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It is through a Ford dealer themselves. I mean they expect people to be out of warranty within 4. years. They sell em on cars which pass a certain dealer inspection to be between 40-60k miles. I pulled it up again and everything is covered, some items I've never even heard of. You must pay $100. Maybe you guys are right though. It's basically what Ford gives you on CPO+extended.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:54
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Yinzer posted:Just curious how would the dealership, who would be selling me the warranty (they are underwriting it also), getting more profit down the road cause I do not plan on going to this dealer for service since they are out of state. Ah, I misread it at first - for some reason I thought they were charging you $100 for the warranty but had to go to them specifically. But, yes, it is too good to be true. Don't get me wrong, there are good warranties out there - I made the mistake of buying one through the Chevy dealership where I bought my used Miata (yes, really) and it was through GM. They never gave me a bit of grief when using it, and had no problem doing repairs for even the most minor poo poo... they replaced a radiator that had a pinhole in the filler neck that was so small, it would only build up a trail of dried coolant over the course of months. The only way I could have considered that warranty as 'worth it' was if I had assumed I would only ever pay top-dollar dealer rates for work every time, instead of taking it to an independent shop. They paid out every time but I still would've been money way ahead by skipping the warranty. Every once in a while a warranty makes sense - take that guy on Jalopnik with the Range Rover and the warranty that Carmax didn't charge him nearly enough for. But they've since raised their rates dramatically on their warranties, and if you give a poo poo about repair costs I sincerely hope you aren't buying a loving Rover. Yinzer posted:That's loving awful, its sad to know there are many people being taken advantage of because they don't know any better, not their fault you know? Depending on the dealership and salesperson it certainly can be their loving fault. A couple of friends of mine bought a used Prius, got an extended warranty, and then had the amazing 'luck' of actually getting a HV battery pack failure. They swore up and down that it was just fine because their extended warranty covered it, so I asked for the paperwork (which included the brochure from the dealership). Spent 30 seconds browsing through it and found that the salesperson had even helpfully circled the fact that the HV battery is not covered, even though it's pretty much the single most expensive repair a Prius can have. Luckily for them, it was still (barely) within the Toyota factory warranty on the battery. They're people who I certainly would expect to understand what they're doing and what they're getting into, but for whatever reason when "warranty" and "repair costs" come up, it is extremely easy to hear what you want to hear. Read that fine print very carefully, and realize that $2k would be better off placed in a savings account to pay for a repair, instead of buying a warranty that might not cover the repair. Yinzer posted:I mean they expect people to be out of warranty within 4. years. They sell em on cars which pass a certain dealer inspection to be between 40-60k miles. This "inspection" basically means someone traded it in, they took a look and didn't find anything horrifyingly wrong with it, and it has low enough mileage to meet Ford's criteria for selling the warranty. That's it. No mechanic spent hours lovingly poring over every inch of the car to ensure it is as close to factory spec as possible, no matter how much CPO marketing agencies try to convince you otherwise.
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Jul 15, 2015 17:04
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IOwnCalculus posted:This "inspection" basically means someone traded it in, they took a look and didn't find anything horrifyingly wrong with it, and it has low enough mileage to meet Ford's criteria for selling the warranty. That's it. No mechanic spent hours lovingly poring over every inch of the car to ensure it is as close to factory spec as possible, no matter how much CPO marketing agencies try to convince you otherwise. The inspection basically means looking over the car and seeing if it's possible to sell it as is without getting sued into oblivion. I've seen these "inspections" pass cars with 2mm left on the brake pads, with bald dry-rotting tires, coolant/oil/power steering leaks, you name it. The salesmen also just lie their asses off because as soon as the sale is made they get their money and now it's the service departments problem. 99% of them are bullshit artists. Of course they seem nice and straightforward, that's how they sell cars. The person who sells the extended warranties also gets a big commission check for each one sold, and I routinely hear them say things like "This is a bumper to bumper warranty. If ANYTHING goes wrong, just bring it in and it will be taken care of." Knowing full well they are selling a piece of poo poo warranty that is in no way worth it, and only covers a few things. It's really sad how corrupt the whole industry is and I am doing everything I can to get out of it. It pays well though  As someone said earlier, the brand name warranties (GM/Ford/Chevy/etc) are much better than the aftermarket warranties (Warrentech/CustomEdge/Zurich) , but there's still a TON of loopholes and I doubt they are worth the money unless you get lucky.  IOwnCalculus posted:Read that fine print very carefully, and realize that $2k would be better off placed in a savings account to pay for a repair, instead of buying a warranty that might not cover the repair.
