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Surprisingly Dope posted:True I suppose but they make it work because I still know many people that haven't read the books and watch it casually. Otherwise it wouldn't be as successful and widespread as it is. In general, most people seem to be enjoying themselves with this adaptation and like it a lot.
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May 25, 2015 22:32
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Cat Sidhe posted:What if we hate all of it? Then I hate you
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May 25, 2015 22:33
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I think I have some minor quibbles about pacing and lore but feel they are nitpicks compared to how the adaptation handles the important bits.
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May 25, 2015 22:37
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Here is a person who's writing impressions every episode and has been following along well enough to understand the plot and Shirou's conflict without any real experience in the Fate series.
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May 25, 2015 22:42
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Like there's issues with this adaptation, mostly some from a pacing perspective. That being said, this episode pretty much confirmed to me that ufoTable were the right guys to do this, because they did a fantastic job of handling Shiro and Archer's clash of ideals. The entire mental battle Shiro had with himself and even him trying to stop himself from entering hell and later Archer doing it to him was a pretty great way to show his character contrasting with Archer's in reasonable ways. I don't know why more people don't like this episode, maybe because UBW was activated for no reason other than thematics or maybe because it's being split into two parts or Avalon is portrayed as a power when that's not what it is at all, but it was a pretty loving stellar episode and it's a million things that bring it together. Shiro pulling out that loving sword also kind of calls back to the lovely deen anime and that's going to be my favorite thing from this anime until we get to the grand finale, which is my favorite thing in the series.
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May 25, 2015 22:56
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andipossess posted:Here is a person who's writing impressions every episode and has been following along well enough to understand the plot and Shirou's conflict without any real experience in the Fate series. Just read through this and it's so refreshing.
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May 25, 2015 23:06
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Yeah, I have to say his theorizing about Archer's identity, interspersed with things we know from zero that are very far from right (Saber being Kotomine's Servant, for example), was really interesting to read. All his theories turned out to be wrong, but reading the impressions of someone who clearly has very little familiarity with the series is quite refreshing.
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May 25, 2015 23:18
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andipossess posted:Here is a person who's writing impressions every episode and has been following along well enough to understand the plot and Shirou's conflict without any real experience in the Fate series. Compendium posted:Just read through this and it's so refreshing. Sylphid posted:Yeah, I have to say his theorizing about Archer's identity, interspersed with things we know from zero that are very far from right (Saber being Kotomine's Servant, for example), was really interesting to read. All his theories turned out to be wrong, but reading the impressions of someone who clearly has very little familiarity with the series is quite refreshing. Yeah, his reviews are great, I've been following them for a couple of weeks even since I was linked to them on another board. His speculation on the identity of Archer the night before the episode that confirmed his identity was absolutely wrong, but great in the way it was wrong. He reads a lot into the story and has some pretty good insights when thinking about what the show implies, even if he is unfamiliar with any other part of Fate, Zero included. His reviews have been compared very favorably over the ANN ones mentioned in the Type-Moon thread, and it's well deserved. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 23:35
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Please tell me this guy gets paid to write reviews.
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May 25, 2015 23:38
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quote:I wonder if in Shirou’s mind, he is compensating for surviving the fire when his family didn’t by helping others as much as he can, sort of like a karmic mortgage that he has to pay off. this is from episode 2. yeah this dude has really good insight into characters
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May 25, 2015 23:44
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Twiddy posted:Please tell me this guy gets paid to write reviews. I don't believe so, he's just doing it for fun as far as I'm aware.
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May 26, 2015 00:01
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Add in another thank you for bringing that fellow up, I've especially been digging his speculations about Kiritsugu and Kotomine. Not to mention how refreshing it is to read a positive outlook from an outside perspective for once, considering previous discussions!
