|
I don't know, would he have beat Parv? I thought Jeff did one of those reunion votes that showed Parv would have won against Danielle/Jerri and Russell but maybe I'm just making that up in my head because its how I would have voted.
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 19:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 16:16 |
|
Bigass Moth posted:Didn't Russell lose that one because he eliminated Danielle instead of Sandra due to paranoia? Russel had no shot at winning that season, but to be fair, he was already 39 days on the Island before the show started, which is pretty incredible if you think about it.
|
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
People bring that up but hasn't that happened a bunch with like Amanda and James (China/Micronesia) and Malcolm (Phillipines/Caramoan). They didn't all go insane like Russell. Maybe Russell just started off crazy.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:People bring that up but hasn't that happened a bunch with like Amanda and James (China/Micronesia) and Malcolm (Phillipines/Caramoan). They didn't all go insane like Russell. Maybe Russell just started off crazy. China and Micronesia weren't back to back filming, they had time off between them. I think the same is true of Phillipines/Caramoan, but I'm not 100% sure. It's kind of crazy to watch the transformation to his body alone. Dude was pretty pudgy at the start of Samoa. Edit: China finished August 2nd and Micronesia began October 29th. Samoa finished July 19th and HvV began August 9th. Philippines finished April 25th and Caramoan started May 21st so Malcolm came the closest to doing the same thing. BGrifter fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 19:59
|
|
STAC Goat posted:People bring that up but hasn't that happened a bunch with like Amanda and James (China/Micronesia) and Malcolm (Phillipines/Caramoan). They didn't all go insane like Russell. Maybe Russell just started off crazy. China/Micronesia had about 4 month between filming, Phillipines/Caramoan had about a month and Samoa/HvV had 2 weeks.
|
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Ah, my bad. I suppose I might have been overzealous in my desire to rip down Russell's excuses for why he's a bad Survivor player.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
I vaguely remembered something about Russell being a complete paranoid mess that production was actually worried about and had a couple psychologists there to help him after he got voted out.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:24
|
|
|
The best part about Russell in hvv is that he doesn't know he lost yet. I doubt they told him prior to production. So he literally plays the same game and doesn't know it won't work.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #91 posted:The best part about Russell in hvv is that he doesn't know he lost yet. I doubt they told him prior to production. So he literally plays the same game and doesn't know it won't work. He had every reason to think he won his first game except he had the most bitter jury in history.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:He had every reason to think he won his first game except he had the most bitter jury in history. The Funny 115 has an amazing 3-part writeup about this. It's very, very long but so worth it. http://funny115.com/v2/2.htm
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:He had every reason to think he won his first game except he had the most bitter jury in history. Which is what happens when you spend 30 days pissing everyone off and destroying every little bit of good will that could possibly exist in a game that ultimately comes down to a popularity contest.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
He still excelled at one of the two aspects as opposed to simply existing until angry people put a million dollar check in your lap for no reason other than spite.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Haven't we already established that you can play a very aggressive game and still remain likeable through Tony's victory? Russell deserved to lose and Natalie played the best game of that season. When you've got a psychotic bulldozer dragging you to the end, go along with it willingly and make friends with everyone you can as they get trampled. It doesn't make for compelling television, but its A grade Survivor gameplay.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:15
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Which is what happens when you spend 30 days pissing everyone off and destroying every little bit of good will that could possibly exist in a game that ultimately comes down to a popularity contest. It all runs in cycles, and mind you this is like 15+ years of blurry memory. I've seen them all, but I'm not an expert. At first, save the good challenge players until merge was the OBVIOUS thing to do, and then it slowly devolved into voting off the biggest THREATS even to the detriment of your own team, because of course you expect that you'll still make it to the merge. Of course I'LL make it.. you know what I mean? Then people started realizing that this was generally bad odds - going to tribal over and over. So it swung the other way again, and back and forth etc. It also swings a lot more randomly between cool players who see this thing as a game, and annoying people who see this thing as a reason to get mad at people. There are also seasons where you have to be irritatingly careful to never look like you have a best friend (a couple or just BFF's), because people will immediately try to break it. Or not, depends on the season. The things that