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counterfeitsaint posted:Kevin Sorbo will only appear if he can play a strawman atheist college profession who gets owned by all the much smarter religious people. He just hasn't been the same since God gave him a stroke.
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May 15, 2015 19:25
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Snak posted:He just hasn't been the same since God gave him a stroke. drat you, Ares! 
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May 15, 2015 19:33
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Guess that means we have to fall back on Arnie.
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May 15, 2015 20:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:Kevin Sorbo will only appear if he can play a strawman atheist college professor who gets owned by all the much smarter religious people. He's a shoo-in for the grim and grounded reboot of Bibleman
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May 16, 2015 03:54
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Finally done binge-watching. Final costume looked kind of stupid. Otherwise, series loving owned. Welp, that's my hot take. Thanks for listening, thread. e: Oh and we better get goddamn Typhoid next season or I'll... uh... shake my fist impotently in rage
Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 08:00 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 07:48
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Serf posted:According to what we know from Thor, their magic is actually just highly-advanced technology, beyond our understanding. Which is bullshit considering what it can do, but that is the canon explanation. How this relates to Dr. Strange and Iron Fist and the Hand I don't know. I'd love for Thor to see Dr. Strange cast a spell and just go "okay yeah that's magic." Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. That explanation works for me, because magic is only "magical" in the sense it's inexplicable. If you could explain it on some technical level, it'd become something else.
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May 17, 2015 10:22
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Xealot posted:That explanation works for me, because magic is only "magical" in the sense it's inexplicable. If you could explain it on some technical level, it'd become something else. Which is why the corollary is "any sufficiently advanced magic is indistuinguishable from technology."
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May 17, 2015 10:32
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Xealot posted:That explanation works for me, because magic is only "magical" in the sense it's inexplicable. If you could explain it on some technical level, it'd become something else. That's why everyone hated "The Force" being explained by science. With a few days between me finishing DD and now, the thing I think that sticks the most is how well they captured the feel of the comic book. The red costume has very little to do with Matt Murdock or Daredevil. The best of Daredevil is really a story of a man trying to fight for justice in an unjust world. This man has special gifts both physically and academically. He fights using the law and, when necessary, outside of it. But his most important character trait is his sheer willpower to keep fighting.
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May 17, 2015 13:57
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nelson posted:The red costume has very little to do with Matt Murdock or Daredevil. The best of Daredevil is really a story of a man trying to fight for justice in an unjust world. I agree. And I'd say similar things are true of most of Marvel's successful characters, even if the world they occupy is tonally or thematically very different from this one. Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in particular are very well-conceived, in that you could describe both at length without even bringing up their power-set or costume. Their perspectives and goals and personalities characterize them so coherently and completely, scenes with them are compelling just in plainclothes. Marvel may be a sausage factory in many ways, but they definitely get their characters and hire people with a strong sense of how to represent them. Comparing this show to the Ben Affleck movie is so jarring, because here, they really get it. And in that movie, they really, really didn't.
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May 17, 2015 14:24
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Xealot posted:I agree. And I'd say similar things are true of most of Marvel's successful characters, even if the world they occupy is tonally or thematically very different from this one. I think it's just the case that the writer doing that particular story you liked is good, as aways, I don't think Marvel characters are any better in any way inherently.
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May 17, 2015 15:45
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program666 posted:I think it's just the case that the writer doing that particular story you liked is good, as aways, I don't think Marvel characters are any better in any way inherently. That's probably true now, but historically speaking what made Marvel different was its focus on real people with real life problems and challenges, who happened to have super powers. The person beneath the mask if you will. Superman was Superman and Clark Kent was just his secret identity. But Peter Parker was Peter Parker. Spiderman was his secret identity. e:Stan Lee Interview from 1977: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJ-t60ywL4 nelson fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 21:08
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That's not true, Quentin Tarantino.
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May 17, 2015 21:54
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Bruceski posted:Which is why the corollary is "any sufficiently advanced magic is indistuinguishable from technology." Not really.
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May 17, 2015 23:07
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nelson posted:That's probably true now, but historically speaking what made Marvel different was its focus on real people with real life problems and challenges, who happened to have super powers. The person beneath the mask if you will. Superman was Superman and Clark Kent was just his secret identity. But Peter Parker was Peter Parker. Spiderman was his secret identity.
