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 SERIOUSLY THOUGH READ MORE
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May 26, 2015 12:02
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
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May 26, 2015 12:35
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why read when i can play video games?
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May 26, 2015 15:58
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read video game faqs
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May 26, 2015 16:22
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The Saddest Rhino posted:read video game fanficts
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May 26, 2015 21:12
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i know youre not supposed to apologize for and explain thunderdome stuff, but id like to apologize for and explain my thunderdome story. i missed the part where your main character needed to be endearingly evil, and tried to make him as evil of a dick as possible, with the result being a story that was full of creepy as poo poo rapey stuff (which is a sign of bad writing in itself.) so yeah, gonna formally apologize for ppl who had to read that, if anyone feels creeped out they can brawl me or whatevs
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May 27, 2015 03:55
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spectres of autism posted:wharfmufllarmfluflullfffurmph what was that I couldn't hear you just sort of a muffled noise like someone deciding not to say anything after all
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May 27, 2015 04:17
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So Whichbook is a pretty neat website if you wanna find something new to read. You can search by a ton of different categories.
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May 27, 2015 22:35
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sebmojo posted:what was that I couldn't hear you just sort of a muffled noise like someone deciding not to say anything after all
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May 28, 2015 01:26
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magnificent7 posted:The BITCH though is finding that comfy medium between READ MORE and WRITE MORE. I have taken READ to heart so much that I kind of don't write no more. Just constantly reading, going, "yeah yeah remember how they did that when you start writing again. Later." I spent a year reading and not writing, and when I finally sat down to work I found I could write better than I ever had before. I suppose it helped that I upped the quality in my reading material.
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May 28, 2015 01:47
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Reading good poo poo is fantastic for your prose style. I don't know if it helps with structural stuff too but I bet it does! Never don't read.
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May 28, 2015 02:06
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Stuporstar posted:I spent a year reading and not writing, and when I finally sat down to work I found I could write better than I ever had before. I suppose it helped that I upped the quality in my reading material. Ahhhhh goddammit. I've been reading poo poo, saying, "oh gently caress yeah I could do better than THAT poo poo for sure." SO you're saying that's not the way to go about it? gently caress me. Yeah. Still in here with all the cussing.
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May 28, 2015 02:20
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magnificent7 posted:Ahhhhh goddammit. I've been reading poo poo, saying, "oh gently caress yeah I could do better than THAT poo poo for sure." Dr. Kloctopussy posted:1) For the time spent, you're going to get a lot more out of reading well written literature than reading poorly written literature. Reading poorly written literature is going to give you way more fodder for stroking your own ego though!
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May 28, 2015 02:57
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"read good literature" thanks i wasnt doing that before but im on it now
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May 28, 2015 22:47
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To be honest, I'll read great writing in my genres of choice, or writing that makes me go, "drat that's amazing writing right there", although I'd bet most people wouldn't consider it great literature, or even maybe well-written (just ask Ravenkult. Haters gonna hate.) Thing is, I don't want to write like Hemingway or Faulkner, and reading their stuff is not an easy task for me. Studying it? Definitely. That I can do. But actually reading it? I've tried. I think maybe it's a gateway thing. Get me started on something accessible to the lowest common denominator, and then point me towards the "this is better, but there's not as much zombie murder in it". I'll shut up now and go read some stuff. Might even write. Might.
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May 28, 2015 23:42
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magnificent7 posted:To be honest, I'll read great writing in my genres of choice, or writing that makes me go, "drat that's amazing writing right there", although I'd bet most people wouldn't consider it great literature, or even maybe well-written (just ask Ravenkult. Haters gonna hate.) 1) There are ton of other authors who write really well besides Hemingway and Faulkner. 2) The point of reading Hemingway/Faulkner/Whoever isn't to write just like them, it's to expose yourself to more excellent ways of handling things, so you have more good tools in your writing tool box. You can use what you learn from reading an author without emulating that author. 3) Don't wait for people to spoon-feed you a reading list. Go find poo poo yourself. It's not hard. This took me less than 5 minutes to find: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1230.Best_Gothic_Books_Of_All_Time (Dracula, Wuthering Heights, Frankenstein, Portrait of Dorian Gray, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and The Turn of the Screw are all classics with an element of horror)
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May 29, 2015 00:32
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I think it's important to read outside your genre because if you don't do it, then you'll only be boxed inside your genre, and anything you write will only be informed by genre conventions. I guess for some people that's fine, but for me I always think, "what can I bring into this genre?"
