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Onkel Hedwig
Jun 27, 2007


ikanreed posted:

So I finally got my life in order enough to update my server. I also updated the status page to show the version.

Awesome, I gonna try it out later

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LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Everything about Factorio becomes so much more fun once you get robots.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
How did I never realise that holding shift allows a blueprint to be used even if there are conflicts with terrain or existing structures? :psyduck:

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Platystemon posted:

How did I never realise that holding shift allows a blueprint to be used even if there are conflicts with terrain or existing structures? :psyduck:

Documentation is in alpha too :-P

Try holding shift while placing a regular structure out of your normal reach.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Platystemon posted:

How did I never realise that holding shift allows a blueprint to be used even if there are conflicts with terrain or existing structures? :psyduck:

That was on the feature list for 0.12.1.

It's new.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Platystemon posted:

How did I never realise that holding shift allows a blueprint to be used even if there are conflicts with terrain or existing structures? :psyduck:

Sweet! What does it do with the conflicting terrain? Remove it?

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

LLSix posted:

Sweet! What does it do with the conflicting terrain? Remove it?

Doesn't place it. Useful if you're placing something like a solar grid and can only place half of it.

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.
I could swear I've been using shift place long before .12 came out.

Is there a mod that allows blueprints to stack? They take up so much damned inventory space.

Loren1350
Mar 30, 2007

oxbrain posted:

I could swear I've been using shift place long before .12 came out.

Is there a mod that allows blueprints to stack? They take up so much damned inventory space.

Changelog posted:

Version: 0.11.18
Date: 12.3. 2015
Features:
- Blueprints can be built over things marked for deconstruction.
- Blueprints can be force placed using alternative build mode (shift click).

They've added some other things more recently though, like auto deconstruct-marking trees, and improving the general behavior.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
There needs to be like an inventory spot just for blueprints. Also they need to work on the tree detection for blueprint placement, because sometimes there are trees that are in the way but it won't mark them for removal. I think it happens when the "base" of the tree isn't in the blueprint area but the collision box is.
E: And looks like the blueprint bug should be fixed in the next release (mabye today?) http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14622&p=99430&hilit=blueprint#p99430
E2: and 12.4 is out:http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14884

FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 14, 2015

Onkel Hedwig
Jun 27, 2007


What is better to increase oil production on pump jacks that produce 0.1/s: Speed module or productivity?

Telarra
Oct 9, 2012

Productivity modules will actually hurt oil production, not help, since they have a 15% speed reduction and the level 3 only reaches +10% productivity. Put speed modules in your pumpjacks (beacons too if you really need it) and productivity in your refineries and chemical plants.

e: Productivity might be a good way to get extra mileage out of oil deposits that haven't hit 10% yield yet, but it'd probably need to be tested.

Telarra fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Aug 15, 2015

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah, I use speed 3 modules in all my pumpjacks and productivity 3 modules in my entire oil refining/production chain. Seems to work well enough, 2x speed 3 is +100% pumping speed, 2x production 3 is only like 10% net production speed loss, but uses 30% less oil per time, and you can always build more plants to get around the speed problem.

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002
I just beat 0.12 for the first time. I like how the rocket uses a variety of different products, rather than being focused almost entirely on electronics.


LLSix posted:

Everything about Factorio becomes so much more fun once you get robots.

Especially solar power - the personal roboport is a must-have for placing a dozen or so megawatts worth of panels at a time.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Will robots reload turrets for you if you have ammo in a passive provider chest? Will robots grab repair kits out of a chest or does it have to be stored in a roboport?


Cockmaster posted:

Especially solar power - the personal roboport is a must-have for placing a dozen or so megawatts worth of panels at a time.
I hadn't thought of doing that. I've been putting roboports down near my solar farms. Probably for the best since this way they can repair the firebases defending the solar plants.

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.
Pillbug

LLSix posted:

Will robots reload turrets for you if you have ammo in a passive provider chest? Will robots grab repair kits out of a chest or does it have to be stored in a roboport?

No reloading of turrets directly; you'll have to put a requester chest and belt+inserters if you want to reload guns. Or, just use lasers like everyone else because they are way better.

They will grab repair kits out of provider/storage chests and use them, however.

the solar/accumulator square is ace; use that thing. It has a roboport in the center.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Turrets would be good if you could stick any ammo type in them. Shotgun turrets and rocket turrets would particularly be good and would maybe make them good lategame too.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Bhodi posted:

the solar/accumulator square is ace; use that thing. It has a roboport in the center.

This one? Thanks, I hadn't thought to look for a solar panel layout since its so easy to build a small blueprint yourself.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Drone_Fragger posted:

Turrets would be good if you could stick any ammo type in them. Shotgun turrets and rocket turrets would particularly be good and would maybe make them good lategame too.

