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On the subject of serial killers and close calls, lesser-known killer Robert Lee Yates got very close to being caught at least twice but slipped away - once he refused to give a DNA sample on grounds of being a "family man," and once they were trying to look for a guy in a white Corvette, but the officer who pulled Yates over wrote down "white Camaro."
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Jul 23, 2015 12:43
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Basebf555 posted:A famous profiler, Robert Ressler interviewed Kemper a few times. They were alone in a room together and Ressler pressed the button to summon the guard to end the interview but nobody came. When Ressler became visibly anxious Kemper said something like "You know I could break your neck and put your head on this table before anybody had a chance to get in here". Apparently that was Kemper's idea of a hilarious joke, the guard came a minute later and Kemper told Ressler he was just messing with him. Sure doesn't help that Kemper was loving enormous. Like... dude was a giant and a smart one at that.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:14
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Lmao now its my turn. Yeah I didn't read up until then. Sorry. Still, scary loving dude.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:20
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Astrofig posted:So people have been making noise lately that Sandra Bland, that lady in Texas who died in custody, may actually have been dead in her mugshot: Well I guess they did a good enough job to fool me, because I think it looks like any other mug shot. She's got kind of a listless expression on her face but she's been through a traumatic experience; I've seen that look on plenty of faces in mug shots.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:15
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Frostwerks posted:Like... dude was a giant and a smart one at that.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:40
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Astrofig posted:So people have been making noise lately that Sandra Bland, that lady in Texas who died in custody, may actually have been dead in her mugshot: Man, here's two pictures of a women smiling and here's her mugshot where she's not smiling. Why does she look different? I mean I don't see any clear evidence personally, and if she was already dead there would have to be a hell of a coverup involving many different people. I'm gonna go with Occam's Razor here and just say she hung herself.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:35
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RIP Nick Nolte
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Jul 23, 2015 15:41
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ranbo das posted:Man, here's two pictures of a women smiling and here's her mugshot where she's not smiling. Why does she look different? In that picture, though, she looks like she's been crying and is on the floor or being held against a wall. I don't think she's dead, there.
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Jul 23, 2015 16:12
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Serious Cephalopod posted:Occam's razor isn't about going with the answer provided for you. Do they take mugshots like that, though? Or do they restrain them and get them at proper height? I honestly don't know.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:29
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ranbo das posted:Man, here's two pictures of a women smiling and here's her mugshot where she's not smiling. Why does she look different? They say she hung herself from a partition shorter than she was. I don't know the exact mechanics of hanging but I think that's a problem.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:58
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Kaizoku posted:Do they take mugshots like that, though? Or do they restrain them and get them at proper height? I honestly don't know. They don't restrain people, usually. In my county, at least, they stand in their own, they're photographed before intake, and they see a doctor before then for any injuries, especially head wounds. That's what's supposed to happen, anyway.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:59
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Freudian posted:They say she hung herself from a partition shorter than she was. I don't know the exact mechanics of hanging but I think that's a problem.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:12
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Alereon posted:Suicide by hanging isn't like a movie where someone ties a rope to something high and jumps off a chair or bucket (though that does happen), they're generally found in a not-quite-sitting position against a wall or door or something. Especially in a jail cell or something where you'd have limited opportunities to plan how to die. I don't think there's ever really been any reason to think her death wasn't suicide, though that certainly shouldn't absolve the police of responsibility given what happened before and after she died. She was arrested after changing lanes, placed on a 5000 dollar bond, she last spoke with her friend that said this was all nuts and the tape they released of her arrest appears to be edited. They find her dead with a plastic bag as a noose. This is pretty drat unnerving.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:18
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Freudian posted:They say she hung herself from a partition shorter than she was. I don't know the exact mechanics of hanging but I think that's a problem. Normally the way people hang themselves is just tie the rope to anything and just place their body weight on their neck. once they pass out they will not free themselves via spasming and die
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Jul 23, 2015 18:22