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May 26, 2015 00:44
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Beef Waifu posted:Like there's issues with this adaptation, mostly some from a pacing perspective. That being said, this episode pretty much confirmed to me that ufoTable were the right guys to do this, because they did a fantastic job of handling Shiro and Archer's clash of ideals. The entire mental battle Shiro had with himself and even him trying to stop himself from entering hell and later Archer doing it to him was a pretty great way to show his character contrasting with Archer's in reasonable ways. I don't know why more people don't like this episode, maybe because UBW was activated for no reason other than thematics or maybe because it's being split into two parts or Avalon is portrayed as a power when that's not what it is at all, but it was a pretty loving stellar episode and it's a million things that bring it together. My problem is a fundamental lack of engagement. Shirou and Archer's dispute seems so abstract and divorced from reality that it's hard to make the audience care about it, which is a fixable problem in fiction, but they've done too much (repetitive, waffly) telling and not enough showing to really sell us on it and its meaning and consequences within the story. Oh, and Archer left Rin to get raped and/or murdered in order to resolve his gigantic case of esprit de l'escalier, and that's not being acknowledged by the story, which is kind of weird and offputting. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 01:08 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 01:04
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I have no knowledge of the Fate series other than Zero and I think it's pretty good. I find the show communicates what it is trying to do well enough. While there are a few issues with the pacing I still think the positives of the series override the negatives. I give it an 8/10 so far.
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May 26, 2015 01:14
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Darth Walrus posted:My problem is a fundamental lack of engagement. Shirou and Archer's dispute seems so abstract and divorced from reality that it's hard to make the audience care about it, which is a fixable problem in fiction, but they've done too much (repetitive, waffly) telling and not enough showing to really sell us on it and its meaning and consequences within the story. Oh, and Archer left Rin to get raped and/or murdered in order to resolve his gigantic case of esprit de l'escalier, and that's not being acknowledged by the story, which is kind of weird and offputting. He expected Rin to use a Command Seal to summon Saber, probably.
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May 26, 2015 01:15
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ZoninSilver posted:Add in another thank you for bringing that fellow up, I've especially been digging his speculations about Kiritsugu and Kotomine. Not to mention how refreshing it is to read a positive outlook from an outside perspective for once, considering previous discussions! I mean a good way of looking at it is that the last thread seemed to have about this reaction, but overall reviews are still high and even in the Goon best of the year thread UBW got enough votes to get into the top 10 even though most people were putting it in their honorable mentions because it wasn't done. Entirely a consequence of "people with the strongest opinions" being the loudest and when something is seen as generally good, the strongest opinions are always the people disliking it. Darth Walrus posted:My problem is a fundamental lack of engagement. Shirou and Archer's dispute seems so abstract and divorced from reality that it's hard to make the audience care about it, which is a fixable problem in fiction, but they've done too much (repetitive, waffly) telling and not enough showing to really sell us on it and its meaning and consequences within the story. Oh, and Archer left Rin to get raped and/or murdered in order to resolve his gigantic case of esprit de l'escalier, and that's not being acknowledged by the story, which is kind of weird and offputting. I mean, it's kind of like the Avalon thing. No one could bring it up as an important strategy and poo poo like in F/Z because no one knew that Avalon got put into Shirou except Kiritsugu, and he's dead. It probably would have helped if F/Z did its job as an adaptation of a prequel story and properly adapted the part where we know exactly why Shirou survived or something. Also, I'm kind curious of what exact kind of showing you want. They've done a good job of using visual story telling to get across Archer's back story and how lovely it kind of is. They could have been more blatant by having a complete flashback to Archer's past like in the F/Z anime, but I mean they did kind of do that 2 episodes ago. Maybe they could have been more specific about it but man I am way too academic and I like my subtlety and vague notions. EDIT EDIT: Speaking of... Beef Waifu posted:Like there's issues with this adaptation, mostly some from a pacing perspective. That being said, this episode pretty much confirmed to me that ufoTable were the right guys to do this, because they did a fantastic job of handling Shiro and Archer's clash of ideals. The entire mental battle Shiro had with himself and even him trying to stop himself from entering hell and later Archer doing it to him was a pretty great way to show his character contrasting with Archer's in reasonable ways. I don't know why more people don't like this episode, maybe because UBW was activated for no reason other than thematics or maybe because it's being split into two parts or Avalon is portrayed as a power when that's not what it is at all, but it was a pretty loving stellar episode and it's a million things that bring it together. Basically, the more I get time to absorb what this show actually did within the context of the story itself and not what I might have expected, I'm coming more around to your point that this is a good episode that got the point across. Well, unless you're insane and think this story is about Alpha and Beta males. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 01:38 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 01:22
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Twiddy posted:Basically, there's no logical or organic way for Shirou and Saber to go "wow Archer you're a massive shitheel for leaving Rin with a wannabe rapist," Maybe not even "wannabe", since there was that incident with the female student going missing for a couple days, with no memory of it, Shinji being the last person anyone saw her with, and his hosed up comments about her when she was talked about in class. Even SHIROU got pissed at him over what he said. 
