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i81icu812 posted:Trapped on planes for over 20 hours, I watched Season 4 and 5. It is depressing how badly they screwed up scenes that could have been well done. Blackwater was bad, but the North was even worse. Stannis's 'army' of a few dozen horsemen running into a forest somehow defeats Mance's 100,000 man army, which is actually about 40 guys in a camp. Stannis outside of Winterfell was even worse. The idiots who thought identical wildling fur uniforms looked good should all be shot. (Likewise the colorcoded Mereen uniforms.) The 'Mance attacks the Wall' episode looked passable even if it was utterly nonsensical on a tactical level. I guess Hardhome was decent? Mance didn't have an army of 100,000 men. He had 100,000 people, and about 3 quarters of them were non combatants. The gathering he was bringing to the wall was basically the entire wildling civilization, if it can be called that. Of the number that were actually part of the "army", very few were actually skilled or experienced fighters and most of those were poorly equipped and mostly excelled at fighting in small numbers and had little to no experience fighting in huge numbers because that just doesn't happen north of the wall. So, when Stannis showed up out of nowhere and charged into their lines (they probably didn't even have lines formed, as they were taken completely unaware) with a couple thousand mounted, armed, armored, well trained and seasoned knights, yeah, they got their poo poo wrecked and were forced to surrender.
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Aug 20, 2015 19:50
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Fhate posted:Mance didn't have an army of 100,000 men. He had 100,000 people, and about 3 quarters of them were non combatants. The gathering he was bringing to the wall was basically the entire wildling civilization, if it can be called that. Of the number that were actually part of the "army", very few were actually skilled or experienced fighters and most of those were poorly equipped and mostly excelled at fighting in small numbers and had little to no experience fighting in huge numbers because that just doesn't happen north of the wall. So, when Stannis showed up out of nowhere and charged into their lines with a couple thousand mounted, armed, armored, well trained and seasoned knights, yeah, they got their poo poo wrecked and were forced to surrender. Ok but his point was the tv showed 20 people in furs and 10 people on horses to display the sense of scale of the numbers you just said. Like how Dany's khalasar was twelve single file horses, and tyrion got bilbo baggensed, knocked out and then told they won the fight later instead of showing the battle season 1. His point was the show has a huge budget but it doesn't go into any sense of scale and all the set pieces are really small and wet fart disappointing.
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Aug 20, 2015 19:53
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Krinkle posted:
It kinda reminds me of the Elder Scrolls lore where the Aedra were the guys that gave up their powers in order to create the world and people worship them while the Daedra were the ones that didn't and still actively gently caress with the world and their followers are basically devil worshippers.
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Aug 20, 2015 19:55
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Krinkle posted:Ok but his point was the tv showed 20 people in furs and 10 people on horses to display the sense of scale of the numbers you just said. Like how Dany's khalasar was twelve single file horses, and tyrion got bilbo baggensed, knocked out and then told they won the fight later instead of showing the battle season 1. Yeah I'll agree with that. Especially the Bilbo Bagginsing of Tyrion. I did like the Blackwater, though, even if it was absolutely puny compared to what was described in the book.
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Aug 20, 2015 20:11
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Even with GoT's budget they can't afford to do Helm's Deep-style battle CGI and even doing live-action stuff like Braveheart would probably be pushing it. The big problem is that when they do finally try to show some scale it's short stuff like the battle of Winterfell.Crazy Joe Wilson posted:I guess the Blackfyre angle is much more obvious in his works if you get a chance to read all of his ASOIAF, including the Dunk and Eggs stuff. But since most of those books were pretty unavailable until recently, that was hard to do. Thought: You seem to have forgotten or ignored the entirety of the North and the Old Gods. The belief there is pretty drat strong, especially among the clans. They aren't crusader or conservative evangelicals but their religion is still pretty heavily a part of their lives.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:51
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They also seem to be the ones with Gods who have been active or people who are God-touched - wargs and so on. What have the Seven ever done for us?
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Aug 20, 2015 22:25
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I'm pretty sure The Seven, Old Gods, Rhallor, The Lord of Death, etc. are all gonna be revealed to be like the same one or two gods. If it's revealed at all.
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Aug 20, 2015 22:33
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm pretty sure The Seven, Old Gods, Rhallor, The Lord of Death, etc. are all gonna be revealed to be like the same one or two gods. the seven were explicitly made up from whole cloth they don't gift their believers with anything but puritanical smugness
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Aug 20, 2015 22:35
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rejutka posted:What have the Seven ever done for us? ...Brought peace?
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Aug 20, 2015 22:53
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syscall girl posted:the seven were explicitly made up from whole cloth I'm not surprised but I can't remember this. Did aegon just say "gently caress your dumb tree religion, here's some makework bullshit if you have to believe in something"? Or the andals who came over earlier? I forget the ancient history.
