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i concede the point about recoome from earlier, because nappa and vegeta (in my head to a lesser extent) had the whole 'unbeatable force of nature ' thing going on when they were fought. could just be the way i remember it though, i always thought goku and vegeta were more closely matched at the time
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May 7, 2015 15:52
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That's kind of why the "I have to beat Kakarot!" thing that Vegeta has doesn't make a huge amount of sense. He loses the first fight because he gets teamed up on. I guess you can argue that he'd have lost the second fight as Majin Vegeta because Goku was holding back, but he didn't actually lose the fight. It works as a "I'm sick of being behind Goku's power curve" thing, but he did totally beat Goku in their first fight.
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May 7, 2015 16:01
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facebook jihad posted:And if Goku is there the whole time, the whole 'outsmart the enemy' thing is lost since the one character who is to settle things is incapable of doing that.
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May 7, 2015 16:05
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PiedPiper posted:What about captain Ginyu? Jihad and I both said we think things go to poo poo AFTER Goku gets in the healing tank. Ginyu was before.
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May 7, 2015 16:17
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tbp posted:this is insane and namek owned bones He's right about namek having bad locale design. Speaking of which Xibanya is it me or did Toryiama somehow always manage to create a new setting for whenever fights had to take place? Discounting namek I don't think he ever used the same generic wasteland twice (Except for maybe Gohan vs Gotenks Buu). Aurain posted:It works as a "I'm sick of being behind Goku's power curve" thing, but he did totally beat Goku in their first fight. It was always about that. Especially being beaten to Super Saiyan.
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May 7, 2015 16:20
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I agree with the general idea, I just wanted to point out that "outsmarting ends with Recoome" is not that accurate of a statement. Plus, remember when Cell was defeated when Vegeta distracted him with an energy blast. T-that counts as "outsmarting", right? Right?
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May 7, 2015 16:21
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I don't know about the others but I'm just talking about Namek. I like the android/cell story a lot. E: stairmaster I will research that, especially as I promised way upthread to discuss some fight scenes and late-series DBZ art.
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May 7, 2015 16:31
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PiedPiper posted:I agree with the general idea, I just wanted to point out that "outsmarting ends with Recoome" is not that accurate of a statement. Plus, remember when Cell was defeated when Vegeta distracted him with an energy blast. T-that counts as "outsmarting", right? I'm referring only to the part on Namek before Goku shows up. Goku would still own Ginyu without Ginyu's treachery. Although I will admit the heroes outsmarting the villains sort of returns briefly after the body switch, it still points to my general complaint: it's a complete retreading of the narrative for padding's sake or whatever. I like the Namek locale just fine. The Namekians are a peaceful agricultural based society that wishes no harm on anyone before Freeza comes and fucks poo poo up, and their environment reflects that. As the Namekians are wiped off the planet, Namek begins to take on a featureless, barren wasteland reflecting the lack of life due to the genocide. It works.
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May 7, 2015 17:00
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Not much ag being shown man. Most of what we see is open wasteland. It would have actually been really cool to see a bunch of fights on tilled land, vegetables abandoned to scavengers and rot. (Even if they don't eat they might want to grow stuff for other purposes, like fiber for clothing.) The whole planet was desolate from the very beginning though so we don't get a sense of ownership on the part of the Namekians. Their villages seem like colonies as if the Namekians also just got there. Would it have killed Toriyama to give us some ruins?
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May 7, 2015 17:09
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Xibanya posted:(Even if they don't eat they might want to grow stuff for other purposes, like fiber for clothing.) Clothes beam. I think they just grew plants to keep their planet pretty and water not disgusting.
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May 7, 2015 17:15
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Rudoku posted:Clothes beam. I think they just grew plants to keep their planet pretty and water not disgusting. Off the top of my head, they might want to cultivate plants like
Xibanya fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 17:24
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Don't King Kai and Dende and all them outsmart the Hell out of Frieza at the end of the arc?
