The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

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BlackFrost: Feb 6, 2008; Have you figured it out yet?

Jibo posted:

But seriously though, the Lost is just a huge pain in the rear end. Unless you feel bad about it, you can always check Modding of Isaac for the character editor and give him Holy Mantle and/or Stop Watch by default. Or you can just restart until you get one of the two early. But really if you play him a bunch you start to get to the point where most situations are totally doable and will start only losing to poo poo like flying into red poop and stumbling across Daddy Long Legs.

Managed to make it to The Chest thanks to Dead Cat, the D20 and some decent rear end tear upgrades. I was hoping to be able to beat Isaac without using the Chaos Card to save it for ???, so I spent the three remaining lives on him before just hitting him with the card to get the unlock. I died pretty quickly in the Chest in a room with two Bloats, but I was happy I managed to make it so far without the stopwatch. If I'd had that it would've been in the bag, I think.

I'm playing on PS4, so I don't think I can use mods or anything.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 05:31

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 11:46

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

If you really wanted to cheat it, you still could on PS4. Delete all the patches and use the old invincibility glitch. Getting items would be easy as well because you could use seeds to unlock items in the beginning. Probably have to start a new file though.

Playing him legit though I'd advise you just reset the first floor until you get something that actually helps you, like the Holy Mantle. You don't have to be the best of the best to complete The Lost, but you do need a fair amount of luck in what items drop for you.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 13:12

Skunkrocker: Jan 14, 2012; Your favorite ~~furry~~ wrestler.

Huh, there aren't a whole lot of modding tutorials out there, and these files for things like levels seem... well a bit complex. I wasn't terribly interested in modding the game to be fair, just curious what all could be done.

Also I dunno if I like the original soundtrack more or less. Some of Danny's songs I feel are better, some of Ridiculon's rule though. Not entirely sure. I miss the original Binding of Isaac theme to be sure; it's kind of like the Elm Street films... like Nightmare 1 had that awesome Charles Bernstein theme that was perfect, and it was memorable, and then you hear Christopher Young's stuff in Freddy's Revenge and you're like "well it's good but where's the classic Freddy theme? It's not here..."

# ? Jun 13, 2015 14:27

Edmund Honda: Sep 27, 2003

The modders aren't kidding when they say they've made the endgame harder

# ? Jun 13, 2015 15:00

IUG: Jul 14, 2007

Sure doesn't look like they made it any more fun though.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 15:04

egg tats: Apr 3, 2010

IUG posted:

Sure doesn't look like they made it any more fun though.

I can't speak for all of them, but both God mode and the Savior mod tweak the item pools and up the chances you have to get items enough that it usually is, although I haven't done that fight before.

The lost on Savior is actually pretty good, since he starts with a damage up and holy mantle. Still doesn't help with the boss rush.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 15:59

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

senae posted:

I can't speak for all of them, but both God mode and the Savior mod tweak the item pools and up the chances you have to get items enough that it usually is, although I haven't done that fight before.

The lost on Savior is actually pretty good, since he starts with a damage up and holy mantle. Still doesn't help with the boss rush.

The problem with God Mode is that the item pools are tweaked up to make you a bit stronger but it's not really proportional to the difficulty increase. Ways that difficulty is increased:

You fight higher level enemies sooner (For example, Skollex as a boss in Basement 1 and Hives and walking Hosts as enemies)

They have more enemies and obstacles per room including bosses. For example Skollex in Basement 1 actually has two or three Skollexes and there is a 1x2 boss room in B1 that is against the Haunt where there are an additional 4 ghosts and there are 4 teleporting ghosts and three big pits in the middle limiting maneuverability.

New attack patterns and obstacles on boss fights. The Haunt's bullet burst is a wave of shots and it's hard to go between, you just kind of have to stay away. Pestilence's room can start you trapped behind a rock with a lit bomb outside it, making it so you can't move initially and possibly costing you a hit if you don't have flight. Gurdy and Mega Maw both have rooms where you can have red Pokies going around the outside of the room or even worse two Grey pokies that you just kind of have to dance around through the whole fight. Also Mega Maw's shots are in a tighter pattern and are spectral now. It Lives has a much tighter pattern when it's up in the air and I have a real hard time dodging it. It Lives also can spawn with red pokeys circling the room or (worst of all) with stone turret things in each corner. There's also a 2x1 It Lives room where it spawns with Champion versions of all four horsemen and Conquest. Isaac can spawn with two grey Pokies (good luck dodging beams there) or with green stone turrets in each corner. Finally The Lamb (or whatever he's renamed in this) has an attack in his last phase that is like the regular Lamb's Brimstone spin. Except he does 5 of them stacked on top of each other on a slight delay so there is literally no way to dodge this attack as the beams cross over each other.

