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Fantastic 4 fell 70% in its second week to $8 million. It made about the same this week as Ant-Man, which is going into its sixth week, and is officially a huge bomb. Fox had said that the movie was going to rebound when good word of mouth from people who had actually seen the movies spread. I wonder what the new talking point will be. Has a major tentpole movie ever actually done what Fox was claiming Fantastic 4 would do? Bomb opening weekend, but then redouble with a 200+% increase the second week and go on to be a success? I literally can't think of it ever happening.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:49
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While Dracula itself was huge in 1931, a few of the other Universal monster flicks that also came out in the early 30s didn't really blow up until a re-releases in the late 30s and early 40s. And of course there were plenty of movies in the late seventies and throughout the 80s that bombed in theaters but got a huge following on VHS. So basically no, even the "closest" examples to something like that are waaaay different situations and time frames.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:06
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Has a major tentpole movie ever actually done what Fox was claiming Fantastic 4 would do? Bomb opening weekend, but then redouble with a 200+% increase the second week and go on to be a success? I literally can't think of it ever happening. That big an increase? Probably not a tentpole but there are some movies which did big increases without adding theaters. But they've been at most mid level movies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_weekend_in_box_office_performance Edit: it should be mentioned that the common factor is usually a Christmas release, which behaves strangely for obvious reasons. Ape Agitator fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 18:18
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Ape Agitator posted:That big an increase? Probably not a tentpole but there are some movies which did big increases without adding theaters. But they've been at most mid level movies. Heh, apparently Walking with Dinosaurs increased the second weekend. I guess the horrible dubbing worked.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:17
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Vegetable posted:Well, at least some cast and crew members are blaming Trank. This is like the fifth time this article has been posted and it's just as stupid as the first. "Pushed a gloomy tone onto the film's stars" like are you loving kidding me? Like the noble cast was TRYING to make the movie "fun and light hearted!" but the mean evil Trank wouldn't let them. Doesn't matter cause according to Marvel they're at fault enough to deserve to die for it anyways of course.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:33
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People keep posting that article and it still feels like bullshit. Trank wasn't "pushing" a darker tone on the movie it's what he was specifically hired to do. Also I can't take any article seriously that mentions the dogs. Like in what universe does this matter to how the movie comes out, especially since they all say the matter was settled meaning either Trank paid for it or the insurance paid for it so who cares. Like oh man look out for Josh Trank's dogs they did $100,000 of house damage! How do even some big dogs $100,000 in damage like did they eat the entire bathroom? It really does sound like Alien 3 where Fox was initially excited to take it in a more downbeat direction and then got cold feet and gave zero support beyond marketing the hell out of it. Pirate Jet posted:Doesn't matter cause according to Marvel they're at fault enough to deserve to die for it anyways of course. "DR. DOOM DEMANDS NO LESS THAN TRANK'S HEAD!!!" ~Kevin Feige Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 16:03
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My understanding of what has happened here is pretty shaky but seems a new director has been given a big movie with a big budget then possibly not been able to handle it when studio gets involved which turns out a movie which is a clunker? Mostly due to the studio pulling scenes due to budget concerns and not supporting the director? And 20th Century Fox is the studio in question? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103644/ Hopefully Trank gets another chance as Chronicle was pretty good. The whole reason Trevorrow has got his next big shot was due to turning out a competent movie that made lots of cash. (Note I did not say good) In fairness Jurassic World was much easier to get right. Fantastic 4 is at the end of the day not a great comic. I never thought it ever had a great antagonist which is why Doom keeps being in the movies, he is all they have.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:03
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Bigsteve posted:Fantastic 4 is at the end of the day not a great comic. I never thought it ever had a great antagonist which is why Doom keeps being in the movies, he is all they have. I don't know about this since people said the same thing about Superman & Lex Luthor but we got a pretty good movie out of Man of Steel. (Or at least the villain was not the reason people were complaining about the movie)
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Aug 18, 2015 16:06
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computer parts posted:I don't know about this since people said the same thing about Superman & Lex Luthor but we got a pretty good movie out of Man of Steel. I feel like putting Zod as the first villain instead of Lex was a good choice, actually. Or at least a way to use the same villain as previous movies but with a more interesting spin on it. You're brand new to your powers, and now here comes somebody bigger than you, stronger than you, and much more ruthless than you. How can you fight them?
