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The neighbor is meant to be creepy. Didn't he take some of Betty's hair?
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Apr 19, 2015 08:58
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Mu Zeta posted:The neighbor is meant to be creepy. Didn't he take some of Betty's hair? Yeah, but that was more as a messed up kid with no real sense of personal space going through his parent's divorce. But even in scenes where Glen can relate to Sally, where Glen is supposed to act like a somewhat normal teenager who has been through the same poo poo as Sally, and can maybe give some helpful advice, he still comes off as a creepy guy. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 09:29
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NutritiousSnack posted:There were a lot of just random things that had great payoff, but that was the best. I'm watching this show for the second/third time with two different friends. There are so many little mentions and callbacks it's amazing. Just a few I noticed tonight: In Episode 4 "In the Blood", Foggy has a lot of throwaway lines that are later referenced in Episode 10 "Nelson v. Murdock". When he and Karen find out that Matt speaks Spanish, he mentions that if they ever have any clients that speak Punjabi, he's got it covered. In the "Nelson v. Murdock" Flashback, we learn that he is taking Punjabi because of a hot girl. He also references that his mother wanted him to be a butcher, to which Matt laments "Not the butcher story again." We see him tell this story for the first time in "Nelson v. Murdock". And most hilariously, in Episode 4 when he's pining for the wealth they could have had if they had stayed with Landman and Zack, he mentions that they had free bagels every day. In the later flashback, we see the moment when they decide to quit, and Foggy, dumping out his desk box, proclaims that he's stealing all the bagels he can carry. Also in this episode, when Fisk goes back to ask Vanessa out, he tells her that the painting he bought is the last thing he sees every night. She tells him that it is either "very romantic, or very sad". He says that he likes to think it's the former. Considering what we later learn, I'd say it's definitely the latter. Fisk's "we are alike, you and I..." speech in Episode 6 "Condemned", says at least as much about Fisk as it does Murdock, which is revealed in Episode 8 "Shadows in the Glass". Wilson Fisk posted:You're a child playing at being a hero. These have pretty much already been discussed, but I just wanted to mention how much they jumped out at me on a second viewing. Another thing that I noticed after we started talking about how concealing the truth is thematically a major source of suffering and a recurring plot point, is that the oft-mentioned sanctity of Confession that Matt shares with the priest also mirrors the "no snitching" attitude of the criminal organizations in this show. Though Matt questions if it's "fair", both he and the priest trust that they will not divulge each other's secrets told in confidence, even if they "killed ten people". Meanwhile, Matt's MO as a vigilante is to find people he thinks know something and are bound to secrecy, and hurt them until they break the promise they made. How would Matt feel if the loved one of someone he hurt came and tortured the Priest until he gave up Matt? Now obviously, Matt would immediately forgive anyone who gave him up, and feel responsible for putting them in danger. But then he's just go out for more revenge. Exactly how Fisk responds when someone puts Vanessa in danger. Blames himself and goes to cause some pain. It's clear that they didn't want to phone in any parallels between hero and villain, and they really did a good job of developing characters over time rather than dropping a bunch of exposition at the beginning and then coasting. They also paced the season very well. I think the first 2-3 episodes feel a but slow. But after having seen them all three times, I think the slow burn start is important because it helps developed all the characters as people. There's a lot of conversation scenes that could have been a lot shorter and still moved the plot along, but then they wouldn't have given the characters as much personality. The first 8 episodes establish the setting while filling in some origin of the hero, and then revealing the mysterious villain's origin. Then episode 9 ends on Wilson ground-pounding Matt in a scene reminiscent of the end the opening fight of the series. Snak fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 10:26
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My take on Fisk: as M Night Shyamalan commented in Unbreakable, like most archenemies he's the opposite of the hero in a single crucial way. Cap and the Red Skull are of course on opposite ends of an ideological scale. Reed Richards has no place for magic in his life, Victor von Doom is an occultist. Charles Xavier wants to secure the future for mutants by cooperation, Magneto sees it as a competition that only one can win. In the case of Daredevil and Fisk, Matt Murdock is the Man Without Fear and Wilson Fisk fears everything. He is afraid of being around people, afraid of his own allies, afraid of rejection, afraid to show his emotions. His words stumble because he's afraid to speak. The only time we don't see Fisk afraid is when he's blindly enraged, but at least at the start of the series he's afraid of that - afraid that he is needlessly cruel like his father. And the only thing he's not afraid of is the only thing Matt is afraid of: that he may not be doing the right thing. One interesting thing I noticed. Vanessa sells Fisk the white-on-white painting at his request, but when Matt visits the gallery she recommends to him a painting that is red on red with hints of yellow - the exact colours in which Matt "sees" the world.
