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Saagonsa posted:NCR: A republic that's imperialistic but far better than a lot of other options in the post-apocalypse Also controlled by economic, rather than moral reasons. This is worse than House (at least for me), because the economy was all they were concerned about. So long as they had caps, they couldn't care less about the lives and resources they were wasting on a far-off territory. Saagonsa posted:Legion: Unambiguously evil Agreed- but Caesar at least had his reasons other than 'Purge the weak!'. Hell, he didn't just expect to be defeated in a straight-up battle, he planned to. That way, his Legion would be forced to reform itself, keeping what it learned from conflict with the NCR while retaining the philosophies that made it strong, yet remain a culture that was fundamentally different from the prewar attitude that defines the NCR- the same attitude that led to the nukes. Saagonsa posted:House: Protects New Vegas but allows the rest of the wasteland to burn While New Vegas is his baby, progress is his vision- and as an immortal technocrat, has the will and the capacity to ensure that vision is carried out, while the NCR has to muddle along with the conflicting interests of democracy pulling it every which way and the Legion would most likely not survive Caesar's passing. His Vegas wasteland will be cold, sterile, driven solely by progress- but it is something predictable, something that can be adapted to, especially if one is as high-placed as the Courier. Just wipe out the BoS douchebags (Veronica's the exception that proves the rule), and it'll be the best chance the wasteland has for survival. House saved Vegas once, and he will do it again.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:57
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The only faction worth siding with is Elijah.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:59
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You kill all factions and go back to scavenging cool stuff in some far off ruin
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Jun 5, 2015 19:04
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Sharkopath posted:What are the positives of the legion because I havent seen much so far. In theory the Legion is a temporary measure. Caesar's intention is to take over the Republic and moderate their decadence. It's also allegedly safer and freer than the Republic provided that you're not a Legionary or Slave, but you only meet like, one dude who actually lives in Legion lands full time so that's kinda shaky.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:05
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I do wish siding with the Enclave was even an option in 3 though.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:06
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Sharkopath posted:What are the positives of the legion because I haven't seen much so far. Explicitly nothing by design- if you talk to Caesar, he specifically mentions returning to barbarism in order to rebuild humanity from the ground up. However, he also knows he cannot hide his people from technology and advancement forever, hence the clash with the NCR. It's not just for territory, slaves and power; he knows full well that his primitive Legion cannot stand against the NCR's full might (as opposed to the conscripts in Arizona), and is in fact counting on it. He wants the Legion to adapt to the NCR while remaining at its core The Legion, and being better than the two original groups- think 'Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis'. This way, a new culture is created, superior and eventually capable of absorbing both.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:06
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i hated exploring the dc ruins. oh boy more invisible walls better go back into the lovely subways.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:07
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Positive aspects of the enclave: Laser Guns, it is Important To Obey The Robot President.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:07
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Sharkopath posted:I do wish siding with the Enclave was even an option in 3 though. well, you can install the fev virus and poison the purifier i think if you have the that one dlc installed that lets you live past the ending you even get to see everyone dying from drinking the 'pure' water
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Jun 5, 2015 19:08
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Nelson Mandingo posted:NCR has a lot of depth but at no point does the Legion have any positives besides the fact there isn't any banditry in their lands. Which I guess is an ok tradeoff as long as the half of humanity I'm not has to live as unthinking slaves. I wish more time and money was given to Obsidian so they could expand on the Legion, like have a town that is directly under Legion control with Legion citizens. I wish their slavery wasn't so over the top, they should have gone with Roman slavery which by the time of the Empire "wasn't as bad" as say Southern Slavery.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:08
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CommissarMega posted:Explicitly nothing by design- if you talk to Caesar, he specifically mentions returning to barbarism in order to rebuild humanity from the ground up. However, he also knows he cannot hide his people from technology and advancement forever, hence the clash with the NCR. It's not just for territory, slaves and power; he knows full well that his primitive Legion cannot stand against the NCR's full might (as opposed to the conscripts in Arizona), and is in fact counting on it. He wants the Legion to adapt to the NCR while remaining at its core The Legion, and being better than the two original groups- think 'Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis'. This way, a new culture is created, superior and eventually capable of absorbing both. On the other hand, I have a plasma grenade, and Caesar's pocket is right there.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:09
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Sharkopath posted:Positive aspects of the enclave: Laser Guns, it is Important To Obey The Robot President. Also a good choice if you happen to be a...um...pure human supremacist?
