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Poor Ottos
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Jul 27, 2015 01:44
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so basically in this version of EU, MP is the only means to improve tech and there seems to be no way to increase MP generation other than advisors? At what point should MP be used for anything other than tech?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:58
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TTBF posted:The advisor cost discount, free leader, and (admittedly small) tech price discount from Innovative are pretty nice. I'd put it in that second category of yours. It is nowhere near as useless as Espionage or Naval. Yeah it's not completely useless, it does unlock some decent policies too. There's just not much in Innovative to recommend, and I feel like it's the worst of the Admin idea groups by a wide margin. The adviser discount is deceptively strong, I think, there aren't many ways to reduce adviser costs, the cost increases over time, and buying higher quality ones can eat a large portion of your budget. The tech discount, war exhaustion reduction, and extra adviser are all mediocre but useful. The extra leader is good right now for the same reason Aristocratic isn't a bad pick, the +1 Diplomat and +1 Free Leader are nice quality of life ideas since you lost a Diplomat and two free leaders from unique buildings. However in the beta patch you get those at King and Emperor government ranks, which puts Innovative and Aristocratic back in the dumpster imo. edit MikeC posted:so basically in this version of EU, MP is the only means to improve tech and there seems to be no way to increase MP generation other than advisors? At what point should MP be used for anything other than tech? Yeah, you get MPs from rulers and advisers. Unless you're in Muslim or worse tech groups, you shouldn't have any problem keeping up to date with tech and having leftover to spare on conquests, ideas, and so on. Learning to manage MPs is important though, be stingy with them. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 01:59
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MikeC posted:so basically in this version of EU, MP is the only means to improve tech and there seems to be no way to increase MP generation other than advisors? At what point should MP be used for anything other than tech? when you are ahead on tech or the tech you could buy isn't as useful as an idea/decision/general/coring.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:00
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My Tabarestan run just had my vassal Persia go from 38% to 100% liberty desire, because apparently disabling scutage raises liberty desire.  This is frustrating.EDIT: Luckily they declared independence, I won, and they're back to normal. Beamed fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 02:03
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It's also totally alright to fall behind a tech level or two if you really need the points for coring or important ideas. Diplomatic tech in particular is not all that useful for non-colonizers, which is why I usually pick a Diplomatic idea line first and point dump it to unlock some bonuses. You get discounts if you're behind neighbors in tech, so there's no harm in waiting a few years and buying it at a -10% or -15% discount. It's a bad idea to fall behind on Military tech, though.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:03
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Boy, it sure is wonderful to commit to a war and then realize that Lithuania had loving Napoleon on their side two centuries early. Got 4 bonuses to both fire and shock phases and my Russian human waves can't stand up to it at all.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:16
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Pellisworth posted:It's a bad idea to fall behind on Military tech, though. It's only a bad idea if you're at war, and even then you can usually get away with being behind if you're not the focus of the war. There is absolutely no harm with being behind in mil tech if you're not actively fighting.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:00
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There are also a lot of ways to make up a mil tech difference. Pick on a smaller target, have your allies do the heavy lifting, get Mil ideas or have mil NIs, etc. Mil tech disparity is only really a big deal at the start of a game if you're surrounded by similarly-teched neighbors. Even then you can usually at least outsmart the AI a bit to even things if you're one or two techs behind.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:17