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May 7, 2015 17:24
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Xibanya posted:Off the top of my head, they might want to cultivate plants like I think the in-universe explanation was because the storm that forced the nameless Namekian to be sent to earth pretty much devastated the entirety of the planets biosphere so the plant growing is to unfuck things. I think Dende brings it up while talking Namek-stuff to Krillin and co.
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May 7, 2015 17:28
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Xibanya posted:Not much ag being shown man. Most of what we see is open wasteland. It would have actually been really cool to see a bunch of fights on tilled land, vegetables abandoned to scavengers and rot. (Even if they don't eat they might want to grow stuff for other purposes, like fiber for clothing.) The whole planet was desolate from the very beginning though so we don't get a sense of ownership on the part of the Namekians. Their villages seem like colonies as if the Namekians also just got there. Would it have killed Toriyama to give us some ruins? There was a huge flood/disaster that wiped everyone out. This was why nameless Namekian moved to Earth, I think. Guru was the only survivor and he started the species over again. The Namekians still have a long way to go, but they are getting by. I could have sworn there were depictions of gardens and things in their villages. Maybe not.
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May 7, 2015 17:32
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In-universe explanations don't excuse it since Toriyama had control over the whole thing. That's like sticking a warrior woman in a bikini and claiming she's fighting in a bikini because ~that's her culture~.
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May 7, 2015 18:04
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facebook jihad posted:There was a huge flood/disaster that wiped everyone out. This was why nameless Namekian moved to Earth, I think. Guru was the only survivor and he started the species over again. The Namekians still have a long way to go, but they are getting by. Yeah it's strange to think about, but every single Namekian in the series is either Guru, his kids or Nameless Namek and his offshoots. Piccolo, after fusing with Nail, pretty much contains within him the entirety of the Namek race. I think for someone as proud as Vegeta, the fact that a lowblooded trash like Goku forced him to fight at 100% was unforgivable, whether Vegeta beat him or not. I mean, he could rationalise Freeza and the Ginyus as just being weird alien mutants, but Vegeta was the pride of his entire species of bad motherfuckers. Some retarded hick making him break a sweat is a loving outrage.
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May 7, 2015 18:22
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Xibanya posted:In-universe explanations don't excuse it since Toriyama had control over the whole thing. That's like sticking a warrior woman in a bikini and claiming she's fighting in a bikini because ~that's her culture~. Alright, then your argument boils down to "I don't like thing". And it's ok for you not to like thing.
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May 7, 2015 18:34
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facebook jihad posted:Alright, then your argument boils down to "I don't like thing". And it's ok for you not to like thing. Yes? What other argument is there?
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May 7, 2015 18:48
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Xibanya posted:Yes? What other argument is there? I'm just saying the author has presented an aesthetic and provided a valid reason for having said aesthetic. You don't like it, but that's a matter of taste.
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May 7, 2015 18:56
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Xibanya posted:In-universe explanations don't excuse it since Toriyama had control over the whole thing. That's like sticking a warrior woman in a bikini and claiming she's fighting in a bikini because ~that's her culture~. gently caress you
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May 7, 2015 19:00
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Reading through the manga for the first time. I've watched the full original series, watched the original DBZ, all the movies and then watched all of Kai. I can safely say, with the exception of the driving school episode, I don't think there is anything the anime handled better than the comic....except Goku's super saiyan transformation. It's literally 2 panels on the same page. Goku is kinda shaking, then he yells "How dare you?!" then that's it. He's super sand man. The show really built up this legendary moment a lot better. I'm not sure if Toriyama could have really done better though.
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May 7, 2015 19:03
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KillerQueen posted:Don't King Kai and Dende and all them outsmart the Hell out of Frieza at the end of the arc? I'm not sure if you could count this as outsmarting, since I don't really blame frieza for not knowing that goku has a buddy in the afterlife that can talk to multiple people telepathically. He also didn't know that the dragon balls on earth came back.