keep it from being a popularity contest are the challenges, and the hidden idols - otherwise it would literally just be a popularity contest, and that's no fun. Everyone raise your hand for the irritating lady?? The number one skill you can have on Survivor at this point is being able to read people and also to keep your mouth SHUT probably most of the time. Also a good mathematical mind, both for puzzles and for the more important skill of running through all the possible outcomes of a vote, many steps ahead, without going completely insane while doing it. I know YUL had the insane kryptonite Idol, but I still love the guy and he might have won anyways. So that's more like 4 things, but READ PEOPLE (this is an unteachable skill) and don't be the BEST at every challenge, but come CLOSE, is my final answer. In the end, you still get the luck of the draw when it comes to your original tribe and what kind of people the Jury will actually be. I still think there is an appropriate amount of luck to make it interesting except when they do random tribe swaps (hate those) and basically screw some people right in the butt. Sometimes you get randomed right up your pooper where there is NO possible escape. It's rare, but it happens. For all I know do to the edit, I would have voted Russell the first time to win.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:21
|
|
|
DoggPickle posted:For all I know do to the edit, I would have voted Russell the first time to win. Would you though if the guy just cost you a million dollars? Part of the fun for the jury is they can get instant revenge if they want. Russell just apparently wasn't aware enough of how the game works in that regard, because it's always been part of the game.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:45
|
|
|
Can someone remind me where I can stream old episodes of Survivor? I've missed like half the seasons and just got hired for a summer job that's going to give me weird hours and lots of chances to drink. I think I saw the first few seasons, then tuned out and only watched returning player seasons (so i've seen every season with Rupert except his first) before getting hooked a few years ago again. Would be particularly fun to watch Fans vs Favorite and Heroes vs Villains and actually know who 90% of the people are...
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 00:20
|
|
|
CBS has their access pass and Hulu has something like seasons 1, 2, and 12+ or some odd combination like that.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
Amazon prime has a bunch too.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I always figured the appeal of HvV is watching Russell think he's the king of Survivor controlling the game only to be outplayed by both Sandra and Parv. Like, you can say Samoa was just a bitter jury if you want to but Russell was a straight up goat in HvV who Parv manipulated the whole game and who Sandra just outsmarted. I haven't rewatched HvV yet but from my recollection that's a massive overstatement of Sandra's game in that season. She was absolutely fixated on voting Russel out basically the whole game, and failed miserably every damned time. Her fate in the game was completely out of her hands at least twice (the decision between Courtney & Sandra pre merge, and the Jerri or Sandra at Final 4). Both times Russel chose poorly. Parvati deserved that win hands down but instead she got bizzare hate about being a battered woman when in reality she ran that game. Someone's gonna post Sandra.jpg in reply to this but I really think her whole legacy is built on ridiculous luck and circumstances completely out of her control/despite her poor play rather than because of good play.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 07:55
|
|
|
Smorgasbord posted:I haven't rewatched HvV yet but from my recollection that's a massive overstatement of Sandra's game in that season. She was absolutely fixated on voting Russel out basically the whole game, and failed miserably every damned time. Her fate in the game was completely out of her hands at least twice (the decision between Courtney & Sandra pre merge, and the Jerri or Sandra at Final 4). Both times Russel chose poorly. Parvati deserved that win hands down but instead she got bizzare hate about being a battered woman when in reality she ran that game. Apparently Parvati really lost because she would openly read JT's letter constantly and laugh about it, within earshot of the remaining Heroes.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 08:01
|
|
|
Smorgasbord posted:I haven't rewatched HvV yet but from my recollection that's a massive overstatement of Sandra's game in that season. She was absolutely fixated on voting Russel out basically the whole game, and failed miserably every damned time. Her fate in the game was completely out of her hands at least twice (the decision between Courtney & Sandra pre merge, and the Jerri or Sandra at Final 4). Both times Russel chose poorly. Parvati deserved that win hands down but instead she got bizzare hate about being a battered woman when in reality she ran that game. Sandra is the biggest example of judging result vs. intention for me. She's without question the most successful contestant they've had seeing as she's won twice, but at no point during either season did I really feel like what made her so good was being done intentionally. She just kind of happened into these great positions. There's a lot to be said for simply not loving yourself over, but in terms of actually playing the game, she's not even close to the top IMO.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