RCarr fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 17:35
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kastein posted:
Pretty sure that's the engine in my neighbors POS car. He had a water leak that we ran down to a pin-hole in a little 90 degree plastic elbow. To replace that little fucker required a large part of the engine accessories to be removed, and the reason that they even needed the stupid elbow is that instead of just running a hose, they ran a water passage through the mount for the alternator, with the elbow connecting the alternator mount passage to the engine block. On the other side of the alternator mount passage, it became a regular hose. WTF? Just attach a loving hose to the outlet on the engine block and run it to the heater core or wherever that dumb line went (I forget).
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Jul 15, 2015 18:00
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about the Buick 3800 design...
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LeeMajors posted:This level of incompetent engineering makes me literally nauseous. Same for the Taurus 3.8L. There was barely enough room to slip the loving belt between the sheet metal and the pulley.
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Jul 16, 2015 03:28
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Thanks guys, no seriously I really appreciate it and I'm going to take your advice on putting that money aside. The dealer told me they have to rewrite the contract anyway since what they originally issued was for a new car. I know people here poo poo on dealer techs, but is there ever a time when you should take your car to a dealership? I was thinking probably the electronics. The car I'm looking to get is a '03 Grand Marquis and its gonna be due for the big 60k service. I figure have the dealer take care of that, then take it to my local mechanic for anything else. Or maybe just have my mechanic do the 60k stuff? He's very competent and the only guy I can trust to work on my car. In my mind the service center at a dealer "specializes" in my make, so I'm sorta torn between the two. The service advisor at my local dealer said they would do some sort of fuel injection cleaning that comes with that factory 60k maintenance and some other poo poo. It's probably some BS I don't know. I like to change out the fluids, filters, oil and coolant when I buy a used vehicle. Yinzer fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 12:55
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RCarr posted:The inspection basically means looking over the car and seeing if it's possible to sell it as is without getting sued into oblivion. I've seen these "inspections" pass cars with 2mm left on the brake pads, with bald dry-rotting tires, coolant/oil/power steering leaks, you name it. So I think I posted this at the start of this thread, but I bought a CPO 3 series that had supposedly been rigorously inspected. About 3 weeks later I brought it back for a window regulator issue and the stealership tried to ding me for a $1,000 (ha ha ha) brake job because the front pads and discs were "dangerously low". I guess that's how they pay for the free coffee.
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Jul 16, 2015 13:49
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Yinzer posted:The car I'm looking to get is a '03 Grand Marquis and its gonna be due for the big 60k service. You're literally buying a fancy cop car / cab. Extremely well documented, simple to work on. Any mechanic with most of a functioning brain can keep one on the road as long as you'd like.
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Jul 16, 2015 13:54
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IOwnCalculus posted:You're literally buying a fancy cop car / cab. Extremely well documented, simple to work on. Any mechanic with most of a functioning brain can keep one on the road as long as you'd like. Yeah I hear you, I have a Crown Vic that's about to hit 200k but a relative is buying it from me. I just love driving those cars. Well I guess that will save me the $600 dollars I was going to spend at a dealership. I've never bought a used vehicle under 100k miles before and wanted to take as many precatuions as I can.
