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Jul 1, 2015 05:44
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And of course the general case of everything he is saying is confirmed by our most reliable source of truth in the world: Snarls. We smell the same. We have already considered a lot of versions of reality very close to what Amok is saying. That one little moment and piece of information from Snarls would probably blow our mind.
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Jul 1, 2015 05:49
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Sogol posted:And of course the general case of everything he is saying is confirmed by our most reliable source of truth in the world: Snarls. We smell the same. We have already considered a lot of versions of reality very close to what Amok is saying. That one little moment and piece of information from Snarls would probably blow our mind. Yeah it's one thing for Amok to just say it and sow doubt, but Snarls is never wrong. This is the truth Ishamel has been trying to shield us from - not necessarily what we are, but what it implies.
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Jul 1, 2015 05:51
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Also interesting is what this suggests about past experiences where we've gained huge boosts from, essentially, worship. Like when we killed Battletoad. This guy set himself up as a god, and it looks like he did fairly well living off the worship he received. I don't think it follows that we are gods though, particularly if there is literal truth to El and the Melachim. Nor are we abominations. We do have it in us though to be great leaders of men, role models. Kinda like Superman.
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Jul 1, 2015 05:55
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Given everything that's happened, we might want to make a shrine to El and ask for guidance. We did have faith in him, but now we're a little lost and in need of guidance. This option also gives us time to think things through and sort our feelings out.
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Jul 1, 2015 06:03
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ElrondHubbard posted:Given everything that's happened, we might want to make a shrine to El and ask for guidance. I am not sure if the melachim council operating the El-power-boost-laser are going to be too into showing us any favour at the moment. Might be best to wait and see what happens with Amok's trip.
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Jul 1, 2015 06:07
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Travic posted:Oh I thought it was both a race and a title. Since he brings it up in relation to being called a Melachim. Speaking of which did anyone translate the word Melachim from Hebrew? Yeah. It's one of the books of the Bible. Do people not habitually translate the Hebrew in this game? ... do they not realize it's just Hebrew? (Amok was making a silly little pun. Diog has declined to comment on the etymology of "melachim" in Ur, as it seems to be used differently than it is on Earth. There was, just now, a mild argument over whether to use the term "melekh" (king) for things like Amok and Enkidel, or "Nephilim", which eventually settled on the latter as being more appropriate.)
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Jul 1, 2015 06:09
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Tsyni posted:I am not sure if the melachim council operating the El-power-boost-laser are going to be too into showing us any favour at the moment. Might be best to wait and see what happens with Amok's trip. Then they will tell us that we've hosed up and we'll know that we did a bad thing. I'm not convinced that our new pal is going to start a holy war just yet and I'd like to try to stay on the Melachim's good side since they've literally saved our lives multiple times. At the very least we could try using Azz's necklace to see if he has any input.
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Jul 1, 2015 06:16
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Hey Diog: We remembered to mention the demon we pushed into the pit and had our new BFF slide the large stone block in place, right? Cheers, Mango
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Jul 1, 2015 06:18
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Travic posted:Oh I thought it was both a race and a title. Since he brings it up in relation to being called a Melachim. Speaking of which did anyone translate the word Melachim from Hebrew? I don't know how the True Speech works, but "-im" denotes plurals in Hebrew if I remember correctly. Melekhim would be kings and Melachim is Kings. Or perhaps Melach is closer to Moloch: New World Encyclopedia posted:The Hebrew letters מלך (mlk) usually stand for melek or “the king,” and were used to refer to the status of the sacrificial god within his cult. Nineteenth and early twentieth century archaeology has found almost no physical evidence of a god referred to as Moloch or by any similar epithet. Thus, if such a god did exist, Moloch was not the name he was known by among his worshipers, but rather a Hebrew transliteration. The term usually appears in the Old Testament text as the compound lmlk. The Hebrew preposition l- means “to,” but it can often mean “for” or “as a(n).” Accordingly, one can translate lmlk as "to Moloch," "for Moloch," "as a Moloch," "to the Moloch," "for the Moloch" or "as the Moloch." We also find hmlk, “the Moloch” standing by itself on one occasion. The written form Moloch (in the Septuagint Greek translation of the Old Testament), or Molech (Hebrew), is no different than the word Melek or “king,” which is purposely improperly vocalized by interposing the vowels of the Hebrew term bosheth or “shameful thing.” This distortion allows the term to express the compunction felt by Israelites who witnessed their brethren worshipping this god of human sacrifices, and in doing so prevents them from giving noble status of "king" to what was for all intents and purposes, a false idol. Diogines posted:Melekh means "King". Given that you know "El ha melekh koh ha olam" means "El, King of the world.". Apparently Melachim and Melekh are entomologically similar, or sound similar anyway. So when Uriah said " Amok is a demon pretending to be a Melachim!" Amok said to you "No, but he is half right, I am not pretendkng to be a Melachim (they suck), though I am a king." Who knows?
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Jul 1, 2015 06:43
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Don't Anger Ishmael you guys.
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Jul 1, 2015 07:06
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People have this new world shattering information and the first thing they want to do is keep praising El? Wtf
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Jul 1, 2015 07:31
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El is obviously not real. Jebus. It's a well of a kind.