Lastly and most importantly, enemies and bosses have at their base, a 0-25% increase in health. The creator also implemented a scaling feature where each enemy has their health increased depending on how far into the run you are. The result is that by the time you are fighting the last bosses, they have so much health that it is a bullshit slog if you've gotten good upgrades and drat near impossible if you didn't. You simply won't melt anyone the way you do in the unmodded game. For example, going in to It Lives recently I had Guppy mode, Brimstone, and Ludovico technique along with maxed out damage pips in the stat menu. Despite having 6 soul hearts and the Polaroid, I barely got it out of the eye spawning wave before it killed me. I also quit a run last night because despite getting Epic Fetus, I didn't get many damage ups and it was taking me ~30 missile shots to drop the bosses in the regular Chest rooms.

So yes, you will get way more items and cooldowns have been decreased across the board but in the end it still ends up being considerably more difficult than the unmodded game.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 16:37

Codiekitty: Nov 7, 2014

First time I ever tried to play as the Lost, the game gave me Ludovico Technique and the Haunt on the first floor :toot:

# ? Jun 13, 2015 17:01

egg tats: Apr 3, 2010

Jibo posted:

The problem with God Mode is that the item pools are tweaked up to make you a bit stronger but it's not really proportional to the difficulty increase. Ways that difficulty is increased:

You fight higher level enemies sooner (For example, Skollex as a boss in Basement 1 and Hives and walking Hosts as enemies)

They have more enemies and obstacles per room including bosses. For example Skollex in Basement 1 actually has two or three Skollexes and there is a 1x2 boss room in B1 that is against the Haunt where there are an additional 4 ghosts and there are 4 teleporting ghosts and three big pits in the middle limiting maneuverability.

New attack patterns and obstacles on boss fights. The Haunt's bullet burst is a wave of shots and it's hard to go between, you just kind of have to stay away. Pestilence's room can start you trapped behind a rock with a lit bomb outside it, making it so you can't move initially and possibly costing you a hit if you don't have flight. Gurdy and Mega Maw both have rooms where you can have red Pokies going around the outside of the room or even worse two Grey pokies that you just kind of have to dance around through the whole fight. Also Mega Maw's shots are in a tighter pattern and are spectral now. It Lives has a much tighter pattern when it's up in the air and I have a real hard time dodging it. It Lives also can spawn with red pokeys circling the room or (worst of all) with stone turret things in each corner. There's also a 2x1 It Lives room where it spawns with Champion versions of all four horsemen and Conquest. Isaac can spawn with two grey Pokies (good luck dodging beams there) or with green stone turrets in each corner. Finally The Lamb (or whatever he's renamed in this) has an attack in his last phase that is like the regular Lamb's Brimstone spin. Except he does 5 of them stacked on top of each other on a slight delay so there is literally no way to dodge this attack as the beams cross over each other.

Lastly and most importantly, enemies and bosses have at their base, a 0-25% increase in health. The creator also implemented a scaling feature where each enemy has their health increased depending on how far into the run you are. The result is that by the time you are fighting the last bosses, they have so much health that it is a bullshit slog if you've gotten good upgrades and drat near impossible if you didn't. You simply won't melt anyone the way you do in the unmodded game. For example, going in to It Lives recently I had Guppy mode, Brimstone, and Ludovico technique along with maxed out damage pips in the stat menu. Despite having 6 soul hearts and the Polaroid, I barely got it out of the eye spawning wave before it killed me. I also quit a run last night because despite getting Epic Fetus, I didn't get many damage ups and it was taking me ~30 missile shots to drop the bosses in the regular Chest rooms.

So yes, you will get way more items and cooldowns have been decreased across the board but in the end it still ends up being considerably more difficult than the unmodded game.

That wasn't my experience with God mode, but I only played through it 2 or 3 times before deciding it was way too ugly.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 17:37

Edmund Honda: Sep 27, 2003

senae posted:

That wasn't my experience with God mode, but I only played through it 2 or 3 times before deciding it was way too ugly.

I've done maybe 4 meaningful runs and haven't felt the difficulty was overly unfair, whereas Savior felt pretty cruel a lot of the time.

