|
Yeah, obviously my depression had real life causes, cause like Opop I went through some poo poo this year that is very easily identifiable as POSSIBLE CAUSES OF DEPRESSION. I didn't go on any medication to help get me out of it, but my mother did and it was absolutely the right thing to do for her. She also saw a therapist for a while too. I've been on mood altering medication before too for other very obvious real world causes and I think it's a fantastic tool that shouldn't be ignored just as much as it shouldn't be abused. Sometimes you can't deal with your poo poo with the power of thought and therapy alone. Maybe it started as a bad real life situation, but it may have changed. Events in your life can alter your brain chemistry so just cause you know the original cause of something doesn't necessarily mean anything when your brain is all hosed up from being in a bad way for a long time. Direct marketing is bullshit though.
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:35 |
|
|
Asiina posted:Yeah, obviously my depression had real life causes, cause like Opop I went through some poo poo this year that is very easily identifiable as POSSIBLE CAUSES OF DEPRESSION. I didn't go on any medication to help get me out of it, but my mother did and it was absolutely the right thing to do for her. She also saw a therapist for a while too. I've been on mood altering medication before too for other very obvious real world causes and I think it's a fantastic tool that shouldn't be ignored just as much as it shouldn't be abused. Sometimes you can't deal with your poo poo with the power of thought and therapy alone. Maybe it started as a bad real life situation, but it may have changed. Events in your life can alter your brain chemistry so just cause you know the original cause of something doesn't necessarily mean anything when your brain is all hosed up from being in a bad way for a long time. Yeah this is a good post, pretty much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 18:47
|
|
|
GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:Where do you draw the line between "you're having a bad run lately" and "your brain now needs help chemically righting itself"? I think one leads into the other generally. Do I think doctors try to push pills on people who don't need them? Yeah, I definitely do. Do I think it's easy to tell if someone is depressed? Hell no. I draw the line at diagnosing someone with a brain disease based on self reported emotional symptoms. You can talk to me about biological brain illness when the diagnostic criteria involves labs and microscopes and chemical levels rather than arbitrarily drawn lines and "how many days per month do you feel sad?" And that's why I'm going into neurobiology.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 18:58
|
|
|
snip
EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
Look Under The Rock posted:I draw the line at diagnosing someone with a brain disease based on self reported emotional symptoms. You can talk to me about biological brain illness when the diagnostic criteria involves labs and microscopes and chemical levels rather than arbitrarily drawn lines and "how many days per month do you feel sad?" Soooo you want to physically see the chemical imbalance before you treat for it. That's fair enough, I guess, but there are a lot of really sad people out there that could be one way or the other and people with run-of-the-mill daily sadness are probably going to need a treatment just for the well being of society, too. Oh, and your comment there is a little mean!
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
I once saw this pickup truck that was plastered with bumper stickers and even like stuff that was printed out and taped to the back windows that was all about how psychiatrists are killing the children and how psychiatrists have agendas. There was also tons of anti abortion pictures of aborted fetuses. I called it the tinfoil truck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:09
|
|
|
The Tournament of Heroes needs one more player and then I can write up and send the PMs. Also, yuming and QuoProQuid, please check your PMs because I am an idiot.