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SeaTard posted:It's only a bad idea if you're at war, and even then you can usually get away with being behind if you're not the focus of the war. There is absolutely no harm with being behind in mil tech if you're not actively fighting. VDay posted:There are also a lot of ways to make up a mil tech difference. Pick on a smaller target, have your allies do the heavy lifting, get Mil ideas or have mil NIs, etc. Mil tech disparity is only really a big deal at the start of a game if you're surrounded by similarly-teched neighbors. Even then you can usually at least outsmart the AI a bit to even things if you're one or two techs behind. All true, but for new players I don't think it's wrong to emphasize the importance of staying current on mil tech. It can potentially hurt you a lot less falling back a few tech levels of Dip or Admin, and there are a lot more ways to spend those two point types. I only really fall behind on Mil tech if I'm dumping a ton into military ideas, personally. There are also certain tech levels that have a lot less impact, unlocking buildings or a cavalry unit upgrade or something that's pretty minor. Hooo boy you don't want to fall behind much on Tactics unless it's intentional and you've planned for it.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:22
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 I've grown bored of my Mutapa game since it's 1806 and I'm a satiated state. I make a profit of 185 gold a month and have a treasury of 55k. I'd stick around to see this play out but Mexico has been at 99% for a decade and should have made a peace by now.  e: For my next game I'm considering Brandenburg -> unified HRE -> Prussia. Is that even possible? I'm unsure if you can form Prussia after forming the HRE. TTBF fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 03:24
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SeaTard posted:It's only a bad idea if you're at war, and even then you can usually get away with being behind if you're not the focus of the war. There is absolutely no harm with being behind in mil tech if you're not actively fighting. It is a super bad ideas to be behind more than 1 tech in MIL between techs 4-10. After that it stops being such a huge deal, ideas and NI start to make up for the lack and not every tech gives you a super important upgrade (morale/new unit type/tactics)
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Jul 27, 2015 03:32
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TTBF posted:e: For my next game I'm considering Brandenburg -> unified HRE -> Prussia. Is that even possible? I'm unsure if you can form Prussia after forming the HRE. The (generalised) form Prussia decision is speciflcally set not to appear for the HRE.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:38
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Mutapa is pretty fun, if anything they're a little overpowered since you can steamroll Kilwa and friends with no problems at all. I went Economic first, both to reform my government and control inflation, and I would definitely recommend it, although you're a bit behind the curve if you do want to westernize. I got lucky in my game and Genoa somehow grabbed Alexandria from the Mamluks, at which point I bumrushed to make the land connection and finished in 1582. The biggest hurdle so far was Ethiopia, which didn't put up much resistance but did cover the entire area in high-unrest Coptic provinces. The resulting rebels have been more of a challenge than their armies were. Zanzibar starts Ibadi, so I went with that instead of Sunni, which was interesting but not very good. Naval morale  They do have a unique decision that gives you 5% discount on ideas, but you have to finish Innovative ideas to take it. Still, blue is the prettiest moon color.I've mentioned it before, but it's still frustrating that upon Westernizing most of the European nations notice that there's a new Western tech power that they all have negative relations with (due to different religion) and almost immediately declare my nation a rival. It also leads to a stagnant Europe, since they all end up united in hating me instead of each other.
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Jul 27, 2015 04:18
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 Seriously what the hell
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Jul 27, 2015 04:37
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Prop Wash posted:Mutapa is pretty fun, if anything they're a little overpowered since you can steamroll Kilwa and friends with no problems at all. I went Economic first, both to reform my government and control inflation, and I would definitely recommend it, although you're a bit behind the curve if you do want to westernize. I got lucky in my game and Genoa somehow grabbed Alexandria from the Mamluks, at which point I bumrushed to make the land connection and finished in 1582. The biggest hurdle so far was Ethiopia, which didn't put up much resistance but did cover the entire area in high-unrest Coptic provinces. The resulting rebels have been more of a challenge than their armies were. Yeah, Mutapa is pretty fun and I'd like to thank whoever it was who first pointed it out in the thread. On a whim I checked my save and realized I was able to guarantee the independence of France and the Ottomans. One mega war later, I got Guarantor of Peace. Didn't expect any achievements from this game and that's a hell of a one to grab.
