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Fangz posted:Is doing that stuff fun at all, though? I mean all you are setting up is the potential for there to be an exciting crime solving scene, then suddenly OH NO YOU NEED TO POOP, OH NO YOU DIED BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T POOP. Dying because you didn't poop would be a pretty awesome game mechanic, just add in a GTA style fade to black then WASTED in red text.
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May 24, 2015 11:55
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Fangz posted:Is doing that stuff fun at all, though? I mean all you are setting up is the potential for there to be an exciting crime solving scene, then suddenly OH NO YOU NEED TO POOP, OH NO YOU DIED BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T POOP. It isn't, which is why I originally canned it. If there's an economy to make daily tasks honestly enjoyable and I've totally missed it, that's awesome, but I'm pretty sure handwaving away the fact that, like Jack Bauer, your character never eats or poops is probably the best way. Mercury_Storm posted:Dying because you didn't poop would be a pretty awesome game mechanic, just add in a GTA style fade to black then WASTED in red text. Fun story- when I was first building the AI, I made a silly mistake that resulted in every NPC beelining for a bathroom and refusing to ever leave. Hel posted:The simplest way is just make them give you bonuses, eating gives minor health regen, drinking temporarily gives more Max stamina, that kind of thing. I'd suggest avoiding penalties for neglecting your needs and just sticking to giving bonuses to fulfilling them, because otherwise it just feels like busywork you need to do before you can play the game, instead of something you can do to increase your performance. I think that's a good idea... a lot of my game comes down to "Action RPG that has Adventure game tropes," and I like the idea of making lots of interactive environment (snacks/naps/newspaper lying on your desk), but I don't want it to all be pretty window dressing that doesn't actually do anything.
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May 24, 2015 11:59
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Do it Carmen Sandiego style, at a certain time each day it skips a bunch of hours for sleep etc.
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May 24, 2015 12:17
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I think maybe it's better to think about why you want to implement those things and what kind of effect it would have on the player. If it's to create a more immersive experience, perhaps there are other, better ways of achieving that. When I think about games that I personally find immersive none of them had a huge amount of interactive items but the few things it did have really helped make the world 'real' to me. Like, say, the audio logs in System Shock 2. Ofcourse I'm not a big fan of adventure games in general so I'm sure you'd think of different examples.
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May 24, 2015 12:24
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RPS linked to this blog about game UIs, which seemed very interesting. https://anykeytostart.wordpress.com
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May 24, 2015 13:04
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chiefnewo posted:Do it Carmen Sandiego style, at a certain time each day it skips a bunch of hours for sleep etc. Or Tail of the Sun where you just fall asleep wherever you are when you get tired enough even if it means getting eaten or falling off a mountain. StickFigs posted:I'm trying to find a solution for moving transforms along a spline in Unity 5. So far I have found Hermite Spline Controller which is free but seems outdated and unsupported. On the other hand I saw that it can be done with iTween which I have heard great things about anyways. GoKit might be able to do what you want but for something more robust I'd look at Camera Path Animator in the asset store. It seems to be exactly what you want and is well reviewed.
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May 24, 2015 13:16
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Omi no Kami posted:So this is a weird consideration, but is there any way to incentivize daily activities without sims-style bars? I'm trying to go for zero or near-zero UI, and balancing bars isn't fun, but I really don't like that without the life sim component your character has no motivation to eat, use the bathroom, shower, change his clothes, or really do anything that flesh and blood humans do- he's basically robocop at this point, spending all his waking hours chasing the guilty. In Harvest Moon you have a limited number of actions you can use per day, but the number itself isn't actually displayed. Instead you get tipped off when you hit certain breakpoints by special animations - when you've used half your character will pull out their lunch and eat it, when you've used 75% or so they'll eat their dinner, and when you're down to the last few they'll start to sweat and wipe their brow before doing the action (when you run out entirely, they'll do this animation but then NOT do the action). Once you run out you need to sleep to recharge them. So it just kind of works eating/sleeping naturally into your cycle of activity rather than having them be separate things you go out of your way to get done.