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May 7, 2015 19:04
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facebook jihad posted:I'm just saying the author has presented an aesthetic and provided a valid reason for having said aesthetic. You don't like it, but that's a matter of taste. Yes? I don't like Namek as a setting, and that's just, like, my opinion man. I'm not a DBZ scholar, everything I say is just my opinion, including the art stuff. But if we all agreed then what would be the point of talking about it? The bikini remark is to say while the in-universe reason Namek is bare is some calamity, the calamity didn't cause the art to be that way. It's not like Toriyama had to throw up his hands and go "well I have to draw a bunch of fields and plateaus now, got no choice!" Drawing Namek the way he did was a conscious decision. He may well have had quite a valid reason for making it that way, but the Namekian calamity was not that reason. Toriyama writes in the Q&A in the back of one of the viz volumes I have that Krillin has the six burn scars on his head to add visual interest. The in-universe reason why he has those marks is that he was a monk. If Toriyama didn't want to add those dots, it's not like he would have been "well I have no choice, I mean, he's a shaolin monk!"
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May 7, 2015 19:14
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Stairmaster posted:He's right about namek having bad locale design. No.. no he didn't create anything new. The wasteland is used for most of the show, from Z-fighters vs Nappa/Vegeta, to Android 19/Gero, to Piccolo/17, then Cell, then Majin Vegeta/Goku, Gohan/Buu... Namek and the Supreme Kai Otherworld are basically just pallet swaps.
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May 7, 2015 19:18
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I'm pretty sure he made namek simple is because having to draw complicated backrounds on a weekly schedule would have likely driven him insane.
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May 7, 2015 19:19
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I remember him complaining that Cell's design was a mistake because those dots on his 'shell' was a bitch to draw.
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May 7, 2015 19:20
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Aurain posted:That's kind of why the "I have to beat Kakarot!" thing that Vegeta has doesn't make a huge amount of sense. He loses the first fight because he gets teamed up on. I guess you can argue that he'd have lost the second fight as Majin Vegeta because Goku was holding back, but he didn't actually lose the fight. He doesn't know that. Nobody bothered to ever tell him what really happened. From his perspective, Goku outpowered him, so he got mad and had to cheat to become a giant ape (which Goku couldn't do to lack of tail) to win. Like, in his head, he only could beat him due to just happening to have a cheat that Goku should, but didn't have due to circumstances. From Goku's perspective, he put every last bit of energy he had into beating Vegeta's Garlick Gun, and lost the battle because Vegeta had more energy left. But Vegeta was not good enough at sensing energy then to know that, so he just turned into a big ape. So all these years, Vegeta is all pissed off partially based on no one bothering to tell him, "oh yeah, you totally beat Goku on earth, he was drained completely and you had energy left!"
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May 7, 2015 21:34
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I thought part of why Vegeta got so loving salty is, partly, because he was forced to turn to Goku and beg him to avenge the Saiyans, and partly because Goku became what he couldn't, the Super Saiyan. If Goku had just like, used his Kaio-whatever horsecrap times fifty and killed Freeza that way, I imagine Vegeta would've been way less pissed off. Instead, not only did he have to beg this low-born dog, he ALSO fulfilled the ancient prophecy!
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May 7, 2015 21:45
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I guess I just never had a problem with Namek's design, especially considering outside of the tournaments almost every battle is fought in a wasteland. It seems weird to pick on Namek for that reason, especially when it's one of the few backgrounds that actually does change as the Freeza fight reaches his climax. Seriously, what fight in all of DB isn't fought in an environment like that? e: I'll give that most of the Red Ribbon Army battles are fought in unique environments; and maybe 18 and Vegeta, although I'm not sure how much of that fight was filler and wasn't. facebook jihad fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 23:22
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Nessus posted:I thought part of why Vegeta got so loving salty is, partly, because he was forced to turn to Goku and beg him to avenge the Saiyans, and partly because Goku became what he couldn't, the Super Saiyan. I think that's a big reason for why Vegeta has a grudge later on in the series, but even early on in the Namek saga he's pretty resentful about getting his rear end kicked. He mentions a few times that he plans on returning to Earth once he wishes for immortality, and bitch-slaps Gohan during their chance meeting as a message to send to Goku. In any case, Vegeta didn't win on Earth and a guy that prideful wouldn't care about whether he lost one-on-one or was outnumbered. Likewise it probably didn't matter to him that Goku was semi-conscious for half their battle. facebook jihad posted:I guess I just never had a problem with Namek's design, especially considering outside of the tournaments almost every battle is fought in a wasteland. It seems weird to pick on Namek for that reason, especially when it's one of the few backgrounds that actually does change as the Freeza fight reaches his climax. Most of the fights were in wastelands but there were a lot of variations in aesthetics that I can remember. Some good standout examples that I can think of are the Vegeta vs Goku fight (windblown rock outcroppings), the Piccolo vs 17 fight (island), the SSJ Goku vs Fat Buu fight (up far in the sky), the Piccolo vs Cell fight (ruined city), and so on. Namek also had a fair amount of landscape variation and I thought the anime at least did a great job of establishing landscape geography in those battles. The Ginyu fights take place on a field surrounded by some small plateaus for example while the Z-fighters take on Frieza mostly over water or on small islands.