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Jul 16, 2015 13:59
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mariooncrack posted:Was that a third party warranty? I've been told that all third party warranties are scams. Anything from the manufacturer send okay. I had good luck with my warranty on my cpo Altima. Warranty was through Nissan themselves. From the explanation I've been given they pretty much are
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Jul 16, 2015 14:06
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Godholio posted:Same for the Taurus 3.8L. There was barely enough room to slip the loving belt between the sheet metal and the pulley.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:11
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Yinzer posted:I know people here poo poo on dealer techs, but is there ever a time when you should take your car to a dealership? I was thinking probably the electronics. In my experience (Buick/GMC dealership), the time it pays to bring your car to the dealership is with electrical issues. But it all depends on how good your outside mechanic is. I've seen a lot of customers spend hundreds of dollars on outside shops swapping parts, when it turns out the issue was a broken/frayed/pinched wire that can be fixed in an hour or two. It also depends on the technicians in the dealership. Where I work we have one "A" tech who is outstanding. He has literally never had a comeback, is very honest (doesn't push useless services or lie about things needing repair, etc), and works efficiently. Then we have a few "A/B" techs who can do the big jobs (engines, transmissions,etc) but gently caress up a fair amount of the time, and see a decent amount of comebacks. They also like to bullshit and try to sell stuff that's completely unnecessary. (Brake jobs when there's 40-50% of the pads left, useless fluid services, etc). Then there's a bunch of kids and rejects that can't fix anything and if you are unlucky enough to have one of them end up working on your car you are definitely going have to come back because they can't fix poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:11
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Yinzer posted:Yeah I hear you, I have a Crown Vic that's about to hit 200k but a relative is buying it from me. I just love driving those cars. Pretty sure 60k service on a Panther is just spark plugs and fluids, take it to your mechanic and don't even worry about it. Panthers are so easy to maintain my 7 yr old could do it.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:52
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Took my 2015 Honda Fit with 7k miles in for a check engine light, dealer sees a code for #3 cylinder misfire and gives the car right back saying its probably bad gas. 3 weeks later after filling up from a different gas station, same code comes back. What I thought was going to be a quick fix turned into 3 weeks of them scratching their heads and waiting for Honda corporate to tell them what to do. The most frustrating part was that getting information from the service writer was like pulling teeth - I'd ask if they swapped coilpacks around to see if the misfire follows and couldn't get a straight answer. When I pressed him on this to actually give me a real answer, I got a lot of attitude and a super-patronizing "I can find out for you if you'd like sir". Adding to the delays were the dealer's inability to procure tools for service - they lost a day looking for the right spark plug socket and had to borrow one from the regional honda training center. After weeks of swapping parts they had to order a new head, and then couldn't figure out the cam alignment so there goes another day. Repair order was 6 pages long of solid text and I was not surprised when it completely contradicted what the service writer told me was happening. In the end the new head fixed it and I'm not sure what I could have done differently as far as DIY or independent shops to cut out the fuckery. I don't think I'm the only one with this problem though, it looks like the lead time for a replacement head is 3 months 
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Jul 16, 2015 16:28
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While I don't disagree that how they handled that (and moreso, handled you as a customer with effectively still a brand-new car) was pretty poo poo, I do bet that Honda probably makes them go through some extremely thorough diagnostics. There are very few reasons a car with that few miles should need a new head. 
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Jul 16, 2015 16:37
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IOwnCalculus posted:While I don't disagree that how they handled that (and moreso, handled you as a customer with effectively still a brand-new car) was pretty poo poo, I do bet that Honda probably makes them go through some extremely thorough diagnostics. There are very few reasons a car with that few miles should need a new head. I can say with certainty that they do. Just as an example for our cars you'd have to go through a bunch of test plans and then call in and get a case number and then go through some more testing and then they'll give you the green light if you still need to keep moving forward
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Jul 16, 2015 16:45
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How the gently caress can techs not have a spark plug socket? Don't tell me there's a special plug socket for Fits. Sounds like the typical incompetent service department with rear end in a top hat service writer to me.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:18
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There's probably a better chance that the service writer had no idea what was actually being done. You'd be surprised how often the mechanics won't explain what's happening to the writer, or will flat out lie about it. Also keep in mind that the majority of a service writer's day is getting screamed at by customers for things they A) Are not involved in B) Have no control over
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Jul 16, 2015 17:25
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leica posted:How the gently caress can techs not have a spark plug socket? Don't tell me there's a special plug socket for Fits. This is literally exactly what went through my head.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:58
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RCarr posted:There's probably a better chance that the service writer had no idea what was actually being done. You'd be surprised how often the mechanics won't explain what's happening to the writer, or will flat out lie about it. Also the writers are really busy and don't follow up with every little thing because they don't have the time
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Jul 16, 2015 18:13
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Yeah when I was dealing with some bullshit at a dealer for my brakes, the service writer at one point offered to take me into the shop to show me something. Mechanic was nowhere to be found. I really would have liked to hear that guy's explanation on how you bleed brakes without opening the caliper bleed screws.