Having flight is absolutely essential though.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 17:39

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

I don't hate it or anything, it just seems way harder to me. I mean I got RPG in Savior Mod in like a week and a half and I've been doing God Mode for at least a month and still have a long way to go.

I play this game way too much and it's nice to have something fresh either way.

Once I'm done with RPG in God Mode I think I might try modding it myself.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 17:57

Cobalt60: Jun 1, 2006

BlackFrost posted:

Holy poo poo, how does anyone have the patience to play as The Lost? After a good 100 death streak, I finally had a good enough run going to make it to Womb 2. I was feeling good--just a few rooms from It Lives, and I had The Bible, so if nothing else I was going to get the loving heart kill. Stop Watch is 100% required to get this far by the way, unless you get one of those crazy runs where you look at something and it dies.

Anyway, room before It Lives, it's a room with two of those giant versions of the eyeballs that shoot brimstone lasers. Dead before I can even react to them.

This is some horseshit. I may wait until The Lost gets "powered up" with spectral tears, as that should at least make The Cellar feasible to claw through to see if the first few items are going to make the run possible or not.

Does it still work to fast-quit the game before your death-ghost hits the top of the screen? That's the only way I beat the Lost's unlock requirements.

TBH, I think this would be a fine way to play the character. It makes him like a level-by-level rogue-like, instead of all-or-nothing which is at least reasonable, to me.

# ? Jun 13, 2015 19:59

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

I tried going back to the Eternal Edition, and I have to say that it's much more tolerable now. There's still a few balance issues here and there, but now it doesn't feel like a massive slog if you lack damage. The Eternal enemies and bosses have like slightly more HP than their normal counterparts instead of a lot more HP which went a long way into making this kind of fun. Now it actually plays like a more challenging version of BOI if you're into that kind of thing.

Oh also, Shot Speed upgrades now decrease the special item counter in EE, so they actually make it easier to find damage ups.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 00:35

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

I just got the dead cat, scythes, and the stopwatch on the first two floors as the lost. I'm not coming back to the game until I've gotten a continuous 8 hours of sleep and have a pot of coffee ready.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 06:57

Hyphen-ated: Apr 24, 2006; Not to be confused with endash or minus.

Dr. Fetus posted:

Oh also, Shot Speed upgrades now decrease the special item counter in EE, so they actually make it easier to find damage ups.

Increasing the special counter is good in WOTL, because it makes you more likely to get non-special items from devil deals. Brimstone, knife, and guppy pieces are non-special. (Maybe the analysis comes out different in EE, I dunno)

# ? Jun 14, 2015 08:54

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Hyphen-ated posted:

Increasing the special counter is good in WOTL, because it makes you more likely to get non-special items from devil deals. Brimstone, knife, and guppy pieces are non-special. (Maybe the analysis comes out different in EE, I dunno)

Florian changed which items were special or not. Every passive that doesn't provide a damage up or modifies your tears heavily (Except for IPECAC, which isn't special anymore) are no longer special. The only special items are ones that provide a direct increase to the damage stat. I'm pretty sure that applies to regular WOTL too if you have the EE DLC enabled.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 17:53

Hyphen-ated: Apr 24, 2006; Not to be confused with endash or minus.

Dr. Fetus posted:

Florian changed which items were special or not. Every passive that doesn't provide a damage up or modifies your tears heavily (Except for IPECAC, which isn't special anymore) are no longer special. The only special items are ones that provide a direct increase to the damage stat. I'm pretty sure that applies to regular WOTL too if you have the EE DLC enabled.

Is there a list of which items are special in EE? It might still be the case that increasing your special counter is good, since neither knife, brimstone, nor guppy pieces increase your damage stat, so from what you just said they wouldn't be special, and therefore you're more likely to get them if you have special items.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 18:05

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Hyphen-ated posted:

Is there a list of which items are special in EE? It might still be the case that increasing your special counter is good, since neither knife, brimstone, nor guppy pieces increase your damage stat, so from what you just said they wouldn't be special, and therefore you're more likely to get them if you have special items.

While Guppy pieces aren't special, the Knife and Brimstone are now special. And those items along with Dr. Fetus and Epic Fetus now have a chance to not be in the item pools at all in a run. Only in hard mode though.

Here's the changes made to the special item pool.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 18:15

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

Cheekio posted:

I just got the dead cat, scythes, and the stopwatch on the first two floors as the lost. I'm not coming back to the game until I've gotten a continuous 8 hours of sleep and have a pot of coffee ready.