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May 8, 2015 00:28
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DBZ wastelands are dope as poo poo ftr
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May 8, 2015 00:51
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Effort Post: More on visual storytelling and "Good Acting" We'll continue here with the next segment of Chapter 30. You can read the previous parts of this effort posting here or by clicking the ? under my name. quote:Roshi: Halt! Good morning! This part marks a shift in the boy's understanding of their training, so there's a break in beats and an actor or artist might assign a new action. (A new action should be assigned if a character gets a new goal.) What's literally happening is Roshi is leading the boys on a long run and the boys are following their teacher on a long run, but again, leaving it at that would get you some boring drawings/flat acting. Roshi: If you're the artist, what you'll choose as Roshi's essential action based on this script alone depends on the choice you want to make about Roshi's experience and personality -- is Roshi going to be a hardass drill sergeant, a kindly guide showing the way, a mischievous trickster who wants to manipulate his students? There are elements of all three. His essential action might be: "force some arrogant youngsters to learn some humility" or "give my students a taste of the difficult concepts they must master." Now let's have a look at the expressions Toriyama chose. Roshi's facial expressions are difficult to interpret due to his facial hair; consequently his eyebrows and body language do the heavy lifting.  Remember what we discussed before about balanced elements vs. unbalanced ones? Here Roshi is symmetrical and his body is perfectly vertical. He may be running but he is in control and not at all taxed.  "Halt!" Roshi's staff is an extension of himself for the purpose of emoting. Notice that as he tells the boys to stop he doesn't bother to look at them.  Here Roshi is greeting the milkman (who happens to be a bull). Interesting. Let's look at this and the last one side-by-side then It's a subtle way of showing that Roshi is a guy who wears many faces and keeps his "true self" close to the vest, something that comes into play multiple times in the series.   Talking to the milkman.    Talking to the boys.   Skipping along. Interestingly, while his pose isn't perfectly symmetrical, the staff creates visual balance since otherwise the eye would be pulled too far toward his back leg as a black shape has a stronger "pull" on the eye than white shape of the same size. Then later in the same chapter we see this:  The staff is being used for the opposite effect. Roshi's torso is still straight up and down but the staff has the effect of making him seem skewed to the side from which he is running.  Exaggerated for effect, but homeboy is bookin' it -- effortlessly. The full panel is one of chaos (it's the sweeping pan discussed earlier) so this gives the reader the impression that Roshi's speed has increased without causing him to lose his poise.    We see two other instances here of Roshi talking to the boys without facing them. is Roshi aware that is training is both weird and extremely physically taxing or is he oblivious to how nuts it might seem to an outsider? Since Roshi's personal backstory is not particularly important to telling Goku's story in this arc, (the premise of which was explored in the last effort post) this is an opportunity to tell more of his story without weighing down the main narrative with irrelevant details. The closest western archetype we have to Roshi is that of the wise fool. He intentionally acts harmless and exaggerates his own foolishness in order to draw out the foolishness of others. Near the very end of the story arc, Roshi does explicitly say "I want to foster a love of learning in these boys; for that reason I want to hide from the boys just how amazing they are because don't want them to become so arrogant that they think they have nothing left to learn." The strongest man in the world says that being the strongest is not valuable in itself - what Roshi considers intrinsically valuable is self-improvement and challenging oneself. (hey this might become a recurring idea!) But Roshi only says this on his own terms to someone he respects, someone in whom he has made an emotional connection that warrants allowing them to become his confidante. Coming back to Chapter 30's milk delivery, the only person Roshi might say this to would be Turtle, but Turtle is not the jogging type. Instead, Roshi uses his irreverent dialog and body language to basically shut off all external signs of empathy with the boys. Not only does he not feel what they are feeling, from their point of view he is incapable of feeling what they are feeling. If he were