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Aug 18, 2015 16:29
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The Bee posted:I feel like putting Zod as the first villain instead of Lex was a good choice, actually. Or at least a way to use the same villain as previous movies but with a more interesting spin on it. You can't have Lex as your main antagonist to Superman in the beginning, given the timeframe, sine there's not enough time to actually do anything. Lex needs time to get pissed off, and study available information and hero motivations, and work up his research teams and poo poo to effectively challenge Clark. He's a great antagonist, but he's a terrible coming of age villain. Zod et al was perfect for that.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:33
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computer parts posted:I don't know about this since people said the same thing about Superman & Lex Luthor but we got a pretty good movie out of Man of Steel. Main issue with Superman movies is that for you to worry about Superman you either need Kryptonite or a bad guy so powerful that pretty much everything gets destroyed. I liked Man of Steel but at the end I was bored of seeing a guy get punched through a skyscraper. Its a common trend with superhero movies. You know that for the most part everyone will live. I like comics but don't consider myself and expert or even that knowledgeable about them but I have never saw Doom as a bad guy. Are FF as really worthy of the fact the have now had three huge budget movies? Ghost Rider equally baffles me. Was there really that much of a need? At the end I think your always on to a looser with the fantastic four as a movie. You may even make a great one but I sort of don't think people will care. Next step will most likely be a partnership with Marvel just like Spider man. Just depends how desperate Fox are. (Sony were loving desperate)
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Aug 18, 2015 16:35
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Drifter posted:You can't have Lex as your main antagonist to Superman in the beginning, given the timeframe, sine there's not enough time to actually do anything. Lex needs time to get pissed off, and study available information and hero motivations, and work up his research teams and poo poo to effectively challenge Clark. Lex was the first antagonist in the first Superman, that worked out alright. That movie had other problems not related to the villain though. :P
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Aug 18, 2015 16:35
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Bigsteve posted:Ghost Rider equally baffles me. Was there really that much of a need? I say it in this thread a lot but Ghost Rider, like Daredevil, would be ideal as a tv series. I kind of think Fantastic Four might be also. Ghost Rider/FF's strengths lie in the massive diversity of stuff they run into which I would probably be way easier to build a story and characters around the variety of weirdness they deal with when it doesn't have to be 90 minutes and also cover their origins and stuff. The "infernal road trip" kind of structure of Ghost Rider in particular would be ideal for it. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 16:40
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Bigsteve posted:I liked Man of Steel but at the end I was bored of seeing a guy get punched through a skyscraper. Its a common trend with superhero movies. You know that for the most part everyone will live. "You know that for the most part everyone will live" seems like an odd complaint to throw at a movie with as much raw destruction as Man of Steel.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:45
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Especially considering the whole point was that thousands of people died. I thought it was hilarious that the gravity machine was slamming not only cars, but people into the ground with each gravitic burst. not in a 'haha people are dying' way, but a 'holy poo poo, they're actually showing this" way.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:58
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Sir Kodiak posted:"You know that for the most part everyone will live" seems like an odd complaint to throw at a movie with as much raw destruction as Man of Steel. I will rephrase that to anyone who we care about. Case in point, daily planet worker trapped that Morpheus is trying to free. Fake suspense as we really don't care. At no point is supes or Lois at risk. (Didn't care much about Lois, in Donner's movie when she is trapped in the car about to die I cared). I still think the 70's Superman is better cause Clarke really gave a poo poo about Lois. Man of Steel Clark barely knew her. Another modern trait of modern superhero movies is ending with the character finally becoming the hero then roll credits. I want to see full Superman in action. I agree that Fantastic 4 could be a better TV show. Give the characters some time to breath.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:39
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The best example of a film opening poorly and becoming a hit I can think of is Sholay, which was a bollywood film that opened really poorly but word of mouth was SO GOOD it essentially became bollywood gone with the wind and ended up showing for years. It's weird that when people talk about man of steel it's always about the horrible destruction at the end but not the awful pacing and editing. I seriously couldn't believe such a big budget movie had such horrific presentation.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:43
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Bigsteve posted:Fantastic 4 is at the end of the day not a great comic. I never thought it ever had a great antagonist which is why Doom keeps being in the movies, he is all they have. You must not be familiar with the Fantastic Four then. The Fantastic Four has pretty great villains like Galactus, Kang the Conqueror, Annihilus and Super Skrull, besides Dr. Doom. It's been said to death around here, but if they did a Fantastic Four movie in the style of The Incredibles, in which they are already pre-established in the world (with the origin story out of the way), I think it would work well. Instead of keeping the Fantastic Four strictly on Earth, why not have them explore the universe?