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May 29, 2015 01:16
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In Sir Vidia’s Shadow, Paul Theroux’s book about his friendship with V S Naipaul this story is related of Naipaul as the writer in residence at a university in Uganda, giving critical feedback to students who showed him their work for appraisal:quote:“Really.” Vidia found the boy’s eyes and fixed them with his weary stare. He said, “Don’t write any more poems. I really don’t think you should. Your gifts lie in some other direction. A story, perhaps. Now, promise me you won’t write any more poems.”
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May 29, 2015 02:17
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Neither reading widely nor reading quality work has to mean reading classic literature. Edgar Allan Poe, Agatha Christie, H.P. Lovecraft, Stephen King, Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, Shirley Jackson, and Robert Graves are all authors we can learn from; each of them does at least one thing incredibly well. The key thing is to sample different styles and different kinds of stories. mag7, I know you've read On Writing. King had Faulkner and Conrad on the recommended reading list in the back of that book, but notice he also had Rowling. Non-fiction is good for a literary diet, too. Read about sports you like. Read about your hobbies. Read about things you know nothing about but that sound interesting to you. Read biography, read history, read about the Food Network. You can find ideas in strange places. Trying classic lit won't hurt you either, but there's a lot out there besides classics and the genres you already love.
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May 29, 2015 02:49
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Hobbies, too. Pick up a hobby outside of whatever nerd interest you may have or if it's something you do out of necessity, spin that into your hobby. For instance, cooking has become my hobby for a while now and so has cycling as well. Find something like that and not only will it enrich your life, it will enrich your writing as well.
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May 29, 2015 04:22
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Hobbies can be really good crutches when you don't know how to handle a scene. Robert Jackson Bennett's CITY OF STAIRS has a scene where he can't figure out how to deliver a bunch of exposition, so his protagonist demands a shitload of ingredients and then cooks a delicious-sounding meal while she explains everything. It's transparent, but reasonably effective.
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May 29, 2015 04:51
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So... if we have sexposition scenes like GOT...
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May 29, 2015 07:24
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General Battuta posted:Hobbies can be really good crutches when you don't know how to handle a scene. Robert Jackson Bennett's CITY OF STAIRS has a scene where he can't figure out how to deliver a bunch of exposition, so his protagonist demands a shitload of ingredients and then cooks a delicious-sounding meal while she explains everything. It's transparent, but reasonably effective. I just imagined Obi-Wan cooking a curry while telling Luke about his father and I love it.
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May 29, 2015 12:26
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This belongs here:angel opportunity posted:Lately I've started using the pomodoro method (which Dr. K also uses) and it works out REALLY well for me. Basically you set a 25-minute timer, and the instant you hit 'start' on that timer, you go into your writing software and start writing. You don't stop mid-sentence to research some bullshit, because you can always go do that later rather than stopping your writing. In those 25 minutes, you just write. I know Dr. K has told herself she is only allowed to stare at the word processor for 25 minutes regardless of if she actually writes. Usually if you're only allowed to start at a blinking cursor and you can't 'tab over to something else for a second' you will end up writing for most of the 25 minutes anyway. If you have trouble sitting down and writing, I really cannot recommend trying the pomodoro technique enough. One of the reasons I do the "just look at word processor" method is because so often I "don't feel like writing." So telling myself that I'm going to just write for 25 minutes gets an instant "NOPE" from the annoyingly depressed part of my brain. "Just look at a screen" is an attainable goal regardless of how lovely I'm feeling. I am a pretty undisciplined person, and most self-imposed punishment/reward systems do not work for me. Anything like "don't get on IRC until you've written 2000 words" is just a loving joke as far as I'm concerned. But 25 minutes is short enough and "look at the word processor" is easy enough that once I set the timer, I will not look away from the word processor until the timer goes off. Also, I don't do the "figure out what you are going to write first" thing. Next to "I don't feel like writing," "I don't know what to write" is the most common excuse my dumb-brain comes up with for not writing. If I don't know what to