jamal fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 18:16
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RCarr posted:There's probably a better chance that the service writer had no idea what was actually being done. You'd be surprised how often the mechanics won't explain what's happening to the writer, or will flat out lie about it. Bullshit, service writers know exactly what the gently caress is going on at all times, it's what they get paid to do. If they don't know what's going on it's their fault, not the techs. If a tech can mislead a service writer that just means he's an idiot and it doesn't excuse it. I've worked at dealerships and have friends that are techs. Service writers are more often than not scumbags because you have to be a scumbag to do the job the way the dealership wants it to be done. It takes a certain type of individual to be a service writer, and it's not the moral and unselfish type. From my experience working for a Mazda dealership, the service writer is the puppet master and the techs are the puppets. If he needs them to play dumb that's what they do, if he needs them to make up a bullshit problem that's what they do, and if they can't figure one out he does it for them. Techs that can't roll with it get fired, service writers call the shots, period. [edit] tl;dr don't ever trust a service writer. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 18:48
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Nodoze posted:I can say with certainty that they do. Just as an example for our cars you'd have to go through a bunch of test plans and then call in and get a case number and then go through some more testing and then they'll give you the green light if you still need to keep moving forward Thats weird to me, we are given pretty much free reign over warranty jobs. We have to use "guided diagnostics" on the laptop and follow the steps but if i find something broke I don't have to ask anyones permission to replace it. Except a bus with <1000km on it with a dropped valve, I thought i better ask permission for that one. They didn't want us to repair it and straight up sent out a factory new engine (circa £25-30k) They were even nice enough to follow up and let me know what had failed after it got sent back and torn down. I think our dealership must be one of the nice ones, we hand out any service info to anyone who asks, lend out our manufacturer special tools and try and get the customers goodwill from headoffice on anything out of warranty on big jobs. I have never seen a tech or service guy upsell anything.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:19
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warcake posted:Thats weird to me, we are given pretty much free reign over warranty jobs. We have to use "guided diagnostics" on the laptop and follow the steps but if i find something broke I don't have to ask anyones permission to replace it. I'm talking about something such as replacing a cylinder head or like an ECU. Things that don't usually just break, especially at low miles
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Jul 16, 2015 19:27
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leica posted:Bullshit, service writers know exactly what the gently caress is going on at all times, it's what they get paid to do. If they don't know what's going on it's their fault, not the techs. If a tech can mislead a service writer that just means he's an idiot and it doesn't excuse it. I'm a service writer and I can tell you that's not the case here. I'm sure it's different from place to place as with all things, though. I write probably 40-50 cars a day. It's not humanly possible to know what's going on with all of them. I have a hard enough time remembering the name of the customer I wrote up a half hour ago. The phone rings literally non-stop. Every single problem in the dealership funnels down to the service department. It is a constant poo poo show of multi-tasking and being in complete loving panic mode, literally 90% of every day. I agree that service writers are probably mostly scumbags. I'm not. I take pride in not ripping off little old ladies who come in. I don't sell all the bullshit B.G. fluid services unless a customer requests it. I don't jack up labor times. I give discounts when I am able. I'm not going to be lovely person just so I can make an extra $100 a week or whatever. gently caress that. The dealership I work at has the exact opposite writer/tech relationship as you had. The techs are all in the union. They are untouchable. There are union reps who's entire jobs are to come fight tooth and nail to make sure a tech is not fired. I've had tech's do unthinkable things. poo poo I will not even go into detail about because it is so wrong/stupid/unprofessional/lazy. These same techs have been working at this dealership for 3+ years since I started working here. The only techs that leave are the ones who quit to go somewhere that pays more. Edit: Had to cut this short but I'll go into more detail when I get some time.
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Jul 16, 2015 22:02
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RCarr posted:The dealership I work at has the exact opposite writer/tech relationship as you had. The techs are all in the union. They are untouchable. Yeah big difference here, no unions (Florida) so the techs are pretty much at the mercy of the service writer, so it's a revolving door with very few long term techs. Good on you that you try to do things right, but you're the exception to the rule tbh, especially down here. I've never met a service writer that wasn't a loving snake in the grass.