And flame turrets would complement other defenses well.

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010

LLSix posted:

This one? Thanks, I hadn't thought to look for a solar panel layout since its so easy to build a small blueprint yourself.

I liked this one better, since it has more capacity rather than generation.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
I use this simple but efficient design for solar farms:



That’s 56 solar panels and 60 accumlators, which I think is a better ratio than the 25:21 that’s optimum if LASER turrets are ignored.

Along one axis the substations are just close enough together for their wires to connect. Along the other, they don’t connect, so a large pole is placed between each row (or column, if rotated) at one end.

I used this arrangement even before 0.12, using a temporary string of roboports. If I recall correctly, the construction radius is enough to construct three rows at a time before moving the ports. Now I use personal roboports.

Foehammer
Nov 8, 2005

We are invincible.

I use this one for solar:


Also, this should end well:

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.
Pillbug

DelphiAegis posted:

I liked this one better, since it has more capacity rather than generation.

This is the one I use.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
Can anyone that uses these various solar/capacitor farms post the Blueprint strings (http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13651) for them? Much easier than manually copying the design.

Foehammer
Nov 8, 2005

We are invincible.

FISHMANPET posted:

Can anyone that uses these various solar/capacitor farms post the Blueprint strings (http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13651) for them? Much easier than manually copying the design.



code:
H4sIAAAAAAAA/6Xc2W4iORQG4FeJ+joZsQ5TiniWFiFcINFUxCLNKMq7T2ggEpTB/5e+4iK/nbPadTa/tg+rdj5bPfycvi/Wu+VuudhO39/Xs1+L6Y9tu5pt
nt5m68Xqx+Nbu/38a7uevv87fRoM/xo//nf8/fh4rON7hu9PED9CfN/w/xh8jNIpwV9m2+X8aTaf73/tV7Ndu7lc1Pu9Itm+uPtNtJFuckGpo1LRZtAkyxYf
KWkY2cB5/94FOfuX7W52AF3D+7/B/ZiUp37DKya8YswrhryCOe8wflOqzDDz6+ziAsUrQR2ObwlTZanmyXbApsbWzA7T9clb0uz6e/2k6oW3zwl/OD9zuzwS
1G+i2/Z0TRx+I/wY8QPDNyV4jeFJzu8IySe4oYukVFjNOS0K8jblpia0grKRVVgFK/4jN5mQm4zRTVL8wPBNCZ65ScTvCMknuKGLpERuknBaFGTdTUK4WUHZ
yDI3ibT65Sejb/gJG5qqi3mW2OCS5UBE/W+IKIomvrQ8wKMkxQ8M35TgmYYjfkdIPsENXSQlss2E06Ig60dJCDcrKBtZ5lYJr3/kJsmX8pebNOYlKXxA8KaA
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5prZu8mzfFs0SFW+Wpear/pHxwHvZ82SsKV4ZGTnaXafnu6DMEI4XzYpfEDwhtB/E3pYQEcumuNjqZdouQkmNkmCph1TfdGuonuXblKK2477W5yKYSpGqRak
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qjQ7MSMsWniim0/4x+Ny3q4Pb6Ys16+LwynZ/WefqOfNYrffrB9+Pi/Wr/8DeKbMeXVFAAA=

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

I was setting up my tier 3 module production lines when I noticed that the rocket silo doesn't need tier 3 modules anymore. The new material requirements are much more reasonable. I may actually finish a game for once; although I don't know. I feel like I've pretty much beat the game now that I have all electric power and robots.

Phssthpok
Nov 7, 2004

fingers like strings of walnuts
Here's what I've been using for a no-roboport game. It has a 1:1 ratio and doesn't require any plastic. It uses 18% more space than a perfectly-packed layout, but fits into smaller corners and doesn't obstruct travel.



code:
H4sIAAAAAAAA/52TzarDIBCFXyVkrSE3Ie2i+CzB6iwE4wR/4BbJu9c2XdmUatd+53DmzCix0Si4bmYWwXjlFTgWo+ELsHYBqcJCQYPwVgm6ooaWrOgShobF
f0bHbiI3Rk/dtG3kJbtyl2AuRFiC5h5tphkeinK+r8Nz9+9DHM3gUHNLV25AZ+n/dnoooo/g4lb7mkBl8AFb2k9VmrEizVh7O6eq0ymnM+/iPZ1/qfMp2ogS
aB4fThkJqRDy3lhy3h8H8mmKZHSx4IM1zXwBI+9HRAL01QMAAA==

