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TFRazorsaw posted:I can't watch the Adventure dub at all anymore. The constant stream of jokes without any regard for pacing, the lack of consistency with plot points, the exaggeration of characters like Mimi, and the repetitive music just. I can't sit through it anymore. Show was thrown together in a few months, plugged in between Beetleborgs and something like a cartoon adaption of Roland Emmerich's 90s Godzilla. The whole point was to address this runaway Pokemon success and hope eight year olds won't leave Fox for WB. The rap stuff is dumb, but Pokemon had one, too. The film soundtrack is full of family friendly alt-pop from the days when you wouldn't let your kids hear Linkin Park, but children's properties today do the same poo poo when they try to work Bangarang into everything. I was seventeen when it originally aired, and even though I was already way out of the target demographic I managed to enjoy it after an initial period of watching it just because I hated Pokemon's license to print money. It isn't the most straightforward adaption, but it has a coherent plot beyond "I want to be the best and capture hundreds of virtual beanie babies, an impossible task as I continue to release them and Nintendo keeps making more." I also haven't sat through it since it finished airing. I'm not saying it's good, but I enjoy it's badness, and it would be weird to see it taking itself too seriously. Which is part of why I like Summer Wars much more than the Digimon movie it was actually inspired by; because it just rolls with how weird it is.
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May 7, 2015 20:44
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Honestly, once they got past the first arc, Saban were perfectly fine IMHO. Not perfect but as far as adapting a Japanese Kids cartoon without getting their teeth kicked in back in 2000 they got as much though as they can (How they got the Bath Gag in the Pagumon episode though I'll never know) When 4Kids did something right (Like, say, Yugi getting freaked out over nearly killing Kaiba) it was the exception. Saban being on point was more the rule.
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May 7, 2015 20:59
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Yeah, the only really over done moments with the comedy was the first arc, and Apoclymon. The rest really wasn't that bad, just entertaining and generally done to fit the tone of what was going on. Also, seriously, Etemon is Elvis Impersonator. That's just a fact of goddamn life. I genuinely love the Dub, especially for how pretty uncensored it was.
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May 7, 2015 21:02
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I'd say Mimi's nonexistent little brother, exaggerating her character to even more of an obnoxious superficial stereotype, and the clumsy handling of Takeru and Yamato's family situation is more than "little stuff." That's DBZ-tier "goku's father was a brilliant scientist" stuff.
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May 7, 2015 23:52
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TFRazorsaw posted:I'd say Mimi's nonexistent little brother, exaggerating her character to even more of an obnoxious superficial stereotype, and the clumsy handling of Takeru and Yamato's family situation is more than "little stuff." That's DBZ-tier "goku's father was a brilliant scientist" stuff. Except the little brother thing was just in the first arc, which more than one of us have admitted had a lot of issues- not all of them were their fault either. Mimi was a GREAT character in the dub for precisely that reason. I know one friend who loves Mimi because she was so girly and feminine but it wasn't presented as a BAD thing-it's just who she was and she was helpful and useful despite that. And they only mishandled TK and Matt's family stuff ONCE. Again, first arc, they either got their wires crossed, or just didn't know, that TK and Matt's mom and dad were divorced, and instead they said they were step brothers. However later on in the dub, much like with Mimi's nonexistent little brother, they got rid of that entirely and laid it out there. Their parents were divorced, they rarely saw each other, and things were very hard for all of them. The dub also handled all of the family drama just about flawlessly, showing the adults as complicated characters, even those that didn't get much screen time. And the way they handled Izzy's story was down right perfect, with the right amount of grace and balance, something they DID properly build up from the first arc. You are really over stating the few minor issues the Dub had at its start that it corrected as it went on.
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May 8, 2015 00:02
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Mimi is that way in the original. She's girly and friendly and doesn't change in that aspect at all. The dub's problem is that it ramps it up, piling more and more stuff on, and what it does add makes her seem more superficial and vapid than she actually is. And it's far beyond the Devimon arc. The dub utterly mangles the episode dealing with the Crest of Light, and there's also what it did to Apocalymon. As for the brothers, they didn't need to do anything in the first place. Seriously, just say what's already there. It's not a matter of censorship, either, because what they did ends up reflecting worse than divorce, implying Natsuko is either adulterous or had two children out of wedlock.
