|
Indie Rocktopus posted:One thing that Onion article nailed: the attack ads are going to be both highly entertaining and fascinating. Trying to engage with Trump is pointless - any Republican criticism of his policies starts with "maybe that sounds good, but it's not feasible," which is totally irrelevant to Trump's base, and leaves the aggressor wide open for Trump's barrage of populism and slander. You can't argue nuance with Trump. Trump obliterates nuance by his presence. At large enough sums, money has diminishing returns. For instance, this election you can basically assume that by the time election day arrives, all of the available ad space in every contested region in the country will be full.
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
Indie Rocktopus posted:We are in uncharted loving territory. Trump is absurd, but he's running against anemic opponents, in a party that screams for his brand of absurdity. Basically, I don't think we can take "he's going to get stomped out by the big donors" for granted anymore. I honestly have no idea how far he's going to go. Fox News will turn all their guns on Trump if it looks like he has even a remote chance at winning the nomination. They like him now, when the entertainment value and ratings outweigh the risk, but once the voting starts they'll be pushing viability hard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:12
|
|
|
IIRC the party delegates are not all legally required to vote based on primary outcomes. Isn't it possible that the delegates will just be instructed to back Bush, even if Trump wins a/some/all primaries?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:12
|
|
|
neonnoodle posted:IIRC the party delegates are not all legally required to vote based on primary outcomes. Isn't it possible that the delegates will just be instructed to back Bush, even if Trump wins a/some/all primaries? The risk of an actual Trump Party run would be too great if they tried the Ron Paul strategy in reverse on him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:17
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:Fox News will turn all their guns on Trump if it looks like he has even a remote chance at winning the nomination. They like him now, when the entertainment value and ratings outweigh the risk, but once the voting starts they'll be pushing viability hard. Old Man Murdoch's getting phased out of whatever role he once played in the day to day running of Fox. His sons are far more mercenary sorts of cretin than him, and I can only imagine the amount of coin they can milk out of giving the Donald whatever he needs to continue his dogged march to the White House.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
For the moment, it's more accurate to talk about the clown car candidates trying to distinguish themselves as Not Trumps, instead of Not Bushes. No one else has a tenth of the attention, branding, or momentum as The Donald.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:Fox News will turn all their guns on Trump if it looks like he has even a remote chance at winning the nomination. They like him now, when the entertainment value and ratings outweigh the risk, but once the voting starts they'll be pushing viability hard. Guns at what? What are you going to attack Trump on that isn't widely know at this point? Are you forgetting what a hard on these idiot conservatives had for Putin? You are forgetting just how much money Walker, Rubio and Jeb! have right now, they have opposition research on Trump like crazy, if they had the goods to shoot Trump down they would have done it by now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:27
|
|
|
My guess is that they're going to hit him hard in the debates about the fact he used to be really weirdly liberal, supporting weird huge taxes on the rich, universal healthcare (which he seems to still sort of support actually?) and giving 100k to the Hillary senate campaign among a lot of other liberal stuff. That will probably backfire, but it's really the only avenue of attack they have. That article in the National Review saying Donald is actually Obama was an early salvo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:31
|
|
|
Indie Rocktopus posted:
I'm not sure how uncharted this is tbh. Trump is tapping into a problem that the modern GOP has always had. Charismatic candidates who can access the inherent nativism and racism that's present in significant numbers of the republican base [see: old white people] will always pose problem in both rhetoric and taking votes away from the so-called "serious candidates." I really don't think Trump is the second coming of Goldwater, but he probably shouldn't be written off as easily as "serious political pundits" are attempting to do at the moment. He has massive media exposure, is very good at framing narratives that come out around him, and seems to have the pertinent skills in identifying what disenfranchised people in the party want to hear and finding a charismatic and effective way at saying it. The hilarious thing is that Trump's candidacy probably ultimately rests on what Trump actually wants. If his plan is to just continue jetting around the country spewing rhetoric and getting himself in the news, I imagine that he'll flame out sometime before Iowa. If Trump actually decides to build a good campaign apparatus... Basically I hope Trump is serious because if he is it will probably be amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:33
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:My guess is that they're going to hit him hard in the debates about the fact he used to be really weirdly liberal, supporting weird huge taxes on the rich, universal healthcare (which he seems to still sort of support actually?) and giving 100k to the Hillary campaign among a lot of other liberal stuff. That might backfire, but it's probably the only avenue of attack they have. That article in the National Review saying Donald is actually Obama was an early salvo. "I was wrong, those policies have clearly failed and Obama has destroyed America with them." Newt loving Gingrich, if there is anything that hard line conservatives are consistent about it's a willingness to forgive past indiscretions as long as you are as angry as they are now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
Indie Rocktopus posted:And you know what? gently caress them. They deserve this. The final evolution of the modern Republican party is the Westboro Baptist Church, a dozen shrieking fanatics damning everyone else to hell, and Trump's just tightening that noose. "We would tell you to pray, but it wouldn't do any good. You have earned what is coming to you." I'm sure that was very cathartic and you needed a smoke after, but the reality is, people like Trump because he's unmanaged and unapologetic - the underlying message and position is less important at this point then having a guy just tweeting #YOLO onstage and not caring what people think. His primary support is going to decline as people start focusing on the issues and realize he's an anthropomorphic clown car, but his positives should be divorced from his positions. when making broader generalizations about the GOP (sorry!)