Spatula City posted:Apparently Parvati really lost because she would openly read JT's letter constantly and laugh about it, within earshot of the remaining Heroes.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 17:44
|
|
|
I think Sandra is smart. She knows how to get herself out of a corner and talk her way into a marginally better position. She's basically the epitome of a "Survivor". She's not some massive manipulator like Parvati or Russell are, she's content to mostly let the game go at its own flow as long as she's good. But when she gets into a tight spot she manages to work her way out of it every single time. Granted, there's definitely a "results" judgment there but how can there not be? Results are hard to argue with, especially in this context. You don't "luck" into two Survivor wins. And again, Sandra plays a good social game and the Russells and his supporters forget that's part of the game. In the end Sandra won HvV for the same reasons she won Pearl Islands. She danced her way to the end and had more people who liked her on the jury than didn't. That's the simple bottom line of this game. Russell may have manipulated his way to the end twice but he failed on that incredibly important second part both times. I think Parv is one of the best players, if not the best, all time but she obviously also failed to do that in HvV. Maybe that's because she got too close to Russell, relished in the "villain" thing too much, or pissed off the "heroes" especially with stuff like JT's letter? Who knows? Its tough to read the emotional and mental states of the jurors at the time but that's EXACTLY what you have to do if you're a Survivor finalist. Russell is loving terrible at it, Parv is pretty good at it, Sandra was better at least that one time. That doesn't make Sandra the best of all time or Parv a bad player. like I said, I'd be ok saying Parv is the best of all time over Sandra because I think she's got a bunch of massive game skills over Sandra and isn't bad at the things Sandra is great at (just not quite as good). And I'm not saying Russell is a hopeless player. He's a master manipulator, for sure. But that's one aspect of the game and its one that he went so hard into that he completely destroyed the social aspect of the game. And the fact that he's unable to recognize that and instead whined that the game was broken? That just makes him look like a fool.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
Social ability is a huge part in making things happen in the game and something that somebody like Rodney was great at. But I think with juries, a lot of it is about where they came from. If you betrayed them or were from an enemy alliance, but someone was with them also made it to the end, they're naturally going to want to vote for the friendly person. And I think this happens pretty much every season that jurors have that option. Look at Worlds Apart: Mike was outcast from the Blue Collars and worked with the No Collars/Shirin, and he got all the No Collar votes. He only got one blue collar vote, and two blue collar votes went to his opponents. Carolyn betrayed Tyler and didn't get his vote. And this sort of breakdown is really obvious in HvV. Of course, usually the F2/F3 all belongs to the same unit, and then this isn't a factor. Like Monica/Gervase/Tyson or Tony/Woo.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
A few days after a season ends, all off-season Survivor discussion inevitably becomes "Did Russell Hantz deserve to win" chat
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
Fast Luck posted:Social ability is a huge part in making things happen in the game and something that somebody like Rodney was great at. WHAT? OMG he was such a horrible misogynist. Maybe he was friendlier in the long term than he looked on TV, but I wanted to punch him constantly. Sorry for picking out a single line of your post 
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
bbf2 posted:A few days after a season ends, all off-season Survivor discussion inevitably becomes "Did Russell Hantz deserve to win" chat We did it every week for a while. So be glad this is how it is now.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:04
|
|
|
DoggPickle posted:WHAT? OMG he was such a horrible misogynist. Maybe he was friendlier in the long term than he looked on TV, but I wanted to punch him constantly. Sorry for picking out a single line of your post You wanted to punch him constantly. The other people on the island kinda liked him and thought he was funny. That's why when he pulled that whole "take me to the end because I've been a jerk and people won't vote for me" thing on Mike, it didn't work, because Mike knew it wasn't really true.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:25
|
|
|
But honestly what if Russell played this season? He might have won cause there is no way players like Dan, will or rodney would beat him at the FTC.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:29
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:You wanted to punch him constantly. The other people on the island kinda liked him and thought he was funny. That's why when he pulled that whole "take me to the end because I've been a jerk and people won't vote for me" thing on Mike, it didn't work, because Mike knew it wasn't really true. I forget how the reunion went exactly, but I'd be willing to bet a million imaginary dollars that there was not a woman on the Jury who would have voted Rodney. You can be cool as poo poo, but if HALF the people you meet think you're the dregs of the Jersey Shore and want to stab you in the eyeballs, your "social game" isn't really all that tight. (wait, did Jen say she would vote him?)