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May 24, 2015 13:44
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I like such micromanagement and it can be immersive. But from my general experience, people either like such mechanics or they really do not. It really is one of those love/hate things. You could make it optional (See for example, "realistic mode" in New Vegas) if it is worth the effort to make a system many people might not even use is of course the question. Another way would be to implement it in a way where it gives slight advantages if the actions are done but also can be completely ignored. From what I know of this game, a "oh you forgot to eat an hamburger, so RIP" would not work really well with it I think.
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May 24, 2015 15:11
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I am one of those people who despises that kind of daily busywork and obligation with the burning passion of a thousand suns, because it's just grinding with time limits and deadlines that impinges on what you actually want to do at that time. Keep the extra busywork if you like, but make it optional - standard grinding and side quests, basically, except you're eating burgers instead of fighting monsters.
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May 24, 2015 15:29
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Yodzilla posted:GoKit might be able to do what you want but for something more robust I'd look at Camera Path Animator in the asset store. It seems to be exactly what you want and is well reviewed. I was looking at Camera Path Animator earlier but I was afraid it would be a little more than I want. I'll have a look at GoKit though. I wish there was a demo or trial system on the asset store. How does the return policy work?
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May 24, 2015 16:13
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Deadly Premonition really made all that 'eating, drinking, sleeping, socializing etc' really interesting imho. Rather than specifically having to do these things to not die, they are presented as opportunities to encounter some specific people or learn about their backgrounds and what not. Of course, the detective not washing and shaving himself leads to hilarious comments from everyone else in the game. Edit; I even think you can agree to meet someone at a restaurant or something at a specific time, but instead of actually going to the meet, you rummage and pillage their apartment. Then afterward they hate your guts for being untrustworthy as gently caress. heard u like girls fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 16:13
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Needs Chat: You could also make it common and compatible with other actions, like letting the player drink coffee while interviewing a witness, napping in the car when early for meeting and stuff like that. I love it when open world games let's you buy stuff and let you eat it while just walking around and letting you slow down and just feel out the city instead of rushing from objective to objective at top speed. It also gives you something to do for those small waits that show up all the time, instead of just standing on the platform for 45 seconds waiting for the train to arrive , you go buy something from a vending machine it an easy way to let the player do something instead of just standing still.
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May 24, 2015 17:03
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StickFigs posted:I was looking at Camera Path Animator earlier but I was afraid it would be a little more than I want. I'll have a look at GoKit though. Reach out to the creator and ask about a return policy. They don't make it easy because people already steal plugins and scam asset store creators all the goddamn time. Also it's only $35, for what you're try to do it sounds perfect.
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May 24, 2015 17:42
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The Cheshire Cat posted:In Harvest Moon you have a limited number of actions you can use per day, but the number itself isn't actually displayed. Instead you get tipped off when you hit certain breakpoints by special animations - when you've used half your character will pull out their lunch and eat it, when you've used 75% or so they'll eat their dinner, and when you're down to the last few they'll start to sweat and wipe their brow before doing the action (when you run out entirely, they'll do this animation but then NOT do the action). Once you run out you need to sleep to recharge them. So it just kind of works eating/sleeping naturally into your cycle of activity rather than having them be separate things you go out of your way to get done. That might be the smartest way to do it; my game does have a harvest-moon style day/night cycle, it's somewhat like shemue in that the game lasts a fixed number of days, and your ostensible goal is to keep the neighborhood from falling completely apart before then. The only purpose behind trying to militate lots of interactables was for narrative immersion ("Oh look, a person drinking coffee- that's something humans do"), and like Ekster said I'm probably better off finding alternative ways of doing that which don't interfere with the game loop as much.
