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Rirse posted:Up to the training with Mr Popo part of the Piccolo Jr Saga, and I can see why Abridged makes Popo be creepy. Especially him just making the bizzare rear end Goku Doll. 
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Apr 21, 2015 15:59
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It's only the long running adaptations that tend to be bad; most shounen anime are usually at least good until the lovely filler ending (with the occasional anime with a good filler ending (FMA) or a good stopping point (HxH 2011). And even then the One Piece anime was fantastic until about the CP9 saga.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:01
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Isn't that just the result of adapting a manga while it is still in production? Jojo would have the same problem if Araki was currently writing it and the anime was about to overtake him and the 1999 HxH anime also added tons of filler to avoid overtaking the manga.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:03
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Goku vs Cell was alao pretty drat awesome.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:08
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e X posted:Isn't that just the result of adapting a manga while it is still in production? It's more of a problem with producing weekly content with no endpoint. Adaptations nowadays are embracing 25 episode seasons more often than not, so they're better able to pace themselves. One Piece is one of the few remaining animes that's still going with the old model even though it's obvious to everyone that the quality is suffering because of it. DBZ was made back when that was the standard model for anime adaptations, which natuar!!y resulted in static staredowns we all know and love.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:14
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SatansBestBuddy posted:It's more of a problem with producing weekly content with no endpoint. Adaptations nowadays are embracing 25 episode seasons more often than not, so they're better able to pace themselves. Magi the Labyrinth of Magic is a good example of this. also a good shounen manga/anime in general.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:17
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Saving this for potential future reaction image or smiley.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:08
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think Xibanya should put all these posts in a blog or something because her analysis is really interesting and I'd love to show it to people without having to fish through pages in an SA thread. Or at least have them linked in the OP.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:09
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think Xibanya should put all these posts in a blog or something because her analysis is really interesting and I'd love to show it to people without having to fish through pages in an SA thread. I will throw them on a blog later today with some edits for clarity.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:32
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Gammatron 64 posted:I also feel like DBZ is a fantastic manga but really kind of a lovely show. I'm told One Piece is the same way. I never saw One Piece, but I started reading the manga and it reminds me of early Dragon Ball stuff a lot. I think when it comes to the Shonen genre, a good rule of thumb is "don't watch the anime, just read the manga" as the horrendously slow pace of Shonen Jump anime series make them drat near unwatchable. The exception to the rule is of course Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and that's because they waited like 30 years to actually adapt it rather than trying to do it at the same time. 100%. I love big swaths of the One Piece anime, but after a certain point, it's rendered completely unwatchable.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:08
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If you're playing Xenoverse, they just spoiled Resurrection F specifically Vegeta.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:39
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Wait, the third batch of DLC released?
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Apr 21, 2015 19:43
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Also I think Dragon Ball \ DBZ, One Piece, Jojo's and Fist of the North Star are like the only good Shonen series, or at least they're the only good ones I can think of, because Naruto and Bleach are really, really lame and sucky. Also Inuyasha is really bad but that's meant for girls I think. Basically a good rule to have is that the only good animes are about giant robots or giant ripped dudes screaming and punching poo poo and shows about little high school girls or guys in weird outfits and giant swords are bad
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Apr 21, 2015 19:51
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also I think Dragon Ball \ DBZ, One Piece, Jojo's and Fist of the North Star are like the only good Shonen series, or at least they're the only good ones I can think of, because Naruto and Bleach are really, really lame and sucky. Also Inuyasha is really bad but that's meant for girls I think. City Hunter is a pretty fun shonen. I used to get Raijin comics every month and it was serialized there in  Pick it up if you can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Hunter
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Apr 21, 2015 20:02
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Xibanya posted:City Hunter is a pretty fun shonen. I used to get Raijin comics every month and it was serialized there in Oh yeah, also I hear Hunter X Hunter is good. I never read it though and have no idea what it's about.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:07
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also I think Dragon Ball \ DBZ, One Piece, Jojo's and Fist of the North Star are like the only good Shonen series, or at least they're the only good ones I can think of, because Naruto and Bleach are really, really lame and sucky. Also Inuyasha is really bad but that's meant for girls I think. Yu Yu Hakusho was DBZ with better pacing and secondary characters that remained relevant throughout the series. It therefore is the best shounen ever.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:13
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Beautiful Ninja posted:Yu Yu Hakusho was DBZ with better pacing and secondary characters that remained relevant throughout the series. It therefore is the best shounen ever. I never quite got into the show, but it didn't look too bad. It didn't last too long, IIRC.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:15
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Beautiful Ninja posted:Yu Yu Hakusho was DBZ with better pacing and secondary characters that remained relevant throughout the series. It therefore is the best shounen ever. Similarly there is Flame of Recca which is also full of tournament arcs and competent side characters.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:17
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I liked YYH a lot but everything after Sensui was garbage (in part due to issues the creator was having with publishers).