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May 26, 2015 01:52
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If it makes you feel any better, Rider just drained her blood.
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May 26, 2015 01:53
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Twiddy posted:There's a lot of it, even some here. Just not here and some forums. Talking to real people helps a lot. Rin knew, Archer knew, and the audience knows about the Shinji thing. I'd at least expect Rin to be crankier about that rather than going 'welp, nothing for me to do but support my boyfriend's ideals', and it severely undercuts the sympathetic framing Archer gets in his big fight with his younger self (it's a lot tougher to sell 'both sides have valid points' if one side has sold someone who was very likely once the love of his life to loving Shinji and Gilgamesh). Either show Archer trying to look out a little more for Rin's safety (like, say, warning Saber of exactly how much trouble her master's in), or portray him as more villainous and less noble but misguided, showing the kind of monster Shirou's warped self-image turned him into. You can't have it both ways. Yes, we got a lot of scenes from Archer's past, but they were missing the how, why, and anything that might build emotional resonance. OK, you were sentenced to death because your ideals led you to be betrayed. How'd that happen? What particular flaw in your idealism killed you? You were revived as a Counter Guardian and turned into the world's automated defence mechanism - what did that involve other than brief flashes of dead Africans? There was no serious effort to make us feel what Archer felt, just brief snapshots from his life and him telling us how he felt about them. I realise that Urobuchi comparisons are getting tired, but I can't help but remember the Madoka flashback episode where we found out what Homura's deal was, which seemed like a better (and slightly faster) articulation in every way of a loosely similar situation to Archer's.
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May 26, 2015 01:54
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Schubalts posted:Maybe not even "wannabe", since there was that incident with the female student going missing for a couple days, with no memory of it, Shinji being the last person anyone saw her with, and his hosed up comments about her when she was talked about in class. Even SHIROU got pissed at him over what he said. Also what Endorph said, what you thought happened didn't happen. EDIT: More specifically, let's just stick with "Shinji is a really creepy poo poo and Archer isn't really virtuous for leaving Rin with him." EDIT EDIT" Darth Walrus posted:Rin knew, Archer knew, and the audience knows about the Shinji thing. I'd at least expect Rin to be crankier about that rather than going 'welp, nothing for me to do but support my boyfriend's ideals', and it severely undercuts the sympathetic framing Archer gets in his big fight with his younger self (it's a lot tougher to sell 'both sides have valid points' if one side has sold someone who was very likely once the love of his life to loving Shinji and Gilgamesh). Either show Archer trying to look out a little more for Rin's safety (like, say, warning Saber of exactly how much trouble her master's in), or portray him as more villainous and less noble but misguided, showing the kind of monster Shirou's warped self-image turned him into. You can't have it both ways. This is why the line is good, and why the two different words (correct and right) are great. The two different words mean that he's talking about two entirely different things, which should make one question "what is Shirou saying he's correct about and what is Shirou saying that he isn't right about," knowing that they're two entirely different areas (for example, one might be logic and another morality). Twiddy fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 01:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Rin knew, Archer knew, and the audience knows about the Shinji thing. I'd at least expect Rin to be crankier about that rather than going 'welp, nothing for me to do but support my boyfriend's ideals', and it severely undercuts the sympathetic framing Archer gets in his big fight with his younger self (it's a lot tougher to sell 'both sides have valid points' if one side has sold someone who was very likely once the love of his life to loving Shinji and Gilgamesh). Either