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Dr. Benway
Dec 9, 2005

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Personally, I would need a lot more than a saucer of beer.

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Aesop Poprock
Oct 21, 2008


Grimey Drawer

Solice Kirsk posted:

The death roller coaster would be my suicide of choice, but only if they put it in like Great America or something. I love roller coasters so spending a day riding them, drinking, and eating funnel cakes followed by a final ride would be a pretty great day.

I feel like the looming death coaster might put a damper on non-suicide related family vacations

Freudian
Mar 23, 2011

Aesop Poprock posted:

I feel like the looming death coaster might put a damper on non-suicide related family vacations

I don't know, you already get parents taking their kids to Disneyland if they get good enough grades. Now there's somewhere for the failing kids to go.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Eien Ni Hen posted:

This is true. When I think aquatic snakes, I think of these motherfuckers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agkistrodon_piscivorus

Water Moccasins are very territorial and their venom can be lethal. I've heard rumors of them chasing fishing boats and actually climbing inside.

In rural parts of the US, people even carry snake guns as protection. I can't decide if that's hilarious or terrifying.

Motherfuckers crawl up in my yard all the drat time. Nothing like living next to a swamp in Florida.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

Big Centipede posted:

There's a lot of people who simply don't understand anything about snakes. Moccasins don't chase people, they've got an aggressive reputation because they don't always retreat when threatened. As cliché as it sounds, if you don't grab it, it's simply not going to bite you.

Have you ever seen one of them in person? Because every single relative I have has had their life threatened by one of those motherfuckers at some point in time.

I was working one day and I hear incoherent screaming. I looked out the window and there was my smoker cousin, running like his life depended on it. Following him was a water moccasin. It chased him all the way down the road until someone finally got a gun. Apparently he was just out by his car talking on his cell phone and smoking when he saw this snake zipping at him from the direction of the pond.

My dad was surveying in someone's yard when one came up to him and went loving crazy biting his boot. He was lucky it didn't pierce skin.

I was turning on a hose in the yard. There was a water moccasin nesting in the water main about twenty feet away. I noticed it immediately and made an effort to stay well away. Did that keep it from zipping at me, ready for murder? NOPE.

Nobody I know has so much as touched them or messed with them in any way to get attacked. Either you have bizarro moccasins or the ones around here are made of pure loving hate.

Monkeytime
Mar 20, 2010

MikeCrotch posted:

Who you calling canuck you yanks don't respect ARE BOYS

Content! How do we solve the sticky situation of assisted suicide. Trips to switzerland? Massive doses of barbiturates? Nah, let's build a roller coaster half a kilometer tall and push old people down it :black101:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster

This was the response I got when I sent a friend a link about the euthanasia coaster. Too good not to share.

my buddy Jeff posted:

You've stood in line for thirty one hours. Who knew that so many people would want to kill themselves? For the first four hours, you assuaged yourself by repeating a mantra, "Soon it will be all over. What's another day?" But then, as the line snaked back and forth, you heard others saying the same thing, droning on, as if you were all of the same, sad doomed hive. The stench as you get closer becomes unbearable. The workers have begun taking the bodies and throwing them under the tracks as the demand has overwhelmed the capacity of the facilities. After fourteen hours in line, most of the people around you have began defecating themselves, unable to leave the line. "No pride in the euthanasia line," says a cancer-stricken man to you or himself, it doesn't matter anymore. He flashes a gray-lipped sardonic smile as you watch the urine spread down his legs. You would have thought that others would turn back, deciding to find more reason to live, but once in this dark, horrible end labyrinth of steel switchbacks and chipped paint, stained concrete, life itself seem crueler than ever. When attendants appear, they don't bother with niceties. They club people that step slowly. Accusations of line-hopping are met without trial, the defendants are quickly dispatched with blows to the head. Somewhere you always hear children crying, children that have been allowed to end all due to the 2027 Life Extension Termination Act. There is no room to pity them in your heart. You have no room for self-pity, after all. As the thirtieth hour approaches, self-deprecation and exhaustion begin to thin the herd in front of you and the line seems to move quicker. Your aching legs threaten to fail. "It will be all over soon," you say as you step forward soggily, your shoes now soaked through with brown, bloodied fluids. An old woman, demented and scared, is forced into the ride ahead of you. She no longer seems to have the will to die. She calls out the name of a son or a husband, perhaps a schoolmate from decades past. You don't know if she's in later stage Alzheimer's or if the hallucinations are taking hold or even if she knew what the line was for when she got in it. "Soon," you say, "soon." The smell of decay has attracted more flies than a landfill. Rats gnaw on the bones of the dead and of other rats. The man at the front takes your ticket and you sit in the feces-stained plastic seat. The ride lurches to a start and you are taken upward at an unpleasant angle. Just as you reach the peak, a skinny teenager three cars in front of you vomits, the acidic chunks fly back into your eyes and, as you scream in horror, mouth. When you finally stop breathing around the third loop, you don't know if you die from choking or suffocation. But, hell, there are worse ways to go.