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Apr 21, 2015 20:18
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Sensui arc also made Kuwabara completely irrelevant which was lame as hell. No, having a plot power and doing absolutely nothing to the main bad guy in a pointless fight does not count.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:22
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Momomo posted:Sensui arc also made Kuwabara completely irrelevant which was lame as hell. No, having a plot power and doing absolutely nothing to the main bad guy in a pointless fight does not count. Sensui arc made everybody irrelevant except Yusuke but that was the point - to show Yusuke's strengths vs an evil mirror of himself.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:33
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Xibanya posted:Sensui arc made everybody irrelevant except Yusuke but that was the point - to show Yusuke's strengths vs an evil mirror of himself. Didn't Kurama permanently fuse some dude to a plant or something right before the last fight? YYH didn't fall flat to me until the fight with Yomi where it cuts out halfway and the next chapter everyone's at school again and it's all exposition about the rest of the tournament. It was like the editor said "sorry but this arc is losing fans so quickly that you need to stop right in the middle of it and do a couple of spirit detective chapters to make up for it."
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Apr 21, 2015 20:42
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also I think Dragon Ball \ DBZ, One Piece, Jojo's and Fist of the North Star are like the only good Shonen series, or at least they're the only good ones I can think of, because Naruto and Bleach are really, really lame and sucky. Also Inuyasha is really bad but that's meant for girls I think. Rurouni Kenshin, Hunter x Hunter, My Hero Academia, Busou Renkin, Death Note, Dr. Slump (from Toriyama himself!), Kinnikuman, Saint Seiya, Shaman King, Yu-Gi-Oh!, YuYu Hakusho, Saiki Kusao no Psi Nan, Kuroko no Basket...and that's only counting the Shonen Jump ones I can see from quickly reading the Jump Ultimate Stars and J-Stars lists. There's far, far more. For instance, outside of that you have FullMetal Alchemist, an all-time favourite of mine, or the currently running Seven Deadly Sins (whose quality is somewhat shaky but it's enjoyable). There's also OPM which is amazing, but I'm not sure where to put it considering it started as a webcomic. The shonen genre actually has lots of really good series! It's just that the most known ones tend to be poo poo that works well for a wide demographic but overall are mediocre to awful, or started really well then jumped the shark and never came back. Many of them owe their existance as they are to Dragon Ball, too, so that only shows the strength of this particular manga even more. Amorphous Blob posted:Didn't Kurama permanently fuse some dude to a plant or something right before the last fight? Yeah, Older Toguro. It was cool as hell, a fate far worse than death for someone who absolutely deserved it.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:43
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Eh, it's great that you are so enthusiastic about it, but honestly, I think most of the series you mentioned are pretty mediocre at best. It doesn't help that I find a lot of the usual shonen tropes to be very tiresome and repetitive. For a lot of stories, it becomes very easy to predict the plot at every turn, to the point were you are just bored with the entire concept.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:58
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e X posted:Eh, it's great that you are so enthusiastic about it, but honestly, I think most of the series you mentioned are pretty mediocre at best. It doesn't help that I find a lot of the usual shonen tropes to be very tiresome and repetitive. For a lot of stories, it becomes very easy to predict the plot at every turn, to the point were you are just bored with the entire concept. You can say that about almost any form of fiction though. Execution matters a lot more than unpredictability. (Though being surprised is always nice.)