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ranbo das posted:Man, here's two pictures of a women smiling and here's her mugshot where she's not smiling. Why does she look different? With a garbage bag, on a 5 foot wall when she's over 6 foot, and a garbage can is not allowed in the cells to begin with. Also they first claimed she used a bed sheet, which are also not allowed in cells. Putting aside the whole illegal arrest thing, you cannot hang an adult person with a garbage bag, not even those big industrial ones. If it's intact it's too bulky and short to form a noose and if you tear it into longer pieces the strength (which is not enough to support a body in the first place) is further reduced. Plus in the photo they released that was reputedly taken moments after discovering her body the trash can, which again should not be in the cell under any circumstances, has a standard clear bag in it. Why would they put a fresh bag in the can before taking the shot? There's no other bag visible, and the clear ones they obviously use would not be strong enough for a hanging under any circumstances. I've used these bags, even if you managed to fashion a noose and had something to tie it to that wasn't a foot shorter than you it would stretch quite a bit and then break. There's a reason they don't allow this poo poo in the cells, and if she was going to kill herself with a garbage bag regular asphyxiation would be the more reasonable choice. But she'd been talking about how she was going to sue the poo poo out of them as soon as she got out, had a very clear case of assault and police brutality, and was a civil rights activist. Whether they killed her deliberately or through grievous negligence they had every reason to try to cover it up as a suicide. pienipple has a new favorite as of 18:30 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 18:23
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Why do you think it serves the interests of truth or justice to deny that a depressed woman with a history of suicide attempts killed herself in police custody? Her suicide doesn't make what the police did to put her into custody okay, or relieve them of legal responsibility for her safety and supervision while in custody.Taking a leap past reality and into  to believe that they also murdered her for mysterious reasons just makes people disbelieve the true parts of the story. I don't want to start a D&D derail here over this case, but one of the major points in this thread over and over has been the need to view situations as they are, not just make up fanciful scenarios even if they are more interesting. The truth is already hosed up and offensive enough.Edit: I hope you people are aware you're just re-enacting the Kendrick Johnson case, discussed previously in this thread, where a bunch of scumbags preyed upon the family to convince them that their son was murdered. This is bad and wrong. Alereon has a new favorite as of 19:55 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 19:10
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The only fanciful scenario is the one where cops brutalized a black woman, performed an illegal arrest, and are not held responsible when she died in their custody. Even if she did manage to hang herself with a trash bag, they are culpable because she was in their custody and they have regulations in place to prevent prisoner suicides like this, like not having loose items like at trash can with a bag in cells.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:37
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pienipple posted:The only fanciful scenario is the one where cops brutalized a black woman, performed an illegal arrest, and are not held responsible when she died in their custody. Even if she did manage to hang herself with a trash bag, they are culpable because she was in their custody and they have regulations in place to prevent prisoner suicides like this, like not having loose items like at trash can with a bag in cells. I agree with all of this and also don't really know why it's being discussed itt.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:39
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stickyfngrdboy posted:I agree with all of this and also don't really know why it's being discussed itt. Because it's the beginning of the unnerving story of how the police got away with yet another murder. This isn't some moldy article dug up from the backyard, this is fresh meat.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:43
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Screaming Idiot posted:Because it's the beginning of the unnerving story of how the police got away with yet another murder. This isn't some moldy article dug up from the backyard, this is fresh meat. We been getting at least one of those a week for the last year though, poo poo is hosed up and scary.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:48
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Screaming Idiot posted:Because it's the beginning of the unnerving story of how the police got away with yet another murder. This isn't some moldy article dug up from the backyard, this is fresh meat. This thread has, up until now, been about cases/tragedies/accidents etc that have already happened and as much information gleaned as is possible with the passing of time. This is a case in which nobody knows anything other than 'this poo poo is awful and should stop happening every week'. I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be discussed, just that it seems strange that it's happening in this particular thread. 
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Jul 23, 2015 19:59
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pienipple posted:But she'd been talking about how she was going to sue the poo poo out of them as soon as she got out, had a very clear case of assault and police brutality, and was a civil rights activist. Whether they killed her deliberately or through grievous negligence they had every reason to try to cover it up as a suicide. All of this makes me wonder if the suicide was simply an attempt at one that went too well. She broke the law, got busted on camera for assaulting a police officer, was pissed about it... and they put her in a cell full of stuff to hurt herself with. Plus, the police claim she admitted she had previously tried to kill herself, which if true (the source I saw it on seemed untrustworthy) is extra  .
MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 20:53 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 20:30
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Alereon posted:Why do you think it serves the interests of truth or justice to deny that a depressed woman with a history of suicide attempts killed herself in police custody? This is illustrative of the whole problem with the case. There's two versions of her intake papers: one printed out and filled out by hand, and the other on the computer, where the answers fromt he printout should have been entered identically. They don't match up. One says she was depressed and actively suicidal, the other doesn't. One says she had epilepsy and was taking medication for it, the other doesn't. Which one is right? At this point, no one knows. That's why it's dumb to even speculate at this point. We don't have an official cause of death, we don't have her medical history, we don't have anything but initial statements, a dash cam vid, and an internet hype machine revved up to max. More details are going to come out, and we'll be able to draw some real conclusions, but this whole "SHE WAS DEAD IN HER MUGSHOT!!!" reminds me of Reddit trying to sniff out the Boston Marathon bomber via cell phone pictures. MisterBibs posted:All of this makes me wonder if the suicide was simply an attempt at one that went too well. She broke the law, got busted on camera for assaulting a police officer, was pissed about it... and they put her in a cell full of stuff to hurt herself with. So far, there's nothing to indicate she actually did assault a police officer. If they had video of her assaulting an officer, they would've released it by now. Serious Cephalopod posted:Occam's razor isn't about going with the answer provided for you. How does it look like she's being held down? It doesn't look like she's been crying either, for that matter. It's a "I can't believe this poo poo" look.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:40
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A Pinball Wizard posted:This is illustrative of the whole problem with the case. There's two versions of her intake papers: one printed out and filled out by hand, and the other on the computer, where the answers fromt he printout should have been entered identically. They don't match up. One says she was depressed and actively suicidal, the other doesn't. One says she had epilepsy and was taking medication for it, the other doesn't. Which one is right? At this point, no one knows. That's on the police department. They hosed up and they are rightfully being viewed as being suspicious because of it.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:01
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That whole thing is really hosed up, but I don't think it counts as an unnerving story, tbh.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:03
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A Pinball Wizard posted:This is illustrative of the whole problem with the case. There's two versions of her intake papers: one printed out and filled out by hand, and the other on the computer, where the answers fromt he printout should have been entered identically. They don't match up. One says she was depressed and actively suicidal, the other doesn't. One says she had epilepsy and was taking medication for it, the other doesn't. Which one is right? At this point, no one knows. That's why it's dumb to even speculate at this point. We don't have an official cause of death, we don't have her medical history, we don't have anything but initial statements, a dash cam vid, and an internet hype machine revved up to max. More details are going to come out, and we'll be able to draw some real conclusions, but this whole "SHE WAS DEAD IN HER MUGSHOT!!!" reminds me of Reddit trying to sniff out the Boston Marathon bomber via cell phone pictures. Her eyes are very dark and the rest of her face is lighter. It's definitely my subjective opinion (all of this is)- my point with that is she looks off, but not dead. Her shoulders are scrunched up, she's flush against the background, and the lighting is terrible. She could be being held up against the wall, but she's not being fully supported, or there would be more scrunch, and officers would likely be visible. Also, those waiting for evidence from the police department that complied with her unnecessary arrest and allowed her to die are ignoring the realities of how the justice system treats black women.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:07
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RCarr posted:That's on the police department. They hosed up and they are rightfully being viewed as being suspicious because of it. When did I say it wasn't their fault? I'm saying we don't know which version is right, who hosed it up, whether it was intentional or not - basically nothing. Even saying it's suspicious is presumptuous at this point. Serious Cephalopod posted:Also, those waiting for evidence from her medical history, the coroner, the DA's office, and actual real investigative journalists with experience outside of posting on Reddit. ftfy A Pinball Wizard has a new favorite as of 21:09 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 21:07
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A Pinball Wizard posted:When did I say it wasn't their fault? I didn't say you did. Not everything is a personal attack on your opinion. I was just making a point.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:13
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A Pinball Wizard posted:When did I say it wasn't their fault? I'm saying we don't know which version is right, who hosed it up, whether it was intentional or not - basically nothing. Even saying it's suspicious is presumptuous at this point. We do know who hosed it up. The attracting officer who should not have arrested her for a routine traffic warning, which he admits in the take of the incident. That's what's unnerving. You can be arrested for nothing and dead in police custody very soon afterwards.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:16
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Serious Cephalopod posted:We do know who hosed it up. The attracting officer who should not have arrested her for a routine traffic warning, which he admits in the take of the incident. He's not the only one who hosed up though, it seems like almost every official who was even tangentially involved hosed up. I know, Hanlon's Razor and all, but if you're to follow Hanlon's Razor it's just as unnerving because it means everyone involved with your arrest and jailing might be entirely incompetent. Whether by incompetence or malice, a person died and despite being in custody we don't know how. Gives me the heebies, at least.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:36
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Astrofig posted:So people have been making noise lately that Sandra Bland, that lady in Texas who died in custody, may actually have been dead in her mugshot: Since the hallways leading to her cell were recorded by surveillance cameras, it should be relatively easy to show footage of her walking to her cell.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:43
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Going back a page or two to near misses with serial killers reminded me of this anecdote I read on b3ta years ago.http://b3ta.com/questions/decisions/post879014 posted:Makes me shiver thinking about it even now The idea that you could get so close to being another statistic on Wikipedia is really unnerving to me. I was at a bus stop about a year ago and some guy started a conversation with me. He was pretty aggressive in his tone even if he wasn't particularly physically threatening, but it was more what he said that unnerved me. A lot of stuff about how humans are inherently bad and there's no reason fighting it, we're all just violent, selfish beasts and so on. He brought this up specifically because I'd mentioned I volunteer full time for a nonprofit, so y'know, that was kinda unnecessary. Anyway he kept going, deliberately picking apart what I was wearing, the book I was reading and so on; I'm a slim 5'5" woman and was starting to feel pretty vulnerable. It was starting to get dark, my bus was now ten minutes late and I decided to tell him to go gently caress himself and went to a nearby store to call for a ride. I'm 99.9% sure he was just a lonely weirdo with absolutely no social skills who didn't realize how seriously creepy he was coming across, but it still sends shivers down my spine and I started carrying pepper spray after that.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:47
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Imagined posted:Since the hallways leading to her cell were recorded by surveillance cameras, it should be relatively easy to show footage of her walking to her cell. WShoa, okay holy gently caress. Someone elsewhere found THIS photo, and I'm praying to god it's photoshopped and that THIS is not the real thing, because if so, um----well, see for yourself.  yeaaaahhhh she looks significantly less-alive in that one, Jesus christ
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Jul 24, 2015 00:07
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Oh come on.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:15
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Astrofig posted:yeaaaahhhh she looks significantly less-alive in that one, Jesus christ Murder by MsPaint. What a terrible way to go...
