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I'd argue it's about self-importance. If you give money to charity then you're a Good Person. If that money is taken by the government, who in turn gives it to charity, then you're just a citizen. The helping people/hurting people part isn't what matters, those are just justifications.
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Apr 29, 2015 15:27
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Mr Interweb posted:Off topic question, but has any conservative offered a reasonable defense of why it's okay to ignore all the poo poo that Jesus said about helping the poor, but that it's absolutely mandatory to listen to that one line from Leviticus about the gays? I've listened to tons of debates (admittedly, mostly involving right-wing loudmouth radio hosts, and not so much theologians) about this sort of thing, but the conservatives either never directly answer the questions, or they distract with other poo poo from the Bible. They will say that it is important for it to be voluntary. Welfare is forced so that Christians are unable to voluntarily help the poor like Jesus wanted. They are saying the deed of helping the poor is more important than actually helping the poor.
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Apr 29, 2015 15:38
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Conservatives absolutely love the government when it is helping them and only them. It's when money goes to people they don't like that they start claiming to be against it. Look at states controlled by the GOP and you'll see all kinds of government over-reach, huge spending backed by fees which paid by the poor, and laws that are intrusive into private lives. The anti-government mantra is just a cover; it makes them look like Serious People since government (run by them) are so incompetent that clearly hating public workers is the responsible and adult position.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 15:41
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Radish posted:Conservatives absolutely love the government when it is helping them and only them. It's when money goes to people they don't like that they start claiming to be against it. Look at states controlled by the GOP and you'll see all kinds of government over-reach, huge spending backed by fees which paid by the poor, and laws that are intrusive into private lives. The anti-government mantra is just a cover since it makes them look like Serious People since government (run by them) are so incompetent that clearly hating public workers is the responsible and adult position. Of course it's all a cover, but if you want to get into their head you have to understand the internal consistency of it. The kind of graft through privatization you're talking about is justified by simply declaring that anything the government might have done instead is necessarily worse. Let's say I sell the municipal water infrastructure to people who may or may not be former business partners of mine, and they proceed to amass huge amounts of taxpayer wealth. I can just say "Well shucks, just goes to show how terrible and incompetent government is! It can only be fixed by more privatization!"
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Apr 29, 2015 15:44
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On the subject of the riots, Daily Kos had a great article yesterday that highlights how racist this coverage is. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/28/1381013/-Image-Sums-Up-Embarrassing-Riot-Coverage-On-Mainstream-Media Starts with this meme:
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Apr 29, 2015 16:06
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icantfindaname posted:The standard conservative argumentation about the poor has more to do with the pathological hatred of anything to do with government than anything else, I think. At least in the technical/logical basis of the argumentation. They don't technically deny outright the plight of the poor, though most of them don't actually give a poo poo, but a hypothetical government policy is always, always worse than whatever conditions exist in reality, a position that is just taken a priori and is the core of all right-libertarian-tinted thought Luminous Obscurity posted:I'd argue it's about self-importance. If you give money to charity then you're a Good Person. If that money is taken by the government, who in turn gives it to charity, then you're just a citizen. The helping people/hurting people part isn't what matters, those are just justifications. It's largely a combination of these two things. Right-wing Christians hate government because sometimes it gets in the of way of them dominating various outgroups, ergo government always bad (except the parts of it they like). But there are also Christians who like to use the act of charity to glorify themselves. Helping people gives these people a major ego-trip. They'll also use good works as a way of deflecting criticism. "How are dare you call me heartless for wanting to drug test food-stamp recipients! I'll have you know that last month I volunteered for six hours at our church's soup kitchen." It's harder to lord your greatness over other people with social welfare programs since the the government is the one doing the work.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:25
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 Steven is interviewing on Friday Andrew W.K and the guy who went viral Antione Dawson (hide your kids and hide your wives) and expect gay marriage to come up because Antione claims he is no longer gay thanks to Jesus
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Apr 29, 2015 16:30
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 Baltighazi? Riots started by anger over a youtube video? Really, what difference at this point does it make.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:32
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
"Obama is a trickster spirit that fools white Americans into revealing their racism." -Steven Crowder
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Apr 29, 2015 16:34
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Edit: Wrong thread.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:47
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Radish posted:"Obama is a trickster spirit that fools white Americans into revealing their racism." -Steven Crowder Obama is Loki? 
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Apr 29, 2015 16:49
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Radish posted:Conservatives absolutely love the government when it is helping them and only them. It's when money goes to people they don't like that they start claiming to be against it. Look at states controlled by the GOP and you'll see all kinds of government over-reach, huge spending backed by fees which paid by the poor, and laws that are intrusive into private lives. The anti-government mantra is just a cover; it makes them look like Serious People since government (run by them) are so incompetent that clearly hating public workers is the responsible and adult position. Remember the Dixiecrats. The New Deal was fine so long as it was excluding black people.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:54
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CommieGIR posted:Obama is Loki? Since Loki was in some interpretations an outsider, and the other gods all treated him like poo poo, I can get on board with this.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:58
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
As a man raised in "post-racial America" I can say without a doubt that Steven Crowder is a loving idiot with a child's understanding of racial politics. Now I just need to make a meme with a picture of me looking intensely deranged to add authority to the dumb poo poo I have to say.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:27
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mr. mephistopheles posted:As a man raised in "post-racial America" I can say without a doubt that Steven Crowder is a loving idiot with a child's understanding of racial politics. Now I just need to make a meme with a picture of me looking intensely deranged to add authority to the dumb poo poo I have to say. Don't forget to show your wedding ring!