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Apr 21, 2015 21:02
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Yeah the problem with Shonen is that you're very limited in the kind of story you can tell because the complexity and depth of character is limited and Japanese publishers are no less susceptible to "focus group" thinking as American publishers are. So you get lots of cookie cutter series because "kids like X" or whatever. I always notice how every time I try to read a Shonen the first several installments are loving great and then it descends into repetitive boringness because they found "the formula" and are gonna flog it forever. Ironically because Toriyama mainly did whatever the hell he wanted, most of Dragonball comes off as way more fresh than most of its imitators. Indie American comics and non-Shonen Japanese comics 4 lyfe.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:05
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Momomo posted:Sensui arc also made Kuwabara completely irrelevant which was lame as hell. No, having a plot power and doing absolutely nothing to the main bad guy in a pointless fight does not count. Kuwabara still had to do support with the soul sword thing that become the most powerful singular thing in the series (it was cutting through dimensions or something). It was after that when he became completely useless. In fact, wasn't in the Sensui arc that stole the JoJos battles, specifically younger D'arby, that made other people more useful?
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Apr 21, 2015 21:06
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All the art talk made me think about how, despite all the jokes about Saiyan hair, it's actually a very simple way of making distinct profiles. It seems like none of the series that took the spikey hair got the concept behind it though. In Naruto every one is a spikey-headed blob and it's in black and white and it just turns into a huge mess.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:07
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Blaze Dragon posted:Rurouni Kenshin, Hunter x Hunter, My Hero Academia, Busou Renkin, Death Note, Dr. Slump (from Toriyama himself!), Kinnikuman, Saint Seiya, Shaman King, Yu-Gi-Oh!, YuYu Hakusho, Saiki Kusao no Psi Nan, Kuroko no Basket...and that's only counting the Shonen Jump ones I can see from quickly reading the Jump Ultimate Stars and J-Stars lists. There's far, far more. For instance, outside of that you have FullMetal Alchemist, an all-time favourite of mine, or the currently running Seven Deadly Sins (whose quality is somewhat shaky but it's enjoyable). There's also OPM which is amazing, but I'm not sure where to put it considering it started as a webcomic. I literally don't care about \ have never heard of half of those things. Although Saint Seya and Full Metal Alchemist are cool, I forgot about those. Also Kinnikuman, because 'rasslin. Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakasho and Yu-Gi-Oh I know about, but have like, no appeal to me at all.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:34
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Honestly, all the art talk has made me realize that Toriyama has a lot more in common with traditional cartoonists rather than comic artists on either shore. I've always liked his art, but the clarity of it is really striking when it's put alongside most other comics like that. And he's quite capable of doing elaborate full color stuff, you just see it less. 
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Apr 21, 2015 21:35
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also I think Dragon Ball \ DBZ, One Piece, Jojo's and Fist of the North Star are like the only good Shonen series, or at least they're the only good ones I can think of, because Naruto and Bleach are really, really lame and sucky. Also Inuyasha is really bad but that's meant for girls I think. Someone forgot Madoka. Also the best shonen is Houshin Engi.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:39
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sharktamer posted:Someone forgot Madoka. No, gently caress off, not watching Madoka
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Apr 21, 2015 21:41
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Dont loose your head over it. 
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Apr 21, 2015 21:43
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One-Punch Man is great because it's the sort of earnest parody where you know the author has a lot of love for the subject matter. Madoka feels more like an attempt to destroy something other people enjoy.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:54
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Gammatron 64 posted:No, gently caress off, not watching Madoka I like you.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:55
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One-Punch Man is great but you know what really owns? Luckyman.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:56
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Thyrork posted:Dont loose your head over it. ok that was pretty funny I gotta admit. but yeah, I'm not going to watch madoka because I have no interest in magical girls at all and I just don't care. although to be fair, all I know about it is that it's about magical girls and one girl gets her head bit off. it's sort of like how I won't watch my little pony out of principle Like people keep talking about attack on titan and dr. who and whatnot and all that actually does is make me want to watch these things less.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:59
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Bad Seafood posted:One-Punch Man is great because it's the sort of earnest parody where you know the author has a lot of love for the subject matter. Really? I think people overhype Madoka's grimdark. It has a positive message and an optimistic ending, despite all the suffering. There's some real love for the genre hidden in there. I mean, just look at the flattering Utena and Kannazuki no Miko references.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:00
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sharktamer posted:Also the best shonen is Houshin Engi. 
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Apr 21, 2015 22:16
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Darth Walrus posted:Really? I think people overhype Madoka's grimdark. It has a positive message and an optimistic ending, despite all the suffering. There's some real love for the genre hidden in there. I mean, just look at the flattering Utena and Kannazuki no Miko references. Again, just how I saw it. Not saying it is that way, but as an outsider looking in it sure seemed like it, ultimately optimistic ending or no.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:16
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