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EgoEgress posted:If you feel like doing an archaeological dig through the ancient internet you can find people kvetching about Morrowind in comparison to Daggerfall shortly after it was released. "Dumbing down the series", "not a true RPG", "appealing to casual gamers with whizzycool features and graphics", etc. What I'd this, just a tiny island? That I can run from one end to the other in fifteen minutes? Where's my 63km of procedurally generated landmass with hundreds of towns and cities 
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Apr 6, 2015 19:58
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Berke Negri posted:Where's my 63km of procedurally generated landmass with hundreds of towns and cities Not gonna lie, if I could get a random, procedurally generated landmass and objectives that were slightly more involved than the radiant quests in Skyrim, that'd probably last me a while. Like the Adventurer mode in Dwarf Fortress but, y'know, actually playable.
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Apr 6, 2015 20:15
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I imagine there was a lot of pissing and moaning about the lack of mounts.
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Apr 6, 2015 20:18
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Horses are really useless in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Kind of wonder why they even bothered with them since they really doesn't add anything to the game. Tasty though. Sheogorath was right.
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Apr 6, 2015 20:51
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Skyrim, yes, I rarely use horses other than as a way to speed up my fast travel. Oblivion, no, Shadowmere is ridiculously useful as both faster from point to point and as an invulnerable meat shield.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:04
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Drunk in Space posted:Speaking of Daggerfall, a demo of that was one of the first things I played on my 'brand new' CD-ROM drive around 1995. I'd actually had the demo for a while before that, as it'd come bundled on a CD from a gaming mag (PC Gamer iirc), which I'd obviously been unable use to prior to getting the drive. As soon as I did get the drive, naturally the first I did was to start going through this big pile of CDs I'd accumulated. "Broken, ugly and clunky" are all good descriptions of Daggerfall. But it did a lot that would be worth updating and incorporating into modern games. Not the procedurally generated stories and massive scope. But the multiple storylined and faction allegiance are something that would be lovely to see updated and enhanced in a modern game. And more so than the other games it felt like you were really building your place in the world, rather than playing through an attempt to create an epic but ultimately dull storyline.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:14
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I hear about a lot of cool things that are in Daggerfall.. and I'd like to see them added to a modern game. And some modern games have them. But TES doesn't seem to want to add them back..
Branching main quest. Climbing. Other Were creatures. Complicated multi-faction Vampires, and actually dying before becoming one. Player Background-Class system. Holidays (these were actually supposed to be in Oblivion but got cut). Languages (though I'd honestly prefer if these were like perks in the speechcraft tree rather than new skills?) Banks.. ships.. Basically Daggerfall seems to have a lot of amazing features, in an ugly clunky package that looks like a lot of not fun to try and get into.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:33
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Berke Negri posted:What I'd this, just a tiny island? That I can run from one end to the other in fifteen minutes? Where's my 63km of procedurally generated landmass with hundreds of towns and cities Is that true? I'm not being clever, I genuinely have forgotten how long it takes to go from one end of morrowind to the other - in my mind it would take about 3-4 hours?