write, I can figure it out while I'm staring at the word processor. I have notes for every scene in my scrivener outline for exactly this reason--I can scribble notes about a scene without committing them to my "manuscript" (and I have it set up so my notes don't count towards final word count). I also have a notebook and pen next to me, because usually i brainstorm better on paper, so I do also allow myself to switch to that. I find it a lot more productive to allow myself to spend the first few minutes of a pomodoro (or hell, an entire pomodoro. Or two. Or whatever) figuring out what to write, than putting off starting until I do that. At some point I am going to have an entire pomodoro where I just stare at Scrivener and don't actually type a word. So far that hasn't happened (my least productive pomodoro to-date was 250 words). Unlike angel opportunity, I DON'T check the word count after every pomodoro. I'm too easily depressed by less-than-optimal numbers, and it makes me temporarily lose sight of the over-all usefulness of the technique. Scrivener has a feature where I can set a goal for the session and it pings me when I meet it. I usually check it a few times anyway, to remind myself that words are going in, but I don't check it every time. I do highly recommend keeping something like this though:  Pomodoros 1 - 8 = 4 hours writing! yay! FR is "free writing" which is just writing whatever comes to mind for 2-3 pages. I try to do it every day because it is a relatively easy way for me to start writing. It nearly always starts with something like "fuuuuuck I don't feel like writing and I should do laundry today and....." but it sometimes ends with like "oh poo poo, and this is how I'm going to write that scene where the vampire tries to seduce my heroine!" -- not always. But often enough that it's another trick I use all the time. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:41 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 09:21
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lol quote is not edit. edit-edit: may as well start pasting my diatribe on reading here. I have been thinking a lot about reading, due to some of the recent posts. YOU MUST READI confess to reading mostly books in my favorite category (YA fantasy with female protagonists. If you want a big list of those, I'm probably the one to ask!) I read those because that is what I'm drawn to. It's also what I usually write, for the same reason. I really cannot understand when people want to write books that aren't like the ones they enjoy reading. With the exceptions of purely commercial writing (I'm thinking of erotica and some romance authors--and it's not a diss; and the successful authors in those genres DO read them), and "literature", which I will hopefully amend this post to discuss. Reading and writing are two aspects of the same love for the written word. You can read well without writing, but I don't think you can write well with out reading. Reading (as I and many others have said before) is receiving a master class in writing from teachers at the top of the field. It is, in my opinion, the most pleasurable and most effective writing education you can get. It is glorious. It is immersive. It is communion with like-minded souls! It's fun. If reading isn't fun... I get angry every time someone says something like "maybe you should reconsider this whole writing thing," EXCEPT if it is because you don't like reading at all. If that’s the case…  YOU MUST READI might edit this later to include how I think about reading, which isn’t “the one true way” or anything, but may be useful for someone. Basically, I loosely break up reading into three categories: My "favorite" genre categorys/what I want to write (YA fantasy with a female protagonist; romance), other stuff, and "literature,” and I think about reading them differently, and get different things out of reading them. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:54 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 09:31
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I know ya'll are going ''I don't want to read the classics'' and everything, but just find something that you think might appeal to you and read it. You'll learn a lot. If you're writing fantasy epics and all you read is fantasy epics that's all well and good, but if you can stomach to read a couple of Hemingway novels, maybe some Kafka, or just some Elroy, I guarantee you they will put tools in your toolbox you will never get from fantasy books, even if you read five thousand of them.
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May 30, 2015 10:45
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ravenkult posted:I know ya'll are going ''I don't want to read the classics'' and everything, but just find something that you think might appeal to you and read it. You'll learn a lot. If you're writing fantasy epics and all you read is fantasy epics that's all well and good, but if you can stomach to read a couple of Hemingway novels, maybe some Kafka, or just some Elroy, I guarantee you they will put tools in your toolbox you will never get from fantasy books, even if you read five thousand of them. Moby Dick is a hard read to get started, but once you break 100 pages it's super engaging. Also, it helps to listen to sea shanties and the decemberists while doing so.
