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Right, or "restraint" or "civility" or similar. The idea's going to take me a bit to get used to over all, honestly, because I feel like there's more pathos in your antlers or your glass carapace or whatever being things your Keeper forced upon you rather than material manifestations of yourself-actualization. As-described Beasts seem to be, broadly, werewolf stories - you're stuck in a suffocating and restrictive place so you wolf out, and now you're an actual fangs-and-fur wolfman. Which is cool... but it's a little less tragic and a little more, well, done already.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:53
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Your antlers and whatnot are not going anywhere, and they are still something that the Keeper forced on you, it's just that they are represented by your kith instead of your Seeming. You guys do know that kiths are not a subclass of seemings anymore, right? That Runnerswifts can be Beasts or Darklings or even Elementals or Ogres? paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 20:03
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Interested to see if the trend continues and Mage 2E Thyrsus are explicitly all about being primal, passionate shapeshifters that fight hard and gently caress harder
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Apr 23, 2015 20:08
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Crion posted:Interested to see if the trend continues and Mage 2E Thyrsus are explicitly all about being primal, passionate shapeshifters that fight hard and gently caress harder See for yourself!
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Apr 23, 2015 20:09
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paradoxGentleman posted:Your antlera and whatnot are not going anywhere, and they are still something that the Keeper forced on you, it's just that they are represented by your kith instead of yoyr Seeming. Yes, we get that, it's just that "Seemings are what you did to escape" vs. "Seemings are how you were changed by your captivity" is a pretty big thematic change and it's going to take some getting used to.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:15
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paradoxGentleman posted:Your antlera and whatnot are not going anywhere, and they are still something that the Keeper forced on you, it's just that they are represented by your kith instead of yoyr Seeming. So your "Seeming" describes your innermost nature and the source of your willpower rather than how you seem. I mean, that's not really fair of me. I suppose that in terms of external, available-to-everybody visuals you get a mix of both, so if as my Durance I was just one of the menhirs marking the borders of my Keeper's dominion, and then I became a Beast and escaped, I'd look like a big ox or tiger or whatever that's been carved roughly out of stone, or at least a golem suffused with unnerving vitality and that's got a wild look in its eyes. This feels a bit like Court territory, though... I'd expect that the thing currently called your "Seeming" is what should be determining your mantle and maybe your favored means of reaping glamour more so than your appearance.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:15
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Crion posted:Interested to see if the trend continues and Mage 2E Thyrsus are explicitly all about being primal, passionate shapeshifters that fight hard and gently caress harder Not really, no.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:17
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So somewhat similar in superficial theme, but crucially as if written by a storyteller with an eye for a larger game instead of a fetish writer. I've got no real problem with that.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:18
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More and more, I think I'll stick with the first edition of the nWoD and use the second edition books as optional rules, like Mirrors or Armory Reloaded.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:22
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I will say the one thing I like about this is the "Changelings can always escape Mundane confinement because they've already been jailed by the best" thing.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:27
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Ferrinus posted:So your "Seeming" describes your innermost nature and the source of your willpower rather than how you seem. I think Courts are probably still going to be coping mechanisms of some kind. They're still your support groups or YMCA self-defense classes or w/e. I feel like your Seeming is something that is always going to be behind you, but you'll never really be "free" from it. Because Arcadia is Arcadia so that trauma is literally manifested. So like say I'm a hammer for the New Old Yankee Workshop Fae and I survive by doing some awful stuff I'm probably not proud of and the nature of whatever it was I did makes me an Ogre and now I'm back in society trying to deal with all that, so I join Court X because I feel like drinking away my pain or w/e. Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 20:28
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unseenlibrarian posted:I will say the one thing I like about this is the "Changelings can always escape Mundane confinement because they've already been jailed by the best" thing. That kind of smacks of taking a metaphor and stretching it a bit too far. It would make quite a bit more sense if it was the purview of a specific kind of Changeling (in 1E, Wizened) whose Durances might have been expected to very closely resemble real-world prisons or the like.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:32
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Crion posted:Interested to see if the trend continues and Mage 2E Thyrsus are explicitly all about being primal, passionate shapeshifters that fight hard and gently caress harder
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Apr 23, 2015 20:33
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Frankly, it's the Thyrsus more than anyone who could get away with being an embarrassing orgy cult in the first place. You can tell because their 1E writeup made them out to be, like, ardent environmentalists who think cities are corrupting influences.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:39
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Ferrinus posted:Frankly, it's the Thyrsus more than anyone who could get away with being an embarrassing orgy cult in the first place. You can tell because their 1E writeup made them out to be, like, ardent environmentalists who think cities are corrupting influences. Verbenna is that you?
