the Amagis having pretty weak armor. The paper design I've seen getting talked about for nine is a pretty strong late interwar 9x16" design that could be pretty viable.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:40
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NTRabbit posted:Bismarck which have significant advances in armour layout devised in the intervening years. Actually, the Germans didn't really advance in armor layout, due to not building many capital ships between the war. The Bismarck had an armor profile similar to the Bayern class, some 20 years older. Bismarck     I'm going to work on more standardized comparisons to better show the similarities.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:45
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I forgot the cardinal rule, Germany sucked at everything!
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Mar 30, 2015 21:50
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Nazi Germany as a regime was basically starting from scratch in ship design, and had a shorter period of time than an Imperial German naval architect took to train fully in which to design ships. Combined with a government like a middle eastern dictatorship that substituted aggression for competence, overweight remnants of last war were pretty much inevitable. Bismarck's guns getting knocked out in an hour by a ship 15 years her elder and ~7k tons lighter is still a loving embarrassment.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:57
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KonigRasnake posted:Speaking of reality, why do I keep running into goons who keep shooting at me? Talk about rude. Are you asking for parlay? I typically won't shoot at a goon if I recognize them or they salute. At least not until the end of we are the last standing or if they come gunning for me early on then all bets are off.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:59
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I saw Slim Jim Pickens in a game yesterday. First goon I saw playing this game that I could recognize. I would've said hi, but I actually only noticed his name as he was sinking. 
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Mar 30, 2015 22:00
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xthetenth posted:Nazi Germany as a regime was basically starting from scratch in ship design, and had a shorter period of time than an Imperial German naval architect took to train fully in which to design ships. Combined with a government like a middle eastern dictatorship that substituted aggression for competence, overweight remnants of last war were pretty much inevitable. It was a reference to how the Germans made poo poo tanks, poo poo weapons, poo poo planes, and also poo poo ships, but -> Krupp Steel uber alle; this is a common theme in WoT
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Mar 30, 2015 22:03
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demonR6 posted:Are you asking for parlay? I typically won't shoot at a goon if I recognize them or they salute. At least not until the end of we are the last standing or if they come gunning for me early on then all bets are off. Adventure Pigeon posted:I kinda think they need to swap the Cleveland to a much higher tier or nerf it, because it feels better than the tier 7 and 8 US cruisers by far. Those guns just spray death, and no cruiser has enough armor to avoid crits from them. Come to think of it, a lot of ships seem to be in the wrong tier. This is especially true amongst destroyers where the stupid increasing torpedo reload times and marginal/non existent improvements in gunnery, hp, and armor mean that they generally get worse as you go up. The crazy long range torpedoes that you eventually get are nice, but that's near the end, and in the meantime you have a wide gulf of turds. 
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Mar 30, 2015 22:05
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Insert name here posted:Always shoot goons first, even if it costs you the game and your life. Especially if you costs you the game and your life. I like to wait till the end hoping we both survived so we can bump into each other over and over infuriating everyone as the game results in a draw. No luck so far though and every time I have run into Rossmum on the other team he dies almost immediately. I've had bad luck with the Peniscola as well so don't feel bad. I can at least land damaging hits with the Cleveland. Same with the Nagato, I'm cursed with that one too.
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Mar 30, 2015 22:11
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NTRabbit posted:It was a reference to how the Germans made poo poo tanks, poo poo weapons, poo poo planes, and also poo poo ships, but -> Krupp Steel uber alle; this is a common theme in WoT Describing Nazi Germany is something I enjoy.
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Mar 30, 2015 22:14
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Missing Name posted:Actually, the Germans didn't really advance in armor layout, due to not building many capital ships between the war. The Bismarck had an armor profile similar to the Bayern class, some 20 years older. Funnily though Bismarck is a good example of the advantage the Nagato should have over the Fuso - if memory serves the guy who found the wreck noticed that only Rodney's 16" shots penetrated the main belt, the 14" guns on KGV just left massive dents instead (and the Nelson's 16" guns weren't even very good for their size). The USN went from 12x14" on 3 successive classes, to 8x16" on the Colorado class, so they presumably saw something in it as well.