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Jul 17, 2015 00:03
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Here's a good one: In 1988 my dad bought a Grand Prix. The '88s were a major design change, streamlined design, digital instrument cluster, the whole nine yards. For the next year he dealt with the biggest piece of poo poo I have ever known about. There were times where, less than a few months after purchase, we would be taking this car in every two weeks. The dealer was not exactly honest. They had screwed him on the trade-in, a 1981 Bonnville by saying they would give $1500 and on paper that translated to $500. Shitbags all around. Anyway, my parents were not savvy with the car buying process and, pre-internet, I suppose that was a less informative situation. So my dad dealt with much of the crap that's been discussed; techs taking the car to lunch for example. But literally every time it would leave the dealer something else would malfunction. I remember once when mom picked it up and and we didn't get more than five miles out when the goddamn digital speed-o suddenly went berserk and stopped working. For every problem that piece of poo poo had it seems that the dealer would gently caress up something on the side. All under warranty of course. Eventually dad was sick of it. Dad was (not so much anymore) somebody who wrenched on their car. He ordered the $100 service manual and started wrenching on the thing himself. My folks drove it to something 220K miles after dad took matters into his own hands. After a lifetime of dealing with cars without bullshit, having to physically jack the engine block forward to change the plugs was a bit of a shock. We sold the car to the parents of some chick who eventually appeared on American Idol. It turned out to be a good car after we stopped with the loving dealer. The revelation: After nearly a decade (yes, Dad didn't gently caress around with poo poo like "leases" and cars he couldn't wrench on) the front right quarter panel was distinctly orange while the rest of the car was still a deep red. He's pretty sure those fuckers sold him a car that had been in accident and never disclosed. Funny part is when looking at the records nearly every thing that failed on that car was on the right side. Ed Schmidt, Perrysburg, Ohio. gently caress them forever.
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Jul 17, 2015 00:47
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leica posted:
I've been a service writer for a decent sized independent shop for the last two months, and I have to disagree with that tl;dr. I have never misled a customer and never will. Lying to the customer will get you fired where I work. I do no controlling of the techs and never force them to act a certain way. Our techs aren't union, but they are all professionaIs and act like such. All of they have been there for over a year, and one has been there for four years.I will agree that there are scumbag writers out there, just like there are scumbags in every profession that has ever existed. I like helping the customer through the process of making their car run better. Much like RCarr, I too like saving people money when I can. Not all of us are bad, I promise.  I will say gently caress most dealerships though, but the good ones are a joy to work with.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:25
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My bad, I meant dealership service writers, I know some good indy shops with good people running them.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:32
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Yeah indy shops don't have the throughput of customers that dealerships do, and also usually have the luxury of not being run by complete and utter assholes. I love the service writer at my shop. She honestly knows more about cars than I do and will always explain exactly what is wrong and whether or not it's worth fixing.
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Jul 18, 2015 13:40
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Since dealerships & warranty issues have recently been talked about, here's a question....... I picked up a new '15 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring last weekend. My first Honda ever, for that matter first 'non-domestic'. So far I'm still in the honeymoon stage, other than trying to figure out the drat Nav/Text/Voice/Electronic setup I love it. I purchased about 3 hours away, so I'll never have to deal with my selling dealership again. (Which is good, as I got almost 5k off sticker on the exact car I wanted, that had only been on their lot six days - 6/15 build date sticker, woot. But had to fight like hell to get that deal). I did not even consider purchasing the factory Honda Care warranty from them, as I can get an 8yr/120k from the couple of online dealers for around $1200. Does Honda take care of their techs when it comes to potential warranty issues & Honda Care, or do they screw them over? I'm not worried about the majority of the hybrid components due to their decent initial warranty, but ALL those drat electronics do concern me, (especially on a car design that's only in it's second year, without any long-term data on potential issues).
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Jul 18, 2015 17:01
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What do you mean by "take care of their techs"? Are you a Honda tech?