Quoting for context ^^

I have the option of getting Mom's Knife, which I think is the right move considering I'm aiming to beat the boss rush.

Considering I have scythes which already don't have knockback, I think there's no real negative to switching scythes for the knife, at least not at the end of the depths... right?

# ? Jun 14, 2015 18:59

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

I kind of want to try out Eternal now but I just remembered how poorly it runs on my computer and that it doesn't have controller support so ehhhh.

Maybe I will anyway, it seems interesting.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 19:07

quidditch it and quit it: Oct 11, 2012

Just rerolled until I got Pyro first room, managed to get Sharp Plug in the next shop. Didn't understand how Sharp Plug worked, I couldn't seem to get the charge to go up. After accidentally killing myself, I now understand how it works. gently caress it.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 19:12

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

I think I stepped on a fly or something in the boss rush, which is disappointing because I was doing so well.

That said, I've got 3 of the 6 lost endgames completed, so... hell. That feels good.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 19:27

quidditch it and quit it: Oct 11, 2012

Got it sorted now. In the Chest, infinite rerolls, two Bandage Girls and heaps of other familiars but only a 3/4 Meat Boy so far...

# ? Jun 14, 2015 22:04

cryptoclastic: Jul 3, 2003; The Jesus

I thought Brimstone was always special in WoTL? I remember seeing it listed as such on Platinum God at one point. Was that just misinformation?

# ? Jun 15, 2015 00:00

omeg: Sep 3, 2012

Oh hey, Little Chad, I don't need this poo poo.

Oh.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 03:06

Inside Out Mom: Jan 9, 2004; Franklin B. Znorps
Dignity, Class, Internet

Just had a run where I was getting nothing. No keys, no money. Started with guppy's paw, and on depths 2 I popped a joker with 6 soul hearts. Was able to pick up dark bum and dead cat. Put me at one red heart, So I used the paw and found a bunch of red hearts and built up my health again. Went into the challenge room and found a guppy's collar. Went from "Oh man I don't know if I'm gonna get this 5th heart kill tonight" to "gently caress it, the devil door opened, lets go kill Satan". What a rush! I don't know why I waited so long to pick this up. Hell of a time.

If "everything is terrible" unlocked does that mean the cathedral is now open? Or by going into Sheol did I not record the 5th heart kill required for that? Or am I totally off base with something?

# ? Jun 15, 2015 04:58

Hyphen-ated: Apr 24, 2006; Not to be confused with endash or minus.

cryptoclastic posted:

I thought Brimstone was always special in WoTL? I remember seeing it listed as such on Platinum God at one point. Was that just misinformation?

I think it's slightly more likely that you're misremembering; I don't remember it ever being wrong on platgod. Brimstone and knife were always non-special afaik. It took a long time for people to realize that this implies getting special items is good, though. We figured it out in the racing community sometime between balls of steel 1 and 2, so like june of last year.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 06:21

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

Inside Out Mom posted:

Just had a run where I was getting nothing. No keys, no money. Started with guppy's paw, and on depths 2 I popped a joker with 6 soul hearts. Was able to pick up dark bum and dead cat. Put me at one red heart, So I used the paw and found a bunch of red hearts and built up my health again. Went into the challenge room and found a guppy's collar. Went from "Oh man I don't know if I'm gonna get this 5th heart kill tonight" to "gently caress it, the devil door opened, lets go kill Satan". What a rush! I don't know why I waited so long to pick this up. Hell of a time.

If "everything is terrible" unlocked does that mean the cathedral is now open? Or by going into Sheol did I not record the 5th heart kill required for that? Or am I totally off base with something?

It did count as a heart kill but the Cathedral and Sheol paths only open after unlocking It Lives which is 11 Mom's Heart kills.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 16:59

Inside Out Mom: Jan 9, 2004; Franklin B. Znorps
Dignity, Class, Internet

Ah, well that explain the puzzle piece as my save file now. So does "everything is terrible" just do as it says and make the game harder?

# ? Jun 15, 2015 17:43

Ariong: Jun 25, 2012

As I recall it increases the likelihood of champion enemies and makes it possible for bosses to be champions as well. Champion bosses have abilities tied to their color like champion enemies, but those abilities are unique. For example, Red Champion Monstro takes the form of two monstros each with slightly less health than one of the original. I don't think champion bosses always deal 1 full heart of damage like champion enemies.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 17:51

IMJack: Apr 16, 2003; Royalty is a continuous ripping and tearing motion.; Fun Shoe

It also means bosses will only drop a single heart when killed, except for champions which drop 2 hearts when beaten as a floor boss and 1 heart otherwise.