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May 24, 2015 17:51
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While I love the idea of 'borrowing' time by not sleeping/eating/showering, I also can't think of a good way to communicate to the player that they're running out of stamina/focus/energy/deodorant without sims-style meters or a LOT of extra animation work... unless... does your character keep a notebook that you can read? Maybe these notes can indicate that they're not performing their best and reward life maintenance. Sunday, May 24th: 18:00 pm I don't remember when I ate last. Was it yesterday? Interviewed <witness>. I think I dozed off during some of the answers. <witness> said X about Y. <witness> said X about Z. <witness> said X about Q. Asked about Q's connection to Y. <witness> said I stank and asked to leave. Vs. well-fed well-groomed well-rested notebook: Sunday, May 24th: 18:00 pm Interviewed <witness>. <witness> said X about Y. <witness> said X about Z. <witness> said X about Q. Asked about Q's connection to Y. Got information about <other witness>. <witness> said X about U. Seems U and Z might be related somehow? <witness> gave contact information and is willing to answer follow up questions. I think ultimately it does kind of infringe on the fun of the game if you're making players do 'busy work' to get the most out of the game, but maybe being smart about maximizing your time could wind up being useful. Start up each day with a day planner: it's got breakfast, lunch, dinner, rec time, and sleep listed, but you can move it around as you like. Skip breakfast to study a crime scene, schedule lunch with a co-worker, order take-out for dinner, rec time becomes buttering up a bartender for later, push sleep back an hour to talk to a witness knowing that you'll be more sluggish the next morning. I dunno. This does feel like the sort of thing that is more likely to distract from the game than to enhance it, but on the other hand it seems intriguing to me as well.
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May 24, 2015 23:25
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Another option would be to condense it all into 'Fatigue', everything from sleeping to eating to showering to peeing just adds buffs and debuffs to fatigue. If you drink a coffee, it makes you less fatigued now and more fatigued later. If you eat a big meal it makes you more fatigued now and less fatigued later. Getting a good night's sleep makes you less fatigued but it takes all night. Taking a shower makes you feel less fatigued but takes time. Going to the bathroom could like.. slightly decrease your pending debuffs? You drank that coffee and now you're peeing it out so you won't be as tired later? That way it's all abstracted down into stacked, timed buffs and debuffs to a single stat that can be displayed in however much detail as you want, and players who choose to optimize can pee six times a day and shower every morning, and players who just want to play the game will just sleep every night and maybe have a coffee if they need an all-nighter. hailthefish fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 23:31
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If you are going for a fatigue system, I think the most important thing is to have becoming fatigued be a choice. As opposed to constantly making the same choice to avoid becoming fatigued. I think the former is much more interesting. In the latter, the player is just going to expend continuous effort to avoid ever seeing whatever fatigue mechanic you might implement. This would be both tedious and difficult to balance, and breaks immersion because people do not ordinarily forget to sleep. Whereas the 'okay, I am in a hurry, DARE I PULL AN ALLNIGHTER', or the 'I got a phone call at 4am, do I go to the office knowing it will ruin the rest of the day?' creates more the decisions and dilemmas you are after and lays things out for the player without being tedious.
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May 24, 2015 23:53
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Fangz posted:If you are going for a fatigue system, I think the most important thing is to have becoming fatigued be a choice. As opposed to constantly making the same choice to avoid becoming fatigued. That is genius.
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May 25, 2015 00:03
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That's a great idea- it's something I've toyed with, for a while I had an "Effort key" whose sole purpose was making you more effective at whatever you were doing at the expense of stamina burn- Effort + walk = run, Effort + punch = special attack, Effort + interrogate = better chance of getting answers, and so forth. What it stills comes down to, though, is that I don't want watching a gauge to become a primary gameplay mechanic- the ticking click element adds 90% of the feel of urgency that a complicated stamina system would, without complicating the player's behavior. While we're discussing it, I'll share another idea I had that, while I'll almost certainly not use it, sounded fun: I briefly considered making skill learning work like EVE online, where you select a queue of skills, and the game tells you "Enhanced interrogation will take 72 game-hours to learn. Nightstick handling III will take 96 hours,". The idea was that you had lots of options to enhance the effectiveness of what you were doing right now (drinking coffee, expending effort), but everything that improved short-term effectiveness drained your Wakefulness gauge, which determined how alert you were. Since the idea of the skill queue is that this was stuff you were teaching yourself by cramming study into in the small free moments you had, Wakefulness determined how long skills took to train, so Blackjack Handling I would take 12 hours to train at full Wakefulness, and 48 hours to train at 0 Wakefulness." I'm hesitant to do this now, both because I'm not 100% convinced I want a skill system, and because it turned a lot of the game into keeping an eye on gauges to ensure optimal growth. Ideally I'm looking for more of a shadow of mordor sandbox feel: you're trapped in a reasonably small area, you know everyone and everything in it, and you spend your game time running around interacting with the sandbox in ways that transparently change the world around you. That eventually comes around full circle, though, and returns to "How come Jack Bauer never poops". I think Fangz's system is probably the very smartest way I've heard to do this- make fatigue the equivalent of player MP, something that's drained by choice, and force the player to pass out where he is and wake up with full MP some hours later. I do want to retain some simple tiredness-related efficacy, so players have motivation to plan for and time their sleep- something like an experience or money bonus at full wakefulness that slowly decreases as you run out of energy, until eventually you're getting significantly fewer bonuses for succeeding than you could've otherwise. I do also want to note, I think one of the keys to making a fun survival/life simulation stat system is putting it in slow motion like in the STALKER games: there, your hunger and such decreased so slowly that you had days to fill them, and your thinking became long-term and low-stress: "I hear gunfire in the distance, I have a good enough gun to take out whoever it is, but that will cost n bullets and I have lots of food, so I'd better just avoid it".