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Jul 1, 2015 07:43
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Diogines posted:"We imprisoned them but the burden was too great, we could not resist our foes, remain a great people and lock away our sons. And even without such troubles, time alone would doom us all, it is our nature. We searched and could find no solace and the Melachim turned from us. In despair, my sons sought to consume each other and our people. The Melachim watched and did nothing. When it was finished, I buried those who remained and went to sleep in hope an absent god would return." This is El/the Creator, and he returned. That is why Labaras and his sons did not succumb to Hunger. Amok did not recognize the name because we simply said El, not his actual name which we used against the Zviv. Which probably literally comes out as "the Creator" or some such thing.
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Jul 1, 2015 07:48
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Soylent green is people / El is recycled divinity
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Jul 1, 2015 07:55
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Laugh hysterically with tears welling in our eyes. This is all a lot to process for Enki, a whole life time of secrets thrown at him so haphazardly, all because he opened a box. It's in his character to have mixed emotions about the whole drat thing.
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Jul 1, 2015 07:56
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1. E (support for B and E really should be lumped together, since E is literally just a diplomatic plan for how to say B. If, hypothetically, these two together were to achieve majority but saying nothing still won by virtue of having the most votes for a single option, it would be grossly unfair) 2. A I'm disgusted but not surprised to see that, after we finally have some plot exposition to bring some life back to this trainwreck of bumbling-by-committee, some people are still voting to try to keep it under wraps so we can go back to nothing happening. Do you hate yourselves? Or do you just hate your fellow readers? Both?
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Jul 1, 2015 08:00
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I don't hate other readers or myself, I'm just not keen to set off a religious civil war while we're in the middle of nowhere AND before we've even had a chance to properly talk to Amok.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:06
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I'm voting CC, because I think Enkidel being stunned at all of this to the point of near-silence is the most in-character option.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:06
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Actually what offends me the most about the idea of keeping this secret isn't even whatever effect it might have on the path of the game, but just how loving dumb it is character-wise. This is starting to look like some lovely b-movie where problems are artificially created by characters not telling each other things that, in real life, people would've told each other immediately.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:08
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Cathair posted:Actually what offends me the most about the idea of keeping this secret isn't even whatever effect it might have on the path of the game, but just how loving dumb it is character-wise. This is starting to look like some lovely b-movie where problems are artificially created by characters not telling each other things that, in real life, people would've told each other immediately. what problem is fixed by telling our balls any of this really i can think of a bunch made
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Jul 1, 2015 08:10
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Cathair posted:Actually what offends me the most about the idea of keeping this secret isn't even whatever effect it might have on the path of the game, but just how loving dumb it is character-wise. This is starting to look like some lovely b-movie where problems are artificially created by characters not telling each other things that, in real life, people would've told each other immediately.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:10
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Cathair posted:Actually what offends me the most about the idea of keeping this secret isn't even whatever effect it might have on the path of the game, but just how loving dumb it is character-wise. This is starting to look like some lovely b-movie where problems are artificially created by characters not telling each other things that, in real life, people would've told each other immediately. Mate do remember that while we're a 9 foot muscle wizard with a refreshingly progressive outlook on civil rights and society, our Balls are not. They cling to their faith and if we drop this on them cold, without context or the full story, we run the risk of shattering their faith and loyalty. And as we've just discovered, their loyalty is Very Important to our species.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:11
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So, do you guys think that all the major demons are nephilim who succumbed to hunger and must now consume souls for power, or just Asherah?
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Jul 1, 2015 08:11
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also if i were real life enkidel i would not tell people that i am an abomination that, from what i just heard, are bound to become an unkillable demon one dayHorrible Lurkbeast posted:So, do you guys think that all the major demons are nephilim who succumbed to hunger and must now consume souls for power, i think Asherah is a Melachim in a similar situation
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Jul 1, 2015 08:13
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:So, do you guys think that all the major demons are nephilim who succumbed to hunger and must now consume souls for power, Makes sense. We haven't met Fare or whoever yet but the odds are good that's what happens to the captives from Tanaach we didn't rescue.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:13
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SKY COQ posted:Mate do remember that while we're a 9 foot muscle wizard with a refreshingly progressive outlook on civil rights and society, our Balls are not. They cling to their faith and if we drop this on them cold, without context or the full story, we run the risk of shattering their faith and loyalty. And as we've just discovered, their loyalty is Very Important to our species. This is important context.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:13
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Also worth noting: we may not be entirely doomed. Ishamel certainly hasn't been training us for decades just for us to turn into a hunger beast, and he very obviously knows both what we are and what we could potentially become. I think it's very possible that between Amok's carbonite moment and today, some method of control has been discovered.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:16
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SerSpook posted:Amok did not recognize the name because we simply said El, not his actual name which we used against the Zviv. Which probably literally comes out as "the Creator" or some such thing. I think the distinction between saying "El" and using the Power Word: El probably has something to do with inflection. Kinda like, you say a phrase, and depending on HOW you say it: "Well, this is just great.", for example. Depending on how you emphasize different words in that sentence, it's either a positive or sarcastic/negative statement.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:16