to empathize with the boys, he would say something like, "I know this is hard, but if you stick with it it will pay off!" His apparent obliviousness to the boys' struggle communicates to the boys "this is child's play - the hell is wrong with you?" Why not have him say all this in a thought bubble the way we see Krillin think "This doesn't seem so bad?" Since Goku isn't in any real danger at this point, this is one way to maintain some tension and therefore the reader's interest. Is Roshi's training actually training, or is he making them do pointless poo poo in order to amuse himself like when he made Goku fetch him pretty girls? Maybe he's actually gone senile and this won't be any help at all? These panels maintain tension by suggesting that it's possible that Goku is having his time wasted by some rear end in a top hat. You can see this reflected also in the boys' expressions. They start looking really confused at this point. Goku            Krillin             ............................................................The gently caress am I doin'? First, I want to point out: -> This one is from the sweeping panel of chaos mentioned earlier. Look at Krillin's legs - they're blurs, like he's scrambling to keep up. Contrast with Roshi's pose in which Roshi is going fast but in a calm, even way. And I also noted earlier that Krillin is unbalanced here (note how his torso leans forward.) But I want to point out something a little more subtle here. If one was going line by line in the script, it would be tempting to decide each character's expression on a panel by panel basis. quote:Roshi: All right, boys. Pick up one crate each...We're going to deliver some milk. Krillin feels surprised. OK, I'll draw him with a look of surprise. quote:Bull: Wait!! Don't tell me you're planning to do it on foot!! You're not going to use the helicopter?! This is surprising. I'll draw Goku and Krillin with a look of surprise. And yet what we see here doesn't reflect that approach: Let's back up a little and look at what would happen if you DID use that approach. We already saw this abortion of a comic:  Arousal, anger, blowjob. The Kubler-Ross model had several revisions before they settled on only five stages of grief. The context, of course, is that Quicksilver is telling Tigra that her authoritarian ways make her similar to their enemy Magneto. Since she hasn't been grappling with insecurity over any purported Magneto-like tendencies, that last panel, in which I'll remind you all that she has no dialog, doesn't seem true to her character. But let's look at one that's less obviously egregious. We're returning to Action Comics #3, where I asked you to look at the nonexpressions of those nonentity women. Now let's look at who I think is Polar Boy. I'm not familiar with his book, but from what I get he's a member of the DC version of Great Lakes Avengers (A series that was too good for this sinful earth.) In other words, he's a member of a team of joke heroes. quote:Sun Boy: (to two women at a bar) So girls, help me out. Explain to me how this guy could ever leave a planet as beautiful as Tharr, especially when there are girls here who look -- and dress -- like you. Oh hey these women have no names. I'll just call them 18 and Bulma because why the gently caress not. quote:18: You're Brek Bannin. Everybody on Tharr knows why you left. This whole dialog is a bit bizarre, but let's pretend we're the artist. We can't change the script now. OK, just going by the script, let's think of some essential actions. Sun Boy's essential action is easy. It could be "charm a beautiful woman into opening the possibility of intimate contact" or "Make my arrogant colleague feel humiliated." (Most likely the former.) Polar Boy..."show my partner that I'm not in the mood for shennanigans" or "guide my friend away from frivolous pursuits so that we can get to the important business." We see that this whole business of being in the "Subs" must be something about which Polar Boy feels insecure, otherwise he wouldn't have a bit of a freak out over it. He really seems to get worked up. If I were just reading the script, I'd assume that this bit put him in a sour mood and that he'd probably be sulking the rest of the time. After all, he's not here on a pleasure trip, he's come to this place on ~Legion Business~. So given his probable essential action here of wanting to get Sun Boy to stop trying to get his dick wet and start doing his job, I'd probably do his expressions like this: quote:Polar Boy: I'm not in the Subs anymore! I became a member of the REAL Legion. No one knows THAT part? And eventually I became the LEADER of the real Legion of Super-Heroes! The boss! The man in charge!! But we end up getting:       So we start out OK - a pissed off guy who doesn't want to be there, then we get ARGHH MY INSECURITIES!! Then an actual "gently