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Jun 5, 2015 19:10
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AriadneThread posted:well, you can install the fev virus and poison the purifier Yeah that's all you can do, you never actually side with or join the enclave and President Eden gets destroyed offscreen if you don't blow up the bunker yourself. It doesn't matter if they're a good splinter of the Brotherhood of Steel they're still lame as heck! I wanna be a true patriot.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:10
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Sharkopath posted:Yeah that's all you can do, you never actually side with or join the enclave and President Eden gets destroyed offscreen if you don't blow up the bunker yourself. The stupidest thing about the BoS isn't the split, it's that the wrong side are calling themselves the rebels.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:12
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I would save Moira though because America needs minds like hers.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:12
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Genocyber posted:I never understood this opinion. The majority of the attractions in FO3 are the same old thing, and the few unique things are usually really stupid (and not always in a good way). There's a handful of pretty cool places in FO3. And the city of DC itself with Talons, Mutants and BOS fighting it out is cooler than anything I ever found in NV. Plus you have random Talon camps scattered about, like Fort Bannister. Under default settings that probably get's pretty same-y, but when everyone with a gun can seriously gently caress you up unless you're wearing power armor, just trying to find out what's inside these places is pretty awesome. Opening up a bunker to find out it's just crawling with Talons or Mutants is pretty frightening under those conditions. Of course if you hated subways, you'll probably feel pretty differently.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:12
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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RBA Starblade posted:The stupidest thing about the BoS isn't the split, it's that the wrong side are calling themselves the rebels. I do kinda like that they acknowledge it by them taking on that moniker out of irony. Hahah, yeah sure bud, we're the outcasts here.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:13
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Sharkopath posted:I would save Moira though because America needs minds like hers.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:14
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achillesforever6 posted:I wish more time and money was given to Obsidian so they could expand on the Legion, like have a town that is directly under Legion control with Legion citizens. I wish their slavery wasn't so over the top, they should have gone with Roman slavery which by the time of the Empire "wasn't as bad" as say Southern Slavery. I can kind of understand why caesar went that way though- he wasn't trying to actually be Ancient Rome, just use it as a rallying banner. In all other respects, his plan required an army of barbarian rapist slavers, shorn of the trappings of prewar civilization.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:17
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AriadneThread posted:well, you can install the fev virus and poison the purifier you can even die yourself by drinking it, since you were born BEFORE you & dad moved into the vault. I really loved my first few hours in FO3. It was my first fallout game and everything was new, amazing, interesting. It wasn't just 'Oblivion with Guns' to me and I had no prior Fallout experience to compare it to. I remember being incredibly excited as I went around collecting tin cans, then started digging through dumpsters/garbage cans, then I stepped on a mine and got my legs crippled. I've never had so much fun having hosed up mangled legs.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:21
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Saagonsa posted:What It's pretty obvious if you paid attention. The Legion is the only really "evil" option that's unambiguously a bad choice to rule the Mojave (there's always really weird Legion apologists who crop up, but they usually make arguments like "We don't REALLY know that they're raping women to impregnate them because it's not explicitly spelled out in the dialogue" or "The slavery and execution of unarmed civilians is just a slight bump on the way to prosperity under Caesar" and you shouldn't listen to them), but the rest are entirely dependent on how you play the game: * The NCR is a republic dedicated to building a fair civilization, but is wracked by corruption and stretching itself too thin in the Mojave to help the people. The Courier can help them solve the problems they face (from lack of men to stop raiders to helping training and stamping out traitors