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Apr 6, 2015 22:43
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double nine posted:Is that true? I'm not being clever, I genuinely have forgotten how long it takes to go from one end of morrowind to the other - in my mind it would take about 3-4 hours? Booking it from Vivecs temple to ah, that orc town all the way in the north along the coast for the sea of ghosts would probably take maybe half an hour if you knew where you were going and didn't run into any monsters? Vvardenfell is pretty tiny. Edit: this is with in mind you either don't care about stamina or have a mod that doesn't drain stamina when running. Walking would definitely take forever. Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 22:52
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Sky Shadowing posted:Skyrim, yes, I rarely use horses other than as a way to speed up my fast travel. Oblivion, no, Shadowmere is ridiculously useful as both faster from point to point and as an invulnerable meat shield. This, Oblivion felt bigger imo because you couldn't sprint and using a horse(white from Anvil or Black from somewhere else, or shadowmere) was the only way to get anywhere with any expediency. They could also climb nearly verticle walls and hills if you didn't want to use paintbrushes to get over something you shouldn't. Honestly, if they didn't add the dumbass sprint limiter to horses, Skyrim horses would be just as useful as oblivion. But apparently bethesda employees think horses can only gallop for ten seconds at a time.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:55
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axolotl farmer posted:Horses are really useless in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Kind of wonder why they even bothered with them since they really doesn't add anything to the game. Khajiit fixed that for you. May you walk on warm sands.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:58
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double nine posted:Is that true? I'm not being clever, I genuinely have forgotten how long it takes to go from one end of morrowind to the other - in my mind it would take about 3-4 hours? Depends what you mean. A 5 athletics 30 speed crap stamina character? Probably 45+ minutes. A 100 speed 100 athletics 100 endurance character with BoOBS? Under 15 minutes. You still aren't running all that fast by video game standards. Vvardenfell is actually like 40% the size of Cyrodill, a lot of it is just wrapped around itself with mountains blocking the direct paths.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:20
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Isn't there a mod that removes the fog from Morrowind, allowing you see Vivec City plain as day from the starting village, like it's just a short walk away? (because it is)
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Apr 7, 2015 11:28
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Yep, but it is rather intenive on your CPU and GPU. Basically it's custom making a LOD like Oblivion and Skyrim has, and you can change how far that loads the world in or just shows the LOD in the area's place. It's super pretty with Tamriel Rebuilt though!
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Apr 7, 2015 11:54
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axolotl farmer posted:Horses are really useless in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Kind of wonder why they even bothered with them since they really doesn't add anything to the game. Skyrim horses make scaling mountains easy. You can also fast travel when overburdened. Also they added in mounted combat which is clunky, but feels cool. Charging past a Thalmor contingent and slowing down time with the bow zoom, and then dropping a paralyzing headshot onto the lead Justiciar was fun.
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Apr 7, 2015 13:43
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Get that horse mod (Convenient Horses) for skyrim and you can set your horse to have infinite stamina and bind a button to vaccuum all nearby herbs from horseback.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:01
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Convenient horses is pretty good for stopping your horse from comitting suicide by combat all the time.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:19
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K8.0 posted:Depends what you mean. A 5 athletics 30 speed crap stamina character? Probably 45+ minutes. A 100 speed 100 athletics 100 endurance character with BoOBS? Under 15 minutes. You still aren't running all that fast by video game standards. Vvardenfell is actually like 40% the size of Cyrodill, a lot of it is just wrapped around itself with mountains blocking the direct paths. Uh... you are definitely wrong on this because you're forgetting about one crucial factor: loading new sectors Total travel time: Infinite because it'll crash before you make it and you'll have to start over.
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Apr 7, 2015 15:54
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Wasn't there a shrine you could sacrifice a flight potion to in order to get ridiculous flying power? On my last run I could have sworn I did that to fly all the way from Vivec to Sheogorad in one shot and do that silent pilgrimage quest in like five minutes.
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Apr 7, 2015 16:50
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Wasn't there a shrine you could sacrifice a flight potion to in order to get ridiculous flying power? On my last run I could have sworn I did that to fly all the way from Vivec to Sheogorad in one shot and do that silent pilgrimage quest in like five minutes. It's not particularly fast levitation, but it does last forever. I did it last time I did that quest and honestly it's a nice option if you just want to progress, but seeing what trouble you get into meandering north is part of the fun of the quest.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:13
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axolotl farmer posted:Convenient horses is pretty good for stopping your horse from comitting suicide by combat all the time. Skyrim horses are always spoiling for a fight, much like real horses.
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Apr 7, 2015 18:33
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Moryrie posted:Climbing. Looks like someone never tried running towards a slope while hopping like a maniac.