show Archer trying to look out a little more for Rin's safety (like, say, warning Saber of exactly how much trouble her master's in), or portray him as more villainous and less noble but misguided, showing the kind of monster Shirou's warped self-image turned him into. You can't have it both ways. Again, Archer probably was honestly expecting Rin to use a Command Seal. Remember he has no certainty that Saber isn't going to try to meddle, by leaving Rin with Shinji it's probably she summons Saber and takes care of that. Also I think getting mad about being left with Shinji comes back to whole "dignifying him by acknowledging his existence", getting angry over it would probably in some indirectly way meant thinking "Oh look Shinji's a threat." Which is on par with saying "Fighter is a genius."
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May 26, 2015 02:51
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Did Archer actually know Shinji was that much of a bastard? Shirou only realizes it in like 1.5 of the routes. It's entirely possible Archer's knowledge of Shinji being a bastard stopped at 'hit Sakura once.' Which, yeah, is a loving horrendous thing to do, but if the worst Shinji did was kick Rin around we wouldn't be having this conversation. As for Gil, I doubt he even cares that Rin is there.
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May 26, 2015 02:56
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Endorph posted:As for Gil, I doubt he even cares that Rin is there. "Rin? Why does that meaningless insect even have a name?"
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May 26, 2015 02:58
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If you asked Gil who was in that building, he'd probably say himself and two others. Rin and Shinji don't even register. Then he would kill you for daring to ask him about people other than himself, but whatever.
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May 26, 2015 03:07
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EDIT: People said words already.
Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 03:10 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 03:08
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Gilgamesh: "There was me, some loser's daughter, some loser's son, and two assholes stealing my stuff."
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May 26, 2015 03:09
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"there was me and enkidu *lovingly cradles chains in hands, holds them to cheek*"
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May 26, 2015 03:10
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Two and a half archers
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May 26, 2015 03:11
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Endorph posted:Did Archer actually know Shinji was that much of a bastard? Shirou only realizes it in like 1.5 of the routes. It's entirely possible Archer's knowledge of Shinji being a bastard stopped at 'hit Sakura once.' Speaking of which, where did Sakura go? Does she have no role in this route?
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May 26, 2015 03:18
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There Bias Two posted:Speaking of which, where did Sakura go? Does she have no role in this route? Nope. She's purely background.
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May 26, 2015 03:23
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There Bias Two posted:Speaking of which, where did Sakura go? Does she have no role in this route? She's still at the Matou's house. As far as I remember, she has no role whatsoever from the point the show is at to the end. She's pretty non-existent in Fate and UBW.
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May 26, 2015 03:23
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There Bias Two posted:Speaking of which, where did Sakura go? Does she have no role in this route? Don't worry, in Heaven's Feel she gets her chance to... er, maybe not shine, per se, but at least be the center of attention.
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May 26, 2015 04:03
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There Bias Two posted:Speaking of which, where did Sakura go? Does she have no role in this route? Obviously a certain amount of this effect is lost by watching F/Z first, which is part of the reason F/Z was never meant to be seen first, but that's how things go.