No pride in the euthanasia line.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

Monkeytime posted:




No pride in the euthanasia line.

Starting a band called this. Can't wait to meet you and your friend in court!

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010

No article, but apparently Everest is getting it's tribute from the earthquakes in Nepal. An ice sheet crashed through the Sourthern Base Camp.

3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number


College Slice

bulletsponge13 posted:

No article, but apparently Everest is getting it's tribute from the earthquakes in Nepal. An ice sheet crashed through the Sourthern Base Camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JC_wIWUC2U

the mountain hungers

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


Holy poo poo that is loving terrifying.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

bulletsponge13 posted:

Holy poo poo that is loving terrifying.

That's just spindrift from the main avalanche. The main avalanche occurred under the Khumbu ice fall, and has left hundreds unaccounted for.

Fig. 1: Khumbu Icefall

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Mount Everest: New Game Plus

Khazar-khum
Oct 22, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
2nd Battalion

Wasabi the J posted:

That's just spindrift from the main avalanche. The main avalanche occurred under the Khumbu ice fall, and has left hundreds unaccounted for.

Fig. 1: Khumbu Icefall



That's scary all by itself. And you're saying it's now even worse?

Screaming Idiot
Nov 26, 2007

JUST POSTING WHILE JERKIN' MY GHERKIN SITTIN' IN A PERKINS!

BEATS SELLING MERKINS.
Is Green Boots okay??? :ohdear:

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Khazar-khum posted:

That's scary all by itself. And you're saying it's now even worse?

The Khumbu is MASSIVE. Literally miles of house-sized boulders of ice.

From the Everest thread:

Blitter posted:


The green section is the basecamp area, and it was some quantity of the Pumori ridgeline that came down.

Big Centipede
Mar 20, 2009

it tingles

Midnight Voyager posted:

Have you ever seen one of them in person? Because every single relative I have has had their life threatened by one of those motherfuckers at some point in time.

I was working one day and I hear incoherent screaming. I looked out the window and there was my smoker cousin, running like his life depended on it. Following him was a water moccasin. It chased him all the way down the road until someone finally got a gun. 7Apparently he was just out by his car talking on his cell phone and smoking when he saw this snake zipping at him from the direction of the pond.

My dad was surveying in someone's yard when one came up to him and went loving crazy biting his boot. He was lucky it didn't pierce skin.

I was turning on a hose in the yard. There was a water moccasin nesting in the water main about twenty feet away. I noticed it immediately and made an effort to stay well away. Did that keep it from zipping at me, ready for murder? NOPE.

Nobody I know has so much as touched them or messed with them in any way to get attacked. Either you have bizarro moccasins or the ones around here are made of pure loving hate.

Yeah, I've personally caught and relocated dozens. Also, I've kept them as pets. I'm not calling you a liar, but short of maybe a mamba, snakes aren't going to persue a person

https://youtu.be/ePnZakZ5wgk

BOOTY-ADE
Aug 30, 2006

BIG KOOL TELLIN' Y'ALL TO KEEP IT TIGHT

bulletsponge13 posted:

Holy poo poo that is loving terrifying.