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Apr 19, 2015 10:45
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Jedit posted:One interesting thing I noticed. Vanessa sells Fisk the white-on-white painting at his request, but when Matt visits the gallery she recommends to him a painting that is red on red with hints of yellow - the exact colours in which Matt "sees" the world. Also, as someone who was rooting for Foggy and Karen to get together during the first half of this show, Marcy turned out to be a lot less one-dimensional than her initial appearance suggested and I kind of like the realism of Foggy and Marcy, who are both at chaotic places in their lives, experimenting with rekindling things. For a comic-book show, I really appreciate the lack of censorship to the human nature of the main characters. They drink, gently caress, and lie, not because they are bad people, but because they are human, and they hurt, they're lonely, and they're scared. And the show doesn't treat it as a morality lesson. Snak fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 11:10
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Don't save. lol I love this show
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Apr 19, 2015 11:29
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Batham posted:I actually liked the suit and Kingpin's forced voice. It sold to me how broken the Kingpin really was, psychologically at least. Those were totally necessary.   
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Apr 19, 2015 13:39
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One of my favorite things was the beginning of Episode 3. The little montage with "never jam" suddenly turning way too violent was great. And I liked how that one guy who sold the gun ended up being a sort of audience insert into the lower levels of Fisk's enterprise. A few things I liked/didn't like - I liked the fact that Karen totally killed a dude and she's going to have to live with that. I'm sure that's a plot point that's going to come back. - I didn't like the usual "purer = more dangerous" take on the drug trade. Maybe the Wire has just ruined me for narco-crime drama. - I really liked the use of music and sound. I guess it had to be great in a story about a guy with hypersensitive hearing. - I didn't like how willing each crooked cop was willing to put a bullet into another crooked cop, even after the Kingpin's empire crumbled. Either way it was really good (in spite of the fact that I didn't like the first episode) and I'm watching Serpico now.
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Apr 19, 2015 13:47
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Skeesix posted:One of my favorite things was the beginning of Episode 3. The little montage with "never jam" suddenly turning way too violent was great. And I liked how that one guy who sold the gun ended up being a sort of audience insert into the lower levels of Fisk's enterprise. Yeah, the cops were a little bit too willing to start murdering other cops, dirty or not. The SWAT team in episode 5 or 6 stands out in particular, especially considering that the guy didn't have a clue anything criminal was going on in the first place.
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Apr 19, 2015 14:58
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Wolpertinger posted:Yeah, the cops were a little bit too willing to start murdering other cops, dirty or not. The SWAT team in episode 5 or 6 stands out in particular, especially considering that the guy didn't have a clue anything criminal was going on in the first place. In this specific instance, I assumed it was part of Fisk's plan to frame the man in the mask as a cop killing terrorist.
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Apr 19, 2015 16:45
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Wolpertinger posted:Yeah, the cops were a little bit too willing to start murdering other cops, dirty or not. The SWAT team in episode 5 or 6 stands out in particular, especially considering that the guy didn't have a clue anything criminal was going on in the first place. I am pretty sure those SWAT guys were fake; they had all the accoutrements but they were just assassins.
