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foobardog posted:the 5  More seriously, given our history I don't really mind the Secret Service going overboard when the President is around.
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May 7, 2015 19:17
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Why doesn't he just travel by chopper if surface travel shuts down entire cities?
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May 7, 2015 19:25
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Solkanar512 posted:
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May 7, 2015 19:37
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twodot posted:It's not that the Secret Service is being unreasonable, it's that the President visiting a city doesn't generate nearly as much value as pain it causes the locals. So, once he's in the White House, the President should just lock himself in and not leave until his term is over?
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May 7, 2015 19:44
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Baronjutter posted:Why doesn't he just travel by chopper if surface travel shuts down entire cities? For the most part he does, but most buildings aren't built with helipads so he still needs to travel by car part of the way. The East Coast deals with this sort of thing a lot more than the West Coast does, so I don't think that we've got too much to complain about.
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May 7, 2015 19:50
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Thanatosian posted:So, once he's in the White House, the President should just lock himself in and not leave until his term is over? How essential are fundraisers to the functioning of our government?
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May 7, 2015 19:55
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Thanatosian posted:So, once he's in the White House, the President should just lock himself in and not leave until his term is over?
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May 7, 2015 19:58
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twodot posted:The President should weigh: A) the importance of physically going to any particular location, B) What level of protection they think is necessary for that location, and C) The local effect of applying that level of protection, and make an informed decision about what to do. Given the existence of Skype and military bases, any rational analysis is going to fall on the stay home side pretty often. Well they do weigh those things in the balance, but frankly the importance of the president physically going to any particular location is always high, since it's the president and if it wasn't important then they'd be doing something else. The level of protection is also always going to be high. The local effect of applying that level of protection is generally going to be low, since it usually only lasts for a few hours at a time, and rarely repeats for more than a day or two. The only time that it becomes an issue is when the president goes to the UN, which is in the middle of Manhattan and the visits there typically take several days and cause such massive impacts to New York traffic that even the Secret Service tries to take it into consideration.
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May 7, 2015 20:06
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Kaal posted:Well they do weigh those things in the balance, but frankly the importance of the president physically going to any particular location is always high, since it's the president and if it wasn't important then they'd be doing something else. There is a fundraiser. He's going to say words supporting some trade legislation. I don't see any reason to tolerate literally any level of disruption for this.
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May 7, 2015 20:17
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twodot posted:This is just "The President is by definition correct." which I'm going to go ahead and totally reject. Details I have about this visit: Hah, ok, call the governor and see if she thinks that your commute is more important than the president visiting her and her state.
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May 7, 2015 20:22
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My commute and the other hundred thousand people on the road. If he's going to a private fundraiser he can loving sit in traffic like everyone else.
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May 7, 2015 20:50
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Thanatosian posted:So, once he's in the White House, the President should just lock himself in and not leave until his term is over? it would be nice if the president, senate, and congrephth were held to something approaching the same standard as a normal humon workor yes
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May 7, 2015 20:54
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Kaal posted:Hah, ok, call the governor and see if she thinks that your commute is more important than the president visiting her and her state.
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May 7, 2015 21:00
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twodot posted:You realize that my whole thing here is that I think that people in power don't give a poo poo about people not in power. Noting that the governor also doesn't care doesn't work against that position at all. Especially when it's another ugly part of our modern nightmare of campaign financing.
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May 7, 2015 21:10
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Nobody gives a poo poo what your thing is honestly. Oh no the president has a security detail, stop the presses. Of all the pissant things to get  about.Ernie Muppari posted:it would be nice if the president, senate, and congrephth were held to something approaching the same standard as a normal humon workor yes No, actually it makes a lot of sense that the most powerful person in the world is treated differently than joe bob over at the local grocery.
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May 7, 2015 21:12
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twodot posted:You realize that my whole thing here is that I think that people in power don't give a poo poo about people not in power. Noting that the governor also doesn't care doesn't work against that position at all. Hey that's not entirely fair, I'm not in power and I also don't care about your commute. 
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May 7, 2015 21:13
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tsa posted:Nobody gives a poo poo what your thing is honestly. Oh no the president has a security detail, stop the presses. Of all the pissant things to get I disagree, abolish class. Joe at the grocery store's life and safety should be held equally important as anyone else's. Of course people with actual daily threats to their lives need more security resources, but only because their life is in actual danger, not because they are "more important".
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May 7, 2015 21:16
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Solkanar512 posted:
I'm sorry, I went to school in California and it stuck. Please don't expel me to the barbaric regions that surround us. 
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May 7, 2015 21:16
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tsa posted:Nobody gives a poo poo what your thing is honestly. Oh no the president has a security detail, stop the presses. Of all the pissant things to get Pretty much. Being inconvenienced once every couple years for an hour is hardly the kind of thing to be whining about. Folks who live in and around the Washington Beltway deal with this sort of thing just about every week. Welcome to the world, etc.
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May 7, 2015 21:16
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tsa posted:No, actually it makes a lot of sense that the most powerful person in the world is treated differently than joe bob over at the local grocery. and that's why they get to spend less time doing their very important job
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May 7, 2015 21:17
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I mean if you don't like it why not become president and change it? If a poor black boy from Chicago can do it I'm wondering what everyone's excuse is. It's weird to see a lot of people jumping on this right wing talking point though, dude has an expensive plane and car to go around in, get over it. He's not a prisoner; he is allowed to travel to various functions within reason.
