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gay picnic defence posted:Apparently. And somehow how an inept record keeping system meant that the missing records simply must have contained evidence of banned drugs. Too bad our justice system requires actual proof of wrongdoing to record a conviction, and not just the collective will of Big Footy. Correct me if I'm off the mark here. But this isn't in an Australian court, but rather an AFL court. So the evidence required wouldn't have to be as strong.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:46
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gay picnic defence posted:Apparently. And somehow how an inept record keeping system meant that the missing records simply must have contained evidence of banned drugs. Too bad our justice system requires actual proof of wrongdoing to record a conviction, and not just the collective will of Big Footy. Mate your boys were on the gear
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Mar 31, 2015 07:46
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EvilElmo posted:But this other Dank guy, he's not a player, or an ex-player. He's bad, but he's gone now. AFL is a clean sport now that he has gone. It's all due to him. Nobody else. The players taking Clenbuterol are going to be the ones falling off the cliff.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:46
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Schlesische posted:The players taking Clenbuterol are going to be the ones falling off the cliff. Nah mate. Tainted beef. Got any evidence of them injecting it?
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Mar 31, 2015 07:47
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Nutsngum posted:Rumour mill has also stated the the two players are another two from Collingwood. If you return a positive test and become provisionally suspended are you allowed to train with the club? Cause if so that would rule out Hickey cause he trained today. But on the other had: didn't Saad play 1 game after it was revealed in the news? I have no idea how any of this poo poo works.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:48
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gay picnic defence posted:Apparently. And somehow how an inept record keeping system meant that the missing records simply must have contained evidence of banned drugs. Too bad our justice system requires actual proof of wrongdoing to record a conviction, and not just the collective will of Big Footy.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:49
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gay picnic defence posted:If ASADA couldn't find a paper trail after 2 years of searching it probably doesn't exist. Yes, because Essendon kept few documents and shredded the rest it totally makes them innocent of running a club wide doping program. EvilElmo posted:But this isn't in an Australian court, but rather an AFL court. So the evidence required wouldn't have to be as strong. Because of organisations like Essendon and the US Postal cycling team not keeping records, destroying records, generally behaving like criminal organisations, and being beyond legal compulsion, doping cases had the burden of proof reduced from beyond reasonable doubt to comfortable satisfaction. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 07:51
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Periphery posted:If you return a positive test and become provisionally suspended are you allowed to train with the club? Cause if so that would rule out Hickey cause he trained today. But on the other had: didn't Saad play 1 game after it was revealed in the news? I have no idea how any of this poo poo works. Based on Buckley last night, Keefe and Thomas didn't train with the club upon being notified
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Mar 31, 2015 07:53
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EvilElmo posted:Nah mate. Tainted beef. If even one of the Essendon players had returned a positive test at any point this would have played out very differently. Keefe, Thomas and Crowley are proper hosed.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:54
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Periphery posted:If you return a positive test and become provisionally suspended are you allowed to train with the club? Cause if so that would rule out Hickey cause he trained today. But on the other had: didn't Saad play 1 game after it was revealed in the news? I have no idea how any of this poo poo works. No idea at all. Not much really makes sense in all this. Could Hickey be linked purely because of where he came from in relation to the other two players? Who knows at this stage.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:00
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Gough Suppressant posted:If even one of the Essendon players had returned a positive test at any point this would have played out very differently. Keefe, Thomas and Crowley are proper hosed. Luckily they took some experimental drugs that can't be detected.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:00
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EvilElmo posted:Nah mate. Tainted beef. you can take clen orally
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Mar 31, 2015 08:11
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EvilElmo posted:Correct me if I'm off the mark here. More evidence is admissible in the AFL tribunal but assuming those three retired judges did their job properly it would have been weighted the same as it would have been in a court of law. However the statements that ASADA's two key witnesses refused to sign off on that ASADA apparently relied upon so heavily would not be admissible in a normal court of law I pretty sure so it is swings and roundabouts. NTRabbit posted:Yes, because Essendon kept few documents and shredded the rest it totally makes them innocent of running a club wide doping program.  Sometimes when there is no or insufficient evidence that something took place it means it didn't actually happen.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:15
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gay picnic defence posted:More evidence is admissible in the AFL tribunal but assuming those three retired judges did their job properly it would have been weighted the same as it would have been in a court of law. However the statements that ASADA's two key witnesses refused to sign off on that ASADA apparently relied upon so heavily would not be admissible in a normal court of law I pretty sure so it is swings and roundabouts. Come on man. What do you think Essendon was actually doing then?