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May 25, 2015 00:39
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Omi no Kami posted:I think that's a good idea... a lot of my game comes down to "Action RPG that has Adventure game tropes," and I like the idea of making lots of interactive environment (snacks/naps/newspaper lying on your desk), but I don't want it to all be pretty window dressing that doesn't actually do anything. I second the buffs thing - the difference between penalties and buffs is pretty much just presentation, depending on how the game is balanced. If you want people to eat and drink to solve crimes because being healthy makes you a better detective and feel empowered, you balance the game so that at full buffs you're at 100% and balance the game so that being at the unbuffed state sets you at 50%. Conversely, if you want the player to feel like they're scrapping for survival, you balance the game around being at "full of food" you're at 100% and when you're hungry you're at 50%. By making it a buff or debuff you change the emotional connection but do not actually affect the way your game functions - note they're both using the same functionality but just different language in the examples I just provided.
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May 25, 2015 01:43
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I've been toying with the idea of a web-based PC Music rhythm game for the past few weeks, and finally started to execute on it this week by building a chart editor: http://quick.as/qq1c7jrm You can't tell from this garbage screencast, but it actually runs at 60fps, which wasn't easy. The editor's web-based and built on React (rendering mainly SVGs). I think the actual playback engine will be a custom-built canvas thing, depending on what kind of visual effects I end up adding, but just using SVGs/DOM events feels surprisingly decent (though the input timing is really imprecise/gets off sync quite easily, gotta figure that out). Building tools is super fun and I wish it hadn't scared me off some previous ideas I've had. Though in this case, I'm essentially just cloning Stepmania's editor, so there's not a lot of design to worry about.
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May 25, 2015 04:19
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I'm gonna play it
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May 25, 2015 05:20
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Sigma-X posted:I second the buffs thing - the difference between penalties and buffs is pretty much just presentation, depending on how the game is balanced. If you want people to eat and drink to solve crimes because being healthy makes you a better detective and feel empowered, you balance the game so that at full buffs you're at 100% and balance the game so that being at the unbuffed state sets you at 50%. Conversely, if you want the player to feel like they're scrapping for survival, you balance the game around being at "full of food" you're at 100% and when you're hungry you're at 50%. By making it a buff or debuff you change the emotional connection but do not actually affect the way your game functions - note they're both using the same functionality but just different language in the examples I just provided. That is really smart, I never even considered that.
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May 25, 2015 06:11
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Or you could just do what every other narrative does and imply it's being done in-between the interesting bits, because, y'know, if it wasn't tedious bullshit it would actually be one of the interesting bits.
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May 25, 2015 08:15
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You could go full persona style and make who you speak with over lunch an importance decision. ...And then you have to decide between the mega meat platter and the veggie burgers, each meal choice making or breaking relationships with undercover vegans. Or whatever. You can make a meal important and/or interesting, at the very least as a way to interview people more personally by buying them a meal or something.
