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In my neck of the woods toy stores tend to carry board games, but they don't really get into hobby board games except for ones that have started to become really mainstream like Catan. OTOH Barnes & Noble has a surprisingly good selection of board games, and displays them pretty prominently. Their selection of RPGs tends to be D&D, plus some Pathfinder and Fantasy Flight stuff, and RPGs tend to hang out over by the graphic novels, the only exceptions being boxed stuff like the new Gamma World.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:04
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jadarx posted:At my B&N, it's always been like that. 1 shelf with top half being video game guides and bottom half being DnD + other rpgs (usually FFG). I wouldn't mind so much if there was a decent game store anywhere around here.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:40
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Here we have a single big bookstore and it too has one shelf of D&D/Pathfinder and another shelf that is mixed between FFG/White Wolf stuff and computer game strategy guides. By far the biggest thing on those shelves are the Pathfinder card game box sets.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:42
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My local B&N had a respectable RPG selection until recently, but it was also pretty stagnant. D&D and Pathfinder each had most of a shelf, then there was an eclectic bunch of Fantasy Flight 40k, TOR, historical minis wargame manuals, Mutants & Masterminds, random WoD and Exalted stuff, and some other random poo poo. But you would see nearly the same collection every time you went over there, next to the manga corner, even if you only went once every few months. At some point this summer, they cleared out most of that stuff. Now there's half a shelf of mostly D&D and PF, the rest of that stand sharing part of the 1.5 cases of video game guides. It's still a bigger, more robust selection than the local game nerd store has had for quite a while. For a long time, there's been a pretty impressive board game section in the middle of the B&N, too. So the local game store really only seems to have play space, Magic singles, Warhammer 40k and comics going for it, barely. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 16:49
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This may be grognardy of me, but having those card games mixed in with ones that have actual miniatures and traditional RPG sets just irritates me. Card games in general just strike me as lazy on the part of the manufacturer and just generally depressing to be around. They're decks of card stock, why are they in big grandiose boxes that look like a high-end board game when they have more in common with the foil packs and playing card decks in the impulse buy aisle at a department store checkout?
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Jul 10, 2015 16:52
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An Angry Bug posted:This may be grognardy of me, but having those card games mixed in with ones that have actual miniatures and traditional RPG sets just irritates me. Card games in general just strike me as lazy on the part of the manufacturer and just generally depressing to be around. They're decks of card stock, why are they in big grandiose boxes that look like a high-end board game when they have more in common with the foil packs and playing card decks in the impulse buy aisle at a department store checkout? So you can store future expansion packs within the box. LCGs aren't an impulse buy, really.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:55
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An Angry Bug posted:This may be grognardy of me, but having those card games mixed in with ones that have actual miniatures and traditional RPG sets just irritates me. Card games in general just strike me as lazy on the part of the manufacturer and just generally depressing to be around. They're decks of card stock, why are they in big grandiose boxes that look like a high-end board game when they have more in common with the foil packs and playing card decks in the impulse buy aisle at a department store checkout? Yeah, the box for Sentinels of the Multiverse can hold the base game and two expansions, and between that and the Vengance box I can hold all the expansions and single-pack decks.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:00
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But there are absurd numbers of card boxes/holders/deck protectors available. Half of one of my LGSes is taken up by twelve hundred different types of boxes to put Magic cards into, and apparently that's somehow making them money. Why are these pieces of cardboard so much more popular? If you have a deck of cards it's still just card stock that was printed up in the industrial equivalent of a Kinko's. You didn't paint it, you didn't come up with a character, you didn't choose a model to represent anything, you just got a piece of paper that's identical to the ones everyone else has. What's appealing about that? Sure there's deck building and other sorts of strategy, but other types of games have strategy and so much more. Where's the personal connection, the story, the creativity? I try to play card games and end up just feeling stupid and irrelevant. I build and paint a model for a game and I feel like I've accomplished something. Someone plays D&D and they've created a character with a story and personal meaning. In contrast something like Magic feels almost belittling. You're just a person choosing cards, who can only do what the cards say and isn't even given the ability to create a coherent story in the process. RPG night is something I enjoy watching. Seeing the owners playing Magic every day just makes me feel sad.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:09
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I, too, am furious that the entire world doesn't share my tastes.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:12
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Why is this bound folio of paper much more popular?