caress you" glare at Sun Boy and then...sneering at him? Pleased to see Sun Boy get mocked by these weirdly critical random women? And then he's loving joyful! And then calm, cool, collected, as he tells Sun Boy that he brought him here on purpose basically because he respects him. This guy had his insecurities blown wide open by a bunch of strangers who are contemptuous of the main characters yet willing to blather exposition to them, then he's totally cool immediately after (whereas it would be more natural to disengage emotionally, maybe sulk) and willing to sneer at his pal then he collects himself and actually looks quite comfortable and sound. The gently caress is goin' on here? I can only guess that the artist evaluated each chunk of dialog on a panel by panel basis. "Oh here he's being insulted, that would make me angry, so he's MAD. Here is friend is getting made fun of by hot women. If that happened in front of me, I'd kinda laugh at my friend for being clueless with the ladies. Here he is next to his friend who is usually a ladies man but just got rejected. If that happened to me it'd be funny to see some king of PUA get knocked down a peg, so I'd laugh. Here he is telling a friend he trusts him when the poo poo gets real. Etc. If the artist had kept his eye on the prize (OK, if I had a job to do but my partner was wasting time, how would I react to him getting insulted by some rear end in a top hat chicks he was trying to pick up...?) then these expressions would have worked together as a cohesive whole. As it stands now, they are a series of unrelated vignettes. I'd say perhaps the artist is saying this guy is loving unhinged on purpose, but in that last pic in the sequence he seems rather composed. Now if he had been grinning manically, THAT would be characterization!  Let's have a look at the script of a page from Dragonball that is very similar but has some key differences. quote:(Goku helps Krillin get up - Krillin landed head first after jumping from his boat to the shore of Roshi's island.) We also have a character here who suddenly gets very angry when a nerve is touched. Superficially, this is the arrival of another enthusiastic kid who wants to learn from Roshi, much like Goku. At first blush it also appears that Krillin is sensitive about his bald head, like he's upset that his head is bald and feels ashamed. But that is not so. Krillin is very calm, not at all bothered, when Roshi tells him to turn around and go home. Furthermore, he isn't surprised or overjoyed when Roshi changes his mind. Yet he flips his poo poo about a comment on his bald head. What's actually going on is that Krillin is smart. He knows he's smart. I'd wager that all this was planned since before he left Orin Temple even though we never ever see a flashback of his time there or hear him say "I planned for this." Krillin knew that Roshi would turn him down at first. He knew that Roshi would cave if given some porn. He had a picture in his mind of what it would be like to train with the master. And Goku hosed it up. Goku was not a factor in Krillin's plans. But Krillin will deal with this hiccup, however grudgingly. Why would Krillin want to train with Roshi, so badly that he collects rumors about his personality and training (remember, Roshi hasn't accepted a new student in decades.) Krillin wants to train with Roshi because he's smart enough to know Roshi is the best - and Krillin wants to be the best. So no matter if Roshi already has some other student. He'll become Roshi's BEST student. So the first thing he does is put Goku down to establish that Krillin will be the top dog in the Turtle School. But not only does Goku not get put down by Krillin's power play, Goku doesn't even engage with his power play. Goku doesn't see Krillin as a threat or a rival at all. And then Goku indicates total ignorance of the most basic of customs (even a dumb westerner knows that Buddhist monks shave their heads!) Krillin busted his rear end to get here and this dipshit is going to be on equal footing with him? So Krillin loses his poo poo. I'm not 100% convinced that Krillin actually believes that Roshi shaves his head. I think this is just a further power play by Krillin. And then something else interesting happens. Remember when I was talking about panels with foreground/background characters and that the focus characters are usually irrelevant to the mental state of non-focus characters?  Well the panel in which the poo poo flipping happens looks like this:  We've been primed to believe that Roshi is just there to establish the scene but is not an active participant in the foreground event. And yet...  