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
Nexal posted:But honestly what if Russell played this season? He might have won cause there is no way players like Dan, will or rodney would beat him at the FTC. Rodney would win. In all the exit interviews the people said they liked being around Rodney. Mike said he thought Rodney was a bigger threat than Caroline. Jenn said she thought Rodney was funny.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
kitten posted:Rodney would win. In all the exit interviews the people said they liked being around Rodney. Mike said he thought Rodney was a bigger threat than Caroline. Jenn said she thought Rodney was funny. I see. Fancy that.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 22:36
|
|
|
DoggPickle posted:I forget how the reunion went exactly, but I'd be willing to bet a million imaginary dollars that there was not a woman on the Jury who would have voted Rodney. You can be cool as poo poo, but if HALF the people you meet think you're the dregs of the Jersey Shore and want to stab you in the eyeballs, your "social game" isn't really all that tight. (wait, did Jen say she would vote him?) The women absolutely would have voted for him if the other choices were Dan and Will, no question. And even in the other matchups he probably would have done okay. I think he was a bit of a victim of bad editing since he came off to the audience as a big dumb douchebag but most of the other players had a lot of good things to say about him. Which is not to say that he wasn't a douchebag, but he was a douchebag who played an honestly pretty tight social game most of the time and got most of the other people out there to like him and formed a surprisingly solid and long-lived alliance.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 23:31
|
|
|
http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2015-mike-holloway-cast/ This is awesome and everyone who loves this show should give it a listen if they have the time. Mike is awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 23:34
|
|
|
Would any of the more heroic players from other seasons be able to turn things around in HvV if they had made it? Kim, Mike, Malcolm, Denise? Or even if Cirie had made it to the merge? I mean let's face it, after Cirie got booted there weren't that many strategic players on the Heroes going into the merge, barring maybe Candice and Amanda, who had their own issues.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 00:14
|
|
|
Spatula City posted:http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2015-mike-holloway-cast/ Yeah I'm about 2/3eds of the way through it, and it's a really good post mortem on this season.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Would any of the more heroic players from other seasons be able to turn things around in HvV if they had made it? Kim, Mike, Malcolm, Denise? Or even if Cirie had made it to the merge? The only way to salvage that tribe was to set Rupert on fire. The fans would probably cough up a million for whomever did it as a thank you.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
Russell Hantz deserved to win Samoa. Put it on my tombstone.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
Fast Luck posted:This is something I've seen people say but I have no idea what the source is for it. Plus you don't even need a story like this to explain the Sandra win. Sandra tried desperately to work with the Heroes and openly campaigned against Russell, and then all the Heroes voted for her. Parv voted out all the Heroes and worked with Russell, and none of the Heroes voted for her. Votes went exactly according to those lines except for Courtney, a villain, voting for her friend Sandra. So I don't think there's a "real reason" why Parv lost, I mean whether her laughing about that letter is true or not, I think she was going to lose because Sandra got to the end. Sandra openly went against Russell according to her, because he was short and smelled bad, not out of strategy, when she wasn't busy spouting faux tough person bullshit.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 16:16 |
|
|
Terry Glenn posted:Russell Hantz deserved to win Samoa. Put it on my tombstone. Russel Hantz has no idea how to play Survivor, something he unknowingly admitted when he said he never thought about the jury on the HvV Reunion. Numerous times he went out of his way to act like an rear end in a top hat to the people he was voting out and didn't once consider that this might cause problems to him later. He's very good at taking control of the game, but Survivor is about being able to get to the end (which he can do) and still have a majority of the jury be willing to vote for you (which he would never be able to do).
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 04:29
|
|