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May 17, 2015 23:13
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program666 posted:And a few years after that Jack Kirby was doing weird poo poo with new gods that don't fit anywhere in this theory, and much later alan moore would be much much weirder.
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May 17, 2015 23:25
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alan moore? hell yeah no discussion, jack kirby? that gimmick of supers recruiting normal people was pretty cool yeah? what's your problem with it?
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May 17, 2015 23:49
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I definitely liked Spider-Man as a kid at least partially because he wasn't super-everything. Especially that he had a small budget. I remember one issue where he got a new apartment with a skylight and he was pumped because he could use that as an entrance/exit because he's Spider-Man, and then started fantasizing about getting a sweet custom Spider-Van but then remembered he just got a new apartment and couldn't afford it. He still only had a fairly lovely job and his boss hates him and all his Spider-Manning is like his off hours hobby. I also had no problem with him being married to Mary Jane, because Spider-Man gets poo poo on a lot all day long most of the time so it's cool that he at least has a hot and supportive wife to come home to, and by having that living arrangement he's not shackled to his Aunt quite as hard and often, because yeah if there's one thing the kids just LOVE in their comic books it's an old lady telling the hero to be careful constantly and somehow never dying even though she's like 1000 years old.
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May 18, 2015 01:03
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Daredevil was one of my favorite comics as a kid but I don't remember much about it now. The tv series spent a lot of time on actors whose stories went nowhere. Wesley and Urich were important to Karen's development but each had a lot of screentime, as much as Murdock/DD, then poof. Leland gets a lot of screentime then falls down an elevator shaft. Claire is there a lot, then disappears, wtf. At times it felt the writers lacked direction.
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May 18, 2015 04:24
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wormil posted:Daredevil was one of my favorite comics as a kid but I don't remember much about it now. The tv series spent a lot of time on actors whose stories went nowhere. Wesley and Urich were important to Karen's development but each had a lot of screentime, as much as Murdock/DD, then poof. Leland gets a lot of screentime then falls down an elevator shaft. Claire is there a lot, then disappears, wtf. At times it felt the writers lacked direction. I disagree. Wesley's presence was very important because it created a central character to be the face of Wilson Fisk's empire, as well as to give Fisk someone to play off of in scenes. The show absolutely needed a Wesley character. Urich made the investigation credible, they needed a Commissioner Gordon type character, a character that represents wisdom and the establishment in the face of their brashness. IMO Leland was great as comic relief. Him just tasering Daredevil and driving off was pretty understated as a gag, but is hilarious in retrospect, he's just this normal scummy semi-criminal business guy in a world of ninjas and superheroes. Him getting thrown down an elevator shaft is pretty fitting, given the way Fisk was transitioning from unscrupulous millionaire to full on criminal supervillain.
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May 18, 2015 05:06
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Yeah unfortunately they had a lot of really cool supporting characters and killed off all of em. I hope the future stuff will have new people that are equally entertaining, or some good flashbacks or something.
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May 18, 2015 06:16
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Periodiko posted:I disagree. Wesley's presence was very important because it created a central character to be the face of Wilson Fisk's empire, as well as to give Fisk someone to play off of in scenes. The show absolutely needed a Wesley character. Urich made the investigation credible, they needed a Commissioner Gordon type character, a character that represents wisdom and the establishment in the face of their brashness. I agree with all of this. I thought it was a shame to knock Urick off, but he really did step over the line with that poo poo with Fisk's mom, and the show needed to up the ante for the finale. wormil posted:Claire is there a lot, then disappears, wtf. At times it felt the writers lacked direction. This was a contract issue. Rosario Dawson is a movie star, so they only had her for five episodes. She just signed off on returning for season 2 AND showing up in other Marvel Netflix shows, which is what they wanted initially, but couldn't get. With the exception of D'Onofrio (who does a ton of television anyway), all of the other actors were not big stars, so Marvel didn't have to shell out the 8 billion dollars they have to pay RDJ per hour. Clearly, they liked her, they wanted to do more with her, and they did the best with what they had for season 1.
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May 18, 2015 08:07
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Killing urich for made sense for this story in particular but he is a important character for the marvel universe in general, I really thing they shouldn't have done that.
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May 18, 2015 13:28
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Is Leland definitely dead?