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May 26, 2015 05:30
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Endorph posted:Did Archer actually know Shinji was that much of a bastard? Shirou only realizes it in like 1.5 of the routes. It's entirely possible Archer's knowledge of Shinji being a bastard stopped at 'hit Sakura once.' Shinji was coming across as mighty rapey when Archer negotiated with him before his meeting with Shirou, and having Gilgamesh around meant he could very easily act on it without consequence (plus, y'know, Gil is that nasty combination of immensely powerful, utterly amoral, and totally unpredictable himself). As for Rin, yeah, she might not want to dignify Shinji by perceiving him as a threat (although I could see that wearing off a bit after he tried to strangle her to death), but she also almost got her heart ripped out by Kotomine because she was tied to that chair. Whether your captor knew about that particular threat or not, that seems like something to hold a bit of a grudge over. One other odd thing about that scene was how weirdly passive Rin was in it. She's a highly capable mage with Command Seals, and she never did anything to try to effect her own escape even when she was in genuine, mortal danger. Even if she didn't summon Saber (which I guess can be kinda-sorta justified as a matter of pride, even if the situation had devolved beyond what even Rin's ego could likely handle), she could have at least tried to hulk out like she did against Caster and break her bonds. Instead, we got the peculiar situation of one of the most capable, proactive women in the show sitting around helplessly while a bunch of dudes fought over her (yeah, she yelled a bunch of insults, but I'm not counting that).
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May 26, 2015 08:25
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Darth Walrus posted:One other odd thing about that scene was how weirdly passive Rin was in it. She's a highly capable mage with Command Seals, and she never did anything to try to effect her own escape even when she was in genuine, mortal danger. Even if she didn't summon Saber (which I guess can be kinda-sorta justified as a matter of pride, even if the situation had devolved beyond what even Rin's ego could likely handle).... She used 2 of her command seals on Archer, though. As far as I am aware, she only has one left, and using it means ???? happens to Saber. (I don't think its ever stated what happens if you use all your command seals and your servant ISN'T gunning to kill you....) I mean, I agree overall with the whole "Rin is too passive here", but she had MYSTERY CONSEQUENCES to deal with if she summoned Saber.
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May 26, 2015 09:42
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Her pact with Archer was erased by rule breaker. When she made the pact with Saber she got three new seals because it was a new pact. At least that's the impression I got, the seals on her hand looked like they were all there again in the last episode.
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May 26, 2015 10:01
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JimmyT64 posted:She used 2 of her command seals on Archer, though. As far as I am aware, she only has one left, and using it means ???? happens to Saber. Unfortunately, that just shifts the blame right back onto Archer, who should have been able to tell that she was running low on Seals. And, well, he should also know enough about her personality to know that 'eh, she'll just fire off a Command Seal' would by no means be a guarantee even if she was in major trouble. I mean, c'mon, he's had two lifetimes to get to know her.
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May 26, 2015 10:05
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JimmyT64 posted:(I don't think its ever stated what happens if you use all your command seals and your servant ISN'T gunning to kill you....) Using all of your seals simply means you have lost a way to force your Servant to obey an order or to summon them immediately to your location. If you have a good relationship with your Servant, you have nothing to worry about. Take Iskander and Waber for example. If Waber had used all of his seals on say, summoning Iskander repeatedly, nothing would change between them because they are still total bros. Also, your Servant could totally kill you regardless of how many seals you have left if you didn't use a seal to order them to not kill you (looking at you, Kotomine).
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May 26, 2015 13:49
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Schubalts posted:Using all of your seals simply means you have lost a way to force your Servant to obey an order or to summon them immediately to your location. If you have a good relationship with your Servant, you have nothing to worry about. Take Iskander and Waber for example. If Waber had used all of his seals on say, summoning Iskander repeatedly, nothing would change between them because they are still total bros. And even then, a sufficiently determined Servant would totally rules-lawyer their way around the Command Seal to kill you if they really really wanted to, much like Caster did.
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May 26, 2015 14:11
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Why do you still keep posting and watching each episode if you hate this show and source materials so much? Compendium posted:Then you're probably not really watching it in the first place. Unless your this guy it seems
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