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Jul 27, 2015 04:56
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Larry Parrish posted:
Ottomans can be kind of a glass cannon at the start - if they get rolling and eat the minors near them and don't get into major fights before moving on to the Levant, Iraq, and Egypt, they're usually in great shape to be a world power. If they pick an early fight with a huge power bloc before they've really consolidated, they can get stomped. Once they lose one war, the Mamluks will dogpile them, and that's the ballgame. Pellisworth posted:It's also totally alright to fall behind a tech level or two if you really need the points for coring or important ideas. Diplomatic tech in particular is not all that useful for non-colonizers, which is why I usually pick a Diplomatic idea line first and point dump it to unlock some bonuses. The AI buys techs on January 1st usually, so if it's September and you're thinking about buying a tech, hold off until January to see if the discount improves. Personally, I never buy a tech that's not at least -5% unless it's for a specific reason (I badly want to be one Mil Tech up on my enemy in a war I'm about to start, I need to rush an Idea Group, etc). For Admin and Diplo techs, I usually wait until I absolutely need the tech or my points are near cap or until it's -10% before buying because I'm obsessive about point maximization. The only techs that really matter early on from a "these make your game" perspective are Admin 5/7/10 (grant the first ideas), Diplo 7 (crucial if you're colonizing), and Miltech 4-10 (Tactics bonuses are must-have). That's not to say other techs don't matter (Diplo 23 gives really nice CBs, or Admin 17/23/27 for Admin/Dev Efficiency, for instance) and obviously new units are something you want ASAP, but of the 96 techs, probably 60+ of them aren't of the "gotta have right now" variety. Each Idea in a category (Admin/Diplo/Mil) gives you a 2% discount on those techs, which helps.
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Jul 27, 2015 05:10
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Jackson Taus posted:Ottomans can be kind of a glass cannon at the start - if they get rolling and eat the minors near them and don't get into major fights before moving on to the Levant, Iraq, and Egypt, they're usually in great shape to be a world power. If they pick an early fight with a huge power bloc before they've really consolidated, they can get stomped. Once they lose one war, the Mamluks will dogpile them, and that's the ballgame. The fact that they have two distinct halves to their territory divided by a waterway can cause problems too sometimes, although it's pretty rare. I've seen one of the smaller nations that they always declare war on early on actually win and take like 3-4 provinces from them because the Ottos armies were somehow all stuck on the western half of their land somewhere, despite the fact that they obviously had enough boats to be in control of the connecting waterway.
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Jul 27, 2015 05:13
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Koramei posted:he's very good at certain parts of the game but gets really hung up on small details while sometimes completely misunderstanding huge things. it is a bit bewildering when someone who practically plays EU4 as a full time job only has a very shaky understanding of big chunks of the game, but I guess that's not an uncommon thing on youtube. From a page back, but I keep seeing people post things like this about Arumba/streamers and wish they'd elaborate a little more. I've watched a ton of his vids (got time at work) and haven't noticed any huge holes, which can only mean I've got the same holes myself. Can you elaborate a little more?
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Jul 27, 2015 05:14
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VDay posted:The fact that they have two distinct halves to their territory divided by a waterway can cause problems too sometimes, although it's pretty rare. I've seen one of the smaller nations that they always declare war on early on actually win and take like 3-4 provinces from them because the Ottos armies were somehow all stuck on the western half of their land somewhere, despite the fact that they obviously had enough boats to be in control of the connecting waterway. Sometimes Venice allies Aragon and that fleet is big enough to kill Ottos early on, especially if they are already fighting Mamluks; the AI is a dirty cheater and seems to consolidate mutual enemies fleets and move to the same spots etc. If this happens, Ottos usually don't have enough time to build up a new navy before ridiculous poo poo like Byzantium blocking the strait and liberating Greece happens.