and corruption), which lets them bring the Mojave in as a new expansion to their republic where people have to deal with new taxation and laws in exchange for guaranteed protection from the dangers of the post-apocalyptic wasteland and additional assistance to groups like the Followers of the Apocalypse. If the Courier fails to help them or actively makes immoral choices, the NCR rule ranges from "Unsure if good or not" to "Imperialists." * House is a brilliant pre-war mind with an excellent grasp on probability who has access to wide resources and has already been running his city pretty well, at the cost of leaving the majority of the population in abject poverty and violence in the slums ruled by a gang. The Courier can either let House coexist relatively peacefully with the various factions and simply leave the civilians wary but little better than they were in the past, or brutally stamp out dissent and threats and use a heavily armed robot army to keep everyone in line. * The Courier himself or herself is a complete wild card, whose rule depends on exactly how you play: helping everyone with their problems and making allies with virtually every neutral faction, destroying everyone and becoming a despot, or ignoring most everyone that's in conflict and letting it sort itself out. The only consistent part is the NCR and Legion are both booted out and nobody is quite sure exactly what the future will be like with an independent Mojave. The Legion is pretty much 100% "And then they slaughtered this town and enslaved the women and children". chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 19:24
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khy posted:you can even die yourself by drinking it, since you were born BEFORE you & dad moved into the vault. I replayed FO3 again a few months ago for the hell of it and went straight to DC and got bogged down in the Super Mutant vs. Talon section of the mall. I had next to no working weapons, armor, or meds. I basically ended up going from mutant to mutant for ammo and a new weapon, throwing away the broken old one, then got into the Capitol building. I left the Capitol building with a few hundred bullets, a handful more meds than I started with, and several sets of combat armor and a nuclear rocket launcher and it was amazing. FO4 should have you finding way less bullets and drugs but in return everyone dies easier, like in Metro. quote:The Legion is pretty much 100% "And then they slaughtered this town and enslaved the women and children". Don't forget "and stamp out the culture of their allies in favor of the legion".
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Jun 5, 2015 19:27
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khy posted:I remember being incredibly excited as I went around collecting tin cans, then started digging through dumpsters/garbage cans, then I stepped on a mine and got my legs crippled. I've never had so much fun having hosed up mangled legs. I wonder if they'll justify the existence of Talon Company in this game, because they were the standout "doesn't make any loving sense at all" faction in the game, even beyond the Anne Rice vampires.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:27
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chitoryu12 posted:It's pretty obvious if you paid attention. The Legion is the only really "evil" option that's unambiguously a bad choice to rule the Mojave (there's always really weird Legion apologists who crop up, but they usually make arguments like "We don't REALLY know that they're raping women to impregnate them because it's not explicitly spelled out in the dialogue" or "The slavery and execution of unarmed civilians is just a slight bump on the way to prosperity under Caesar" and you shouldn't listen to them) drat straight. Caesar may have method to his madness, but it's still madness.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:30
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The thing I really disliked about FO3 is how all the unique weapons look no different from the normal version of a gun
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Jun 5, 2015 19:37
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CommissarMega posted:Explicitly nothing by design- if you talk to Caesar, he specifically mentions returning to barbarism in order to rebuild humanity from the ground up. However, he also knows he cannot hide his people from technology and advancement forever, hence the clash with the NCR. It's not just for territory, slaves and power; he knows full well that his primitive Legion cannot stand against the NCR's full might (as opposed to the conscripts in Arizona), and is in fact counting on it. He wants the Legion to adapt to the NCR while remaining at its core The Legion, and being better than the two original groups- think 'Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis'. This way, a new culture is created, superior and eventually capable of absorbing both. So you're saying Caesar was a big fan of Mass Effect 3's green ending?