EXAKT Science fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jul 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:12
|
|
|
GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:Soooo you want to physically see the chemical imbalance before you treat for it. That's fair enough, I guess, but there are a lot of really sad people out there that could be one way or the other and people with run-of-the-mill daily sadness are probably going to need a treatment just for the well being of society, too. What's mean about it? Brains are weird and I have yet to see a study proving that chemical imbalances have an effect on mental health that didn't 1) start from an incredibly flawed sample group, 2) skew results in a pretty unethical way or 3) 1 or 2 coupled with being funded by companies that have a vested interest in proving the legitimacy of the chemical imbalance model. Independent studies have shown that levels of serotonin and dopamine vary from person to person and don't even have any correlation with mental health diagnoses. Put simply, there are as many people without depression who have low serotonin as people with depression who have low serotonin. So yes, I want to see chemical imbalances, I would like solid evidence that we are treating brain illnesses if we're going to keep calling them illnesses. Did you know schizophrenic patients have a far greater chance of achieving recovery if they are never exposed to antipsychotic drugs? Did you know antipsychotic drugs literally cause brain damage to the frontal lobe? I don't want to turn the Mafia Discussion Thread into the Bash Psychiatry Hatin' Station, I keep responding because I care passionately about this issue and people keep it going but if people are getting annoyed we can take this it of the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
snip
EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
EccoRaven posted:tangentially related: ~*LITTLE BRAT*~
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:23
|
|
|
EccoRaven posted:smoke is bad for your lungs eat it instead Weed edibles just make me want to lay down and not do anything. Vaping is an alternative, but I think they are saying that while it reduces the tar in your lungs smoking causes, it still has the same issues with regard to emphasema and stuff like that. My take is I'd rather enjoy life and die young, than be miserable for a really long time, and then more miserable as a old phogie that doesnt smoke weed
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
Do you know why they call it pot? Because it has the POTebtial to kill you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
CCKeane posted:Do you know why they call it pot? Because it has the POTebtial to kill you. Do you know why they call it weed? Because weed all like some right now, thanks
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
You know why they call it dope? Because you're a big dope if you don't smoke it!
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
snip
EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
Look kids, I know you all want to shoot up bongs and smoke brownies and rub ol' weed all over your gums but narjiuana is the leading cause of all violent crime in the united States.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
Look Under The Rock posted:What's mean about it? You seem to take issue with the entire diagnosis system we have in modern medicine, and you know what, I'm going to surprise you and say that I agree. I think that when people make these drugs that they really are attempting to address an ailment. The breakdown is after that and Big Pharma markets them and tries to get as many people taking the medicine rather than focusing on the people directly affected. The problem is that the way we currently diagnose people in general is based on what the patient tells the doctor. There are of course many things doctors can directly test for and there are also judgment calls a doc can make as to if someone does or doesn't need a regimen but it seems to me that the reason for the loose prescription book hand is that it's better to treat someone for something they don't have than to not treat someone for something they do have. If we can, in the future, find a way to more precisely diagnose patients with depression and other mood-related illnesses (if, as you say, they are even that) then I'd be all for waiting for a test. The problem is we have nothing to say it isn't an illness yet and in the reverse we find supporting evidence. As for the Schizophrenia thing, unfortunately we are not very advanced medically and until we have a more complete understanding of disease and the medicines we use to treat it, the nastier the side effects will be. The brain is mysterious and I'd like to think that every patient (or the families of) being treated for such things is advised of how shot-in-the-dark treatment is these days. Diqnol fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
I'm sad all the time and when I'm not sad I have trouble being happy so I take brain drugs because otherwise I'm not a very pleasant person.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
Drugs - mostly illegal ones - have greatly improved my life. My objection is mainly to the fact that the US manages to have the biggest Pharma market in the world while simultaneously hosting the War on Drugs, and no one seems to question it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:As for the Schizophrenia thing, unfortunately we are not very advanced medically and until we have a more complete understanding of disease and the medicines we use to treat it, the nastier the side effects will be. The brain is mysterious and I'd like to think that every patient (or the families of) being treated for such things is advised of how shot-in-the-dark treatment is these days. I'd like to think that too, but mainly they are not. Every person I know who has gone into treatment for recurring psychosis has been told that they must take drugs for the rest of their lives (a comparison to insulin for diabetes is common). Some have been court ordered to take drugs that are actively harmful to them because of an allergy or because they just didn't respond well. Side effects of antipsychotic drugs include blood sugar issues that can include drug induced diabetes, the brain damage creates permanent decrease of motor control (tardive dyskinesia), loss of motivation and energy, mental fog, etc It's easy to talk about this stuff wrt depression but there is so much unethical poo poo going on once you change focus to the effects of the system on patients with psychosis or mania as they are vulnerable to forced treatment and reduction of agency that depressed people aren't subjected to on the same level. Abuse of psychotic patients is rampant, and again, the first line of defense in the current model of treatment is a course of action that lessens the chances of a psychotic patient regaining function. It's important to remember there's a bigger picture than just depression at work here, since antidepressants (and stimulants like Ritalin) can induce mania and psychosis, especially in young patients.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