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May 8, 2015 00:29
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TFRazorsaw posted:Mimi is that way in the original. She's girly and friendly and doesn't change in that aspect at all. The dub's problem is that it ramps it up, piling more and more stuff on, and what it does add makes her seem more superficial and vapid than she actually is. Except she's still a good character who does some awesome stuff through out? And again, some people consider the dub version of her one of their favorite characters because the show, despite her being like that, never treats her any less than the others. I'm not aware of what they did to the Crest of Light, and have already brought up that Apocalymon was the other big thing that clashed. And again, from just evidence in the show itself, it seems like they honestly did not know they were the product of divorced parents. They likely got a mistranslation early on that the two were step siblings instead of full blooded brothers. Later on however they never bring the step brother thing up again and instead make it extremely clear that their parents are simply divorced. Which still works even if they ARE step brothers- you don't have to read some weird thing into it that their mom was cheating on their dad, or vice versa, it could be as simple as, if you REALLY wanted to keep them step brothers- TK's mom had Matt with his dad, they broke up, she had TK with another man. There you go. It's an error that is only said once and is utterly ignored after that, like Mimi's brother. Those happened a lot back in the day when translation teams weren't nearly as well oiled and sophisticated as they are nowadays.
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May 8, 2015 00:36
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It's been years since I saw the Adventure dub, but from what I remember, the issue isn't that they said Matt and TK were step-siblings but that they were half brothers, which is completely different. Being full brothers whose parents are divorced and don't get to see each other should be enough drama for their character arcs.
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May 8, 2015 00:40
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Some Numbers posted:It's been years since I saw the Adventure dub, but from what I remember, the issue isn't that they said Matt and TK were step-siblings but that they were half brothers, which is completely different. Yeah I kept screwing that up, but I meant half brothers. And they said it once and then never again.
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May 8, 2015 00:41
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The episode with Kentarumon is a good example of how the dub mishandles Mimi. In that one, in the original, she's angry over Koushirou ignoring her and the danger they're in, while the dub version of the episode makes her come off as far more spoiled and entitled. And then there's her bit in the Our War Game portion of the movie that goes from her being excited over vacation to smugly going "I'm wishing you were heeeeeeere" in a tone as if she were mocking her friends over not being as her. Yes, she gets her awesome moments, but they come off as her tapping into a strength IN SPITE of how she normally acts rather than the kind she had all along. As for the brothers thing, whether it was due to a mistranslation or not, the fact is, it's what's in the final product. And I don't enjoy it. For the crest thing, I'm gonna borrow what TV Tropes says: quote:In the original version, Wizardmon and Tailmon sneak into Vamdemon's hideout to recover the Crest of Light from his coffin, with Wizardmon stashing it in his clothes when Vamdemon returns, realizes what they're doing, and crushes the fake Crest that he was holding in anger. In the dub, Myotismon claims that the Crest in the coffin is another fake, and that he kept the real one on him. This might make Myotismon seem more Dangerously Genre Savvy, but he still crushes the Crest he's holding, and it's never seen how Wizardmon got a hold of the real one.
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May 8, 2015 00:52
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I'm leaving the other things alone because they're pretty subjective for different reasons. The crest thing surprises me. Mostly because I didn't realize that was an error. Like, it confused me as a kid, but then we got the big reveal at the end that the crests were useless hunks of junk that only let the kids do what they always could have done to begin with, so I just thought, and continued to think, that Kari was using the fake because it didn't matter either way and it was just clever foreshadowing. So you know. Huh.
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May 8, 2015 00:57
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mikeycp posted:I really really wish I could find a copy of the English movie (and then somehow erase the second half of it). I have it on VHS and now I'm glad I've lost the tape.
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May 8, 2015 01:33
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Onmi posted:I have it on VHS and now I'm glad I've lost the tape. You're a monster.