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May 25, 2015 08:35
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Megazver posted:Or you could just do what every other narrative does and imply it's being done in-between the interesting bits, because, y'know, if it wasn't tedious bullshit it would actually be one of the interesting bits. I think this is about what I'm going to do: the clock + no energy = sleep thing provides an interesting but extremely easy to understand mechanic that reinforces the idea of passing time, unless something massive changes I'm going to finish the prototype with no other acknowledgement of time passing whatsoever, and see how it plays- it's possible that nobody will even notice the disparity.
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May 25, 2015 09:47
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Like every third scene of law and order started with Lennie Brisco goin "KEEP THE CHANGE, PAL" in front of a hot dog cart so it's not like there isn't a precedent for hanging your exposition dumps on something like that.
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May 25, 2015 13:32
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Sigma-X posted:I second the buffs thing - the difference between penalties and buffs is pretty much just presentation, depending on how the game is balanced. If you want people to eat and drink to solve crimes because being healthy makes you a better detective and feel empowered, you balance the game so that at full buffs you're at 100% and balance the game so that being at the unbuffed state sets you at 50%. Conversely, if you want the player to feel like they're scrapping for survival, you balance the game around being at "full of food" you're at 100% and when you're hungry you're at 50%. By making it a buff or debuff you change the emotional connection but do not actually affect the way your game functions - note they're both using the same functionality but just different language in the examples I just provided. On a similar note, a lot of story can be told through buffs and debuffs that don't change anything. This is from an Extra Credits video which I can't remember, but he mentioned at one point that a game starring Norse mythological figures gave Odin the debuff 'One-eyed,' which was permanent and impossible to heal and cut his accuracy slightly. This was a top-down strategy game that didn't have much space for storytelling, though, so it was basically that you'd click on the character and mouse over their buffs and see that one. Incidentally, Odin would be game-breakingly accurate without that debuff, because that's how you balance this sort of thing. World of Warcraft had a thing during testing where they would cut player XP gain if they didn't rest. And players HATED it. So, they reduced all XP gain to that level, then gave players a 'buff' for resting that topped it back up to the original rate. And players LOVED it. The numbers were exactly the same on the player end, but getting a boost for good behaviour feels better than getting a penalty for bad behaviour. If you play Watch Dogs, you'll see this in action- one XP bar fills for doing awesome stuff, the other starts out topped up and gets cut every time you gently caress up. Personally, I would recommend making food, drink, and sleep into long-term buffs, or recovery items. Players will put in a lot of effort to boost their power level, and they will go massively out of their way to avoid power loss- but while they will enjoy the first one, they will resent the second one and see it as an obligation, even if the two tasks are numerically identical.
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May 25, 2015 16:14
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So you would recommend making sleep an "optional" buff and playtesting to see if greed wins out, instead of making it a hard limit? I like that a lot... I was originally thinking back to Bully, which wanted you asleep in bed somewhere between 1-3am, and they started to queue you to your fatigue with tired eye-blinky black filters across the screen. It led to some truely terrifying mad sprints ("Will I manage to finish this mission/exploration/whatever before he passes out and wakes up all the way back at school?"), but in retrospect I don't think it was very good design; it basically forced the player to return to a specific location every day of game-time for no real reason.
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May 25, 2015 17:25
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Welp we done finished our entry for the Public Domain Jam! Come and play it y'all! And appreciate this splash screen art that took me a good night's sleep to create. Last time I try to emulate a classic movie poster. Play the cool rad tubular game here: http://deliinteractive.itch.io/lair-of-the-morlocks Also, on topic of creating life systems, I'd definitely agree with the optional buff system. A lot of tv show/movie detectives rarely seem to get sleep anyway. Because they're hardcore case workers, so I imagine sleep is only a benefit if they can get it rather than a strike against them if they don't. Thinking of True Detective that was most certainly the case with the obsessive nihilist, so it's certainly staying true to the genre to make sleeping/eating fairly optional but working as benefits if you can bring yourself to do em.
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May 25, 2015 20:27
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Bert of the Forest posted:Welp we done finished our entry for the Public Domain Jam! Come and play it y'all! And appreciate this splash screen art that took me a good night's sleep to create. Last time I try to emulate a classic movie poster. Fun! 