I'm depressed about jesters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
could be worse I probably could use some anti-depression meds but I'm also terrified of ego annihilation I probably should just put on some Tangerine Dream and smoke a bowl but I've got hosed up lungs from asthma so I don't smoke and also I've only gotten temp and seasonal work since I got laid off some years back, which means I might get a job interview at basically any point that would require a piss test so edibles are out anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
I love this discussion  In my field, brain issues are diagnosed primarily by a combination of clinical judgement and standardized assessments (I am speaking to language disorders primarily, here.) Even if there is actual measurement of brain structures, which would be the case with TBI/strokes, treatment is guided by behavior and impact on an individual's life. In the schools specifically, I consider language disorders a Big Deal because they are a brain-based but many people just think the kid is dumb and these kids end up in prison at a disproportionately high percentage. The parallel I see to mental health is that my field is kinda invisible and hard to access, and that behavioral therapies that legit rewire brains and help both of these kinds of problems are not valued/easy to access because of the structure of insurance reimbursement and the influence of pharmaceutical companies. Things that are easier/faster (pills) or cheaper (not reimbursing/funding language therapy when it's proven effective) are the norm. I absolutely agree that we need better ways of diagnosing, and in the case of mental health throwing pills at problems in dangerous. But my focus in my field is in improving the quality of and availability of treatment. Because of how nuanced diagnosis and treatment planning can be, you end up with some quacky poo poo going on that is heavily influenced by decisions made by people who DO NOT KNOW YOUR FIELD. This leads to stupid speech-language pathologist facebook ladies running lovely ineffective 5 student language groups with students of varying severity levels and totally different treatment goals because ~I'll do anything for my students *martyr complex*~ My school contract was not renewed last year because I stood up against pressures from administration to simply not provide direct services to students who legally qualified for them. At all. I will say that again: I worked in a school that did not want to provide legally mandated therapy because administration wanted to save money. The same poo poo was going on with our social workers because they refused to hire more of them when they were desperately needed because the district is so high poverty. There is definitely a stigma still around mental illness, but school-based services are a crazy important because they can catch kids and their families that slip through the medical system or give them a soft start of therapy to ease them into seeking services elsewhere. It is a drat shame how poorly funded and undervalued these services are in our society. To go back to closer to LUTR's perspective of an individual seeking out services through the medical model and being met with this cold, drug pushing bureaucracy that does lovely things based on incomplete information-- I see the same issue. There needs to be a better way to funnel access to effective diagnostic and treatment options. Society needs to see the value in those services and WE NEED TO FUND THEM. Because of all the crazy red tape it is really hard to take theory into practice in this giant, muddy system. To make an actual career of fixing these messes likely means pissing off people who buy into the established system, and having the internal vision to stand up for your goals while working inside a framework that likely does not actively validate them and may drag you down against them. Like Asiina said with grad school, it's important to keep your end goal in sight and to be ruthless about going for opportunities for your own reasons because otherwise all your energy is going to be spent working on some project you don't care about because ~Ph.D politics~ and realize you're being groomed for a job you don't want and dropping out like my friend in a Special Education Ph.D did. I guess one thing I'd recommend is to look into the treatment side of things/check out related fields that diagnose and treat as their job. I don't know enough about diagnoses that involve mania to really have a clear picture of what goes on but from what you've said it sounds like there are issues across the whole chain of assessment, treatment, legalities and whatnot that need fixing. You'll be great at it, stand up to the (bigpharma) man, LUTR!! Hit him with knowledge and make him sorry~
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
does medical insurance cover medicinal marijuana
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
JakeP posted:does medical insurance cover medicinal marijuana Yeah, but you have to fake ADD and then find a drug dealer with a good Adderall/pot trade value. Just kidding.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:26
|
|
|