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Jul 18, 2015 17:03
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RCarr posted:What do you mean by "take care of their techs"? Are you a Honda tech? I think he's curious if the techs are going to get paid enough to give a gently caress about his car - warranty work often doesn't pay the same as that same job as a customer pay
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Jul 18, 2015 17:50
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My anecdotal contribution: If you find a shop that does good work for a fair price, keep going back. More likely than not that shop will be an independent. With some exceptions, I've generally found dealerships fit that criteria on cars that are 1) makes they sell, 2)are under a factory/factory sponsored extended warranty, 3)within a couple of generations of the models they're currently selling. Outside of one of those parameters, their quality tends to diminish and their prices become unreasonable. I've also found that the overall condition of the vehicle plays a secondary factor -- if your car is filthy inside and out or in long term disrepair, your experience is likely to be costly and unpleasant regardless of the shop. At least where I live, and from my experiences, the Honda and Toyota shops are great places to get ripped off and treated with disdain if you don't bite on their exorbitant 'service packages'. Lexus and Acura service departments here won't even put you on the repair schedule without a credit card on file. And forget about coming in without an appointment. GM/Ford dealerships here are hit or miss -- I've had bad experiences at one Chevrolet dealership, had great experiences (and paid dearly) at one Cadillac dealership, currently have a great relationship with a Chevrolet/Buick/GMC dealership on the outskirts of town. In a twist, I've had bad experiences with the Ford dealerships on the outskirts of town, pretty good experiences with the ones in the city. There's one great Mazda shop -- so great, that up until recently would rent out their lifts on Saturday weekends (with signed insurance waivers). There's one awful conglomerate that sells Audi/VW/Porsche/Mitsubishi/Mazda/Kia/Hyundai/Chrysler/Ram/Dodge. Other than Mazda, they're the only dealership game in town for those makes. Everything they do is ridiculously overpriced, and from my experience, the quality of work and services provided. Fortunately there are a metric poo poo-ton of independents that specialize those specific makes that do very high quality work for way less.
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Jul 18, 2015 17:56
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Well my friend who is a mechanic at a local Dodge dealership tells me that Dodge only pays 8/10 to 5/10 the hour rating of warranty jobs and other fuckery. Maybe he's referring to that. Friend says he loses his rear end doing warranty work.
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Jul 18, 2015 18:41
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At the GMC Dealership I work at, warranty pays about 70% of what a customer pay job would. However I have never once seen a technician overlook an issue or anything like that because it's under warranty. I don't think that's something you have to worry about. I can safely say they treat warranty and customer pay jobs pretty equally. They aren't going to work any faster/harder/more carefully on a customer pay job than they would on a warranty job.
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Jul 18, 2015 19:36
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CountOfNowhere posted:I think he's curious if the techs are going to get paid enough to give a gently caress about his car - warranty work often doesn't pay the same as that same job as a customer pay Yup, that's where I was going with my question. Thanks to the responses above. (Would be nice if manufacturers paid standard rates, and/or the dealers supplemented the rate paid). A coworker's husband works at a Cadi/Buick dealership as a tech, and their owner is pretty 'progressive'. He's in the process of implementing a flat salary for his tenured techs, whether busy or slow, always the same check. He's apparently aiming to pay enough that he won't lose the seasoned guys to gigs that might pay a tad more, as well as upping their benefits and such. Curious to see how that works out for them.
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Jul 19, 2015 00:09
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Coredump posted:Well my friend who is a mechanic at a local Dodge dealership tells me that Dodge only pays 8/10 to 5/10 the hour rating of warranty jobs and other fuckery. Maybe he's referring to that. Friend says he loses his rear end doing warranty work. Yep, and it's a constant battle with techs about who does and doesn't do it. The old timers obviously don't have to because seniority and being busy with the big jobs, and the grease monkeys can't do it, so it's the guys in the middle that get hosed. That's why working flat rate at a dealer is so loving horrible, you lose your rear end on warranty work just trying to get ahead until the old timers retire and good luck with that because some of them work until they loving croak in the garage.
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Jul 19, 2015 01:46
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I think it's interesting that flat rate is so cruel, I have a good friend that was a toyota tech for 5 years and he loved flat rate and warranty work. When the floor mat recall came through he was making 15 hour days. Either he is just an extremely talented tech or Toyota has friendly book times, or he had a service writer that loved him, but he liked flat rate.
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Jul 19, 2015 02:02
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Toyota had some recall on their trucks where the entire frame had to be replaced. It paid something like 25 hours per truck and I knew a dude doing 2 or more a day. There's certainly times when warranty work pays off big time.
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Jul 19, 2015 02:16
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