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:35
|
|
|
Sheng-ji Yang posted:My guess is that they're going to hit him hard in the debates about the fact he used to be really weirdly liberal, supporting weird huge taxes on the rich, universal healthcare (which he seems to still sort of support actually?) and giving 100k to the Hillary senate campaign among a lot of other liberal stuff. That will probably backfire, but it's really the only avenue of attack they have. That article in the National Review saying Donald is actually Obama was an early salvo. Can they cut through his noise-making and get R primary voters to actually pay attention though? I am skeptical. He will have to do something so completely insane as to self destruct I think. Other people pointing out trivial stuff like facts and past statements will just be shrugged off with Trump calling them names and laying out sick burns on twitter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:36
|
|
|
Guys, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bush will be the Republican candidate in 2016. (also sorry to report that "yooj" jokes were never funny) STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS 2015
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:39
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:Guys, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bush will be the Republican candidate in 2016. Everyone knows this already but thank you for being the authoritative source on what is funny.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:40
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:I'm sure that was very cathartic and you needed a smoke after, but the reality is, people like Trump because he's unmanaged and unapologetic - the underlying message and position is less important at this point then having a guy just tweeting #YOLO onstage and not caring what people think. His primary support is going to decline as people start focusing on the issues and realize he's an anthropomorphic clown car, but his positives should be divorced from his positions. when making broader generalizations about the GOP (sorry!) I agree, but one could argue that maybe having an unmanaged and unapologetic POTUS is the number one issue they care about. People are frustrated and Trump is radical, who cares what he says he slams his fist on the table. (Heil Hitler)
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
I've done my part today!
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
quote:One reason Murdoch is taking to social media and deploying his publishing properties to attack Trump may be the simple fact that he hasn’t been able to control his most powerful media organ: Fox News. According to sources, Murdoch has tried — and failed — to rein in Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes, who, insiders say, is pushing Fox to defend Trump’s most outlandish comments. This week, Ailes told his senior executives during a meeting that Murdoch recently called him and asked if Fox could “back off the Trump coverage,” a source told me. Ailes is said to have boasted to his executives that he told Murdoch he was covering Trump “the way he wanted to.” The implication was that he wasn’t going to budge. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/on-trump-murdoch-has-lost-control-of-ailes-fox.html 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:43
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:Fox News will turn all their guns on Trump if it looks like he has even a remote chance at winning the nomination. They like him now, when the entertainment value and ratings outweigh the risk, but once the voting starts they'll be pushing viability hard. I feel like there has to be a certain level of acceptance within media and money establishments that the crop of candidates this election aren't stellar to begin with. Hillary is a juggernaut and nearly certain to win her primary. What if right wing donors and media are looking at trump as a return to ideological purity, and don't care that he can't win the election?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:49
|
|
|
I thought I read somewhere that Trump and Ailes were actually really tight Can someone confirm/deny?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
Three Olives posted:I was wrong I guarantee you these three words in this order are the most unlikely non-quoted sequence to come out of his mouth.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:04
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:I feel like there has to be a certain level of acceptance within media and money establishments that the crop of candidates this election aren't stellar to begin with. Hillary is a juggernaut and nearly certain to win her primary. What if right wing donors and media are looking at trump as a return to ideological purity, and don't care that he can't win the election? I don't think Trump has ANY ideology, I think he's actually a being completely divorced of ideology. A kind of nihilistic nemo upon which no criticism or analysis can be issued. Discussing Donald Trump is looking into the void and trying to find meaning.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
Three Olives posted:Guns at what? What are you going to attack Trump on that isn't widely know at this point? Are you forgetting what a hard on these idiot conservatives had for Putin? You are forgetting just how much money Walker, Rubio and Jeb! have right now, they have opposition research on Trump like crazy, if they had the goods to shoot Trump down they would have done it by now. "Insider close to Trump leaks his actual finances, he's a dumbass broke liar" -Fox News 24h news I know we know, but I'm sure it's not a widely known fact in the Republican base that Trump's had those 3 or 4 bankruptcies. I'm sure he'd have some stupid response ready, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Oy bankruptcy law if so messed up, iwn opportunity and I took it. I'm probably the first guy ever to make money off of a bankruptcy. I'd have been a fool not to!