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Jul 10, 2015 17:22
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Oh please. It's rules lawyering without the underlying plot. It's technicalities without the substance.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:24
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It's a pretty fun game that's easy to get into and collect
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Jul 10, 2015 17:26
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An Angry Bug posted:Oh please. It's rules lawyering without the underlying plot. It's technicalities without the substance. Maybe people think the card game is fun as you know an actual game. Shocker I know.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:26
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It is, and there's nothing wrong the quality of the cards or the art or anything, I just find it baffling that there's a Pathfinder Card Game right next to a Pathfinder RPG set for the same price, and the card game sells so much more, and sad that the model gaming section of the store has had the same stock sitting on the shelves for so long in comparison. They're playing Magic there literally every time I stop by to get some paint or a model kit, and I never see people there playing any of the games like X-Wing or Pathfinder or anything else. Warmachine up and died there before I even got into the hobby, but Magic and the rest do so well. Is $40 for an X-Wing starter set really such a high barrier to entry? 
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Jul 10, 2015 17:33
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An Angry Bug posted:It is, and there's nothing wrong the quality of the cards or the art or anything, I just find it baffling that there's a Pathfinder Card Game right next to a Pathfinder RPG set for the same price, and the card game sells so much more, and sad that the model gaming section of the store has had the same stock sitting on the shelves for so long in comparison. They're playing Magic there literally every time I stop by to get some paint or a model kit, and I never see people there playing any of the games like X-Wing or Pathfinder or anything else. Warmachine up and died there before I even got into the hobby, but Magic and the rest do so well. Is $40 for an X-Wing starter set really such a high barrier to entry? Some people engage games as games and the deckbuilding and optimizing is the fun part of magic and card games. Sometimes they do drafts and you have to do it on the fly! I mostly play minis games because they actually let you choose your force with points systems and are built around that, not because of the narratives or whatever. That's the dirty little secret of a game like 40k- that little optimization challenge probably helped it get huge but they really shy away from it as a company and it's probably why they're dying. That all being said, minis games are super expensive, especially in the beginning, and especially if you want to change things up and use that customization. The PF card game probably sells more because people know they can play it without getting a group of five nerds coordinated together and finding a willing DM who can make it fun. Think of Magic as the thing that lets your favorite game store stock miniatures and RPGs. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 17:43
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The Pathfinder card game actually does work best if you have a coordinated group who are willing to commit to a campaign. The box is the size it is because it's built to hold half a dozen expansion boxes, which you will buy to get the full campaign, and they want you to keep the boxes because not all the cards from them get put into the main decks right away, and you can remove cards from the main decks and put them back in their boxes. It also has storage for a bunch of player decks. It could be maybe 3/4 of the size of they didn't store the full expansion boxes though.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:49
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Wait, so it's an RPG in card format? Never mind then, that makes a lot more sense now. Thought it was more like Pokemon or something like that.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:00
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Why do so many people watch TV, when there are local theaters where they could go and get involved in an improv group or sign up to be in a play? Everywhere, community theater groups stagnate, while millions upon millions of people just sit there passively watching television programs! It makes no sense! Why are so many people just watching sports, when they could be playing sports?!? I don't understand why someone would want to eat food, when they could be cooking food. Eating something you prepared yourself is so much more satisfying than just eating whatever is served to you. Restraunts make even less sense, why would you pay so much extra just to have some other person give you a super-limited list of possible food to eat, and meanwhile, all around you there's other passive people just eating whatever that place has available. Every night! I go by these restaurants and every night there's all these sheeple in there just eating whatever. And yet a simple trip to the grocery store and a dedication of some time and effort to learn how to cook and you could literally be having anything you want. Team up with someone else and you can cook a delicious and rewarding meal together! Whyyyyy do people ride the bus, when they could be driving a car? I don't understand how people can own pets, when they could be putting on fursuits and pretending to be pets! What is going on with this crazy world???
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Jul 10, 2015 18:02
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An Angry Bug posted:I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON THINGS I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!
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Jul 10, 2015 18:02
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Oh are we doing that thing where we make up titles for the thread, or the subforum, or the forum?