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Mar 30, 2015 22:15
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demonR6 posted:I like to wait till the end hoping we both survived so we can bump into each other over and over infuriating everyone as the game results in a draw. No luck so far though and every time I have run into Rossmum on the other team he dies almost immediately.
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Mar 30, 2015 22:18
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You know how you're sometimes out in your carrier trying to decide which battleship to torp when suddenly one of them starts crying about planes being overpowered? The decisions becomes very easy. Remember kids, always taunt when you torp someone who gets upset. Tears and rage give bonus xp on top of the warm and fuzzy feeling. I've had no luck with islands today. First my kongo managed to beach itself twice in the same game when using the autopilot. I always use waypoints when autopiloting to plan a smooth route that never ever touches land or is within a kilometer of it, unless I'm in a destroyer. Still tried to ram islands to the death. I was busy shooting in the zoomed view and since no opponent were shooting towards me I wasn't concerned with navigating manually. A short while later I was carriering and it smashed into an iceberg while I was busy setting up a pincher torp attack. No idea how. Later I was trying to sail my destroyer through a small gap between an island and some nearby rocks when it suddenly changed to full rudder right without any input from me. I'm pretty sure I didn't press any buttons at all since I was set up perfectly straight to go through. Also the auto beacher wasn't on. Weird.
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Mar 30, 2015 23:00
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People who complain about how planes are OP are hilarious: "CVs are no skill they can drop torps on you and you don't even have time to dodge!" *watches planes line up and make a run, doesn't attempt to move until the last second and eats every torp*
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Mar 30, 2015 23:04
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Insert name here posted:People who complain about how planes are OP are hilarious: "CVs are no skill they can drop torps on you and you don't even have time to dodge!" *watches planes line up and make a run, doesn't attempt to move until the last second and eats every torp*
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Mar 30, 2015 23:16
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Poil posted:Yup. But often they don't change course or speed at all. It's at times like those that as a cruiser fan I'm torn between saving the moron or letting natural selection do its thing.
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Mar 30, 2015 23:24
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Insert name here posted:Oh yeah this is pretty good too. Way back in the WoT closed beta before platoons were a thing the only way to play with friends was to hit battle at the exact same time and hope you got into the same battle (since the matchmaker didn't exist at the time so it just threw the first 30 tier 3s and up into a match) so whenever I got onto the opposite team as my friend we'd try to be the last ones alive and then just deliberately drive past each other not shooting. Both teams get really really mad if you are the last two and refuse to shoot at each other, bump into each other over and over (tanks) or waffle shots intentionally. I know on more than one occasion with friendlies on opposite teams we would track each other with no intention of killing and the match draws. The tears are endless.
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Mar 30, 2015 23:56
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The pubbies in this game are amazing. I was in a Kuma and not playing very smart, some guy in the Alpha reward ship utterly destroyed me in a few well aimed salvoes. For a second I thought huh, he was pretty good to completely wreck me in just a few AP shots. Then he ran straight into the torps I fired at 7k from a bad angle just as I died. I laughed, so he called me an "RNG CBT bot" and proceeded to rage at me for the whole round: 
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Mar 31, 2015 00:52
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OSad posted:I saw Slim Jim Pickens in a game yesterday. First goon I saw playing this game that I could recognize. I was basically alt-tabbed all of last night doing suicide runs in the Hatsuharu. You'll never see me in tier 7 again! I usually can't kill any battleship goons, because they know ancient and mysterious anti-destroyer tactics like "turn away from destroyer"
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Mar 31, 2015 01:00
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I usually can't kill any battleship goons, because they know ancient and mysterious anti-destroyer tactics like "turn away from destroyer"
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Mar 31, 2015 01:27
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OSad posted:I saw Slim Jim Pickens in a game yesterday. First goon I saw playing this game that I could recognize. I noticed him too. Then I realised he was dead and it saddened me that I was the only goon left. 4 seconds later, his whole salvo of torpedos sank me and we both out of the game. Good times.