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Apr 23, 2015 20:44
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Crion posted:That kind of smacks of taking a metaphor and stretching it a bit too far. It would make quite a bit more sense if it was the purview of a specific kind of Changeling (in 1E, Wizened) whose Durances might have been expected to very closely resemble real-world prisons or the like. Your Keeper abducted you seemingly only to torment you. His prison-factory was a seemingly infinite expanse of metal and concrete, like an industrial plant built on acid. He put you and other Changelings to work on meaningless tasks, building titanic, empty structures in his image. Accidents or rampaging Hedge-Beasts would kill them by the score, or they would die in one of his nonsensical games. It seemed like every week he would let you "escape" to somewhere like the real world, giving you just enough time to enjoy yourself, only for his pet mechanical horror to burst out from the scenery and drag you back in an orgy of violence. As it lifted you up across the mad landscape of Faerie, it would always play that terrible song...
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Apr 23, 2015 20:51
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I have 0 problems with my game about a darker, more twisted version of the real world having a bunch of hedonistic, sexual factions in it. The mention of sex doesn't automatically turn the whole setting into an excuse to masturbate: it's an element, a thing that happens that can potentially attract the attention of people who would not contribute to a fun roleplaying experience, but that it would be stupid and wasteful to ignore because we have to make sure they don't catch wind of it.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:55
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Kavak posted:Your Keeper abducted you seemingly only to torment you. His prison-factory was a seemingly infinite expanse of metal and concrete, like an industrial plant built on acid. He put you and other Changelings to work on meaningless tasks, building titanic, empty structures in his image. Accidents or rampaging Hedge-Beasts would kill them by the score, or they would die in one of his nonsensical games. It seemed like every week he would let you "escape" to somewhere like the real world, giving you just enough time to enjoy yourself, only for his pet mechanical horror to burst out from the scenery and drag you back in an orgy of violence. As it lifted you up across the mad landscape of Faerie, it would always play that terrible song...
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Apr 23, 2015 20:55
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have 0 problems with my game about a darker, more twisted version of the real world having a bunch of hedonistic, sexual factions in it. The mention of sex doesn't automatically turn the whole setting into an excuse to masturbate: it's an element, a thing that happens that can potentially attract the attention of people who would not contribute to a fun roleplaying experience, but that it would be stupid and wasteful to ignore because we have to make sure they don't catch wind of it. Sex comes up in Changeling 1E. Not that often, but it comes up. Sex comes up in that Thyrsus preview, too. No one laughing at that line from the Beasts preview is saying "don't mention sex in these games." They're saying "do it well." That's a bad line, and on the whole, it's a bad, leering write-up. Crion fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 21:19
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Crion posted:Sex comes up in Changeling 1E. Not that often, but it comes up. Sex comes up in that Thyrsus preview, too. No one laughing at that line from the Beasts preview is saying "don't mention sex in these games." They're saying "do it well." That's a bad line, and on the whole, it's a bad, leering write-up. The line is pretty out there, no doubt, but the write-up doesn't seem bad to me. It continues the trend of trying to convince you that the seeming/clan/whatever they are talking about is great and wonderful and make you want to play it, but that seems to make sense to me, especially if they are trying to portray Changelings less like victims and more like survivors. If anything the tone I noticed both here and in Blood and Smoke seems... maybe vaguely childish, like they are trying to convince the teenager that isn't really sold on this whole roleplaying thing that these characters are super cool and he totally should want in on this action. It's not the approach I would have picked, but hey, maybe it works.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:37