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Mar 31, 2015 08:17
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Nutsngum posted:Come on man. What do you think Essendon was actually doing then? Saline and vitamin B of course
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Mar 31, 2015 08:19
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Nutsngum posted:Come on man. What do you think Essendon was actually doing then? Buying illegal drugs and keeping them for everyone to look at.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:20
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Graic Gabtar posted:Ahh, good times. Get the gently caress out of my thread you piece of poo poo pox on society
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Mar 31, 2015 08:24
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Ah good, maybe now we can move past the Essendon doping thing. LOL JK looking forward to 12 months more of appeals.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:25
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Tim Watson just said "a valuable lesson has been learned, we can be sure no one will be keeping shoddy records in the future". The greatest troll
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Mar 31, 2015 08:30
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What's most likely to happen is the appeals drags on for another two years, until newly appointed Melbourne coach simon Goodwin is revealed as the mastermind of it all.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:32
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It should also be pointed out that Stephen dank reiterated his belief days ago that TB-4 was not a banned substance at the time. Why would he do that if that wasn't what he used? I am glad the players got off, because they were not at fault at all, but don't try to pretend it didn't happen, because it did, and everyone knows it, and the only reason Essendon isn't getting done for it is that unlike the Storm they had the good sense to not keep records of their systematic cheating.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:36
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Please not Tom Hickey. Please. Just one off-season. One. (Jason Holmes come on doooown)
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Mar 31, 2015 08:37
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Nutsngum posted:Come on man. What do you think Essendon was actually doing then? gently caress knows. But you don't throw the book at a bunch of players just because you can't prove one way or another what they took. What if, God forbid, they were actually just given AOD and thymomodulin like Dank said they were? There could be a miscarriage of justice! In case anyone cares, this is a decent summary of why a circumstantial case was unlikely to succeed in situations like this where the allegations are pretty serious: http://www.wiseworkplace.com.au/_blog/WISE_Blog/post/how-does-briginshaw-vs-bringshaw-affect-the-balance-of-probabilities/ Gough Suppressant posted:What's most likely to happen is the appeals drags on for another two years, until newly appointed Melbourne coach simon Goodwin is revealed as the mastermind of it all. Probably. ASADA has invested so much time and effort in this that there would be questions asked if they didn't pursue it as far as they can. It sucks (and the CAS may well be an open court so it might be in the media even more than before), but that's the way these things go I guess.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:39
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Gough Suppressant posted:
Wut. Yes they were. They're responsible for their own bodies. 'My father made me do it' doesn't fly for a 16 year old Olympic gymnast, why would it fly for a 20+ footballer?
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Mar 31, 2015 08:45
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EvilElmo posted:Wut. From everything we know the club doctors and sports scientists straight up lied to the players. It is not reasonable to expect every member of a 45 person squad to have enough knowledge in chemistry to audit their clubs supplements program.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:50
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EvilElmo posted:Wut. That is one of the problems with the WADA code in that it is tailored for individual athletes but not really designed for team sports like the AFL. An AFL player is never going to question what is given to them because they are told from the day they're drafted to trust in the coaching and medical staff.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:53
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Gough Suppressant posted:From everything we know the club doctors and sports scientists straight up lied to the players. It is not reasonable to expect every member of a 45 person squad to have enough knowledge in chemistry to audit their clubs supplements program. They're still responsible for everything that goes in to their body. The outcome of this case will further cement the idea that it's better not to ask and just accept whatever poo poo the club tells them to take. If they were found guilty, suddenly every player would want evidence that what they were being given was legit. Players knew this was dodgy. They would have noticed it was always done away from the usual location, being told not to tell the doctors about it (or anyone) etc.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:53
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gay picnic defence posted:What if, God forbid, they were actually just given AOD and thymomodulin like Dank said they were? That would make his continued insistence that Thymosin beta 4 was not a banned substance quite odd.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:54
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Gough Suppressant posted:From everything we know the club doctors and sports scientists straight up lied to the players. It is not reasonable to expect every member of a 45 person squad to have enough knowledge in chemistry to audit their clubs supplements program. Have you ever heard of "willful blindness"?
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Mar 31, 2015 08:58
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Won't someone think of the real victims, the stand in players?
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Mar 31, 2015 09:01
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Deregister Essendon, let all the players off and start the loving season.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:01
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Gough Suppressant posted:That would make his continued insistence that Thymosin beta 4 was not a banned substance quite odd. It would, and I'm not entirely certain one way or another what happened. But in the absence of a smoking gun indicating drug use, I'm happy to see the players get let off and all the hacks who invested so much emotion and energy into a guilty verdict have a big sook about it.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:03
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Diet Crack posted:Won't someone think of the real victims, the stand in players? Based on the tweets they actually seem pretty happy about it. So did the selection of other AFL players who commented. It's only some fans and the Fairfax pundits that seem upset.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:04
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Lid posted:Have you ever heard of "willful blindness"? The WADA code is designed for individual sports where athletes have large degrees of control over the appointment and dismissal of support staff. Anti doping officials have gone on record as saying it does not deal well with team situations such as this, because that control does not exist.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:07
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Also James Hird is objectively the most grossly incompetent and negligent coach in the history of the AFL and the club won't sack him because they're a pack of cult mentality morons
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Mar 31, 2015 09:25
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This is a pretty loving poor result for player welfare.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:34
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gay picnic defence posted:It would, and I'm not entirely certain one way or another what happened. But in the absence of a smoking gun indicating drug use, I'm happy to see the players get let off and all the hacks who invested so much emotion and energy into a guilty verdict have a big sook about it. You know the judgement is really that they used drugs they just can't say which players used it so it's not guilty... right? Or do you actually think they're innocent and didn't take any drugs?
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Mar 31, 2015 09:38
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Well, I'm pretty loving happy. Maybe now the biggest worry I can have as a supporter is what goes on on field. Like it should be. Pending ASADA appeals of course.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:42
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EvilElmo posted:You know the judgement is really that they used drugs they just can't say which players used it so it's not guilty... right? Or do you actually think they're innocent and didn't take any drugs? Umm yeah  That is the entire point, they can't tell what it was (and therefor if it was banned or not) so the players are found innocent. Congratulations on working out how courts work.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:54
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gay picnic defence posted:Umm yeah He's not asking what the tribunal verdict was, he is asking whether you, gaypicnicdefence, believe the players were administered prohibited substances or not
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Mar 31, 2015 09:58
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