If there was ever any good, solid, valid reason to never climb Everest, and pictures of dead people don't deter visitors...that avalanche video should do the trick. My heart about stopped when I saw the cloud of snow and debris coming down, goddamn :stonk:

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

That will be a really fun place to visit in 10-20 years. Better than Rainbow Ridge by far.

Zipperelli.
Apr 3, 2011



Nap Ghost

Big Centipede posted:

Yeah, I've personally caught and relocated dozens. Also, I've kept them as pets. I'm not calling you a liar, but short of maybe a mamba, snakes aren't going to persue a person

https://youtu.be/ePnZakZ5wgk

You must not live in Florida. Those assholes have chased me out of a lake on MORE than one occasion.

Nightmare Zone
Aug 3, 2014

Do you like sucking jalapenos?
I've lived in Florida and never been chased by any snake despite getting very close to several of them, including cottonmouths. They don't pursue humans. Plus, lakes are their homes. Of course they're gonna be swimming around in there. Along with alligators n poo poo. Don't go in the water if you don't wanna encounter the things that live in it?

CrotchDropJeans
Jan 4, 2015
I lived in Florida for most of my life and pretty much all my encounters with water moccasins have been completely benign--stuff like "oh look, there's one, let's go away." Except one time that I posted about on the previous page where I startled one on a trail and it chased me for a few feet. It does happen, but it's by no means common enough to be considered a universal behavioral trait.

Transistor Rhythm
Feb 16, 2011

If setting the Sustain Level in the ENV to around 7, you can obtain a howling sound.

After learning about it a few years ago, I've become really fascinated with the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse that happened in Kansas City in 1981. We go through life just kind of accepting and assuming that structures are sound and that the people involved in designing and building buildings know what they're doing. In this case, with all of the structural engineering panache of a child building with legos for the first time, a walkway was basically hung off of the bottom of another walkway without any proper support. When loaded with people for a party, the whole works came down. Terrifying!



equals

Transistor Rhythm has a new favorite as of 20:23 on Apr 27, 2015

Nouvelle Vague
Feb 16, 2011

Endut! Hoch Hech!
On the topic of building collapses, I've always been drawn to the Sampoong Department Store Collapse especially since it was basically caused by the rapid expansion and corruption in South Korea. It was just so loving deadly.

bean_shadow
Sep 27, 2005

If men had uteruses they'd be called duderuses.

Transistor Rhythm posted:

After learning about it a few years ago, I've become really fascinated with the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse that happened in Kansas City in 1981. We go through life just kind of accepting and assuming that structures are sound and that the people involved in designing and building buildings know what they're doing. In this case, with all of the structural engineering panache of a child building with legos for the first time, a walkway was basically hung off of the bottom of another walkway without any proper support. When loaded with people for a party, the whole works came down. Terrifying!



equals



I live here in KC and this city is terrible about its history. Unless it's about football or baseball of course (the last time the Chiefs were even in the Super Bowl was when man first walked on the moon). You would never know Disney and Hemmingway started their careers here, for instance. Or maybe I just run with stupid people.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Nouvelle Vague posted:

On the topic of building collapses, I've always been drawn to the Sampoong Department Store Collapse especially since it was basically caused by the rapid expansion and corruption in South Korea. It was just so loving deadly.

Wikipedia's got a hell of a way to put it:

quote:

It was the deadliest building collapse since the Circus Maximus collapse in c. 140 AD and until the September 11 attacks

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Nouvelle Vague posted:

On the topic of building collapses, I've always been drawn to the Sampoong Department Store Collapse especially since it was basically caused by the rapid expansion and corruption in South Korea. It was just so loving deadly.

I was actually staying in Seocho-dong (about a ten minute walk away from that building) when that happened. I'd been in that store before, so it was quite shocking to turn on the news one night and find out that apparently someone had taken a huge meat cleaver to it. That was what really stuck out to me about the collapse--it was really clean. It almost looked like one of those cross-section diagrams except for the rubble.