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Aug 18, 2015 17:44
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Bigsteve posted:I will rephrase that to anyone who we care about. I liked the army guy who had the nerve to pull a knife on a Kryptonian. If the issue is that you knew the main character in an action movie would survive to the end, then you've presumably been unsatisfied with nearly every action movie ever made. I guess Neo dies at the end of the third Matrix movie.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:46
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Jonny_Rocket posted:It's been said to death around here, but if they did a Fantastic Four movie in the style of The Incredibles, in which they are already pre-established in the world (with the origin story out of the way), I think it would work well. Instead of keeping the Fantastic Four strictly on Earth, why not have them explore the universe? The Incredibles is an origin story. For the kids it's inarguably an origin story, and for the parents it's not when they started being superheroes but it is when they started being a super-team.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:13
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Sir Kodiak posted:I liked the army guy who had the nerve to pull a knife on a Kryptonian. It's the zero possibility of them dying. Reason I like Jackie Chan more than Bruce Lee is that in his fights Jackie is one step away from getting his rear end kicked. Superman is Bruce Lee. So far ahead that he is unstoppable. Jonny_Rocket posted:You must not be familiar with the Fantastic Four then. The Fantastic Four has pretty great villains like Galactus, Kang the Conqueror, Annihilus and Super Skrull, besides Dr. Doom. Exaclty, not familiar enough to say who would be good enough to pose a risk but I did say Galactus and after Guardians of the Galaxy I think people would go for a giant space God also was Ronan the accuser not in Fantastic Four at some point?. I'm very open to the possibility that there could be a great movie in there but now, after three godawful movies would the normal movie going public want another? Look at it this way, after 2 trys at a stand alone the hulk was one of the best things in the avengers and Marvel still have no real plans for another hulk movie.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:16
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Bigsteve posted:It's the zero possibility of them dying. Reason I like Jackie Chan more than Bruce Lee is that in his fights Jackie is one step away from getting his rear end kicked. Superman is Bruce Lee. So far ahead that he is unstoppable. Superman is on his heels for much of both the Smallville fight and the Metropolis fight. There is, of course, zero possibility of him dying – it's a movie and he's the main character – but in the same way that we all know Jackie Chan is going to survive his rumble in the Bronx.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:19
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Bigsteve posted:Look at it this way, after 2 trys at a stand alone the hulk was one of the best things in the avengers and Marvel still have no real plans for another hulk movie. I'll agree with you on this. Maybe the FF would be better suited for a TV series at this point. computer parts posted:The Incredibles is an origin story. For the kids it's inarguably an origin story, and for the parents it's not when they started being superheroes but it is when they started being a super-team. Yeah, you're right - I haven't seen the movie in a while, but whenever I think of The Incredibles it reminds me of what a good Fantastic Four movie could be, given the right context and vision.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:21
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I too will buy into doing it like the Incredibles. Brad bird got so much right.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:29
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Bigsteve posted:It's the zero possibility of them dying. Reason I like Jackie Chan more than Bruce Lee is that in his fights Jackie is one step away from getting his rear end kicked. Superman is Bruce Lee. So far ahead that he is unstoppable. Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee both beat the poo poo out of a dozen guys at once. The difference is that Jackie starts the fight panicked-looking and saying "I don't want any trouble!" and maybe hits a big dude and winces in pain, shaking his hand and pantomiming hurt. If you want to see Badass Jackie see Legend of the Drunken Master 2, there's a scene where he fights a hatchet-wielding gang and beats the ever-loving gently caress out of them.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:32
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Jonny_Rocket posted:You must not be familiar with the Fantastic Four then. The Fantastic Four has pretty great villains like Galactus, Kang the Conqueror, Annihilus and Super Skrull, besides Dr. Doom. The correct answer is, of course, Mole Man. EDIT: I was super disappointed when the weirdo villain in Corman's FF movie was "the Jeweler" when he was obviously Mole Man.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:33
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Strange Matter posted:The correct answer is, of course, Mole Man. No one's gay for Moleman.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:38
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee both beat the poo poo out of a dozen guys at once. The difference is that Jackie starts the fight panicked-looking and saying "I don't want any trouble!" and maybe hits a big dude and winces in pain, shaking his hand and pantomiming hurt. Yeah, and it's totally reasonable to value those displays of difficulty. But it's weird to fault Man of Steel for this when it shows Superman doing as badly as I can recall seeing without having to rely on Kryptonite. It's not Superman Returns where Superman calmly takes a bullet directly to the eyeball. In Man of Steel he repeatedly has to pull himself together after getting the poo poo kicked out of him: when Faora completely outclasses him in the IHOP, when Nam-Ek is slamming him into the street like a rag doll, when Zod hits him so hard he ends up floating upside-down in a daze, etc.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:39