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:I'm sure that was very cathartic and you needed a smoke after It was! Thanks  TheDisreputableDog posted:His primary support is going to decline as people start focusing on the issues and realize he's an anthropomorphic clown car, but his positives should be divorced from his positions. when making broader generalizations about the GOP (sorry!) This is where we'll have to disagree. I think his positions are his positives. I don't the Republican electorate wants to shift the focus - I think Trump's focused on precisely the issues they care about, and when the donors and mainstream candidates try to focus on more substantial issues with more nuanced positions they're going to face a huge backlash. I'll be first to admit I've got skin in this game though, because I'd very much like to see the authoritarian, reactionary core of the party alienate everyone and burn itself out, so we can start to nudge back toward sane and functional government. So it's totally possible I'm selectively ignoring something important and overestimating Trump's impact. If anyone can think of something I've missed definitely let me know.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXSFRMJhlgY
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Lindsey sighed as he drew his katana.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXSFRMJhlgY This election is the greatest thing in the history of American democracy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:I'm sure that was very cathartic and you needed a smoke after, but the reality is, people like Trump because he's unmanaged and unapologetic - the underlying message and position is less important at this point then having a guy just tweeting #YOLO onstage and not caring what people think. His primary support is going to decline as people start focusing on the issues and realize he's an anthropomorphic clown car, but his positives should be divorced from his positions. when making broader generalizations about the GOP (sorry!) What issues are those, again?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:What issues are those, again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmLHOGT0v4c
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Lindsey sighed as he drew his katana.... omg thats amazing still unelectable as gently caress though, but well played Graham 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:44
|
|
|
oh my god
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
i never dreamed i'd get to experience this period of a world empire from the inside what a time to be alive
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Lindsey sighed as he drew his katana....
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:46
|
|
|
Rexicon1 posted:I don't think Trump has ANY ideology, I think he's actually a being completely divorced of ideology. A kind of nihilistic nemo upon which no criticism or analysis can be issued. Discussing Donald Trump is looking into the void and trying to find meaning. He does, though. It's straight up nationalism. That's how he's able to sidestep free market dogma and keep his Republican supporters. He's grabbing the portion of the party that's nationalist above all else. He can tell the Grover Norquists to gently caress right off because a federal government you can drown in a bathtub is one that can't protect the country from the Mexicans and the Chinese.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:46
|
|
|
Rexicon1 posted:I don't think Trump has ANY ideology, I think he's actually a being completely divorced of ideology. A kind of nihilistic nemo upon which no criticism or analysis can be issued. Discussing Donald Trump is looking into the void and trying to find meaning. I know Trump is pandering, but his pandering is shoving the other candidates either further right or out of the way. Since he's not continuing the push to the center the right has seen in the last two elections, he is, in a sense, a return to values and principles for a lot of people. He's certainly changing the conversation. I mean, that's why we're still taking about him as a candidate instead of just a joke who washed out immediately, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:47
|
|
|
It's pretty unlikely that the GOP nomination process will produce any discussions more serious than this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Lindsey sighed as he drew his katana....  My god.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Brannock posted:Huck's eyes are pointing in different directions. You guys know this is a photoshop, right? That is the dog that was trained to not eat on that television show. It's a subtle nod both to his dog killing son and fattyfatfat. I think that makes it far, far more hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:50
|
|
|
Indie Rocktopus posted:Alright, serious question: conventional wisdom says that Trump's going to get pushed out by the eventual consensus candidate who successfully woos the big financial backers. But that was Romney's position four years ago, and they still couldn't get him elected. 2012 proved that even Koch cash can't save a campaign if both your base and the American public are antipathetic to your candidate. Exactly how far can donor money go in getting a terrible candidate through the primaries and into the general - especially when the donors are still arguing about which terrible establishment candidate to throw their collective weight behind, and the fringe candidate has already unified the base? Trump's popularity makes me think the "consensus candidate" could potentially be Chris Christie. He's got the same sort of "huge rear end in a top hat who doesn't take any poo poo and just yells at people who disagree with him" personality that Trump has, but is actually a politician and aware that there are some things (like saying Mexican immigrants are all rapists and murderers) that can make someone unelectable in the general (even if it makes them popular in the GOP).
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
Joementum posted:Lindsey sighed as he drew his katana.... He ruined that perfectly good tray of pizza bagels 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 18:52
|
|