There's a residential complex where it used to be now and people still say the underground parking lot is haunted. :v:

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Nouvelle Vague posted:

On the topic of building collapses, I've always been drawn to the Sampoong Department Store Collapse especially since it was basically caused by the rapid expansion and corruption in South Korea. It was just so loving deadly.

quote:

The last to be rescued, 19-year-old Park Seung-hyun (박승현; 朴昇賢), was pulled from the wreckage 17 days after the collapse with a few scratches. She said that she heard the sounds of other survivors drowning in the fire department's deflation(?) water.

:stonk:

That is just the worst. You survive a massive multi-story building collapse, only to drown in the water sprayed on the rubble by the fire department.

KozmoNaut has a new favorite as of 21:50 on Apr 28, 2015

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

:stonk:

That is just the worst. You survive a massive multi-story building collapse, only to drown in the water sprayed on the rubble by the fire department.

Better or worse than burning alive or suffocating on smoke? Seems like there are few good options at that point.

InediblePenguin
Sep 27, 2004

I'm strong. And a giant penguin. Please don't eat me. No, really. Don't try.

quote:

On the morning of June 29, the number of cracks in the area increased dramatically, prompting managers to close the top floor and shut the air conditioning off. The store management failed to shut the building down or issue formal evacuation orders, as the number of customers in the building was unusually high, and they did not want to lose the day's revenue. However, the executives themselves left the premises as a precaution.
end capitalism forever

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Imagined posted:

Better or worse than burning alive or suffocating on smoke? Seems like there are few good options at that point.

Worse, because you die by the hands of the people who are supposed to save you.

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?

Nckdictator posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge

(apologies for the Cracked watermark, largest version i could find)



Reminds me of the Tasman Bridge Disaster

quote:

The Tasman Bridge disaster occurred on the evening of 5 January 1975, in Hobart, the capital city of Australia's island state of Tasmania, when a bulk ore carrier travelling up the Derwent River collided with several pylons of the Tasman Bridge, causing a large section of the bridge deck to collapse onto the ship and into the river below. Twelve people were killed, including seven crew on board the ship, and the five occupants of four cars which fell 45 m (150 feet) after driving off the bridge.





quote:

Two drivers managed to stop their vehicles at the edge, but not before their front wheels had dropped over the lip of the bridge deck. One of these cars contained Frank and Sylvia Manley.

Sylvia Manley: "As we approached, it was a foggy night...there was no lights on the bridge at the time. We just thought there was an accident. We slowed down to about 40 km/h and I'm peering out the window, desperately looking to see the car...what was happening on the bridge. We couldn't see anything but we kept on travelling. The next thing, I said to Frank, "The bridge is gone!" And he just applied the brakes and we just sat there swinging.[3] As we sat there, we couldn’t see anything in the water. All we could see was a big whirlpool of water and apparently the boat was sinking. So with that, we undid the car door and I hopped out."[4]

Frank Manley: "[Sylvia] said “The white line, the white line’s gone. Stop!" I just hit the brakes and I said “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t stop.” And next thing we just hung off the gap...when I swung the door open, I could see, more or less, see the water...and I just swung meself towards the back of the car and grabbed the headrest like that to pull myself around.[4] There's a big automatic transmission pan underneath [the car] - that's what it balanced on."

Comstar has a new favorite as of 12:13 on Apr 29, 2015

ubergnu
Jun 7, 2002

Failed gothic
Yeaaahh, that's when you get you turbo pant crapping on.

pookel
Oct 27, 2011

Ultra Carp

KozmoNaut posted:

:stonk:

That is just the worst. You survive a massive multi-story building collapse, only to drown in the water sprayed on the rubble by the fire department.

I was thinking, surviving trapped in the wreckage of a multi-story building collapse, listening to other people dying around you, for 17 days, has got to be pretty loving bad. How did she even survive that long?

New Leaf
Jul 24, 2013

Dragon Balls? Are they tasty?

pookel posted:

I was thinking, surviving trapped in the wreckage of a multi-story building collapse, listening to other people dying around you, for 17 days, has got to be pretty loving bad. How did she even survive that long?