Phssthpok fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Aug 16, 2015

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Thel posted:

In addition to what Shintaro posted above, if you want a nice regular patterned oilfield (a square with oil placed so that you can get pumpjacks on it and pipes out from it), then plug this into the console:

code:
-- create new resources. skip_x and skip_y are mostly for crude oil (everything else only takes up one tile anyway).
-- res_names: coal, stone, crude-oil, copper

res_name = "crude-oil"; skip_x = 3; skip_y = 4; start_x_offset = 10; start_y_offset = 10; end_x_offset = 10; end_y_offset = 10; 
for pos_x = game.player.character.position.x - start_x_offset, game.player.character.position.x + end_x_offset, skip_x do 
  for pos_y = game.player.character.position.y - start_y_offset, game.player.character.position.y + end_y_offset, skip_y do 
    if (game.canplaceentity{name = res_name, position = {pos_x, pos_y}}) then 
      game.createentity{name = res_name, position = {pos_x, pos_y}, amount = 20000000}; 
    end 
  end 
end 
res_name = nil; skip_x = nil; skip_y = nil; start_x_offset = nil; start_y_offset = nil; end_x_offset = nil; end_y_offset = nil; 

So this is from a milllion pages back, but the LUA changed and this no longer runs, but I fixed it:
code:
res_name = "crude-oil"; skip_x = 3; skip_y = 4; start_x_offset = 10; start_y_offset = 10; end_x_offset = 10; end_y_offset = 10; 
for pos_x = game.player.character.position.x - start_x_offset, game.player.character.position.x + end_x_offset, skip_x do 
  for pos_y = game.player.character.position.y - start_y_offset, game.player.character.position.y + end_y_offset, skip_y do 
    if (game.get_surface(1).can_place_entity{name = res_name, position = {pos_x, pos_y}}) then 
      game.get_surface(1).create_entity{name = res_name, position = {pos_x, pos_y}, amount = 20000000}; 
    end 
  end 
end 
res_name = nil; skip_x = nil; skip_y = nil; start_x_offset = nil; start_y_offset = nil; end_x_offset = nil; end_y_offset = nil; 
Basically, game.cancreateentity and game.createentity are gone, replaced with game.get_surface(1).can_place_entity and game.get_surface(1).create_entity.

Onkel Hedwig
Jun 27, 2007


I wanted to optimize the layout of my production chain for a little bit and ended up playing for 4 hours. drat you, Factorio

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008




The Upgraded Electric mod is pretty great -- those are all 600kW UE solar panels in the top right. A few more accumulator banks and I'll be able to scrap the steam generators entirely; I'm debating whether to do this or put together some sort of rickety rube goldberg contraption to fire them up if the accumulators run dry. It's crazy that there's no way to give accumulators a higher priority than steam generators.

At the moment my main bottleneck is actually plastics; all three of the oil deposits I started with ran dry quite quickly. I'm playing with RSO, which apparently means oil deposits are not just spread extremely widely, but are super rare -- I built a radar array and let it fully map the area without finding any, then built mining bases at two of the mineral deposits detected that way and added radar to them, too, and one of them finally detected oil near the limits of its operation. I'm in the process of setting up a rail line to bring in more oil, which should let me bring advanced circuit production back up to speed and start producing more roboports -- I don't even have my main base fully covered yet, and none of the satellite bases have any.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Zephyrine posted:

6 chests per train cart?

You're a brave man. I once built a 10 cart train station and the number of chests each cart could support was something like 6-6-6-5-6-6-6-5-6-6 I had to rebuild the whole thing when I noticed that stuff was going into the wrong cart.

I do in fact like to live dangerously:

Maybe the stuff lines up better in 12.0? That's 8 carriages, 6 chests per carriage per side, it all lines up perfectly.

I kind of want to make a train megapost, I have thoughts on trains.

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011
:norway:

:iiam:



Megapost about trains, yes please.

scuba school sucks
Aug 30, 2012

The brilliance of my posting illuminates the forums like a jar of shining gold when all around is dark
Yeah, let's hear your thoughts on trains. I've just upgraded to automated blue science and I'm about to take my tank for a test drive but the limit of my own thoughts on trains is, "lookit what you or Evilreaver posted and copy that". I'd like a little more of the theory, why loops are Hitler or what works and what doesn't.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Network Pesci posted:

Yeah, let's hear your thoughts on trains. I've just upgraded to automated blue science and I'm about to take my tank for a test drive but the limit of my own thoughts on trains is, "lookit what you or Evilreaver posted and copy that". I'd like a little more of the theory, why loops are Hitler or what works and what doesn't.