Oooo I just thought of another parallel. Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) is thrown around by people in my field who have NO loving CLUE what they're talking about. There are standardized assessments designed for use by speech-language pathologists (and possibly school psychs, idk for sure) that use the term auditory processing when in actuality only audiologists with training beyond their doctorate are qualified to diagnose. Misinformation is rampant in schools and that is Bad News. I mean drat lookit this list:quote:Instead, this listing serves merely as a guide for clinicians to the types of measures that are available for central auditory assessment. Yay Cool Science.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
JakeP posted:does medical insurance cover medicinal marijuana Medicaid covers half of the application/clinic fees in my state. Gorgeous posts yuming. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
Idk lutr. I was pretty non functioning until I got on a good medication for my depression. It wasn't a super solution that solved all my problems, of course, but it stabilized me enough that I now have the motivation, willpower, and ability to put effort into my own recovery.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
yuming posted:Because of how nuanced diagnosis and treatment planning can be, you end up with some quacky poo poo going on that is heavily influenced by decisions made by people who DO NOT KNOW YOUR FIELD This is a huge problem in a lot of fields, but ends up being particularly damaging in the case of health care options. From my whackier manufacturing background, the projects for consumer facing medical products were very often driven by marketing, which is bad and dumb. I've heard through the grapevine some even crazier stories from colleagues about the manufacture of higher class medical products (The You Do Not Want To gently caress Around With) type and you see similar behavior. When releasing a defective product or ignoring a struggling student becomes an actuarial decision, you lose kinda the while drat reason anybody does any work anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
In conclusion everybody should burn out dramatically and switch careers to making sure schoolchildren have safe and warm schools and napping at work is strongly encouraged.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:58
|
|
|
On the other hand why is it sometimes so hard to get drugs you actually need
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 20:59
|
|
|
So I sometimes wonder if I have ADHD. I'm 25. Is any doctor going to care enough to do something about it or should I not even bother?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:03
|
|
|
If you feel like it's impacting your life, then yeah, go see a doctor about it. My uncle only found out he had ADHD when he was in his 30s.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
I know somebody who looked into getting an ADHD diagnosis as an adult and the answer they got from the person qualified to diagnose them was "I don't believe ADHD exists in adults"
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
MMM Whatchya Say posted:I know somebody who looked into getting an ADHD diagnosis as an adult and the answer they got from the person qualified to diagnose them was "I don't believe ADHD exists in adults" what a lovely answer! Talk to your doctor and ask for a referral to someone who can do the testing. If they say no, find a mental health facility that will.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:10
|
|
|
I was kind of annoyed when I went to a psychiatrist saying I wanted to be evaluated for ADHD and she said that Bipolar 2/3 can mimic symptoms of ADHD and gave me mood stabilizers and didn't evaluate me for ADHD. Tbf though, the mood stabilizers worked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:12
|
|
|
Murmur Twin posted:Drugs - mostly illegal ones - have greatly improved my life. My objection is mainly to the fact that the US manages to have the biggest Pharma market in the world while simultaneously hosting the War on Drugs, and no one seems to question it. I've been saying this for years. The fact is that the US is a nation of drug users and always has been, so why are some drugs illegal? Plus it always baffled me that the government would just want to collect the money from drug sales tax. Or they should have jumped on the 'We'll provide safe drugs, you just give us money' train a long time ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:19
|
|
|
TMMadman posted:I've been saying this for years. The fact is that the US is a nation of drug users and always has been, so why are some drugs illegal? it's because the us is a nation of biblethumping prudes
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
Allen Wren posted:it's because the us is a nation of biblethumping prudes read this as biblehumping
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:35 |
|
|
GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:So I sometimes wonder if I have ADHD. I'm 25. Is any doctor going to care enough to do something about it or should I not even bother? Long term stimulant use is linked to decreased capacity to feel joy so yeah talk to your doctor about Adderall and enjoy your Celexa in five years Some people have difficulty with focus, some people have difficulty with hyperfocus, etc etc Why put a label on it and call it a disorder/illness? Anon brings up a good point about comorbidity btw -- sooo many diagnoses are so close in criteria that three different doctors could interpret the same symptom data as schizoaffective bipolar subtype, bipolar II, or depression with psychotic features. One of these results in a doctor telling you to give up on your previous idea of quality of life and that you can no longer trust your perception of reality, plus antipsychotics for life. The second gets you a possible prescription for a mood stabilizer that is actual an off label seizure medication with the potential to kill you within your first month of taking it, plus the added benefit of horrible stigma surrounding the behavior of bipolar people. The third gets you short term antipsychotics and long term prescriptions for PRN benzos, which are some of the easiest drugs to become dependent on, turn your memory to Swiss cheese and have been recently linked to early onset Alzheimer's even in casual users.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2015 21:34
|
|