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May 8, 2015 01:39
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I have the original DVD.
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May 8, 2015 01:41
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mikeycp posted:You're a monster. It had a trailer for Titan A.E. at the start too, and the Angela Anaconda thing... ugh...
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May 8, 2015 01:41
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Mimi displays a bunch of characteristics that nerds enjoy in My Little Pony. Yes, she's a girly girl, but she's not ditzy or complaining that math is hard. Back in the days when I was in an online community for this show, I'd say Mimi was more popular than Sora and her "woohoo soccer; defying gender norms yeahhhh" thing and I was at that age where I didn't understand it. Part of that is that she was seen as a bit dull, some of that is because she and not Mimi was most often needing to be saved by the group.
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May 8, 2015 02:11
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I'm not trying to say Mimi isn't pink and bubbly and girly. I'm saying the dub overloaded her on the negative things people associate with that kind of character and that it was detrimental. She's much more balanced between strength and flaws in the original
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May 8, 2015 03:05
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I still have my copy of the sub movie lying around somewhere, Angela Anaconda intro et al. Still in good shape too if I recall, I just don't have a working VHS player anymore. A number of the dub changes were... strange, but ultimately I don't think it caused much actual issue with the plot. Unlike the vast majority of dubs, Digimon didn't really so much censor things as it did make random, frequently nonsensical changes that, except in a couple of cases (mostly Mimi; the thing with the brothers changings your impression of them from the outset, but ultimately the exact peculiarities of their relationship doesn't matter much aside from the fact they're grappling with how to remain family when their parents are split up), did absolutely nothing to affect anything of import. They even kept the setting in Japan, which I'm pretty sure was completely unheard of for dubs at the time? I''m also pretty sure that children's animated television had a Puns per Minute quota to fill in the 90s, so I can't really hold that against them either. The only thing I really had a problem with was the sound mixing, which went from "pretty decent" to "more or less nonexistent" for no adequately explained reason, and the music. Oh god the music. I understand people who have nostalgia for the thing, but even kid me could barely stand 54 episodes of "Hey Digimon!". On the other hand, I found "Run Around" catchy in a 90s buttrock kinda way, so maybe I don't have the high ground of taste in imported children's cartoons.
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May 8, 2015 06:46
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Classy Hydra posted:I still have my copy of the sub movie lying around somewhere, Angela Anaconda intro et al. Still in good shape too if I recall, I just don't have a working VHS player anymore. Cutting out 2/3rds of the third unrelated movie and stitching it into the other two movies is kind of a big thing.
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May 8, 2015 07:00
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Onmi posted:Cutting out 2/3rds of the third unrelated movie and stitching it into the other two movies is kind of a big thing. Sorry, was talking specifically about the series with that bit. Worded that previous post poorly. That said, cutting apart the movies is also a good example of the dub's weirdness. I see why they had problems; they couldn't release Our War Game on its own, because they didn't want to draw attention away from 02 (which was running full swing at the time). At the same time, Our War Game was significantly better received in Japan than Hurricane Touchdown, so they couldn't just excise it completely. And they certainly couldn't run a double-feature or, hell, even a particularly long theatrical release. So, in order to have their cake and eat it to (or rather, to get the benefits of War Game's quality and Touchdown's 02 advertising), they had to slice them both up into a single frankenmovie, tied together with a halfbaked invention of a connecting plotline. It's a really weird situation. I can't actually think of any comparable situation off the top of my head, honestly. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 07:16
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I watched the Digimon Movie when I was a kid and didn't really understand the plot of the second half, and then watched Digimon Hurricane Touchdown when I was an adult, hoping it would answer some questions I had about it from my childhood, and somehow understood the plot even less. Digimon Hurricane Touchdown is a loving mess of a movie. I think the liberties the dub took with it were an improvement, though nothing could save that movie.