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May 18, 2015 14:02
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Periodiko posted:I disagree. Wesley's presence was very important because it created a central character to be the face of Wilson Fisk's empire, as well as to give Fisk someone to play off of in scenes. The show absolutely needed a Wesley character. Urich made the investigation credible, they needed a Commissioner Gordon type character, a character that represents wisdom and the establishment in the face of their brashness. I agree those characters added something to the show but they were not main characters, not even returning characters. I liked the Wesley character, early on he was important because Fisk was in the shadows but once Fisk stepped into the light Wesley contributed nothing to Fisk's story that wasn't already handled by Vanessa. Wesley's main contribution was influencing Karen, first as her nemesis and later as her victim (for lack of a better word). Urich's sole purpose was as mentor to Karen, that's it. The "investigation" was another dead end and served mainly as a reason for Urich and Karen to spend time together. Secondarily the investigation served to excuse Murdoch's vigilantism. So you had two characters whose purpose was to develop a secondary character yet received as much camera time as the main character. Urich's wife had a lot of screentime, another story that apparently goes nowhere. Mahoney is a returning character and somewhat important yet received very little screentime. The storytelling needed tightening up, someone was given too free a hand with this. It felt like they didn't know what they wanted to do so they tried to do everything. It's not the worst show I've seen by far but needs clearer vision for S2. dj_clawson posted:This was a contract issue. Rosario Dawson is a movie star Sounds more like a casting issue.
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May 18, 2015 14:15
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I don't remember but didn't the karen/urich investigation helped put fisk in prison in the end? Edit: I just remembered, it was all that corrupt cop's confession right? With the "fisk killed his father" being some minor stuff. Yeah I guess that went nowhere program666 fucked around with this message at 14:41 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 14:23
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program666 posted:Edit: I just remembered, it was all that corrupt cop's confession right? With the "fisk killed his father" being some minor stuff. Yeah I guess that went nowhere It showed one of the major moments that made Fisk who he is. Also it may or may not have mellowed out Karen's reckless justice drive. Tricking Urich into meeting the Kingpin's mom lead directly to his death and her killing a dude. Maybe Karen won't be so impulsive next time.
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May 18, 2015 15:23
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It was also to show just how powerful Fisk was. Even with all that evidence all it got them was Ben killed.
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May 18, 2015 15:48
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Actually it may have indirectly lead to Fisks downfall as well. Killing Wesley really kicked the legs out of the measured, rational part of Fisk's actions. Wesley might have figured out what was up with the cop, and Fisk might not have been so quick to kill Leland with Wesley there to calm the situation. Though Leland did just admit to poisoning Vanessa, so the chances are slim.
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May 18, 2015 15:56
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Urich's death lead directly to Wesley's death. If Wesley hadn't died then Fisk wouldn't have been checking his own finances. If he hadn't done that then he wouldn't have confronted Owlsley. If he hadn't done that then the info about the cop being alive wouldn't have gotten out. It is an extremely straight logic chain and Fisk would not have fallen without what happened.
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May 18, 2015 16:34
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ImpAtom posted:Urich's death lead directly to Wesley's death. If Wesley hadn't died then Fisk wouldn't have been checking his own finances. If he hadn't done that then he wouldn't have confronted Owlsley. If he hadn't done that then the info about the cop being alive wouldn't have gotten out. I think you mean that Wesley's death lead directly to Owlsley's death? Wesley died before Ulrich? edit: missed a word Snak fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 16:38
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Snak posted:I you mean that Wesley's death lead directly to Owlsley's death? Wesley died before Ulrich? Right, that is indeed what I meant.
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May 18, 2015 16:42
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Gyges posted:Actually it may have indirectly lead to Fisks downfall as well. Killing Wesley really kicked the legs out of the measured, rational part of Fisk's actions. Wesley might have figured out what was up with the cop, and Fisk might not have been so quick to kill Leland with Wesley there to calm the situation. Though Leland did just admit to poisoning Vanessa, so the chances are slim. I really liked Karen killing Wesley as a result. She's been impotently spinning her wheels the whole show, desperately trying to beat somebody who cannot be beaten. Powerless, she is forced to use violence, which proves more effective than anything else. It's a bit of a cruel lesson--for all the moralizing Matty deals with, Karen delivers a substantial blow to Kingpin by murdering somebody than either of them did trying to take the legal route.