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paradoxGentleman posted:The line is pretty out there, no doubt, but the write-up doesn't seem bad to me. It continues the trend of trying to convince you that the seeming/clan/whatever they are talking about is great and wonderful and make you want to play it, but that seems to make sense to me, especially if they are trying to portray Changelings less like victims and more like survivors. I was just thinking today after reading a bunch of this stuff that a lot of the writing the thread takes issue with seems to be edginess aimed squarely at 16 year olds. It's not necessarily a bad target audience, it just doesn't strike me as anything I particularly want to read.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:45
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Sex in games is fine, but only if it's in the proper and sacred context of marriage
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Apr 23, 2015 21:47
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It also helps if finding the sex sexy doesn't depend on the reader sharing some very specific fetishes.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:50
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paradoxGentleman posted:The line is pretty out there, no doubt, but the write-up doesn't seem bad to me. It continues the trend of trying to convince you that the seeming/clan/whatever they are talking about is great and wonderful and make you want to play it, but that seems to make sense to me, especially if they are trying to portray Changelings less like victims and more like survivors. Or, bluntly, that the people writing them have a childish view of sexuality themselves. I am totally okay with sex as a thing in games. Hell, Changeling 1e had art with very clearly defined nipples and piercings through sweaters and gently caress it, that was okay because it was in a section actively talking about romance and sex in dreams, which is something that's basically impossible to avoid talking about when dreams are your jam. Monsterhearts is an entire game system around sex - awkward, teenaged, doomed sex - as a vehicle for a plot. Sex is at the root level of all sorts of motivations, and it's frankly puritan and silly to pretend it doesn't exist and get the vapors every time dicks and vaginas are implied. I say this to establish my views when I say that tryhard "no, really, this is rad and transgressive" sex references like the one in the Changeling writeup and ~the communion of the oval office and cock~ are not good incorporation of sex into games. As Swagger says, it's aimed at mid-teenagers who think the word penis is the most offensive thing in the universe. It's a perpetually stunted, adolescent view of things. And targeting that as your demographic is fine, except that OPP writers/fans often seem to try to have their cake and eat it too by attempting serious commentary or meditations on Real poo poo, then calling people who find their discussion of sex childish prudes and puritans. How often they've succeeded in their serious attempts is a matter of debate  tatankatonk posted:Sex in games is fine, but only if it's in the proper and sacred context of marriage  Rand Brittain posted:It also helps if finding the sex sexy doesn't depend on the reader sharing some very specific fetishes. Ah yes, the good old Magical Realm. How disappointed and utterly unsurprised I am to have my major hobby demand that term's existence. (And yes, if I can close my eyes and see the writer's hands down their pants while writing, that torpedoes most of my interest)
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Apr 23, 2015 21:53
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How do you pronounce chiminage?
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Apr 24, 2015 04:57
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You don't, because it's a silly word. I suggest things like 'sacrifice' or 'bargain' instead. Chiminage is an obsolete Franco-English word for a toll paid on a forest road.
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Apr 24, 2015 04:59
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Mors Rattus posted:You don't, because it's a silly word. I suggest things like 'sacrifice' or 'bargain' instead. Chiminage is an obsolete Franco-English word for a toll paid on a forest road. White wolf! 
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Apr 24, 2015 05:13
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Mors Rattus posted:You don't, because it's a silly word. I suggest things like 'sacrifice' or 'bargain' instead. Chiminage is an obsolete Franco-English word for a toll paid on a forest road. If you're not going to use the goofy obscure words in place of common words then why are you even playing a White Wolf game in the first place "I use some of my Magic Blood to boost my stats, activate my Running Real Fast discipline, and track the vampire hunter with my Looking At Stuff powers."