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May 8, 2015 07:17
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Classy Hydra posted:Sorry, was talking specifically about the series with that bit. Wrong actually CMcF: As you look back on it all, I ask - what was Digimon to you? For many actors, writers, directors, whatever, such a project - any project - can always fall under the classification of "just work," but given the amount of time and the various roles you had in bringing the show to air, did it - does it - mean anything more to you? JN: Excellent question. Yes, Digimon means a lot to me, but mostly for professional reasons. It's rare that you get to work on a show that's a bonafide hit, and Digimon certainly qualified as one. It gave me a good feeling that I could deliver big ratings for a show, given the opportunity. But also, it gave me the opportunity to write and direct a major motion picture, and even though that experience was less than satisfactory for me personally, still, I took a lot of pride in the first cut of the movie that I turned in, before a lot of changes were made to it that I didn't agree with. I wish they had marketed the movie better, and I wish they would've left my first cut alone, but what's done is done, and it still didn't tarnish the fact that I had the chance to make a movie, which is a chance a lot of people in this business never get. Digimon made my reputation, and even though a lot of fans think I ruined the series, I do get a lot of respect in television for my work on the show, so I'm very thankful for that. My tenure with Digimon came to a crashing halt, and it left a very bad taste in my mouth, but this last movie reminded me of what I loved about the series, the characters, and the actors. So I'm especially thankful I got one more chance to do it my way. A little redemption goes a long way. CMcF: I wouldn't be much of a fan if the mention of an original cut didn't seize my attention. Can you share anything more about it? How different was it? What was changed? JN: The first cut didn't have any of the footage with the season 2 characters, and it wasn't bogged down with the Willis story line, which I've always felt was crammed in to the first two parts, just to try and make the last part make more sense. I wanted to end it right after the Omnimon destroying Diaboromon segment, and then release that other movie seperatetly as a TV movie, or DVD. But I was overruled, and Bob and I were forced to make it all make sense. These decisions led to my eventual departure. So pretty much the first cut was the same as the final cut, only without Willis, and it ended after Diaboromon was destroyed and the missle lands harmlessly in the bay, with Izzy and Tai delivering a tag line before we cut to black. Also, I had Tai narrating the story, not Kari, but Tai wasn't in the third part, so I had to change the narrator to Kari to keep it more logical.
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May 8, 2015 07:21
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Onmi posted:Wrong actually That... doesn't disagree with what I said? My point was that the producers and marketers wanted Our War Game but also wanted to market season 2, so they mandated that the movies be cut together to get (what they would see as) the best of both world. That interview tells us the director wanted to just do Our War Game, but was overruled (presumably by the producers and marketers) and told to splice it with Hurricane Touchdown. I guess the revelation that the initial cut only had Our War Game means that the splice happened later in development than I suspected it did. EDIT: Mr. Trampoline posted:I watched the Digimon Movie when I was a kid and didn't really understand the plot of the second half, and then watched Digimon Hurricane Touchdown when I was an adult, hoping it would answer some questions I had about it from my childhood, and somehow understood the plot even less. Digimon Hurricane Touchdown is a loving mess of a movie. I think the liberties the dub took with it were an improvement, though nothing could save that movie. This is also true. It was an 02 movie though so what did you expect. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 07:34 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 07:31
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It's a crying shame that they weren't able to release Our War Game by itself, because that movie is one of the few Digimon movies (that I've seen) that is any good. Okay, the Tamers train movie is pretty decent, but it's apparently not canon with Konaka's version of the end of Tamers. Speaking of Digimon movies, does anyone know when the Frontier movie is supposed to take place? I know it can't actually fit into the series anywhere and I'm not sure I want to add it to my Trip Reports, but in case I decide to, I'd like to watch it as close to the right time as I can.
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May 8, 2015 07:34
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Classy Hydra posted:Sorry, was talking specifically about the series with that bit. Worded that previous post poorly. Robotech. Classy Hydra posted:I understand people who have nostalgia for the thing, but even kid me could barely stand 54 episodes of "Hey Digimon!". On the other hand, I found "Run Around" catchy in a 90s buttrock kinda way, so maybe I don't have the high ground of taste in imported children's cartoons. You can say bad things about 02, but the drat buttrock music was catchy as all hell.