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Apr 19, 2015 16:49
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Yeah that was the impression I got. Blake set things up so Fisk could sneak his own men in.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:05
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thrakkorzog posted:Yeah, but that was more as a messed up kid with no real sense of personal space going through his parent's divorce. But even in scenes where Glen can relate to Sally, where Glen is supposed to act like a somewhat normal teenager who has been through the same poo poo as Sally, and can maybe give some helpful advice, he still comes off as a creepy guy. Yeah, that is what they are going for.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:39
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Just watched this a few days ago. Is the consensus that this show was really awesome and one of the best things Marvel has ever produced? Because that's what I'm gonna say.Skeesix posted:- I liked the fact that Karen totally killed a dude and she's going to have to live with that. I'm sure that's a plot point that's going to come back. I'm not sure that's the first person she's ever killed.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:46
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The Sharmat posted:Just watched this a few days ago. Is the consensus that this show was really awesome and one of the best things Marvel has ever produced? Because that's what I'm gonna say. When she told Wesley "Do you really think this is the first time I've shot someone?" I wasn't sure if she was bluffing at first. After seeing her do it, I'm pretty sure she was telling the truth.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:55
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Snak posted:When she told Wesley "Do you really think this is the first time I've shot someone?" I wasn't sure if she was bluffing at first. After seeing her do it, I'm pretty sure she was telling the truth. Also that little nightmare in the episode after it, with Wilson Fisk telling her that the secret is that "It gets easier every time" seemed to be speaking to something in her apparently unsavory past, to me.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:02
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The Sharmat posted:Also that little nightmare in the episode after it, with Wilson Fisk telling her that the secret is that "It gets easier every time" seemed to be speaking to something in her apparently unsavory past, to me. Yeah. And then right after this, Matt tells her "You can't just run around killing people and call yourself a human being." He's talking about Fisk, of course, but it's like the worst thing he could say to Karen. They did such a good job of not making Karen a lame sidekick blogger character we all worried she would turn out be after the first episode.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:05
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I'm surprised people are saying cops are so eager to off each other when the show went out of its way to show us how deeply upset Hoffman was at being asked to murder Blake. It's yet another scene they didn't have to include, but that added a ton of depth. So many other television shows would have stopped at the "cruel, stupid bullies" characterization for their corrupt cops.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:09
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Phylodox posted:I'm surprised people are saying cops are so eager to off each other when the show went out of its way to show us how deeply upset Hoffman was at being asked to murder Blake. It's yet another scene they didn't have to include, but that added a ton of depth. So many other television shows would have stopped at the "cruel, stupid bullies" characterization for their corrupt cops. I think it established why he got picked up by Owlsley and why he'd turn to the Feds more than any other random cop would.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:18
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Yeah, but it also elaborated on just how deeply embedded in the police force Fisk's influence was, and how terrified of him they were, that someone would rather murder his best friend since childhood than risk Fisk's wrath.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:27
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I'm predicting that in season 3 he'll be doing jail time.
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Apr 19, 2015 22:32
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osietra posted:I'm predicting that in season 3 he'll be doing jail time. He's fine. He'll end up running the place.
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Apr 19, 2015 22:42
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Unless he's in there with the Fisk whisker, whisking his fists.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:20
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Darth Ballz posted:I am pretty sure those SWAT guys were fake; they had all the accoutrements but they were just assassins. There's a line about it in the episode, even.
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Apr 20, 2015 04:31
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When I was growing up I was honestly more interested in the Punisher than Daredevil, so I just kinda was indifferent about Daredevil as a superhero as a whole, until now. This show was really made well in my opinion, and it made me extremely interested in Daredevil. This show made me seriously sympathize with all of the characters, especially the Kingpin, and it turns around this thought I always had of the Kingpin from watching the Fox Kids Spiderman when i was a kid (which was just a really fat man in a white suit who never went to jail). The key thing for me is, even though Fisk did the things he did,especially in the second to last episode, I can still feel a certain amount of sympathy for him, and that's not something I normally feel in shows like these. It's usually only the point of view of the hero. Netflix and Co. did a hell of a job with this one.
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Apr 20, 2015 06:49
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The Sharmat posted:I'm not sure that's the first person she's ever killed. I'm pretty sure it is. After she fires the first round, there's a moment where she's genuinely shocked at what she has done, which basically screams "oh my god, I actually shot someone!" And afterward she drops the gun in absolute disgust. Not only that, she's extremely disturbed afterwards. She has trouble sleeping, she stammers and avoids eye contact, etc. Yeah, Fisk has a line about killing becoming easier every time, but everything about that plot arc suggests it was her first time.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:02
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Yeah but she got an abortion in college. Matt's gonna be pissed.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:04
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greatn posted:Yeah but she got an abortion in college. Matt's gonna be pissed. How's he going to find out, is he going to smell that she had an abortion
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Apr 20, 2015 08:10
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Steve Yun posted:How's he going to find out, is he going to smell that she had an abortion "Karen, I've noticed when you menstruate, there's some resistance on your vaginal lining. Is everything all right?"