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SKY COQ posted:Also worth noting: we may not be entirely doomed. Ishamel certainly hasn't been training us for decades just for us to turn into a hunger beast, and he very obviously knows both what we are and what we could potentially become. I think it's very possible that between Amok's carbonite moment and pray, some method of control has been discovered. We were told to Bind the Eternal Hunger by Smythos even. Amok is acting on outdated information. The Creator is back, the Melachim no longer interfere that much or live among man openly, and we may be saveable.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:17
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Also, being 'stunned into silence' is another piece of histrionic roleplay bullshit that only ever happens to people in theater. I mean, anybody in real life who can be rendered mute at critical moments about extremely important poo poo is a phenomally useless rear end in a top hat. Granted, that is a fair description of Enkidel, but it would be nice if that were to change someday.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:17
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Cathair posted:Also, being 'stunned into silence' is another piece of histrionic roleplay bullshit that only ever happens to people in theater. I mean, anybody in real life who can be rendered mute at critical moments about extremely important poo poo is a phenomally useless rear end in a top hat. Which is why my preference is to essentially tell them "this is big, but I can't say how big yet." I do want to tell them! Just not yet.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:18
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the_steve posted:I think the distinction between saying "El" and using the Power Word: El probably has something to do with inflection. Nah, Tudiya said we said El's name in the language of the Melachim, not that we said it in a certain way. Otherwise we'd probably have Power Word: El happening all of the time? quote:As you almost finish the second character, he tells you stop. "Do not finish it. It is the name of El in the tongue of the Melachim."
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Jul 1, 2015 08:20
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SKY COQ posted:Also worth noting: we may not be entirely doomed. Ishamel certainly hasn't been training us for decades just for us to turn into a hunger beast, and he very obviously knows both what we are and what we could potentially become. I think it's very possible that between Amok's carbonite moment and today, some method of control has been discovered. Ishamal has been teaching Enkidel the bare minimum to keep him alive and prevent him from accidentally killing himself, and often not even that much. It's equally likely that he's just taking pity on Enkidel because the only other option is to kill/contain him right off the bat, and this way Enkidel could at least live for a good long while first. Sure, what you're saying is possible, but at this point you're just pulling it out of your rear end. There's nothing to base this on.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:22
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SerSpook posted:Nah, Tudiya said we said El's name in the language of the Melachim, not that we said it in a certain way. Otherwise we'd probably have Power Word: El happening all of the time? Well, the inflection would be more metaphysical/mental than actual pronunciation. Plus, as much as I love Tudiya, there is obviously a lot that he is kept in the dark about, or not given the whole story on.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:25
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Cathair posted:Ishamal has been teaching Enkidel the bare minimum to keep him alive and prevent him from accidentally killing himself, and often not even that much. It's equally likely that he's just taking pity on Enkidel because the only other option is to kill/contain him right off the bat, and this way Enkidel could at least live for a good long while first. And besides, even if they did, where do we go from here? Do we just leave Ur and strike out on our own, because Ishamal was such a liar and can't be depended on? Leave our old life behind?
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Jul 1, 2015 08:28
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the_steve posted:Well, the inflection would be more metaphysical/mental than actual pronunciation. The scene itself also never said we said El or anything, just that we spoke a word. And since we know that El means "god", and that there is an absent god that Amok believes could help him, I really think they are pretty clearly connected. Also, whatever is on Mt. Har, is a hell of a lot stronger than just about anything else we've ever felt.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:29
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SKY COQ posted:Also worth noting: we may not be entirely doomed. Ishamel certainly hasn't been training us for decades just for us to turn into a hunger beast, and he very obviously knows both what we are and what we could potentially become. I think it's very possible that between Amok's carbonite moment and today, some method of control has been discovered. Mount Har definitely seems like such a method. We've felt it's pull when we've been dying in the past. It also seems to be good at preventing regular blooded people from turning into hunger demons, and it's pretty obvious now that they are simply descendants of nephilim too. The question is, what happens to the souls that go there? Are they spared the torment we've seen, or is it just another prison out of sight? edit: Changing first vote to C. I'm still tempted to let them know everything, but I agree that we probably want to be careful about dropping that bombshell. If we do go down that route, I'd suggest we provide some context first, like telling them the true story of Taanach and its aftermath Rahul fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 08:30
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Cathair posted:Ishamal has been teaching Enkidel the bare minimum to keep him alive and prevent him from accidentally killing himself, and often not even that much. It's equally likely that he's just taking pity on Enkidel because the only other option is to kill/contain him right off the bat, and this way Enkidel could at least live for a good long while first. Look that is demonstrably not true. He's had the opportunity to kill or contain is several times and every time he's given us a choice and then supported it. He taught us skills that let us survive getting nuked AND he's prevented our well from overflowing. Yes he's been less than forthcoming with answers but given that traditional religious orthodoxy labels is an impossible abomination, I think we're starting to understand why.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:34
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For all of Ishmael's tight-lippedness, He is definitly working in our favour. Ish took great risks for us and deserves our respect. Also, spreading dissent at a time of mass daemonic predation is not a good idea.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:47
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