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Jul 24, 2015 00:24
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Murder by MsPaint. What a terrible way to go... I've been accused of doing that a few times, but I got off on a technicality.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:27
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Anecdotal story, my friend was walking home from the bar one night (which was about a 2 block walk). When she got to her street corner she noticed some guy was following her and kept trying to get her attention. She picked up the pace and the guy kept following her, until she got to her place and got inside and locked the door. You would think the story would end there but she could hear the guy on the other side of the door saying "come on. Let me in. I'm a nice guy and I just want to talk to you". Apparently he said this a few times while banging on the door. Then she shouted that she was calling the cops (which she did) and the guy high-tailed it from there. Non-anecdotal story I found this story about the Lyon Sisters on CNN (warning: It's a CNN article). It's kind of crazy has 40 year old cold cases can still be solved (or tried to be solved with the guilty party hopefully going to prison) so long after the crime is committed. There are quite a few hosed up details about the suspect and the case. However the case goes, it is pretty obvious that some bad poo poo must have happened to the girls, and it feels pretty tragic that it took so long for something to come out of it.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:32
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Occam's Razor just means that you take the simplest explanation given the facts you have. Did she hang herself like the mortician's report says? Well, if the alternative was that the cops ?killed her? (why) then released a mug shot to make it look like she was still alive then staged a hanging then somehow bribed/coerced/befriended a mortician who looked past the obvious cause of death then I'm going to guess so. That doesn't mean I'm excusing the cops at all for what they did. They clearly crossed a line in the arrest, and possibly in their treatment in the station but thats a far cry from some massive coverup. The whole thing is hosed up but the only thing that these massive conspiracies and clearly photoshopped photos do is take away legitimacy from the actual issue at hand which is that someone died in police custody, probably due to police negligence. It's like the whole Michael Brown thing where he became a martyr and suddenly you have a bunch of people testifying that he had his hands up and was yelling dont shoot as a murderous cop unloaded an AK into him. Then you get a bunch of unreliable witnesses and the guy walks. Both the FBI and the Texas Rangers are running parallel investigations on this so if there is any wrongdoing I'm confident that it will come to light, unless you believe everyone is corrupt up and down which in that case well we're all hosed anyways. Also yeah, my friend's dad hung himself on a beam that was shorter than he was, so thats possible, the whole garbage bag strength thing aside.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:52
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Stolen from the China.jpg thread, a history of the Milwaukee protocol, the only post-exposure, non-vaccine treatment for rabies, which involves a medically induced coma until your brain stops trying to kill you: http://www.wired.com/2012/07/ff_rabies/ But what makes it unnerving (again) is that it might not work at all, and you're still more or less hosed if you're bit by a rabid animal.
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Jul 24, 2015 01:23
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ranbo das posted:Occam's Razor just means that you take the simplest explanation given the facts you have. Did she hang herself like the mortician's report says? Well, if the alternative was that the cops ?killed her? (why) then released a mug shot to make it look like she was still alive then staged a hanging then somehow bribed/coerced/befriended a mortician who looked past the obvious cause of death then I'm going to guess so. That doesn't mean I'm excusing the cops at all for what they did. They clearly crossed a line in the arrest, and possibly in their treatment in the station but thats a far cry from some massive coverup. Why is information changing in the data entry process? Why is there a garbage can in the cell? Why is the mugshot against a different background? I’m not saying armchair detectives are going to solve anything, but we have more information available than just a body with a makeshift noose. Not that I’m saying you’re necessarily wrong, it’s just less scary if the solution is ’Don’t piss those guys off’ instead of ’The hiring process to attain these levels of authority is severely lacking and they screw up at their work as often as you do at your own.’
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Jul 24, 2015 02:47
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