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Apr 20, 2015 08:17
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enraged_camel posted:I'm pretty sure it is. After she fires the first round, there's a moment where she's genuinely shocked at what she has done, which basically screams "oh my god, I actually shot someone!" And afterward she drops the gun in absolute disgust. See, I read it differently. Killing obviously isn't something she's comfortable with. If she's done it before, it was a traumatic event in her past. She probably told herself that she would never have to do it again. She grabs the gun and fires the shot because she's not afraid to, because it's saved her life before. Then she realizes that she actually has shot someone another time, but now she's committed and she's not going to gently caress it up, she's going to live and escape no matter what andBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!! It's actually the tiniest bit reminiscent of Young Fisk: Once you get your enemy on the ground, you keep him there, you keep kicking. Once you've hit your bully in the head with a hammer, you make sure this is the last time you fight him. I think Karen has shot someone before. Maybe she killed, them, maybe she didn't. I think that Karen is a good person and that whatever happened in her past was at least as justified as her shooting Wesley to death. I think she feels bad about both events because she is a good person and doesn't believe in hurting other people. But she's also strong, doesn't like injustice, and won't stand idly by while innocent people are hurt. In fact, this could be the catalyst for Matt telling Karen that he is DareDevil. If circumstances force Karen to come clean to Matt about killing Wesley and all the investigative activities she's been going about behind their backs, she's going to make a case that her secrecy and lying was for the greater good. She wil be crushed and feel like she's betrayed their trust, but then Foggy will give Matt a look, and Matt will be all like "There's something I want to show you" and they finally unite as a team with no secrets between them.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:30
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Steve Yun posted:How's he going to find out, is he going to smell that she had an abortion It was Gosnell, and Matt is part of the prosecution.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:49
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Snak posted:See, I read it differently. Killing obviously isn't something she's comfortable with. If she's done it before, it was a traumatic event in her past. She probably told herself that she would never have to do it again. She grabs the gun and fires the shot because she's not afraid to, because it's saved her life before. Then she realizes that she actually has shot someone another time, but now she's committed and she's not going to gently caress it up, she's going to live and escape no matter what andBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!! And then she becomes a heroin addict porn star and sells out Daredevil's identity for drugs.
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Apr 20, 2015 11:54
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Wolpertinger posted:And then she becomes a heroin addict porn star and sells out Daredevil's identity for drugs. That was such a terrible storyline in every conceivable way; absolute peak Miller. The color work was really nice though.
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Apr 20, 2015 12:31
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Fargin Icehole posted:and it turns around this thought I always had of the Kingpin from watching the Fox Kids Spiderman when i was a kid (which was just a really fat man in a white suit who never went to jail). I'll have you know that only 3% of his bodyweight is fat. No, I don't know why I still remember lines from that show either. Wolpertinger posted:And then she becomes a heroin addict porn star and sells out Daredevil's identity for drugs. ...huh. I doubt they'll go that way in the tv series. But from what I've seen, if they do for some reason, they could probably actually make that work somehow, difficult to imagine as that is.
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Apr 20, 2015 13:59
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The Sharmat posted:I'll have you know that only 3% of his bodyweight is fat. I remember it too, and the reason was that up till then I thought he was a fat guy that Spiderman would mop the floor at in anything but a "pie eating contest". Fisk saying that line and pounding Spiderman was a pretty awesome shock and a "OMFG Spiderman's going to be toast" moment.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:31
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Is this particular portrayal of Fisk accurate to the comics? It's rubbing me the wrong way but I admittedly don't read much Marvel stuff and envision Kingpin similar to his appearance in Spider-Man: TAS. The scene where he attacks the Russian for interrupting his dinner is how I'd expect Kingpin to react, not because he was 'embarrassed in front of her' but because he was flat-out interrupted and confronted directly by someone with less power. I guess it's his sorta self-confidence issues that just strike me as out of character. I can see him being sensitive about his weight or something, but not a complete manchild when it comes to women.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:22
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Netflix's Wilson Fisk is very different from his comic book counterpart and is much better for it.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:24
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Comic book Kingpin is more like a standard underworld crime boss badguy who does things for power and money reasons.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:25
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To be fair, the stuff about him being genuine about his love for Vanessa and going nuts if she's hurt is true to the comics.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:02
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Gaz-L posted:To be fair, the stuff about him being genuine about his love for Vanessa and going nuts if she's hurt is true to the comics. Also, his raw strength and fighting ability.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:26
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