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Mar 31, 2015 01:38
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Here is my very professionally done sketch comparing 20 years of armor development in German battleships: The upper belt was cruiser-level protection at best, but was retained after two decades. Also note that the Bismarck had almost no sloping belt armor, and that the main armored deck does not protect anything above the engine rooms and magazines. Go on, read til your eyes bleed. This rips into the armor of the Bismarck in full detail, while comparing it (somewhat unfavorably) to contemporary rivals. http://www.combinedfleet.com/okun_biz.htm Some highlights: - The underwater protection was awful, which was critical to the ship's eventual destruction. - The deck armor would actually have guaranteed nothing would penetrate the machinery and stuff in the citadel... at the cost of everything else above it being essentially unprotected. - every other navy used "All or Nothing" Missing Name fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 01:40
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I think the concept of "pulling range" is alien to most pubbies. Charge into five battleships in a Cleveland? Don't run away, just keep pressing. You'll beat them. Oh, I'm fighting a Cleveland in my Peniscola, how about I close to 8km so I can't miss. Naw, his 7 second reload won't mean anything. One thing I really like about this game, apart from shippy goodness is that I'm much better at it for some reason compared to tanks. The Peniscola, despite being one of the uglier cruisers on the US line with its inverted turret arrangement and low freeboard (though it does have a nice clipper bow), isn't a bad ship. It plays differently than the Steamer and isn't OP for its tier, but it's not bad. I love getting three citadel hits on another Peniscola and pretty much two salvoing it.   
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Mar 31, 2015 01:44
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Pubbies get so mad when you do unexpected thing that throw them off their game. Was driving the Kongo through the DD Fjord on Big Race today and an Omaha was trying to cut in front of me and presumably deliver a stylish close-range torp kill. Except I sped up and turned into him, he dropped them within arming distance and then I just t-boned him midships and saield straight through his wreck. Guy went completely nuclear in chat when I announced my ram kill in the traditional fashion. ("How's my driving?"  ) I was laughing too hard to actually remember taking screenshots.  Had an almost re-run of that with a division of goons, but that pubbie didn't take the bait. Also, I'm apparrently a crazed lunatic when driving a Kongo because I almost always seem to get into secondary range against cruisers or other BBs at least once per match. Also, I love running straight at people while my guns reload, so their shots often just hit my bow, overpen the superstructure or bounce off the turrets' glacis. Pubbies driving cruisers or DDs have an adorable habit of panicking and doing the dumbest poo poo when ~40k tons of BB come rolling straight at them at 30 knots.
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Mar 31, 2015 01:55
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I once pulled up literally right next to an enemy Kongo in mine and we duked it out Age of Sail style and it was boss as hell
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Mar 31, 2015 02:15
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Missing Name posted:Here is my very professionally done sketch comparing 20 years of armor development in German battleships: It's basically protecting against shots going through the belt into the citadel at the expense of a lot of stuff being left unprotected, such as things it needed to shoot, and that protection is really useful until you consider underwater hits can go right through. The sloped plate at a huge angle is nifty though, and if they'd combined it with an otherwise modern layout they would've basically had the Richileiu's armor scheme.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:20
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http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-044.htm The Working Environment for German Warship design in WWI and WWII I think some other goon posted this in another topic a long time ago - anyway this is an article about the differences in design philosophy between the Reichsmarine and Kriegsmarine. Quite a good read imho.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:32
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I think the only real difference we will see from WWII era German ships in game was their design to be 'unsinkable by flooding'. which could lead to less torp damage or less flooding damage/chance
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Mar 31, 2015 02:39
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Insert name here posted:I once pulled up literally right next to an enemy Kongo in mine and we duked it out Age of Sail style and it was boss as hell I love getting a battleship near another battleship, it looks like battlestar galactica with all the secondary batteries opening up. Especially if there are some planes overhead. Its too bad the secondary gunners are drunk as poo poo though, sometimes its possible to risk driving a DD into secondary range to get a good shot off. CitizenKain fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 02:40
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Here's the DropBox link to the rising sun flag I made fro those that wanted it.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:44
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Insert name here posted:I once pulled up literally right next to an enemy Kongo in mine and we duked it out Age of Sail style and it was boss as hell Having all your secondaries and AA guns firing at once while you fire broadsides into someone at point-blank range is pretty rad. You are just spitting death and destruction in all directions.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:53
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