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Apr 24, 2015 05:23
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Nicolae Carpathia posted:If you're not going to use the goofy obscure words in place of common words then why are you even playing a White Wolf game in the first place Mad Libs is fun. Ichor, Alacrity, Perspicacity
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Apr 24, 2015 05:26
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It was kind of neat how the early games had the snobby super old words used by the high-class monsters to give themselves a veneer of culture and the street language of the common folks, even if what they came up with was soemtimes hilariously bad. It fit with the whole Punk thing they were going for.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:38
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Nicolae Carpathia posted:If you're not going to use the goofy obscure words in place of common words then why are you even playing a White Wolf game in the first place Chiminage is like two steps above Vitae, Celerity and Auspex, by rights of having extra syllables, sounding super goofy even in comparison and being equally well-served by the term 'sacrifice' which is really quite a nice little word. (Metis is about on par with Chiminage though, perhaps worse. Don't use Metis.)
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Apr 24, 2015 05:44
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Mors Rattus posted:Chiminage is like two steps above Vitae, Celerity and Auspex, by rights of having extra syllables, sounding super goofy even in comparison and being equally well-served by the term 'sacrifice' which is really quite a nice little word. Metis makes me want to go back in time and scream "DON'T loving DO THAT" into MRH's ear while he's asleep.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:47
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You complain while probably having no idea of the even huger PAIN in the backside this stuff is to translate into languages, especially if you want to do it with any semblance of quality. "This sounds stupid even in the original; I probably would be justified in leaving it stupid in the translation, but I don't wan't to, so now I have to keep it close to the source AND try and make it non-stupid. ...Wait, is that more of ancient Hebrew?.. Of course it loving is, got to get used to this by now".
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Apr 24, 2015 07:08
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Pope Guilty posted:How do you pronounce chiminage? Like chimichanga
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Apr 24, 2015 07:29
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"Auspex" sounds cool as gently caress, sorry
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Apr 24, 2015 07:37
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When your glasses-wearing sidekick does something really cute
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Apr 24, 2015 07:52
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What would people want to see out of Giest 2.0? I was spitballing some ideas in a notebook today. * What if Synergy was actually lost based on the disposition of your Giest as opposed to completely arbitrary rules about ghosts? Like, what if the Burned Man really hates fire and stuff like that? * What if you became more like a zombie as Synergy dropped - rotting flesh, evidence of your death, stuff like that? What if this imposed obvious social problems but made you physically more resilient? * What if you had multiple resources - say, 2? - focused on the physical and ephemeral respectively? What if Physical Resource was regained for fulfilling your own unfinished business and the Ephemeral Resource was for doing what your Giest wanted? * What if you distilled the idea krewe channels down to a handful of easily digestible ones - those granted by specific gods of death, for instance - and used those to drive the primary conflicts of the game? I think the game also lacks a central conflict. The machinations of ancient dead things in the land of the living seem obvious - but there's got to be a better way to use that which isn't just stepping all over other game lines.
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Apr 24, 2015 09:15
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Geist 2E needs to up the importance of The Bargain. As it is, its more like The Gift. Yeah you have the option to turn it down, but why would you? Geists are like mildly annoying at the most and in return you get all these cool powers. If you give people reason to turn down The Bargain, it will automatically make the PCs existence more meaningful simply because now it means that there was something they cared about enough that they were willing to fuse a superghost to their soul for it. Also play up the fact that barring some Hunters (and Demons, arguably), Sin-Eaters are the only ones who choose to become supernaturals. Everyone else is a victim of circumstance. Sin-Eaters actually get a say in the matter. That should mean something more than "Okay now you're a Sin-Eater here's your powers."
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Apr 24, 2015 10:36
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Geist 2E should let you play as Geists rather than as Sin-Eaters.
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Apr 24, 2015 11:01
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I want it to be more like Persona.
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Apr 24, 2015 11:14
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