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Apr 29, 2015 17:29
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How old is Steven Crowder? I'm pretty sure he was a fully formed adult by the time post-racial America came into being, which- coincidentally conservative America gave each other handjobs about the second Obama was elected.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:35
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Fellatio del Toro posted:
I noticed this too. Fox knows what turns on their audience.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:56
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Chuck C Johnson was on Joe Rogans podcast a few days ago. Mostly consisted of Chuck trying to sound reasonable while questioning the existence of rape in general. Fun takeaways: - Chuck says Obama is taking over the country by putting police departments under consent decrees and federal review. No mention of how or why those departments get put under review. - Chuck and Joe have hearty laughs about a starbucks meeting of exclusively white people talking about black peoples lives and what they should do. They apperantly didn't realize they were about 45 minutes into a conversation exclusively between two rich white men about black peoples lives and what they should do. - Also, in case the last one didn't put too fine of a point on it, they then engaged in some healthy "not all men do that, I wouldn't do that" - Chuck doesn't think women today feel ashamed after being raped because of the sexual revolution. Joe questioned him on that and he says "well maybe it still exists I'm not sure" - Chuck made a video with the baltimore riots set to funny music that he thinks is edgy and cool. - Chuck is not a men's rights activist. Hes a human rights activist. Confirming for everyone else that he is indeed a men's rights activist. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 18:05
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This is what, the first time in months that this thread has talked about Chuck C. Johnson? I figured he'd have gotten himself into jail for James O'Keefe-level poo poo that he wouldn't be insulated from due to not having a rich daddy.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:06
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Chuck C Johnson was on Joe Rogans podcast a few days ago. Mostly consisted of Chuck trying to sound reasonable while questioning the existence of rape in general. I haven't listened to Rogan in a while, is he extreme left wing or extreme right wing. I can't really tell anymore
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Apr 29, 2015 18:13
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Oh poo poo I also forgot he started talking about black people being genetically prone to violence
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Apr 29, 2015 18:13
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Radish posted:"Obama is a trickster spirit that fools white Americans into revealing their racism." -Steven Crowder And America is a sad country where pockets of insanity lead to good-natured white people to suddenly just go insane out of the blue. It just lurks around corners and leaps down their throats and then next thing you know you're shooting up a school, movie theater, rushing to a university with your car full of guns because some feminist bitch is talking, or waving guns around at the police.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:14
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CommieGIR posted:Obama is Loki? "Did Obama have sexual relations with a horse to cheat a honest frost giant from his income? Just asking questions."
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Apr 29, 2015 18:34
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mr. mephistopheles posted:As a man raised in "post-racial America" I can say without a doubt that Steven Crowder is a loving idiot with a child's understanding of racial politics. Now I just need to make a meme with a picture of me looking intensely deranged to add authority to the dumb poo poo I have to say. What? People weren't talking about race for most of his life. Everything was fine until now.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:40
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When I was a sheltered child in rich Asian America I could buy that racism just "wasn't a problem anymore" and that the KKK and segregation were a thing of the past. Now, I see it rising from the grave, what with cases like the Tuscaloosa school board or Voter ID.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:43
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Flaggy posted:I haven't listened to Rogan in a while, is he extreme left wing or extreme right wing. I can't really tell anymore He's mostly a loving idiot but if I had to place him somewhere: he's far left but says he's neither like every good modern dumbass. Basically, someone turned him on to the definition of todays strawman tumblr/sjw leftist and now he feels the need to loudly declare himself as not one of those people, lest someone mistake him being reasonable on a progressive issue for WHITE KNIGHTING. He thinks superficial stuff like enjoying guns or questioning divorce law makes him a mixed breed He's a bro with a conscience and enough life/drug experience to know to not be an rear end in a top hat to people, he doesn't talk real politics much.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:44
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As a Canadian I had a good laugh at Steven Crowder saying he faced real systematic discrimination due to Quebec's language laws. https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/593173221215604736 those black guys getting killed and harassed by cops just doesn't compare.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:01
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Monaghan posted:As a Canadian I had a good laugh at Steven Crowder saying he faced real systematic discrimination due to Quebec's language laws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5l0PD80u9k Sorry just wanted the excuse to post this video clip.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:09
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I think what you're seeing in the US with the introduction of the internet, cell phone cameras and other things related to that are things finally being exposed for what they are. It was probably quite a bit easier to sweep a lot of the terrible poo poo we're witnessing under the rug because there was no "citizen reporters" at the time. We had little pop ups here and there that kind of led to this being very much a trend. Do you think Rodney King beatings are magnified in the way that they were if not for some plumber and his fancy new camcorder? People are being forced to confront a lot of problems in our society now. They're being shown facts and evidence as to why things are hosed up.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:20
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Monaghan posted:As a Canadian I had a good laugh at Steven Crowder saying he faced real systematic discrimination due to Quebec's language laws. What exactly is he complaining about? The fact the majority of Quebec speak French and so everything is either in French or English and French?