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Apr 7, 2015 19:25
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I just use the Battlecat mod in Skyrim so I don't have to deal with a bitch horse all the time. Oh, you want to hold up the guy kitted out in Dwarven armor riding a giant battle cat? Go ahead, 
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Apr 7, 2015 19:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkzx9Mv0zwU
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Apr 7, 2015 21:33
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Heavy Lobster posted:It's not particularly fast levitation, but it does last forever. I did it last time I did that quest and honestly it's a nice option if you just want to progress, but seeing what trouble you get into meandering north is part of the fun of the quest. I think it lasts for ten minutes. If you're doing all the shrine pilgrimages, I think another one gives you a big speed boost so if you do both of them you get really fast flight for quite a long time.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:53
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grate deceiver posted:Looks like someone never tried running towards a slope while hopping like a maniac. I actually do that all the time. But I'd like to scale walls and buildings, not slopes. I can actually scale things in Oblivion with Maskar's overhaul. But the animations are missing, so it looks weird. And yes, paintbrushes are also technically an option, but that's tedious.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:13
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Dux Supremus posted:Speaking of this, lemme see if I've got Kirkbridean spacetime geometry correct: Almost right and that depends who you talk to on /teslore/. Yokunda is a memory of the last Amaranth (the one where Padomay shanked Anu's wife-to-be and Anu hid in the sun and started dreaming Tamriel which is full of suffering because Anu is), that's why it's in ruins and Akavir is the anticipation of Juban-Sul's flower baby dream from c0da that's why it's so mysterious. It's all pretty vague about how the hell this is supposed to work, though. Tamriel itself is free from weird time shenanigans, because it's the Arena and the world exists for it. I have no idea how Tamriel's islands are supposed to figure into it. Also Aldmeris never existed because Elves are dumb and wrong. Saying that it has no space is actually rather neat, but the Elves literally just made it up. EgoEgress posted:If you feel like doing an archaeological dig through the ancient internet you can find people kvetching about Morrowind in comparison to Daggerfall shortly after it was released. "Dumbing down the series", "not a true RPG", "appealing to casual gamers with whizzycool features and graphics", etc. (It's just that Oblivion is objectively bad at everything.) Also I hope everyone is familiar with Chocolate Hammer's The Altered Scrolls, a TES series retrospective? He is up to Morrowind now and talks a lot about the differences between the games. It updates at a glacial pace though and just finished Morrowind. He put it pretty well, so I'll just quote it: quote:TES I: Arena was about making the player feel like a hero. TES II: Daggerfall was about making a world that felt real and functional and full of opportunity. TES III: Morrownd was not about making a world that felt real, per se, but a world that immersed you despite being manifestly unreal. Everything about the game contributed to making the feeling of inhabiting its alien, hostile world as complete and captivating as possible.
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Apr 10, 2015 06:48
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I enjoyed that link. I was skeptical because I am not sure the world needs another person to explain to it why Morrowind was Good. But he's fun to read.quote:Don’t get me wrong: the world of The Elder Scrolls V: Valenwood is as beautiful and rich and fully-realized as any I’ve seen in a videogame. But actually experiencing it is a chore that few would relish. All the little obstacles come together: the combat is fiddly and overly lethal, the NPCs speak in accents that are genuinely difficult to parse, the much-vaunted translation minigame wears thin quickly and discourages the player from speaking with anyone but a fellow foreigner, and half of the quests end in anticlimaxes where I can’t tell if I’ve made a mistake, the developer made a mistake, or that’s just the way things are supposed to go. NPCs will tell you that venturing into the three-dimensional treescape without a guide is certain death, and the amazing thing is, they’re not kidding: ill-researched forays end in the player being eaten by monsters I’m not even sure are killable. All very gritty and realistic. My question to the developers is: what’s the point of going to such great pains with your gameworld if we have to go through similar pains to see it? I may sit down and play through this one with a page of cheat codes at the ready, but that can’t be the best way to experience Valenwood. Maybe the modders will save this one yet. (5.5/10)“ aw man
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Apr 10, 2015 23:13
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Thanks for linking that. It was amusing.quote:"Like its predecessors, Morrowind was as approachable as the rotted feral zombie of a terrorist skunk."