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May 7, 2015 21:24
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Baronjutter posted:I disagree, abolish class. Joe at the grocery store's life and safety should be held equally important as anyone else's. Of course people with actual daily threats to their lives need more security resources, but only because their life is in actual danger, not because they are "more important". Class isn't involved here, it's status based on profession. Fire trucks and ambulances also get right of way on the roads because they're considered "more important". Roads and transit get closed down for public events all the time, even when it inconveniences people that don't want to attend. Society endures.
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May 7, 2015 21:25
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tsa posted:I mean if you don't like it why not become president and change it? If a poor black boy from Chicago can do it I'm wondering what everyone's excuse is. lol
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May 7, 2015 21:29
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tsa posted:I mean if you don't like it why not become president and change it? If a poor black boy from Chicago can do it I'm wondering what everyone's excuse is.
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May 7, 2015 21:47
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Come to Idaho and you won't ever have to worry about the secret service ruining your commute.
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May 7, 2015 22:18
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Damnable black helicopters will buzz you while you're camping though.
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May 7, 2015 22:37
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Same.
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May 8, 2015 06:27
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He's in Portland to give a speech at nike headquarters promoting the trans Pacific partnership.
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May 8, 2015 16:02
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Ernie Muppari posted:it would be nice if the president, senate, and congrephth were held to something approaching the same standard as a normal humon workor yes I'm not really interested in exploring the potentially history-changing outcomes of having the president stuck in traffic on I-5. I certainly don't mind waiting a little bit for someone who regularly faces assassination threats, and who's predecessors have been assassinated.
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May 8, 2015 16:18
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twodot posted:It's not that the Secret Service is being unreasonable, I dunno, I think it's likely that the Secret Service goes overboard in some ways that are essentially rear end-covering. Like shutting down light-rail trains for a large area whenever the President's on the move even if there aren't any at-grade crossings anywhere between where the President is and where he's going. I don't have a huge problem with loving up traffic for a day or two since it's only every few years that it happens anyway. The thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the thought that people trying to take an alternate form of transportation would also be held up seemingly needlessly.
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May 8, 2015 16:51
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These days literally everything the secret service does is rear end-covering.
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May 8, 2015 17:09
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Is there a thread where the Trans-Pacific Partnership is being discussed? OPB did an interview with the White House press secretary this morning and he said that TPP will supposedly cause Nike and other places to "create tens of thousands of jobs" in the US. Is there any reasoning behind how that's supposed to work, beyond "it's free trade lol"?
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May 8, 2015 17:18
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No and further more it's classified. Because negotiations are still on going with different countries, releasing the terms of the agreements may cause S. Korea to balk because say... Vietnam got better terms. 
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May 8, 2015 17:24
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twodot posted:I'm disputing what exists within reason here. Attending a fund raiser isn't a reason to inconvenience anyone. I get this happens with some frequency, but that doesn't make it good. What about critical mass? Antiwar protests? Prowar protests? Timbers games? Train jumpers? Just part of modern life. And not riding a bike.
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May 8, 2015 17:31
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Solkanar512 posted:I certainly don't mind waiting a little bit for someone who regularly faces assassination threats, and who's predecessors have been assassinated. Have there been any credible assassination threats? I've heard of crazies going too far with talk on the internet, but that's about it. What is there that could penetrate his limo that would possibly be prevented by shutting down a train that doesn't even come within eyesight of him? This isn't a loving war zone.
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May 8, 2015 17:33
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sullat posted:What about critical mass? Antiwar protests? Prowar protests? Timbers games? Train jumpers? Just part of modern life. And not riding a bike.
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May 8, 2015 17:36
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oxbrain posted:Have there been any credible assassination threats? I've heard of crazies going too far with talk on the internet, but that's about it. What is there that could penetrate his limo that would possibly be prevented by shutting down a train that doesn't even come within eyesight of him? How would you know if the President's route doesn't come within eyesight of the rail? The Secret Service mixes up routes and methods of transportation all the time, and it's likely that there are backup routes where they would need the rail shut down. As far as credible threats, you'd have to define what credible means since the standard is to investigate everything and part of being president is receiving a whole boatload of them.
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May 8, 2015 17:46
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Solkanar512 posted:How would you know if the President's route doesn't come within eyesight of the rail? The Secret Service mixes up routes and methods of transportation all the time, and it's likely that there are backup routes where they would need the rail shut down. This is absurd, since they don't clear the sidewalks wherever the motorcade might pass by, and that offers a much better position than "eyesight of the rail". If we're going to accept total paranoia why not just issue a total curfew for the metro area whenever the President is in town? Hell, there's only like 160 light-rail cars or so in the whole system anyway. Just stick a couple National Guard soldiers on each car.
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May 8, 2015 18:29
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Is there a thread where the Trans-Pacific Partnership is being discussed? OPB did an interview with the White House press secretary this morning and he said that TPP will supposedly cause Nike and other places to "create tens of thousands of jobs" in the US. Is there any reasoning behind how that's supposed to work, beyond "it's free trade lol"? There is literally nothing beyond conspiracy theory level of speculation and any thread devoted to it will devolve into that.
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May 8, 2015 18:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Is there a thread where the Trans-Pacific Partnership is being discussed? OPB did an interview with the White House press secretary this morning and he said that TPP will supposedly cause Nike and other places to "create tens of thousands of jobs" in the US. Is there any reasoning behind how that's supposed to work, beyond "it's free trade lol"? I'd put those claims of Nike's on par with Boeing's claims that giving them tax breaks will make them bring more jobs to Washington.
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May 8, 2015 18:37
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