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Apr 29, 2015 19:25
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FuzzySkinner posted:People are being forced to confront a lot of problems in our society now. They're being shown facts and evidence as to why things are hosed up. Conclusion: It's Obama's fault there is more racism today.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:28
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Darkman Fanpage posted:What exactly is he complaining about? The fact the majority of Quebec speak French and so everything is either in French or English and French? It's like he had to press 1 for English IN PERSON
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Apr 29, 2015 19:35
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Obama's blackness inherently threatened Americans into understanding that the nation is actually more racist than at any point in history, because blacks are the racists, and only now whites are waking up to this fact. Think about how often even in this forum, Sharpton is called a race hustler.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:37
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Doctor Butts posted:Conclusion: It's Obama's fault there is more racism today. Well and playing upon people's racism is a very easy way to distract from someone the overall issue. I think the problem is most people don't see it as an abused of civil liberties, human rights and police brutality, but more so of "HUH. ANOTHER BLACK PERSON GOT KILLED". It would be nice if that message was quickly intercepted and turned around to show people how hosed up things are. I think people very much know his already, but before any conversation is started? The right spins it to make sure that it brings out the racism that a lot of white americans have. FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 19:38
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pentyne posted:
I recently got into a similar discussion with my staunch Libertarian brother in law. He's against Net Neutrality and (surprise) works for a telecom (ATT). He got into the whole "net neutrality is a smoke screen for the government to grab power and tax us" argument, and for all I know he may be right, but he seemed totally to oblivious to my suggestions that the internet and cable is basically an infrastructure sort of thing at this stage of the game. He made it sound like Comcast and AT&T built all that poo poo by themselves with no government help or subsidies. I tried to point out things like telephone lines, electric lines, plumbing, interstate highways, filling stations, railroads, sewage, comm satellites, cell towers and even garbage collection and poo poo, but for some reason he thought that was an apples to oranges comparison and that the web is totally different. That it's in not a valid comparison. He did enlighten me that some of those companies have built massive telecom lines UNDER THE OCEAN though. I had no idea. But he left out the parts where the government put communication satellites in space and basically laid the foundational structure for the https://www. Basically, he thinks that "Net Neutrality" is a smokescreen for a government power grab. He advised me to "do my own research" and find unbiased sources and seemed rather pissed off that I pointed out that he himself works for AT&T. What I mean is that, like Obama says, "government plays a role" and failure to acknowledge that is delusional. If free market Libertarians ever managed to take over, the first thing they'd do would be to form a government and start writing laws (that favor themselves).
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Apr 29, 2015 19:43
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Monaghan posted:As a Canadian I had a good laugh at Steven Crowder saying he faced real systematic discrimination due to Quebec's language laws. "They speak FRENCH?! The language of Surrender monkeys?! Discrimination!"
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Apr 29, 2015 19:44
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Mr Interweb posted:Off topic question, but has any conservative offered a reasonable defense of why it's okay to ignore all the poo poo that Jesus said about helping the poor, but that it's absolutely mandatory to listen to that one line from Leviticus about the gays? I've listened to tons of debates (admittedly, mostly involving right-wing loudmouth radio hosts, and not so much theologians) about this sort of thing, but the conservatives either never directly answer the questions, or they distract with other poo poo from the Bible. Jesus said a lot about 'helping' the poor but he ne'er said nothin' 'bout helpin' whores 'n such who'll just waste the help given to them, they chose their lot when they embraced sin! Jesus said to teach a man to fish, not give him a check and let him sleep all day after spendin' that check on lobster an' wine! A'sides, when good, Christian folk die we all go to Jesus so why bother helpin' people with their bodies when their 'mortal souls are what's important? An' it's more important than you'd think, we're livin' in the End Times, just like 'twas fortold in the book o' Revelation! We got a Marxist government what wants to deprive us of our life 'n liberty 'n pursuit of hap'iness with its Sharia taxes an' laws. We're in a war, a full-on war, for the very soul of America itself! Just look at this dirty Muslim bastard mock an upstandin' Christian woman for her faith! How can he even say he's Christian?
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Apr 29, 2015 19:49
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
This confirms that Andrew WK is a dumb shithead and I'm tired of people talking about how cool he is.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:50
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Nonsense posted:Obama's blackness inherently threatened Americans into understanding that the nation is actually more racist than at any point in history, because blacks are the racists, and only now whites are waking up to this fact. Think about how often even in this forum, Sharpton is called a race hustler. I've heard right wing commentators (especially Rush) say that Obama only won 2 elections because he's black and that he benefits from white guilt. If his name was David Good and he was white he would have won by historical landslides.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:50
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beatlegs posted:This confirms that Andrew WK is a dumb shithead and I'm tired of people talking about how cool he is. I need tomorrow's winning lottery numbers, stat.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:55
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