Some of the champion bosses are easier than their normal versions.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 18:27

Nighthand: Nov 4, 2009; what horror the gas

Finally managed the infinite reroll with sharp plug, wager, epic fetus and pyromaniac. Got the monster manual in the chest, rerolled for half an hour, and got the little assholes. Now all I need is Godhead, which I must have missed on a floor I didn't get a god room or something, because I rerolled everything into breakfast and didn't see it.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 19:10

Vic Boss: Jan 19, 2007; You're pretty good.

Nighthand posted:

Finally managed the infinite reroll with sharp plug, wager, epic fetus and pyromaniac. Got the monster manual in the chest, rerolled for half an hour, and got the little assholes. Now all I need is Godhead, which I must have missed on a floor I didn't get a god room or something, because I rerolled everything into breakfast and didn't see it.

Sometimes it's just not in any item pool in a given run.

Have fun!

# ? Jun 15, 2015 20:07

biscuits and crazy: Oct 10, 2012

Just had a great hard mode run with Samson where I got Brimstone in the 1st devil room and then Mom's Knife in the Caves/Catacombs. It's a wonderful combo, just as ridiculously powerful as you might expect.

Seed: TL4W 2WYE

# ? Jun 15, 2015 20:11

Vic Boss: Jan 19, 2007; You're pretty good.

Ilyich posted:

Just had a great hard mode run with Samson where I got Brimstone in the 1st devil room and then Mom's Knife in the Caves/Catacombs. It's a wonderful combo, just as ridiculously powerful as you might expect.

Seed: TL4W 2WYE

I think that combo is much weaker than either just Brimstone or just Mom's Knife. Looks nice and people go "Whoa awesome!" but it's not that strong from what I could tell the few times I got it.

Really wish Brimstone worked with stuff like 20/20.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 20:37

Skunkrocker: Jan 14, 2012; Your favorite ~~furry~~ wrestler.

Vic Boss posted:

Sometimes it's just not in any item pool in a given run.

Have fun!

What? For real? That's kinda fucky.

Vic Boss posted:

I think that combo is much weaker than either just Brimstone or just Mom's Knife. Looks nice and people go "Whoa awesome!" but it's not that strong from what I could tell the few times I got it.

This. It looks totally loving sweet, especially with something like Loki's Horns and you're just spraying hundreds of knives in every direction, but the problem is they have poo poo damage. Only the main knife has any, the rest getting a huge reduction. Something about the way they coded that. I'm not even sure damage ups help.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 20:55

biscuits and crazy: Oct 10, 2012

Vic Boss posted:

I think that combo is much weaker than either just Brimstone or just Mom's Knife. Looks nice and people go "Whoa awesome!" but it's not that strong from what I could tell the few times I got it.

Really wish Brimstone worked with stuff like 20/20.

Yeah, I noticed the knife stream damage was fairly low, but the range makes up for it for me, since I'm incredibly awful at using Mom's Knife. I've played both games for about 370 hours total, and got all the achievements in both (until the Eternal update anyway), but I've never been able to get the hang of it in either Rebirth or Flash Isaac. In hindsight, I should have skipped the knife and kept Brimstone on its own, but I won easily anyway so it didn't really matter in the end.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 21:02

Vakal: May 11, 2008

Knife + Brim is awesome if you can pick up Spoon Bender with it.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 21:04

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

I think the Knife + Brimstone combo is good if you picked up Mom's Knife first, but not if you picked up Brimstone first. With Mom's Knife, if feels like additional damage, but going from Brimstone to a stream of knives feels like a downgrade.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 21:10

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 11:46

Vic Boss: Jan 19, 2007; You're pretty good.

The knife does the most damage if you can hit an enemy with it at a perfect distance. Limited (but not too limited) knife range is a very good thing. If you can perfectly stab It Lives! with the knife, it goes down real quick regardless of how powered up your knife is. If your knife passes through something, it does okay damage, and if it hits something on its return, it does little damage. It's especially fun to have a shield of some sort and go right up to late game bosses and just poke them.

I think the knife may be my favourite weapon because I love playing this game with flight and perfect knife throws. Goes through enemies like a hot something through butter.

# ? Jun 15, 2015 21:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

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