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May 25, 2015 23:07
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Ack, my time machine broke reality! That was really fun though, thanks for sharing it 
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May 26, 2015 00:27
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Omi no Kami posted:Ack, my time machine broke reality! The only other time I've seen this happen was with our programmer playtesting the game online while Unity was open. If you had Unity open as well, maybe that has something to do with it? That's my best guess given that I and everyone else who has played the game didn't seem to come across this. Sorry aboot that! Glad to hear you and Joe Man liked it though!
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May 26, 2015 04:58
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I think you're right, I managed to duplicate the issue- you get nullreferences as long as the editor's open, but closing the editor makes them stop.
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May 26, 2015 06:07
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I'm pretty slow at game dev so I decided to take part in the 1 hour game jam last weekend to perhaps train myself to get quicker. Somehow I managed to pull it off and people even liked my entry - the awfully titled, "Tapgrid", so I thought I'd spend the weekend polishing it up a bit. Yes, I'm looking for feedback Polished version: http://sean-noonan.com/development/dev_noonantap/1_5/ 1 hour original: http://sean-noonan.com/games/tapgrid_1hrjam/ Hope you enjoy it, and like I said, feedback would be great!
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May 26, 2015 08:43
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Bert of the Forest posted:Welp we done finished our entry for the Public Domain Jam! Come and play it y'all! And appreciate this splash screen art that took me a good night's sleep to create. Last time I try to emulate a classic movie poster. Noice! The one thing that bothered me throughout was I kept getting the impression my dude was squatting all the time.
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May 26, 2015 08:48
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Aneurexorcyst posted:I'm pretty slow at game dev so I decided to take part in the 1 hour game jam last weekend to perhaps train myself to get quicker. Somehow I managed to pull it off and people even liked my entry - the awfully titled, "Tapgrid", so I thought I'd spend the weekend polishing it up a bit. Yes, I'm looking for feedback The polished version feels really cool The gameplay works and you pulled it off well. There's a lag that happens when you get a point each time (? making the particles) that ruins it a little though.
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May 26, 2015 11:51
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Aneurexorcyst posted:I'm pretty slow at game dev so I decided to take part in the 1 hour game jam last weekend to perhaps train myself to get quicker. Somehow I managed to pull it off and people even liked my entry - the awfully titled, "Tapgrid", so I thought I'd spend the weekend polishing it up a bit. Yes, I'm looking for feedback This is good! Optimise it a bit so that it'll work on phones (runs a bit slow right now, and well... press R to restart???), and it seems like the sort of thing that could be decently popular and soul-crushingly addictive. Also be sure to add a high score feature. In terms of difficulty scaling, seems like squares towards the bottom of the screen are easier to get. This might be one way to ramp up the difficulty more smoothly, if you start by biasing generation towards the bottom and then spread out to the full area. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:18 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 12:07
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Fangz posted:Optimise it a bit so that it'll work on phones (runs a bit slow right now, and well... press R to restart???), and it seems like the sort of thing that could be decently popular and soul-crushingly addictive. Yup, this has a Flappy Bird-like quality and potential!
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May 26, 2015 12:16
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Tann posted:The polished version feels really cool The gameplay works and you pulled it off well. There's a lag that happens when you get a point each time (? making the particles) that ruins it a little though. It's actually an intentional small freeze that's meant to make hitting each of the chip/pip/squares feel more impactful - maybe it isn't achieving what I want, especially if you thought it was a bug  Fangz posted:This is good! Optimise it a bit so that it'll work on phones (runs a bit slow right now, and well... press R to restart???), and it seems like the sort of thing that could be decently popular and soul-crushingly addictive. A high score feature will be next. I was thinking about how to do the UI - might have to shift the current score to the top left and have high score as top right, though I think that won't look as good as the centre number. In regards to difficulty curve, at the moment the amount of time a pip stays on screen gets lower the higher your score gets (to a minimum of shrinking as soon as it appears) and there's the moving pips every 10 you score. The pip placement currently is based on player position, if you're in the lower half of the screen when you score, the next will be in the upper part of the screen - if what you say is true, then this could technically be abused... I'll give it some thought. Thanks for the feedback so far, folks
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May 26, 2015 12:44
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