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Aug 20, 2015 23:19
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm pretty sure The Seven, Old Gods, Rhallor, The Lord of Death, etc. are all gonna be revealed to be like the same one or two gods. If it's revealed at all. Don't the Faceless Men state as such? That all gods are just facets of the Many-faced God? Or maybe they're just referring to the death-related deities of each pantheon, I don't remember.
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Aug 20, 2015 23:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:...Brought peace? gently caress OFF!
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Aug 20, 2015 23:30
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Krinkle posted:I'm not surprised but I can't remember this. Did aegon just say "gently caress your dumb tree religion, here's some makework bullshit if you have to believe in something"? I forget a lot too but it's pretty clear it's a replacement for the old gods like Christianity trampling all the pagans of Europe But seven times as much, unless you count the trinity and Mary and all the saints in which case it's actually less deities Damnit Martin!
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Aug 20, 2015 23:51
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Krinkle posted:I'm not surprised but I can't remember this. Did aegon just say "gently caress your dumb tree religion, here's some makework bullshit if you have to believe in something"? First there was the First Men (obv), who warred with the Children of the Forest but eventually took their Gods as their own. Then the Andals came over a few thousand years later, they came from SW Essos. They brought the Seven over and chopped down most of the Weirwoods south of the Neck. Then Nymeria and her gang of people got pushed off their land by the Valyrians and sailed over, intermixing with the Dornishmen. Then Valyria established an outpost on Dragonstone, and the Targ family had residence there, but they worshipped the Valyrian Gods. Then the Doom happened, and then 100 years later Aegon swept through and conquered, but converted to the Seven to make the rule more palatable.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:15
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We will find that the Stranger is the true god of the lot and it will have something to do with the other gods in a connected way. I suspect that the old gods are going to be different, though.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:11
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The old gods are just the spirits of ancient greenseers and wargs that remain in the WeirNet.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:29
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syscall girl posted:I forget a lot too but it's pretty clear it's a replacement for the old gods like Christianity trampling all the pagans of Europe Fewer.
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Aug 21, 2015 04:13
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Krinkle posted:Ok but his point was the tv showed 20 people in furs and 10 people on horses to display the sense of scale of the numbers you just said. Like how Dany's khalasar was twelve single file horses, and tyrion got bilbo baggensed, knocked out and then told they won the fight later instead of showing the battle season 1. Yeah. That. Most disappointingly there is no actual fight scene for that 'battle'. 5 horsemen run into a forest. Cut to 5 guys in fur in a tent. 5 more horsemen run into a forest. Cut to 20 guys in fur running out of tents. Cut to guy on horseback running down guy in fur. Cut to Mance: 'Stand down'. Cut to smug Stannis. Scene!
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Aug 21, 2015 05:18
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IRQ posted:Looks like they're doing some practical effects work for Dany's arc in season 6: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/20/world/hurricane-danny/index.html Who really cares? Anyone in TYOOL 2015 who still bitches about CGI--i.e: bad CGI that they noticed---in a mass media production vs. practical effects is likely a know-nothing child. An effect only needs to be "good enough" to not disrupt the story and how they choose to achieve that effect isn't important. The Little Kielbasa posted:Every battle scene in the show looks like Monty Python, that's just a consequence of having a TV budget. The best parts of Blackwater were the Cersei scenes inside. Vikings seems to do ok with what it has. Then again that's probably an unfair comparison as their locations/numbers are designed from the bottom up to be much smaller and TV-appropriate. Evil Fluffy posted:Even with GoT's budget they can't afford to do Helm's Deep-style battle CGI and even doing live-action stuff like Braveheart would probably be pushing it. The big problem is that when they do finally try to show some scale it's short stuff like the battle of Winterfell. The point isn't that anyone feels like they could do Braveheart, it's that they could do a lot better than they've done especially given how the same network can make poo poo like The Pacific and Band of Brothers land with the proper sense of grandiosity with less money. Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:We will find that the Stranger is the true god of the lot and it will have something to do with the other gods in a connected way. I suspect that the old gods are going to be different, though. I don't know. The Seven seem to be some of the only gods we see with no actual power in the world and are clearly derived from GRRM's Jungian/Campbellian understanding of archetype, which is odd as they're easily the best common god mythos in the story while R'hollor seems to be one of the most powerful and is nothing more than "Fire Yahweh."
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Aug 21, 2015 07:30
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The cult of Rh'llor had little to do with yhwh or Judaism, it's pretty clearly modeled after Zoroastrianism.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:13
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Fair enough, my point still stands.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:21
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The old gods are just the spirits of ancient greenseers and wargs that remain in the WeirNet. Yeah, they're real gods just not the way we usually think of gods as being immaterial and immortal. They're more like the Norse gods and Bloodraven was clearly based on Odin.