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Apr 11, 2015 02:06
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I love TES lore and this thread for that reason. I also played oblivion first and love it to death. About once a year I sit down and start playing it again, and I've never installed a mod. That game got me into the whole series and the lore. Also, I can't get into Morrowwind as a game. I've tried a few times and it's not fun to my simple brain. I'll devour the wiki entries about the lord in the game though.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:29
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funmanguy posted:I love TES lore and this thread for that reason. I also played oblivion first and love it to death. About once a year I sit down and start playing it again, and I've never installed a mod. That game got me into the whole series and the lore. I think Morrowind is an easy jump from Oblivion though? Same combat, just instead of doing jack for damage, you do none. Same cheesy to bad dialogue, just more options. The graphics of both are pretty bad nowadays. Magic still breaks the game apart before you even kill your first mudcrab. And high level areas are like stumbling upon Umbra for the first time in Oblivion. I will say that unlike oblivion though, you should at least start the main quest to get a foothold.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:09
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Nasgate posted:I think Morrowind is an easy jump from Oblivion though? Are you kidding? Morrowind is incredibly unforgiving. I can absolutely see someone not being into getting murdered by a rat ten feet out of the starting village.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:15
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GrumpyDoctor posted:Are you kidding? Morrowind is incredibly unforgiving. I can absolutely see someone not being into getting murdered by a rat ten feet out of the starting village. Good thing people will only run into mudcrabs there 
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Apr 11, 2015 04:24
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I love Morrowind to death, it's my favorite game of all time, but even I acknowledge that gameplay wise you have to know what you're doing or you'll get lost. Morrowind is probably by far the easiest game to break over your knee. I mean, hell, there's a way to get a Daedric weapon of your (limited) choice within probably an hour of the start: Find the Vassir-Didanat Cave, all you have to do is walk in, then go to Dram Bero's Haunted Manor in Vivec and he'll just hand you one.. But a lot of that is dependent on you knowing the ins and outs, like the Swords Of White Woe, Creeper, the Drunken Mudcrab Merchant, etc. There's a reason that the first thing I do when I play Morrowind is use my knowledge to get a lot of gold, then dump that into training up a weapons skill. And it's because relying on a dice roll to determine if you hit or not isn't fun.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:31
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Mister Adequate posted:Good thing people will only run into mudcrabs there There's always a couple rats by the Taxman's corpse. Whenever I've played anyway.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:17
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Mister Adequate posted:Good thing people will only run into mudcrabs there And scribs, and kwaama foragers, and actually there are rats now that I think about it. I even managed to aggro a cliff racer from a nearby island once or twice.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:43
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I'll try again. Hopefully steam puts the GotY edition of Morrowind goes on sale so that I can play it on a not-console. I'll be using console commands like a madman, but I always do that with bethesda games.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:59
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I feel like Morrowind is one of those games that takes a little while to "click". That's not exactly the best way to design a game, and it understandably drives some people away. But if it clicks for you it'll be worth it, especially for a lore fan. 
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Apr 11, 2015 17:14
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I never minded the gameplay and I very quickly learned how it worked (and then to break it over my knee  ) so I guess I have a little trouble remembering that it might be very intimidating or just annoying to people.e; not entirely true actually, the way leveling works always bugged me. Thank Alma for GCD! Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 17:50
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Pikestaff posted:I feel like Morrowind is one of those games that takes a little while to "click". That's not exactly the best way to design a game, and it understandably drives some people away. But if it clicks for you it'll be worth it, especially for a lore fan. Keep in mind it's 14 years old. (sidenote:  I'm feeling old) Stuff like 'roll to hit' was more mainstream back then that it is now, it was more the standard.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:59
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