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Jul 27, 2015 06:11
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CaptCommy posted:From a page back, but I keep seeing people post things like this about Arumba/streamers and wish they'd elaborate a little more. I've watched a ton of his vids (got time at work) and haven't noticed any huge holes, which can only mean I've got the same holes myself. Can you elaborate a little more? e: Also force converting HRE members to Catholic. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 11:17
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Beamed posted:My Tabarestan run just had my vassal Persia go from 38% to 100% liberty desire, because apparently disabling scutage raises liberty desire. I was playing an Afghanistan game (released as a Timurid vassal) and I released a 2PM Persia and forced them to convert, planning on feeding them their cores back later. Unfortunately the Timurids decided to up the ante on incompetence and lost 2/3 of Persia to revolts in spite of having only ever fought a single war on their own territory since 1444. They managed to get their entire army killed in distant wars with Muscovy and hordes and from fighting rebels. So Persia has like +150% liberty desire between the conversion and revolts To be fair, making the Timurids release a huge chunk of their development as a vassal in 1444 and leaving them with even worse religious unity than usual is pretty mean. This has been a fun game all round, I had the best vassal Punjab ever who fabricated claims on all of the super valuable provinces in the Delhi area even though they weren't owned by my rivals; I didn't even know that was a thing that could happen without a militarist ruler; I think that perhaps the AI values wealthy and especially trade node provinces more strongly when it comes to fabrications. TTBF posted:Yeah, Mutapa is pretty fun and I'd like to thank whoever it was who first pointed it out in the thread. On a whim I checked my save and realized I was able to guarantee the independence of France and the Ottomans. One mega war later, I got Guarantor of Peace. Didn't expect any achievements from this game and that's a hell of a one to grab. No problem, I had fun with that one too but yeah it's really easy if you convert to Sunni you basically only ever have to fight a handful of early wars on equal footing and everything after that you will have a gigantic advantage in force limit and enough cash for infinite mercs. E: Something I've been wondering about for a while, how does increased coring cost interact with diplo annexing? RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 15:29
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I forgot I never finished doing A Fine Goose Step in my Baltic Crusader game. It feels disgusting to use the non-beta patch. Also, I'm mad this was also the save I went for the 3 aspect Protestant achievement because I really wish I could get my massive self elected HRE. I fought a war for Catholicism like a dumbass and forgot that I wasn't planning to stay Catholic all game.
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Jul 27, 2015 15:36
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RabidWeasel posted:I was playing an Afghanistan game (released as a Timurid vassal) and I released a 2PM Persia and forced them to convert, planning on feeding them their cores back later. Unfortunately the Timurids decided to up the ante on incompetence and lost 2/3 of Persia to revolts in spite of having only ever fought a single war on their own territory since 1444. They managed to get their entire army killed in distant wars with Muscovy and hordes and from fighting rebels. So Persia has like +150% liberty desire between the conversion and revolts This apparently decays - very slowly - over time, so you could wait, but IMO you're better off forcing a revolt and enjoying the low Liberty Desire for a bit; I had to take Influence to actually diploannex them within less than a century
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Jul 27, 2015 16:21
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I'm playing my first HRE game as Brandenburg. The main thing puzzling me is why did the Emperor demand unlawful territory from me when I'm in the empire? I'm now emperor and have the prompt to do the same to other nations that are entirely in the empire.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:34
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TTBF posted:I'm playing my first HRE game as Brandenburg. The main thing puzzling me is why did the Emperor demand unlawful territory from me when I'm in the empire? I'm now emperor and have the prompt to do the same to other nations that are entirely in the empire.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:37
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Unlawful territory is any land held in the HRE without a core, not HRE territory held by non-members.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:38
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TTBF posted:I'm playing my first HRE game as Brandenburg. The main thing puzzling me is why did the Emperor demand unlawful territory from me when I'm in the empire? I'm now emperor and have the prompt to do the same to other nations that are entirely in the empire. You, as a nation, don't have legitimate claims to said territory within the Empire. Basically the Emperor's keeping you down, as opposed to keeping the Empire safe from outsiders. To counter it, you can butter up the Emperor (can't remember the threshold but at a certain relations level he'll let it slide), vassalize other states instead, or be the Emperor.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:39
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TTBF posted:I'm playing my first HRE game as Brandenburg. The main thing puzzling me is why did the Emperor demand unlawful territory from me when I'm in the empire? I'm now emperor and have the prompt to do the same to other nations that are entirely in the empire. Unlawful territory is anything you don't have a core on, even for HRE members. The Emperor will demand conquered HRE provinces from you unless you're buddies with them (allied and good relations), then they'll look the other way. If you want to conquer significant land in the HRE you really want to be emperor or allied to the emperor.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:39