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I'm just pointing out that it's tone. Despite his "I'm just a man" shtick, Batman is as immune to bullets as Spider-Man or Superman. And yeah Man of Steel Superman is just continuously getting his rear end kicked. Whenever he rallies the situation almost immediately reverses itself and he's back to being a punching bag. There's a great scene where he goes OFF on Nam-Ek and punches him into a trainyard - a few moments later a locomotive comes sailing back and smashes him through a building. There's no "untouchableness" here. To be honest that's the sensation I got from the Dr. Doom hallway sequence.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:41
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm just pointing out that it's tone. Despite his "I'm just a man" shtick, Batman is as immune to bullets as Spider-Man or Superman. I meant the "but it's weird..." bit in relation to the other guy, not you, to be clear. And, yeah, that's exactly what's going on in the hallway sequence. Doom is so derealized that ordinary reality can't touch him anymore. Though I think that works well in this case because he's the villain, so him coming across as untouchable heightens the stakes. I'm really curious what the group did to take him down in the original version of the movie, before they replaced it with that godawful Planet Zero segment.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:34
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee both beat the poo poo out of a dozen guys at once. The difference is that Jackie starts the fight panicked-looking and saying "I don't want any trouble!" and maybe hits a big dude and winces in pain, shaking his hand and pantomiming hurt. If you want to see Badass Jackie see Legend of the Drunken Master 2, there's a scene where he fights a hatchet-wielding gang and beats the ever-loving gently caress out of them. And all the way through he is on the verge of getting his rear end kicked but doesn't. He gets hit. Watch a Bruce Lee fight and him getting hit once just makes him go super saiyan. I'm using it as a point, Watch the last fight in drunken master 2 and tell me Jackie come out of it as an untouched hero. To win he has to go full drunken master. I'm using this as a point. There needs to be some risk no matter how small. Yep the good guy rarely dies but using Donner's Superman as an example he feels the loss. He lost Krypton then Lois and that's too much so he gets mad.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:40
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Bigsteve posted:And all the way through he is on the verge of getting his rear end kicked but doesn't. He gets hit. Watch a Bruce Lee fight and him getting hit once just makes him go super saiyan. I'm using it as a point, Watch the last fight in drunken master 2 and tell me Jackie come out of it as an untouched hero. To win he has to go full drunken master. I'm using this as a point. There needs to be some risk no matter how small. Yep the good guy rarely dies but using Donner's Superman as an example he feels the loss. He lost Krypton then Lois and that's too much so he gets mad. The loss in a Superman movie is all the people who are not invulnerable. In MoS, Superman won, but he wasn't untouched, as the bodies and buildings clearly showed.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:54
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Drifter posted:The loss in a Superman movie is all the people who are not invulnerable. In MoS, Superman won, but he wasn't untouched, as the bodies and buildings clearly showed. And the guy clearly "gets mad." He ends up screaming in rage in all his major battles.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:05
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Sir Kodiak posted:And the guy clearly "gets mad." He ends up screaming in rage in all his major battles. Except in Superman II, where he flies away in consternation and later smugly crushes bones and throws fools to their death.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:18
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Superman "murders thousands of people and then kills Zod" in Man of Steel which people crucify the movie over all the time but no one bats an eye at Lois being stone cold in Superman II. Guess it's okay since they were the bad guys. Wait a minute.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:20
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Superman didn't kill anyone in Mos. He reacted to the ones doing the killing and did his best to mitigate it. Nobody's blaming Oskar Schindler for all the people who died that he didn't sneak out of Germany and save.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:24
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Grendels Dad posted:Except in Superman II, where he flies away in consternation and later smugly crushes bones and throws fools to their death. I'm talking about specifically Man of Steel, which was derided as lacking consequences, but has Superman losing his cool repeatedly, which was used as an example of consequences being felt in Superman: The Movie. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 20:24
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Drifter posted:Superman didn't kill anyone in Mos. He reacted to the ones doing the killing and did his best to mitigate it. well, except Oskar Schindler
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Aug 18, 2015 20:25
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'm talking about specifically Man of Steel. Oh, my bad. I wasn't trying to take away from your point, which I agree with. I just like to point to Superman II whenever those kinds of complaints if MoS come up.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:28
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Drifter posted:The loss in a Superman movie is all the people who are not invulnerable. In MoS, Superman won, but he wasn't untouched, as the bodies and buildings clearly showed. He only truley feels loss when he kills Zod. Yeah he is pissed before that but with the death of Zod Krypon is gone. Then he become Superman as we know him, he realised he will do anything to save earth. Then roll credits. Like I said I like MOS. But next movie looks more of a challenge. If they do another Fantastic Four movie they need to work on the team, they are supposed to be virtually family. Give the something to do properly as such and make it light and fun. The more I think about doing it like the Incredibles the more I think it's a great idea. Make it animated and support whoever directs it. Make it cause you want to make a good movie not just so Marvel can't get the rights back. Of course fox are to stupid to do that.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:30
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