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May 8, 2015 08:04
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Burkion posted:Except she's still a good character who does some awesome stuff through out? And again, some people consider the dub version of her one of their favorite characters because the show, despite her being like that, never treats her any less than the others. did we watch the same dub
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May 8, 2015 10:50
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Classy Hydra posted:Sorry, was talking specifically about the series with that bit. Worded that previous post poorly. Some Numbers posted:It's a crying shame that they weren't able to release Our War Game by itself, because that movie is one of the few Digimon movies (that I've seen) that is any good.
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May 8, 2015 11:08
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vivisecting posted:did we watch the same dub The other characters may call her annoying from time to time, but as far as plot significance she was just as important as the others. Hell I'm pretty sure what Mimi does and how she was reacted to in the show was the same in the dub as it was in the original. The one thing I cannot ever excuse, EVER, the dub for is the god awful music changes. If there was a way to get the dub lines with the Japanese music, you'd have my favorite version of the show.
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May 8, 2015 16:01
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Mr. Trampoline posted:I watched the Digimon Movie when I was a kid and didn't really understand the plot of the second half, and then watched Digimon Hurricane Touchdown when I was an adult, hoping it would answer some questions I had about it from my childhood, and somehow understood the plot even less. Digimon Hurricane Touchdown is a loving mess of a movie. I think the liberties the dub took with it were an improvement, though nothing could save that movie. Anybody who doesn't turn The Digimon Movie off after OWG ends is a crazy person.
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May 8, 2015 17:34
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mikeycp posted:Anybody who doesn't turn The Digimon Movie off after OWG ends is a crazy person. Not going to lie, I only ever did that.
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May 8, 2015 17:35
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Burkion posted:The other characters may call her annoying from time to time, but as far as plot significance she was just as important as the others. Hell I'm pretty sure what Mimi does and how she was reacted to in the show was the same in the dub as it was in the original. How can you watch Digimon without Going Digital?  I think you're giving us the Run Around and trying to Kick It Up.
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May 8, 2015 17:38
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Burkion posted:
This is just wrong.
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May 8, 2015 17:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is just wrong. I will never be right, I have come to accept this.
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May 8, 2015 17:49
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The English Adventure soundtrack is the closest humanity has got to having a whole anime backed by Crush 40. It is art.
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May 8, 2015 17:52
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is just wrong. Yeah, a perfect version would be a dub that found a way to preserve the beauty of both soundtracks.
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May 8, 2015 17:53
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I keep forgetting that there are tons and tons of people who have experienced Digimon Adventure without Bolero in the soundtrack and I'm having trouble reconciling that. I'm even willing to ignore that the Saban dub replaced Butter-fly. Adventure is a completely different show without Bolero.
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May 8, 2015 18:11
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Now to be serious for a moment, I do have a legit reason for why I think I prefer the dub over the Japanese original. That isn't just nostalgia. I compared the Japanese version to the dub and honestly? The dub gives the characters more life. Especially the Digimon. One of the best examples I can pull off is episode 21. When Agumon is being dragged back to the Digital World, the two versions have VERY different things for him to say. The Dub has him say "I'm needed in Digi-World. I'll never forget you my friends!" The Japanese version has him say "Taichi...Hikari...Bye Bye." The Digimon in the Japanese version in general seem to be far less articulated, far more simple characters than the dub versions. I guess I just prefer that take on them. That and I adore the some times AWFUL voices (GARUDAMON) of their other forms but that's entirely subjective.
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May 8, 2015 18:16
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The dub is better cause literally any reason for me to still care about the first season of digimon is pure nostalgia.
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May 8, 2015 18:26
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Agumon has the worst voice IMO. The worst part is that it doesnt even fit any of his forms. The dub's take on doing different voices for each form is way better. (They might have been the same person but they sounded different enough)
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May 8, 2015 18:31
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I loved the movie version of Hurricane Touchdown. Kerpymon is my favorite digimon. Really need to watch the full thing sometime.
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May 8, 2015 18:50
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