That was my first thought. Being in the right area might get you access to a busted vending machine or something, but unless someone was feeding her fresh water, I doubt she really only had a few scratches when it was all said and done.

pookel
Oct 27, 2011

Ultra Carp

New Leaf posted:

That was my first thought. Being in the right area might get you access to a busted vending machine or something, but unless someone was feeding her fresh water, I doubt she really only had a few scratches when it was all said and done.

Looking into it only made me more puzzled.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/428266/SURVIVOR-IS-MOST-STARTLED-OF-ALL.html?pg=all

quote:

Park was weak but stable Saturday after being pulled from a tiny pocket in the jumble of concrete slabs, a scratch on the leg her only visible injury.

"She said that she was thirsty, and she asked what today's date was," said Lee Yoo-mee, the nurse who initially treated Park. "When I told her the date, she replied that too many days had passed."

Park was the third survivor to be pulled this week from the remains of the five-story building, which collapsed June 29.

"I thought I would be lucky to have her remains returned to me. But what I have here is a miracle," said her father, tears running down his wrinkled face.

Doctors have said that with enough water, those who escape initial injury could live up to 20 days. But Park told doctors she had nothing to drink.

Literally Kermit
Mar 4, 2012
t
Well if we're gonna talk about genuine engineering gently caress-ups, meet Galloping Gertie:



quote:

The 1940 Tacoma Narrows Bridge, the first Tacoma Narrows Bridge, was a suspension bridge in the U.S. state of Washington that spanned the Tacoma Narrows strait of Puget Sound between Tacoma and the Kitsap Peninsula.

It opened to traffic on July 1, 1940, and dramatically collapsed into Puget Sound on November 7 of the same year. At the time of its construction (and its destruction), the bridge was the third longest suspension bridge in the world in terms of main span length, behind the Golden Gate Bridge and the George Washington Bridge.

For those of you who don't drive cars or are vampires and thus cannot cross moving water, bridges ain't 'posedta do that wavy thing. What eventually happens is something we now understand well - thanks to loving Galloping Gertie.



The good news: when the bridge collapse a few months after it opened, there was only one fatality. Unfortunately it was an adorable cocker spaniel named Tubby.

Tubby belonged to a little girl who was no where near the bridge, but her father was forced to leave Tubby behind as he slow crawled 500 yards to relative safety of the towers. The road was whipping the entire car from one side to the other and the dog was too loving terrified to leave it. Two others attempted to save Tubby during a lull because this is real life and not some cynical comic book bullshit but unfortunately again the dog nipped at his would be rescuers. The poor thing went down with the bridge.

So, anyway, there was an inquiry.


Shown here in the form of interpretive dance

Tubby was cleared of all charges. His owner's father was compensated for the car and everything in it, including our hero. And so ended the story of- Oh, right, the collapsed bridge! Yeah, we should probably wrap up the loose ends.

gently caress-ups like this require a little more than shrugging ones shoulders and saying how at least we learned something. On the other hand, this wasn't something you could chalk up to incompetent assholery, either - the suspension bridge was time-tested at this point, and in fact the lead on this was Leon Moisseiff, the noted New York bridge engineer who served as designer and consultant engineer for the Golden Gate Bridge.

Moisseiff was approaching 70, and he had a strong reputation as a good consulting engineer. He was an early believer in all-steel bridges, which began to replace steel-and-concrete designs in the 1920's. He also was well-known for his work on "deflection theory," which held that the longer bridges were, the more flexible they could be.


Gonna just enjoy some Lipton here while that last part sinks in.

Moisseif wanted a bridge to call his own - for all his consult on bridge design, he'd never been lead engineer on any. Meanwhile, a Washington State engineer was already already on the job.

quote:

Washington State engineer Clark Eldridge produced a preliminary tried-and-true conventional suspension bridge design, and the Washington Toll Bridge Authority requested $11 million from the Federal Public Works Administration (PWA).

Preliminary construction plans by the Washington Department of Highways had called for a set of 25-foot-deep (7.6 m) trusses to sit beneath the roadway and stiffen it.