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Jul 10, 2015 18:08
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An Angry Bug posted:It is, and there's nothing wrong the quality of the cards or the art or anything, I just find it baffling that there's a Pathfinder Card Game right next to a Pathfinder RPG set for the same price, and the card game sells so much more, and sad that the model gaming section of the store has had the same stock sitting on the shelves for so long in comparison. They're playing Magic there literally every time I stop by to get some paint or a model kit, and I never see people there playing any of the games like X-Wing or Pathfinder or anything else. Warmachine up and died there before I even got into the hobby, but Magic and the rest do so well. Is $40 for an X-Wing starter set really such a high barrier to entry? A lot of people just like having fun for an hour at a time without putting in a shitload of time creating stuff.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:11
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An Angry Bug posted:Wait, so it's an RPG in card format? Never mind then, that makes a lot more sense now. Thought it was more like Pokemon or something like that. Players start with a basic character deck. You play scenarios, and you can improve your deck and level up your character as you go. Each expansion adds a new set of scenarios based on the adventure path, some loot, NPCs, monsters and encounters that get added into the various decks you draw from during a session. It has issues, but it's pretty cool. Obsidian are doing a tablet port of it that will probably be less hassle to play, and definitely cheaper.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:20
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An Angry Bug posted:Oh please. It's rules lawyering without the underlying plot. It's technicalities without the substance. Some CCGs or LCGs are actually pretty good narrative generators; Doomtown, for example.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:21
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Magic, your most common card game, is much faster to set up and play than wargames or RPGs. The buyin to get playable is fairly cheap, even if to get good you are going to end up with a cost resembling a drug habit. The art is incredibly good, and if you care about the story they've got that ready for you to read and study, with materials that go far beyond the cards if you care to bone up on it, but it's not required to play the game, which is exceptionally well-designed and constantly being rebalanced and improved on for Standard. So...yeah, it's just cardboard, but it's cardboard used to play a game a lot of people really enjoy. The same is true of poo poo like Yu-Gi-Oh, though with less story, I understand, and more byzantine rarity rules.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:23
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In all seriousness, card games aren't RPGs. Most of the people who play those card games aren't doing so instead of playing RPGs. Some do both. They are nerdgames, though, so they get sold in a lot of nerdgame places, although you can also buy Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon at Target, Toys R Us, etc. too. The idea that card games are somehow inferior or supplanting tabletop RPGs is silly. Did RPGs supplant family boardgames? Monopoly and Life and even RISK had been around long before D&D was invented. Do you think Parker Brothers was all mad about D&D being sold in stores where people could buy Clue?
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Jul 10, 2015 18:28
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Clue really could use some more modern, inclusive iconics.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:40
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Bieeardo posted:Clue really could use some more modern, inclusive iconics. 
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Jul 10, 2015 18:49
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Wow, they really do all look like characters who are hatching a sinister plot against a young Michael Caine. Clue's sop to modernism is Col. Mustard taking off his safari hat.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:54
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An Angry Bug posted:This may be grognardy of me, but having those card games mixed in with ones that have actual miniatures and traditional RPG sets just irritates me. Card games in general just strike me as lazy on the part of the manufacturer and just generally depressing to be around. They're decks of card stock, why are they in big grandiose boxes that look like a high-end board game when they have more in common with the foil packs and playing card decks in the impulse buy aisle at a department store checkout?