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May 18, 2015 17:09
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wormil posted:Daredevil was one of my favorite comics as a kid but I don't remember much about it now. The tv series spent a lot of time on actors whose stories went nowhere. Wesley and Urich were important to Karen's development but each had a lot of screentime, as much as Murdock/DD, then poof. Leland gets a lot of screentime then falls down an elevator shaft. Claire is there a lot, then disappears, wtf. At times it felt the writers lacked direction. Just because a character dies doesn't mean their story goes nowhere, so I don't really see how that's a commentary on the writers' lack of direction. Wesley and Urich served a purpose, and so did their deaths. In the meantime, they were compelling characters. Seems like plenty of direction.
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May 18, 2015 18:33
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ImpAtom posted:Urich's death lead directly to Wesley's death. If Wesley hadn't died then Fisk wouldn't have been checking his own finances. If he hadn't done that then he wouldn't have confronted Owlsley. If he hadn't done that then the info about the cop being alive wouldn't have gotten out. This chain doesn't exist. It was plain that Fisk already knew or suspected the financial shenanigans. And Wesley died because his character abruptly became careless for plot reasons.
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May 18, 2015 23:57
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Habibi posted:Just because a character dies doesn't mean their story goes nowhere, so I don't really see how that's a commentary on the writers' lack of direction. Wesley and Urich served a purpose, and so did their deaths. In the meantime, they were compelling characters. Seems like plenty of direction. They were fantastic characters but that doesn't mean their contribution to the story was worth the amount of screentime given. I would rather some of that time be given to a main character.
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May 19, 2015 00:02
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wormil posted:This chain doesn't exist. It was plain that Fisk already knew or suspected the financial shenanigans. And Wesley died because his character abruptly became careless for plot reasons. No, Fisk says that since Wesley isn't around he had to go through the financials when he was looking to move his mom out of the country. Which is when he noticed that Leland was loving him.
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May 19, 2015 00:03
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Gyges posted:No, Fisk says that since Wesley isn't around he had to go through the financials when he was looking to move his mom out of the country. Which is when he noticed that Leland was loving him. Wesley didn't handle financials except once, because Fisk already suspected Leland.
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May 19, 2015 00:15
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wormil posted:This chain doesn't exist. It was plain that Fisk already knew or suspected the financial shenanigans. And Wesley died because his character abruptly became careless for plot reasons. wormil posted:Wesley didn't handle financials except once, because Fisk already suspected Leland. Nope. You're straight up wrong about this. Owlsley is the one who usually handled financial matters. Fisk didn't suspect him at all. The money thing was because Fisk wanted to keep it secret because he was arranging to have Vanessa moved out of the country and she had already been attacked once. Once Wesley was dead Fisk did the numbers himself because he had nobody else he could trust. That was how he discovered it. He even accused Owlsley of killing Wesley after Wesley discovered it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:25 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 00:17
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ImpAtom posted:Nope. You're straight up wrong about this. Owsley didn't usually handle financials... He always handled financials. Wesley makes a point to comment on it. And Owsley was right there, readily available, but Fisk didn't want him involved. Ask yourself why. Why do you think they brought up financials at all? The only reason was to show that Fisk no longer trusted Owsley. But ultimately none of that matters to the greater point of whether these character's storylines went anywhere, because they didn't. They are dead, their plotlines ended, and everything they tried to accomplish was for naught. A characters value to the story is not dependant on how interesting they are.
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May 19, 2015 01:06
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wormil posted:. Ask yourself why. Because Vanessa had just been attacked and Fisk trusted literally nobody except Wesley. He didn't distrust Owlsley because he thought he was stealing money. He had no idea who to trust at all and so he went for the only person he unarguably trusted. wormil posted:Why do you think they brought up financials at all? Because Fisk was trying to move his lover secretly into protection, much as he did his mother, and needed money to do so, while being distrustful of everyone because of paranoia. This isn't even "well, you can read it that was." It was literally stated onscreen. wormil posted:But ultimately none of that matters to the greater point of whether these character's storylines went anywhere, because they didn't. They are dead, their plotlines ended, and everything they tried to accomplish was for naught. The fact that you think a character's plotline 'goes nowhere' if they die is remarkably depressing and shortsighted. Every single one of these character's plots went places if just by underlining the thematic core of the plot. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 01:09
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