Check this out. We get a change in view angle, but if you really think about it, just by changing our view there's no actual way to get the characters aligned like this. But the placement is important. By not being in the center behind Krillin and Goku, Roshi enters the focus, becoming a participant in the proceedings. Roshi has effectively joined the foreground without actually moving. Furthermore, as our eyes sweet from right to left, we see Roshi ("Actually...I'm just bald.") and then Krillin's reaction to that. Rearranging Roshi's placement allows Krillin's expression to change AFTER Roshi's dialog. This line is also more than just Roshi idly correcting Krillin. First, if he was actually getting his jollies, particularly from THAT far away, he would not be listening to the conversation at hand. And he jumps in not when Krillin first insults Goku or even the second time he insults Goku. He only jumps in when Krillin paints them as equals with Goku below them. This is another example of how Roshi wears a mask to hide how competent he actually is. Of course he would want to see how Krillin acts when he's not kissing rear end. But more than that, the one thing Roshi will not abide is someone elevating themselves over others. But he would never say that out loud, so he makes putting Krillin back in his place seem like an accident. Krillin has two beats here. First when his goal is to convince the greatest martial arts master in the world to take him on as a student, and second when his goal is to establish his superior place in a hierarchy between himself and Goku. He loses his poo poo because he fails at the second one. And now the art.  And so after all that, I want to come back around to Chapter 30 and why the boys' expressions of surprise are different - and not just in chapter 30!   Krillin's here to get THE BEST martial arts education, which he picked out because he's so very clever. Goku's here because Roshi invited him and well, he's an orphan with nothing to do and he does want to get stronger after all, so it seemed like a good idea. For Goku this training is just something he's gonna do now unless he gets bored or something. For Krillin this is a deliberate step to take control of his destiny. And Krillin is worried that he made the wrong choice! Might not be as clever as he thinks. We'll come back to this in the next effort post, where we'll wrap up Chapter 30.  Bloo bloo indeed. Cheer up buddy, you'll be the strongest human on Earth some day!
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May 8, 2015 01:06
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You know, when watching the episode where Semi Perfect Cell starts blowing up islands to get 18 to appear, I swear the Training Island from those scans got destroyed.
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May 8, 2015 01:09
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I like how this looks...does that make me a bad person?
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May 8, 2015 01:12
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mycot posted:I like how this looks...does that make me a bad person? No, I picked it as a good example of the principle I was discussing. Please do like it.
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May 8, 2015 01:16
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Xibanya posted:Words of wisdom. Not going to lie, at first I was a bit annoyed with your extremely long posts. The more I read them, the more I realize how little I know about art. The critical analysis you are committing to is very detailed; the many perspectives you explore in analyzing, in what I thought was a very simple comic book, is making me look closer at the art and try to see what the author conveys. Basically, I am finding a new appreciation of manga and art. Thanks for the posts.
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May 8, 2015 02:26
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Xibanya's posts keep being great to read. They give me even more respect for a great series. That said, wow, it's hard to believe how much of a dick Krillin was at first. He might not have grown in height, but he definitely grew up as a person during the course of the series. Seeing this arrogant brat, no one would believe that he'd become Goku's closest friend.
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May 8, 2015 03:07
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loving hell Frieza saga is the best THAT'S RIGHT BOYS, MONDO COOL
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May 8, 2015 03:23
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Babe Magnet posted:loving hell Frieza saga is the best Holy gently caress, I thought I dreamt that line.
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May 8, 2015 03:25
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Babe Magnet posted:loving hell Frieza saga is the best Yeah. The Freeza saga owned
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May 8, 2015 03:57
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