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Jul 10, 2015 19:10
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Guilty Spork posted:My understanding is that card games (and to a lesser extent board games in general) have bigger boxes than they strictly speaking need because they tend to sell more copies for a higher price that way, even if the game could fit into a simple tuck box. Yup. It's not just card games, board games in general try to monopolize shelf space since, like, if your game is "just" two decks of cards and a handful of tokens in a tiny box how do you expect uninformed people to see it and think it's a good value compared to the giant box next to it? Some games are getting away from this and it's great news for consumer shelves and backpacks the world over, but it's a slow progress and a lot of times you get stuff like the "well duh people are just gonna buy three more expansions so we NEED the box to be big"
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Jul 10, 2015 20:31
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An Angry Bug posted:But there are absurd numbers of card boxes/holders/deck protectors available. Half of one of my LGSes is taken up by twelve hundred different types of boxes to put Magic cards into, and apparently that's somehow making them money. Why are these pieces of cardboard so much more popular? If you have a deck of cards it's still just card stock that was printed up in the industrial equivalent of a Kinko's. You didn't paint it, you didn't come up with a character, you didn't choose a model to represent anything, you just got a piece of paper that's identical to the ones everyone else has. What's appealing about that? Not everyone wants the "so much more." Even people who do want the "so much more" don't want it all the time. Having a specialized game to scratch a particular itch isn't particularly weird or depressing, and it's often very time efficient. Especially when you compare them to the time sinks that are full RPGs, where hours are lost to figuring out inane details that no one really cares about. But the GM isn't familiar enough with the rule set to judge if they can just excise all of it.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:01
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Also like I said, plenty of people do both. "Why do people like card games" is kind of a derail anyway. It's a patently stupid question that probably doesn't deserve so much attention.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:05
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Then let's change the topic! Is Wil Wheaton's Web Series "Titansgrave" The Perfect RPG Ambassador? I know a lot of people around here aren't Wheaton fans or like the AGE system, but the article does raise two good points: first off, there are Wheaton fans who don't play RPGs who might get started because of the series (which is a good thing), but also that people who start playing RPGs because of this game wouldn't be starting with D&D, which has traditionally been the entry point into the hobby.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:12
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Evil Mastermind posted:Then let's change the topic! I've been watching the Titansgrave series and it seems perfectly fine so far. They've got a pretty slick setup over there and the editing is well-done. Wheaton must be doing something right because someone I've never heard mention RPGs before asked me about Fiasco after watching the Tabletop episode of it, and recently played a game with some friends, which went pretty well apparently.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:14
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Countblanc posted:Yup. It's not just card games, board games in general try to monopolize shelf space since, like, if your game is "just" two decks of cards and a handful of tokens in a tiny box how do you expect uninformed people to see it and think it's a good value compared to the giant box next to it? Some games are getting away from this and it's great news for consumer shelves and backpacks the world over, but it's a slow progress and a lot of times you get stuff like the "well duh people are just gonna buy three more expansions so we NEED the box to be big" I'm not gonna lie, I do like it when a game box has room to stick expansion material in it. But more often than not you get a big box that somehow still winds up without enough room and so it's the worst of both worlds.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:15
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Evil Mastermind posted:Then let's change the topic! The whole package of art/music/professional voiceover with young, attractive professional actors playing the game is pretty good for ambassadorship, yeah. I guess it also helps that AGE still has dexterity and strength checks, too. On the other hand, ugh, AGE, ugh, boring fantasy races and ugh, Wil Wheaton's face. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 21:25
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I realize this is just anecdotal, but I've found that people who start gaming with something other than D&D tend to be more open to trying new systems. Something about D&D/PF seems to just lock people into that game (probably a sunk cost fallacy).
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Jul 10, 2015 21:35
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Lemon Curdistan posted:On the other hand, ugh, AGE, ugh, boring fantasy races and ugh, Wil Wheaton's face. If it helps, Wheaton gets eaten by a shark in the first five minutes of Sharknado 2
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Jul 10, 2015 21:40
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Evil Mastermind posted:I realize this is just anecdotal, but I've found that people who start gaming with something other than D&D tend to be more open to trying new systems. Something about D&D/PF seems to just lock people into that game (probably a sunk cost fallacy). It's an anecdote pretty much everyone I know also reports, so I'm pretty sure it's not just you. The problem is that AGE is still too close to D&D for comfort, really. It'd be better starting people off on Monsterhearts or Apocalypse World (or Dungeon World, if you want to show RPGs that look like what non-RPG-players think RPGs should look like).
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Jul 10, 2015 21:46
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Lemon Curdistan posted:It's an anecdote pretty much everyone I know also reports, so I'm pretty sure it's not just you. The problem is that AGE is still too close to D&D for comfort, really. It'd be better starting people off on Monsterhearts or Apocalypse World (or Dungeon World, if you want to show RPGs that look like what non-RPG-players think RPGs should look like). I don't think it would, actually. This is "earn your fun"-type nonsense.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:47
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