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Jun 5, 2015 19:46
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and with my flaming sword i shall guard the way
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Jun 5, 2015 19:46
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achillesforever6 posted:The thing I really disliked about FO3 is how all the unique weapons look no different from the normal version of a gun They hinted at this game having cutomizable weapons, that woukd be neat.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:49
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Sharkopath posted:They hinted at this game having cutomizable weapons, that woukd be neat. I hope we get customizable armor too. I always installed those types of mods. And armor and weapon packs in general, they are never enough for how long the game is.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:51
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chitoryu12 posted:The Legion is pretty much 100% "And then they slaughtered this town and enslaved the women and children". Sharkopath posted:They hinted at this game having cutomizable weapons, that woukd be neat.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:51
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PittTheElder posted:There's a handful of pretty cool places in FO3. And the city of DC itself with Talons, Mutants and BOS fighting it out is cooler than anything I ever found in NV. You keep saying this but you've never listed any interesting places in FO3. compare http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_quests http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_quests fallout 3 has 11 main quests 17 side quests new vegas has 12 main quests in one line, 14 in another line, 10 in a third, and 9 in a fourth. It has 77 side quests All of fallout 3's quests loving SUCK go get a violin from a vault hahaha no thanks lady
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Jun 5, 2015 20:38
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Listening to Malcolm McDowell on the radio was basically what made FO3 a good game.
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Jun 5, 2015 20:52
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No matter what justification or trite philosophy Caesar provided, tyrants typically stay tyrants. The 'breaking humanity down to build them back up / means justifying the intended ends' didn't convince me of any redeeming qualities the Legion might have had. It was all insincere rhetoric to pretend at idealism that I could see. I was particularly content to wipe them all out considering we all know the depths the actual Roman empire sank to when there was a time on this earth that those ideals were actually considered virtuous.
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Jun 5, 2015 20:54
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Caesar wanted to bring order to the wasteland at any cost. The cost was just too high.Anime Schoolgirl posted:I wonder if they'll justify the existence of Talon Company in this game, because they were the standout "doesn't make any loving sense at all" faction in the game, even beyond the Anne Rice vampires. After 100 hours of playing and mostly enjoying FO3, the vampire quest was what made me drop it. I had forgotten about it until you just mentioned it. gently caress you.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:04
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ropekid (JE Sawyer) actually talked a good deal in the New Vegas thread about the Legion. They get a lot of apologists, but the Legion was always written to be pretty unambiguously lovely and evil and Caesar was always meant to be the leader of a band of immoral raiders whose plan to unite the world under his banner was destined to fail.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:08
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new vegas was better written and fo3 was more fun there, everybody's happy
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Jun 5, 2015 21:10
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achillesforever6 posted:I wish more time and money was given to Obsidian so they could expand on the Legion, like have a town that is directly under Legion control with Legion citizens. I wish their slavery wasn't so over the top, they should have gone with Roman slavery which by the time of the Empire "wasn't as bad" as say Southern Slavery. They honestly SHOULD have had more money until Bethesda loving cornholed them and I doubt we'll ever see another Obsidian Fallout title. Goddamnit, now I'm depressed. achillesforever6 posted:The thing I really disliked about FO3 is how all the unique weapons look no different from the normal version of a gun This always stuck out in my head, it just seemed lazy and stupid but maybe they were juggling memory footprint. Can I just take a moment and once more express how loving stupid they made the Ripper? Like, you can't just give this a slashing attack, outside of VATS? You can't just give this knife attacks with the added sound effects? I was hoping they'd fix it in New Vegas but they improved so much else I didn't give a poo poo.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:10
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Also, Marcus has a super good point about Caesar. He talks a good talk, but it dies with him. Just look at the rear end in a top hat who ends up in charge if you let him die.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:11
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chitoryu12 posted:ropekid (JE Sawyer) actually talked a good deal in the New Vegas thread about the Legion. They get a lot of apologists, but the Legion was always written to be pretty unambiguously lovely and evil and Caesar was always meant to be the leader of a band of immoral raiders whose plan to unite the world under his banner was destined to fail. Pretty much. He was at least somewhat reasonable. The moment he died the legions would have gone to poo poo and resulted in more bloodshed than any other conflict the game alludes to short of the original nuclear war.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:12
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Sharzak posted:new vegas was better written and fo3 was more fun Except fallout 3 has no reason to be played except as a good reminder as to why new vegas was better and fallout 3 belongs in a trash heap Rope kid I know you're reading this hire me I'll be your professional Obsidian PR guy pm me
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Jun 5, 2015 21:12
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