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Buttering up Austria until you can steal the throne or beat them in a war with their allies is a good strategy for anyone bordering or in the HRE in general.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:41
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RabidWeasel posted:. A vassal I was annexing last night as Vijayanagar, which already had +50% from traditions, took aristocratic ideas and the cost jumped from ~800 to ~1100 dropping my progress from 60% to 40% and unsynching itself from my other vassal annexation.  Diplomatic expansion in India can be really rough.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:41
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This is like asking why the cops come after you when you steal from your neighbors. I was under the impression that unlawful territory was HRE territory held by non-HRE members. The lack of a core explanation makes sense but wasn't what I assumed.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:09
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Chickpea Roar posted:A vassal I was annexing last night as Vijayanagar, which already had +50% from traditions, took aristocratic ideas and the cost jumped from ~800 to ~1100 dropping my progress from 60% to 40% and unsynching itself from my other vassal annexation. I should have been clearer; I know that increased cost traditions apply if they are the traditions of the country in question, what I was wondering is if you feed all of let's say the Rajputana region to a nice vassal that doesn't have +50% coring cost will it still have extra cost because the provinces still have the +50% modifier or does diplo annex cost apply on a 'per state' basis rather than a per province one? E: Just want to take yet another opportunity to call out increased coring cost as being a super bad mechanic that just makes you do weird poo poo to avoid it and does an extremely lovely job of being interesting in any way. E2: gently caress it, I also want to complain about how we have events for historical pretender revolts, but apparently there's no way to define stats for them so you have someone who's historically supposed to be an extremely competent ruler like Bahlûl Lodi who spawns as a 1/1/0 half the time and then there's even special events to make Delhi get hosed if they have a monarch of the Lodi dynasty with a 0 stat (historically they were a fairly short lived dynasty which ended when a dip 0 king who pissed off all his nobles which is why the events in question exist). Why bother with these kinds of railroady events if you can't make them have a bit of verisimilitude? And then there's somehow no events in the game for Agra being founded even though it was the capital of multiple Indian kingdoms / empires, and Delhi are banned from moving their capital there anyway 
RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 17:11
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TTBF posted:I was under the impression that unlawful territory was HRE territory held by non-HRE members. The lack of a core explanation makes sense but wasn't what I assumed. HRE territory held by non-HRE members is still unlawful territory, and the emperor can demand it from them as well. The difference is that the Imperial Liberation CB (used against HRE members) only lasts for a short period of time (10 years?), whereas the Imperial Ban CB (used against non-HRE members after Call for Reichsreform is enacted) can be used so long as that country holds the land.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:16
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toasterwarrior posted:You, as a nation, don't have legitimate claims to said territory within the Empire. Basically the Emperor's keeping you down, as opposed to keeping the Empire safe from outsiders. To counter it, you can butter up the Emperor (can't remember the threshold but at a certain relations level he'll let it slide), vassalize other states instead, or be the Emperor. I don't think it's a relations threshold; I've had the Emperor ask for stuff at +150 relations before. But if you're allied he won't care.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:20
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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RabidWeasel posted:I should have been clearer; I know that increased cost traditions apply if they are the traditions of the country in question, what I was wondering is if you feed all of let's say the Rajputana region to a nice vassal that doesn't have +50% coring cost will it still have extra cost because the provinces still have the +50% modifier or does diplo annex cost apply on a 'per state' basis rather than a per province one?
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Jul 27, 2015 17:43
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As Emperor, do I seriously need to get individual military access to walk through the empire? I thought I remembered someone saying the emperor doesn't need military access.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:49
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TTBF posted:As Emperor, do I seriously need to get individual military access to walk through the empire? I thought I remembered someone saying the emperor doesn't need military access. Only when at peace. When at war you do not need it in HRE lands, nor will any ally or enemy.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:55
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Quick question: How do I get my dynasty onto the thrones of other nations? Is there more to it than doing a royal marriage and hoping for the best?
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Jul 27, 2015 19:33
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Not really. In the case of Poland's electoral monarchy you can try and get your dynasty elected through Support Heir, and there's assorted options for trying to enforce Personal Unions on people, but if you just want them to share your dynasty, all you can really do is hope the RNG likes you.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:35
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