Pretty reasonable. However in this line of work, there's only one thing that trumps 'reasonable', and that's "We can make it cheaper!" So Moisseif put a word in:

quote:

However, according to Eldridge, "Eastern consulting engineers"—by which Eldridge meant Leon Moisseiff, the noted New York bridge engineer who served as designer and consultant engineer for the Golden Gate Bridge—petitioned the PWA and the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC) to build the bridge for less.

Moisseiff proposed shallower supports—girders 8 feet (2.4 m) deep. His approach meant a slimmer, more elegant design, and also reduced the construction costs as compared with the Highway Department's design. Moisseiff's design won out, inasmuch as the other proposal was considered to be too expensive. On June 23, 1938, the PWA approved nearly $6 million for the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Another $1.6 million was to be collected from tolls to cover the estimated total $8 million cost.

When we continue in part 2, we'll expand on why this was a Terrible Idea, but in brief:

quote:

The decision to use such shallow and narrow girders proved to be the original Tacoma Narrows Bridge's undoing.

Karma Monkey
Sep 6, 2005

I MAKE BAD POSTING DECISIONS

Literally Kermit posted:

Well if we're gonna talk about genuine engineering gently caress-ups, meet Galloping Gertie:




He also was well-known for his work on "deflection theory," which held that the longer bridges were, the more flexible they could be.


Well, he was right about that. Looks pretty drat flexible alright.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe

Karma Monkey posted:

Well, he was right about that. Looks pretty drat flexible alright.

I can't remember where I heard it, and as I type this I suspect it's bullshit, but big things like buildings are designed to wobble a little, accounting for winds/etc. The idea is that if there's forces like that acting on the building, it's safer to design in a little bit of bend versus something snapping off.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

MisterBibs posted:

I can't remember where I heard it, and as I type this I suspect it's bullshit, but big things like buildings are designed to wobble a little, accounting for winds/etc. The idea is that if there's forces like that acting on the building, it's safer to design in a little bit of bend versus something snapping off.

Yeah, to be fair, despite the eventual collapse it looks like it lasted waaaaay longer than a really rigid bridge would have. And considering the distances you're talking about, and how much the earth moves and all the vibrations from the engines and shifting loads on it all day every day, flexibility is def an asset

but yeah that bridge was flexible as gently caress apparently hahaha

edit: fun fact I did some of the radiography/ultrasound work on the replacement bridge when it was getting built; I got hired onto the company that was subcontracted for that right at the tail end of the project.

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Literally Kermit
Mar 4, 2012
t

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Yeah, to be fair, despite the eventual collapse it looks like it lasted waaaaay longer than a really rigid bridge would have. And considering the distances you're talking about, and how much the earth moves and all the vibrations from the engines and shifting loads on it all day every day, flexibility is def an asset

but yeah that bridge was flexible as gently caress apparently hahaha

edit: fun fact I did some of the radiography/ultrasound work on the replacement bridge when it was getting built; I got hired onto the company that was subcontracted for that right at the tail end of the project.

Shhhh, spoilers! :ssh:

Unless you live near or worked on the bridge, of course.

Or know the history.

Or just clicked the link to the wikipedia article, really.

Okay, so it isn't a spoiler: not only was the bridge rebuilt (and opened in 1950), another bridge was built to handle eastbound traffic! That opened in 2007, and as SoT proves, they didn't gently caress around making sure it was safe.

And yes:

MisterBibs posted:

I can't remember where I heard it, and as I type this I suspect it's bullshit, but big things like buildings are designed to wobble a little, accounting for winds/etc. The idea is that if there's forces like that acting on the building, it's safer to design in a little bit of bend versus something snapping off.

Yes, flexibility is usually worked into structures for that very reason! Swaying is a lot less stress on the building than being totally rigid. Every material has a breaking point, and factors like thickness, shape, and even temperature have to be taken into account when building poo poo like this.

However, ol' Gertie was too flexible - we'll get into specifics why, later. But the problem wasn't that Gertie could sway a bit in the wind, it was the wind making Gertie its total bitch. And over Puget Sound, presumably, there was more than plenty wind.

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