I don't get tanks. Turret spam works so well I've never seen much use in anything else.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
Personal roboports make turret creep so much more effective. I also discovered that multiple personal roboports not only expand the number of robots you can control at once (10 per port) but also increase their area of effect. I already had one in my armor, and swapped out one of my exoskeletons for 2 more, and my roboeffectiveness is huge. Only problem is charging, 2 fusion reactors isn't really enough to charge them with much speed.

Also, currently working on a Coal Depot. It will take 8 car coal trains, unload them on one of two platforms, and then balance the output into 8 stations that will load a 1-car coal train. It's a little slice of madness here let me tell you.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

FISHMANPET posted:

Only problem is charging, 2 fusion reactors isn't really enough to charge them with much speed.

When there are a bunch of robots waiting to recharge, you can cheat by plucking them from the air (right click, I think) and putting them in your inventory. When they leave your inventory to continue work, they’ll have full charges.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

LLSix posted:

I don't get tanks. Turret spam works so well I've never seen much use in anything else.

Tanks are great for getting alien goo since you can just run over the spawner.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Tanks barely slow down when running over spawners, especially if you put a round in ahead of you. Just don't hit a Big Worm, that'll stop you dead in your tracks.

I love going on tank rampages, but they're too high-tech imo, almost impossible to get tanks and tank ammo out before Big bugs appear, who are much less intimidated by rolling thunder. If you could get a tank in Medium Biter time reliably they would be a lot better. (Though this might be my 'factory first, defense whenever' priorities)

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
So, guys, I have a confession. I love loops.

So first of all, maybe, let's step back. What even is a loop.
So I generally don't follow the game's "community" because why watch people play a game when I can play it myself. I don't know, I just don't get the whole streaming scene where you watch people do something you're perfectly capable of doing yourself. But I was looking for some ideas on trains and I ended up watching MangledPork Gaming's Railworld video in the background at work. He used "loops." Probably the defining characteristic of this is that trains will go in one direction only - forward. If they need to turn around, they need to loop around. Benthem accomplished this by having roundabouts at various points in his track. This often meant that that to go west a train had to first go east to the next roundabout and loop around to go west.

As an OpenTTD player, I've been "looping" by default since always. I've also always double tracked everything, because OpenTTD. I also used to make my double tracks with enough space between them that an entire loop could fit inside them. This is because when I first played I put tracks next to each other and either because of my bad placement or block detection back then, curves didn't work so well, so I said "they should be spread out" and decided to spread them out the maximum amount. It's Factorio, go big or go home. But instead of looping at random roundabouts, all my stations were 2-way. You could enter from either direction, and exit from either direction.

But I thought these roundabouts looked cool, and also narrower double track (2 empty rail widths between the tracks) sounded cool, so I gave it a try.

Now earlier in the thread someone posted a video from Negative Root titled "How to do Trains" that said loops are bad, use the double headed method. That means there is a locomotive on each end of the train, pointing in opposite directions. All stations would be dead ends, one locomotive pulls you into the station, the other pulls you out. Now Negative Root got so much flack over this that he doxxed some poor soul who was naive enough to send his "loop based" system to Negative Root for critique in his next video. Except the map is trash (and the guy that made it admits it, it was his first attempt). The junctions are terrible. Not really the fault of looping but bad junction design. So let's try and give a little love to to the poor loop.

An aside on chain signals
.12 added this great new feature called chain signals. It's a signal that looks ahead and won't turn green until there is a standard block signal that is green. It's great and amazing and I can't imagine playing without it. But even in previous versions, with my loop systems, I didn't have very many deadlocks (trains get stuck). They happened sometimes, but, again OpenTTD player here, I can block signal a rail network. Negative Root's strongest claim against loop networks is that they're harder to figure out. Maybe that's true, I don't know. And I don't know if pre-chain signals, his double header design was more deadlock proof than a loop system. But we're in the future now, and chain signals are great and solve so many problems. So lets not let past prejiduces cloud or judgement going forward.

That's clear as mud, please continue
Sure, but I've got to leave so we'll continue this later. And if you're sad that this post had no pictures, check out each letter of my confession at the top. Expect more from me later tonight.

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Thel
Apr 28, 2010

Yeah I've gotta say as an TTD vet from way back (anyone remember TTDPatch?), I naturally gravitated toward one-way tracks and loop stations.

That said, the terminal station approach works and is undisputably simpler to implement. However if you're trying to scale up your railway system, terminal stations very rapidly become a bottleneck.

(However you only hit that in Factorio with designs that go through ludicrous amounts of raw materials. In OpenTTD, you hit train/station bottlenecks about half an hour into the game.)

e: Does concreting under train tracks make trains go faster, or is it purely cosmetic?

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