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May 30, 2015 11:30
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ravenkult posted:a couple of Hemingway novels, Read his short stories, they're his best work. "The brief happy life of Francis Macomber" would be a good one to start with.
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May 30, 2015 11:41
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SkaAndScreenplays posted:Moby Dick is a hard read to get started, but once you break 100 pages it's super engaging. This. I must have tried to read Moby Dick five times before I finally cracked it and goddamn, it's amazing. Pip 
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May 30, 2015 12:28
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If you can't get through "the classics" then gently caress you idiot. Stop being a poo poo reader. Evelyn Waugh is one of my favorite old timer authors. Both brideshead revisited and a handful of dust are great, accessible novels that give you some classic cred. crabrock fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 17:33
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crabrock posted:Evelyn Waugh is one of my favorite old timer authors. Both brideshead revisited and a handful of dust are great, accessible novels that her you some classic cred. Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at 18:13 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 18:07
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I like The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter.
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May 30, 2015 18:09
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I like how he has a girl's name.
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May 30, 2015 18:35
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he just wanted to match his wife
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May 30, 2015 19:00
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If you're like me and can't stand Hemingway and his glaring problems with women but want to study that sparse type of style, read Camus's The Outsider instead. (Personally, I cannot stand the vast majority of the American literary canon. If you're like me, don't worry! Just read European and Russian poo poo instead.) I'd argue the likes of Ursula K. Le Guin are on par with what normally gets touted as "literature", but it's harder to find and identify spec fiction authors like that, because SFF readers have no taste and a lot of our "classics" are utter dreck. But there are plenty of worthwhile authors in SFF, you just have to know where to look. crabrock posted:Evelyn Waugh is one of my favorite old timer authors. Both brideshead revisited and a handful of dust are great, accessible novels that give you some classic cred. I find Waugh's views morally repulsive, though. I'd rather read books that don't make me feel like I'm pondscum. (Also, he was a dick to Auden and Isherwood, who are my favourite old-timer authors, so gently caress him.)
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May 30, 2015 21:11
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chthonic bell posted:I find Waugh's views morally repulsive, though. Not as repulsive as being a guy called Evelyn, of course.
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May 30, 2015 21:16
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Blood Meridian is science fiction. 
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May 30, 2015 22:10
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General Battuta posted:Blood Meridian is science fiction. Ugh I told myself I wouldn't take the bait, because I think genre debates are almost always pointless and dumb, but I'm curious what qualifications you are using for sci-fi that aren't so inclusive that basically anything could land beneath its umbrella. I've written an embarrassing amount of words about BM for conferences, and while I think there are a ton of labels that you could apply to it, I'm not seeing sci-fi.
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May 30, 2015 23:02
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chthonic bell posted:If you're like me and can't stand Hemingway and his glaring problems with women but want to study that sparse type of style, read Camus's The Outsider instead. I don't mind American lit but I'd second the European and Russian lit recommendations fullheartedly. Can't go wrong with the likes of Charlotte Bronte or Nikolai Gogol. That said, I don't think you should be so hard on genre. Yeah 90% of it isn't very good but 90% of everything isn't very good. It's an often used defense but it's true. We don't fault all slice of life, pseudo-biographical stuff for the existence of a million little pieces. That would be silly. There are plenty of really interesting genre authors out there too. Ursula LeGuin in amazing but she isn't the only notable author. Alice Sheldon(Tiptree Jr) comes to mind if you are looking at only classic authors. Jack Vance might be a bit pulpy for some but his work is really great and distinctive too. On the topic of looking for sparse but not Hemmingway, can always give Elmore Leonard a try. On that note, it's depressing how many really good authors we've lost over just the past few years.
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May 31, 2015 01:33
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I'm a huge fan of SFF and I dislike reducing it to "genre fiction", but the amount of dreck honestly depresses me. EDIT: Also, I write fantasy, so I'm not just being a snob!
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May 31, 2015 03:26
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