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Aug 21, 2015 10:47
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mind the walrus posted:Fair enough, my point still stands. There's no point to any of this you fool.
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Aug 21, 2015 12:56
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emanresu tnuocca posted:
!!! White Weir Woods WWW  
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Aug 21, 2015 13:41
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The cult of Rh'llor had little to do with yhwh or Judaism, it's pretty clearly modeled after Zoroastrianism. I always got a R'hllorism = Islam vibe, at least in terms of its rapid spread.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:53
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A Time To Chill posted:I always got a R'hllorism = Islam vibe, at least in terms of its rapid spread. That would only work if there was a vaguely similar pre-existing religion that R'hllorism then improved.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:08
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Grendels Dad posted:That would only work if there was a vaguely similar pre-existing religion that R'hllorism then improved. From a Western perspective yeah but during Islam's initial spread its main competition were pagans/polytheists, not Christians & Jews.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:18
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R'hlorrism isn't a particularly new religion, and its relationship with the faith of the seven is nothing like the relationship between Islam and Christianity/Judaism, neither does R'hlorism spread particularly quickly (it existed forever in the east and spreads very slowly westward, there's a red temple in Oldtown that's been there for a while and is only visited by sailors from essos) or through conquest (initially) etc. It really has almost no similarities to Islam.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:25
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R'hlorrism is obviously Zoroastrianism. What with the emphasis on fires and a strictly dualistic world view with a good god and an evil god. The Faith of the Seven is just fantasy Catholicism and the sparrows are fantasy Lutherans in that they are a religious movement that rises up during times of turmoil against a extremely corrupt and decadent central church. The main difference is that in Westeros Martin Luther becomes the pope. I fully expect that if Winds of Winter ever comes out the High Sparrow will have a number of rants about fantasy Jews. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 19:29
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computer parts posted:From a Western perspective yeah but during Islam's initial spread its main competition were pagans/polytheists, not Christians & Jews. I am partly aware of that, though know way too little about Islam in general. I just wanted to drop a sick burn on Christianity.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:35
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Arbite posted:There's no point to any of this you fool. I would trust a man with a pony avatar to know a thing or two about points. Grendels Dad posted:That would only work if there was a vaguely similar pre-existing religion that R'hllorism then improved. Being fair we don't know that there wasn't, do we? FreudianSlippers posted:R'hlorrism is obviously Zoroastrianism. What with the emphasis on fires and a strictly dualistic world view with a good god and an evil god. Yeah, dude is right here.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:40
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What about the Drowned God?
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Aug 21, 2015 21:49
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Tezcatlipoca posted:What about the Drowned God? Next to R'hllor and the Great Other the Drowned God is the third big player in the Game of Gods (GoG). R'hllor has fire zombies, the Great Other has ice zombies, DG has drowned zombies. Damphair's CPR doesn't actually work, him and his followers are all dead.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:54
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sounds like they're all facets of the many-faced god
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Aug 22, 2015 02:25
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Have we actually seen any demonstration of the drowned gods power? People always say the seven are the only gods without any overt effect on the world in the books but I don't remember aeron or vic seeing anything that convinced me the drowned God might be real
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Aug 22, 2015 05:01
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MC Eating Disorder posted:Have we actually seen any demonstration of the drowned gods power? People always say the seven are the only gods without any overt effect on the world in the books but I don't remember aeron or vic seeing anything that convinced me the drowned God might be real The only concrete thing is that the Ironborn baptism ritual usually kills some people, but Damphair (who's incredibly devout) has never lost a guy.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:06
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Pretty much anyone the drowned god spits back up changes personality 100%, except Davos who didn't really drown he just held his breath a real long time. Patchface has a kind of prophecy, too.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:07
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computer parts posted:The only concrete thing is that the Ironborn baptism ritual usually kills some people, but Damphair (who's incredibly devout) has never lost a guy. Maybe he just has really good chest compression technique.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:12
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Maybe he just has really good chest compression technique. He makes his men do that stupid "move his arms" idea of cpr from the goddamn 40s though.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:15
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MC Eating Disorder posted:Have we actually seen any demonstration of the drowned gods power? People always say the seven are the only gods without any overt effect on the world in the books but I don't remember aeron or vic seeing anything that convinced me the drowned God might be real. If you think the shrouded lord is powered by the drowned god, which certainly makes sense thematically, then there's the ship teleportation he goes with Tyrion and all the mental shenanigans related to that, plus the ability to pick who gets greyscale, if stuff that Gurm has said at book signings holds true. Otherwise it's just Patchface.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:58
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